Camry named best-selling car again

[sciguy_0504]

Jeannine Anderson's Honda Accord served her well for 13 years before she decided to give it to her son-in-law. But when the self-described Honda fan was hunting a new car, she decided to consider the Toyota Camry, a car her late husband had wanted and one whose stellar reputation she knew from reading Consumer Reports.

After test drives with the Accord and the Camry, Anderson, 71, got her first Toyota - a gray V-6 she says gets 36 miles per gallon.

"I just absolutely love it," Anderson, of Bancroft, said Thursday. "It's quiet, dependable."

Drivers like Anderson have helped make the Camry a perennial top seller, with 2005 figures showing it was the best-selling car in the United States for the fourth year in a row, and eight of the last nine years. It again topped the Accord and other mid-size competitors such as the Chevrolet Impala.

And with a hybrid Camry due out this year and a fully redesigned 2007 Camry set to be unveiled Monday at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit, the sedan likely will set the bar high for its competitors.

"Camry is a benchmark," said Jim Sanfilippo, a senior industry analyst with Bloomfield Hills-based Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc. "The new Camry is going to be another Toyota benchmark. It is going to be a little more expressive in its styling ... it will be more powerful."

Toyota hasn't released details about the new Camry, but Jim Press, president and chief operating officer of Toyota Motor Sales USA Inc., said it will offer better style, technology and drivability. And it will build on the reputation the nameplate has established in previous incarnations.

"It's a car that really hits the needs of most customers," Press said during a conference call Wednesday about the company's latest U.S. sales performance. "It's a car that will get you from here to there without any hassle. It's a good reflection of our brand, because it's about customer satisfaction."

Press said he expects the company this year to sell about the nearly 432,000 Camrys it sold in 2005, but may lose some sales as it switches from offering the old model. He said Toyota strives to keep Camry's style timeless while keeping in mind the goal of a well-balanced car that satisfies drivers' needs.

The Camry's nearly perfect streak atop the car market stretches back to 1997, when it toppled Ford Motor Co.'s Taurus as America's best-selling car. It was the first time the Japanese automaker held that spot.

Like many of its counterparts, the Camry has evolved from its boxy and utilitarian beginnings to a more stylish exterior and refined interior. But reliability, affordability, good gas mileage and improved safety, dealerships say, have been among the key factors in its continued popularity.

Honda Motor Co., which has the No. 2 and No. 3 selling cars in the United States in the compact Civic and mid-size Accord, respectively, is bringing a slightly redesigned Accord to the market for 2006. And it recognizes the appeal of the Camry and Accord to drivers young and old alike.

Sanfilippo said the Camry has been able to build a reputation for quality over the years, and appeals to drivers who demand such reliability. And he said the car represents a challenge to the rest of the auto industry, which will roll out some of its best prospects at the Detroit show.

"Somebody is going to have to do better than the Camry to get people away from the Camry," he said.

http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/ap/2006/0.../ap2431845.html

[Flybrian]

Camry hasn't been a true benchmark since 1998 when that generation of Accord debuted. The '97 model was stagnant and the '02 redesign was a step backwards, bringing awkward styling with a completely misaligned interior design, and mediocrity. Every midsize car of the past half dozen years has excelled beyond the Camry in so many meaningful ways, except for the Stratus/Cirrus and Optima/old Sonata. I can see why the pre-97 Camry was so well-respected. Damnit, it was a great car in looks and everything. I don't see how anyone in their right mind can really believe the 2002-06 is anything but merely average.

[Sixty8panther]

News Flash!!! O.J. pronounced innoccent by jury! :rolleyes:

[regfootball]

Lindsay Lohan is a virgin who's never had a drink before....!!!!

[siegen]

her first Toyota - a gray V-6

Apparently Honda's Alabaster Silver Metallic wasn't dull enough, so she had to switch to the Toyota, which holds the industry benchmark in most boring color lineup, something they're very proud of. Edited January 7, 2006 by siegen

[CARBIZ]

Y'know, considering the Camry is the ONLY mid-size car Toyota has to foist upon the unsuspecting public, 400k sales isn't so sh*t hot. Just to show how fragmented the market is now, 30 years ago, vehicles like the Torino and Malibu would routinely sell a half million units - and they were one of many mid-sizers sold by Ford and GM, respectively. Sigh. But it does give Toyota bragging rights! On slightly off-topic note, the other day the rag, Toronto Star lamented the fact that the Civic almost unseated the F-150 as the top selling vehicle in Canada for 2005. I could almost see the tears falling as the writer typed the story. Again, all Honda has is the Civic. Even in its last full year, 2004, the J-bodies outsold the Civic and they were on a 10 year old platform!

[SingleStylish]

Y'know, considering the Camry is the ONLY mid-size car Toyota has to foist upon the unsuspecting public, 400k sales isn't so sh*t hot. 
  Just to show how fragmented the market is now, 30 years ago, vehicles like the Torino and Malibu would routinely sell a half million units - and they were one of many mid-sizers sold by Ford and GM, respectively.
  Sigh.
  But it does give Toyota bragging rights!

  On slightly off-topic note, the other day the rag, Toronto Star lamented the fact that the Civic almost unseated the F-150 as the top selling vehicle in Canada for 2005.  I could almost see the tears falling as the writer typed the story.
  Again, all Honda has is the Civic. Even in its last full year, 2004, the J-bodies outsold the Civic and they were on a 10 year old platform!

[post="69117"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Honestly, how could you intelligently call 369,293 sales a year from the Accord failure? By that rod, the Malibu/G6 combined are nothing short of a shit pile. For that matter in a very limited market of compact cars (expensive ones at that) the Civic demands a premium and gets it 308,415 times a year. Honda is a very niche company and seems to be just fine with charging a premium for its products and delivering high quality and desirabilty to an awful lot of people.

BTW Combined sales of the Malibu/Maxx/G6/9-3 are:

Malibu: 203,503
G6: 124,844
9-3: 24,108

TOTAL: 352,455 < 369,293

To be fair Accord/TSX/TL:

Accord: 369,293
TSX: 34,856
TL: 78,218

TOTAL: 482,367 > 369,293 Accord > 352,455 Malibu/Maxx/G6 Coupe/Sedan/9-3 Coupe/Sedan

Looks like you might be wrong about Accord and its derivatives.

For anyone arguing that the refreshed W-Body's compete more directly:

LaCrosse: 92,669
Impala: 246,481
Monte: 33,562
Bonneville: 10,037
Grand Prix: 122,398

TOTAL: 505,147 > 482,367 Accord/TSX/TL > 369,293 Accord > 352,455 Malibu/Maxx/G6 Coupe/Sedan/9-3 Coupe/Sedan

While one could say GM wins the race if you consider the larger cars, look what kind of product development nightmare and waste that is. And GM really doesn't sell these cars at a premium and thus doesn't make as much profit. Inherently that list is the problem with GM period. Don't call Honda a looser...

Toyota Camry/Solara: 431,703
Lexus ES: 87,208 (Oddly Toyota does not report ES sales directly... so this is an estimate based on overall sales subtracting IS/GS/LS sales)

TOTAL: 518,911 > 505,147 W-Body... only three name plates each going for premiums.

[daves87rs]

  On slightly off-topic note, the other day the rag, Toronto Star lamented the fact that the Civic almost unseated the F-150 as the top selling vehicle in Canada for 2005.  I could almost see the tears falling as the writer typed the story.
  Again, all Honda has is the Civic. Even in its last full year, 2004, the J-bodies outsold the Civic and they were on a 10 year old platform!

[post="69117"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The J-bodys were also a heck of a lot cheaper too....


That said, Iwould much have a more interesting car than the Camry. Even
the new Accord looks better....

[CARBIZ]

Singlestyle, if you're gonna drag the Acura and Lexus numbers into this, then you may as well add the 250k Impala sales and the 50k Classic sales, if you want to get really stupid. I never even mentioned the Accord - you did. SHEESH. Some import lovers are a little touchy!!

[sciguy_0504]

He did mention Impala sales and he should have mentioned Classic. But then the other question is how many of these cars went to fleets instead of real buyers?

[Satty]

The current gen was a step backwards, its pretty awkward and disjointed. And there is no way her Camry, with a V6 gets 36mpg unless she drives nothing but highways, 75% of the time downhill with the car in neutral.

[Flybrian]

For anyone arguing that the refreshed W-Body's compete more directly:

LaCrosse:  92,669
Impala:  246,481
Monte:  33,562
Bonneville:  10,037
Grand Prix:  122,398

[post="69133"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Bonneville is not and has never, ever been a W-body car. H-bod from 1992-1999 and G-bod from 2000-05.

[Satty]

And shouldn't left-over Regal/Century sales be lumped in with the w-body sales too? I'm sure there weren't many, but if you're going to do the comparison, add 'em all.

[Paolino]

But 36mpg? Why do I think she didn't do the math correctly on that one?

[Snate]

He did mention Impala sales and he should have mentioned Classic.  But then the other question is how many of these cars went to fleets instead of real buyers?

[post="69163"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

How many Camrys went to fleet too?

[mustang84]

How many Camrys went to fleet too?

[post="69179"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The only reason the Camry is the best-selling car is because quite a few go to fleets. In strictly retail sales, the Honda Accord is America's best selling car.

Actually, I can back it up somewhat. Going by that mid-year fleet sales page for 2005, the Honda Accord only had 3375 fleet sales (2.1%) while the Toyota Camry had 24,524 (14%). Honda Accord's retail sales were 160,522, while the Toyota Camry's were 150,635. So while Toyota ended up with 12,000 more sales in the end, it was only because they fleet out more Camrys. You can bet that Toyota doesn't want to lose the title of best-selling car in America for the Camry, which is why they probably have so many of them in fleets.

[Cory Wolfe]

He did mention Impala sales and he should have mentioned Classic.

[post="69163"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

And shouldn't left-over Regal/Century sales be lumped in with the w-body sales too?

[post="69173"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Not to mention N-body Grand Am coupes, too.... :D

The only reason the Camry is the best-selling car is because quite a few go to fleets.  In strictly retail sales, the Honda Accord is America's best selling car.

Actually, I can back it up somewhat.  Going by that mid-year fleet sales page for 2005, the Honda Accord only had 3375 fleet sales (2.1%) while the Toyota Camry had 24,524 (14%).  Honda Accord's retail sales were 160,522, while the Toyota Camry's were 150,635.  So while Toyota ended up with 12,000 more sales in the end, it was only because they fleet out more Camrys.  You can bet that Toyota doesn't want to lose the title of best-selling car in America for the Camry, which is why they probably have so many of them in fleets.

[post="69216"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Exactly. It's the only reason the Malibu outsells the G6 too...

[CARBIZ]

Fleet sales get such a bad rap in the market place. I concede that they wreak havoc with resale values, but sometimes fleet sales can lead to a sale. I sold an Uplander to a couple last week BECAUSE they rented one for two weeks when they were in B.C. last year. They loved it and were quite comfortable in it. The Sienna didn't get the same fair shake because it wasn't as available. I understand that GM wants to back off fleet sales to shore up its resale values, but they have their advantages, too. This thread seems to have been hijacked with the argument over whether a fleet sale is a true sale, but where would the market be without them? Since GM's cars are equal to or better than their competitors, what better way to get the message out than to have them rented first to potential buyers?

[regfootball]

Fleet sales get such a bad rap in the market place.  I concede that they wreak havoc with resale values, but sometimes fleet sales can lead to a sale. 
  I sold an Uplander to a couple last week BECAUSE they rented one for two weeks when they were in B.C. last year.  They loved it and were quite comfortable in it.  The Sienna didn't get the same fair shake because it wasn't as available.
  I understand that GM wants to back off fleet sales to shore up its resale values, but they have their advantages, too.
  This thread seems to have been hijacked with the argument over whether a fleet sale is a true sale, but where would the market be without them?  Since GM's cars are equal to or better than their competitors, what better way to get the message out than to have them rented first to potential buyers?

[post="69258"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

carbiz, i agree with your take. the whole key is the product needs to be good to impress the renter and to make them love the car.

i bought two diamantes because of the rental we had on a vacation for a week. the resale dived because the car was never updated or kept pace with the market. GM does that also, theri resale has more to do with not updating the product. Edited January 7, 2006 by regfootball

[haypops]

Fleet sales get such a bad rap in the market place.  where would the market be without them?  Since GM's cars are equal to or better than their competitors, w

[post="69258"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Where would the market be? ... heck where would the end users be without them!

[sciguy_0504]

How many Camrys went to fleet too?

[post="69179"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I meant every car mentioned thus far in the thread (not just GM), how many of them go to fleets?

[Guest gmrebirth]

How many Camrys went to fleet too?

[post="69179"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

About 14%, which is certainly less than the perctentage of Impalas and Malibus going to fleet sales.

[turbo200]

Malibu's percentage is 50%. Don't have an exact figure for the Impala, but I remember it being somewhere around the 20-30% mark.

[Northstar]

That site Mustang84 posted had all the models for fleet. The Accord only had like 4% fleet, and had more retail sales than the Camry through 6 months of the year (though by only a few thousand units).

[razoredge]

shucks, I got right on this right away and then came back and see ya'll beat me to it :(

First I was gonna say "36 mpg ! " :blink: "I gotta get me one of dem dar toyomongos" :lol: This is the kind of crap those of us that talk about the media are referring to, not that they are reporting but how they spin it, this will go down as gospel in the eyes of the public now "Toyomongo gets 36 mpg" and "GM's typically suck but this car is OK"

Anyhow yes indeed 432,000 is very very impressive for one model, and there is probably a Lexus that could go in there ? but GM is a bit different and did sell 502,216 ancient W bodies, the only one I may have missed is a Saab but I dont follow them and have only heard mention here on C&G that somehow they were similar to Impala ? If Saab has a W it is not in the 502,000, Regal/Century/Monty were included as well as the obvious Lacrosse, Impala, GrandPrix.

Not trying to take anything from Camry just adding some perspective. I certainly like GM's way better, I would find the world lacking some color if all we had was 502,000 Impalas........which would never happen....GM limb choppin beancounters so dont get any more bright ideas ! :rolleyes:

[Guest gmrebirth]

shucks, I got right on this right away and then came back and see ya'll beat me to it  :(

First I was gonna say "36 mpg ! "  :blink:  "I gotta get me one of dem dar toyomongos"  :lol:  This is the kind of crap those of us that talk about the media are referring to, not that they are reporting but how they spin it, this will go down as gospel in the eyes of the public now "Toyomongo gets 36 mpg" and "GM's typically suck but this car is OK"

Anyhow yes indeed 432,000 is very very impressive for one model, and there is probably a Lexus that could go in there ? but GM is a bit different and did sell 502,216 ancient W bodies, the only one I may have missed is a Saab but I dont follow them and have only heard mention here on C&G that somehow they were similar to Impala ? If Saab has a W it is not in the 502,000, Regal/Century/Monty were included as well as the obvious Lacrosse, Impala, GrandPrix.

Not trying to take anything from Camry just adding some perspective. I certainly like GM's way better, I would find the world lacking some color if all we had was 502,000 Impalas........which would never happen....GM limb choppin beancounters so dont get any more bright ideas !  :rolleyes:

[post="69561"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

That's irrelevant. You're comparing a whole group of cars, the W-bodies to *one* car, the Camry.

I could tally the total sales of all vehicles under the current Camry platform, and they would definitely outnumber W-body sales. So, what's your point?

[mustang84]

Malibu's percentage is 50%. Don't have an exact figure for the Impala, but I remember it being somewhere around the 20-30% mark.

[post="69548"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Try 62%.

Here's the link again for anyone interested. Click on mid-year new vehicle fleet registrations under general statistics at the top of the page to open the PDF with all the data.

[VenSeattle]

Lexus ES:  87,208  (Oddly Toyota does not report ES sales directly... so this is an estimate based on overall sales subtracting IS/GS/LS sales)

[post="69133"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

ES330 2005 sales were actually 67,577.

Toyota Press Release for 2005 sales

[SingleStylish]

Singlestyle, if you're gonna drag the Acura and Lexus numbers into this, then you may as well add the 250k Impala sales and the 50k Classic sales, if you want to get really stupid.

  I never even mentioned the Accord - you did.    SHEESH.

  Some import lovers are a little touchy!!

For the record... I am not an "import lover!" I have been here longer than you have and have supported GM up to my last car purchase. You have another thing comin' if you think I would buy import over GM if GM offered a truly competitive vehicle in the same segment.

Furthermore, my point was that GM takes at least 3 times the development and rollout dollars to gain nearly the same sales as one nameplate.

Fly, sorry about the Bonnerville. My mistake however it didn't change the answer.

And as far as fleet sales go... whole different subject!!!

PS For all those complaining about bringing in the luxury cars, the point was to include all vehicles built on very similar platforms to tally how many vehicles were sold in that segment by a manufacturer. AND DON'T EVER CALL ME STUPID!

[nyscene911]

That's irrelevant. You're comparing a whole group of cars, the W-bodies to *one* car, the Camry.

I could tally the total sales of all vehicles under the current Camry platform, and they would definitely outnumber W-body sales. So, what's your point?

But Toyota DOES do just that. They combine Camry and Solara sales, as well as combining sales of the Corrola and Matrix.

[sciguy_0504]

But Toyota DOES do just that.  They combine Camry and Solara sales, as well as combining sales of the Corrola and Matrix.

The Camry Solara is the convertible model of the Camry, like the Sebring Convertible is the convertible model of the Sebring. The Corolla and Matrix sales should not be combined, however.

[nyscene911]

The Camry Solara is the convertible model of the Camry, like the Sebring Convertible is the convertible model of the Sebring.  The Corolla and Matrix sales should not be combined, however.

I guess you could make a case for the Camry. I think that GM should combine Impala and Monte sales in the same way then, since one is basically a 2-door version of the other. Its not that they're really cheating, its that they're playing the numbers to make themselves look better.

[haypops]

The Camry Solara is the convertible model of the Camry, like the Sebring Convertible is the convertible model of the Sebring.  The Corolla and Matrix sales should not be combined, however.

I don't see how the Solara (coupe not just convertabile) are any less distanced from the Camry than are the Corolla from the Matrix and Vibe. On the other hand, perhaps we are putting too much emphasis on these sales results much like a 300 baseball hitter who never produces when it counts vs a 250 hitter who frequently sacrafises properly and delivers the long fly ball with a man on third.

[Guest gmrebirth]

But Toyota DOES do just that.  They combine Camry and Solara sales, as well as combining sales of the Corrola and Matrix.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's not what I meant. If I start counting Highlander sales, along with Lexus RX and Lexus ES sales together with the Camry's sales, then they will guaranteed be much higher than combined W body sales. I don't even know why he brought up this in the first place.

[SingleStylish]

That's not what I meant. If I start counting Highlander sales, along with Lexus RX and Lexus ES sales together with the Camry's sales, then they will guaranteed be much higher than combined W body sales. I don't even know why he brought up this in the first place.

To show that GM uses too TOO many nameplates to produce an almost dismally close number of vehicles compared to a company that sells almost the entire amount with only ONE... ONE nameplate. This isn't the 70's Pontia, Chevy, and Buick can't all sell 500k of one nameplate off the same chasis for EACH division.

My point is that 400k-300k for one nameplate is nothing to call a failure. It is darn hard to do that these days. Again... GM sells 10 nameplates to get close to what Toyota sells with 3. Period.

[Guest gmrebirth]

To show that GM uses too TOO many nameplates to produce an almost dismally close number of vehicles compared to a company that sells almost the entire amount with only ONE... ONE nameplate.  This isn't the 70's Pontia, Chevy, and Buick can't all sell 500k of one nameplate off the same chasis for EACH division.

My point is that 400k-300k for one nameplate is nothing to call a failure.  It is darn hard to do that these days.  Again... GM sells 10 nameplates to get close to what Toyota sells with 3.  Period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, I agree.

I was actually referring to why razoredge brought up the W bodies, not you.

[MyerShift]

The current gen was a step backwards, its pretty awkward and disjointed.  And there is no way her Camry, with a V6 gets 36mpg unless she drives nothing but highways, 75% of the time downhill with the car in neutral.

Haha! Exactly. I only get 28-31 mpg at freeway speeds (less with judicious throttle usage) having a 2.0L four cylinder under the hood, and a four speed bump-shift automatic transferring power.

[Sixty8panther]

I bet they sell three or more dispposable cameras for every one decent Nikon opr Minolta SLR but that does not make the $6.99 throwaway BETTER.

Just had to chime in again.