What is your anti drug?

[sciguy_0504]

Neither of the two drugs I mentioned above have harmed nearly as many people as alcohol and tobacco (through poisoning or through endangerment of the public), not even when you adjust for the number of users of each substance.

[post="69729"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Those drugs may not have personally harmed as many people as alcohol and tobacco but the illegal drug market, as a whole, has harmed many more, something that will not go away with legalizing certain drugs.

[chris]

Those drugs may not have personally harmed as many people as alcohol and tobacco but the illegal drug market, as a whole, has harmed many more, something that will not go away with legalizing certain drugs.

[post="69780"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Legalizing "certain" drugs? The vast majority (if not all) should be legalized and regulated. Granted, it won't unhurt the people that have been, but it will reduce or eliminate the role of organized crime in the future.

[razoredge]

That idea is certainly not without merit but your just sending a wrong signal if you legalize mind altering substances. Alcohol has been legal and is so highly acceptably abused, we cant have that attitude expanded upon, we cant make it easy.

[chris]

That idea is certainly not without merit but your just sending a wrong signal if you legalize mind altering substances. Alcohol has been legal and is so highly acceptably abused, we cant have that attitude expanded upon, we cant make it easy.

[post="69915"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It's not any harder, it's just more dangerous. "Sending signals" is what education is for, not legislation. Personally I do not accept alcohol abuse. It has personally killed people that I knew and loved. Heroin has done the same. Legality has no bearing on how these people died.

If you must "send signals" and force your moral code onto others with our nation's legal system, at least decriminalize drug possession and intoxication itself. Someone who is charged with no other crime than possessing drugs or being high without endangering others should be fined, or at best held overnight (as in the drunk tank for public intoxication), rather than thrown in prison. Each imprisoned, non-violent drug offender that is released under this provision will make more room for a violent child molester or rapist, who, as you know, might otherwise be released into our neighborhoods.

[TurboRush]

As far as pot being a "gateway" drug, I have to agree.  I've had friends move on to other drugs after simply becoming bored with marijuana.  After a while, it takes more to get the 'same' high, and this is when things become dangerous.  In the end, much of it is about moderation.  Abstinence is obviously the best way to remain safe, but those who choose otherwise are making a decision that shouldn't necessarily be looked down upon.

[post="69409"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

As far as marijuana being a gateway drug, I pretymuch agree with the statement above.... It depends in who's hands it falls into. I know allot of ppl who smoke pot and will probably smoke pot for the rest of their lives and some of them are/ will be very succesfull and never touched anything beyond pot. On the other hand, I have seen marijuana fall into someone else's lap who doesn't have his head screwed on tight and hops to the "heavier" drugs after his tolerance for marijuana became too elevated for him to get a satisfiable buzz.

Myself on the other hand, I have smoked pot in moderation since the age of 15 and in the recent years, I smoke it daily. It doesnt affect my life in a negative way, It actualy helps me sleep at night and wind down from my day. I get home from work, sometimes crack open a beer if I have some and sit down in my ofice with some light music and I proceed to light my pipe. Once that is done, I may grab my books and start reading while enjoying my beer and a cigarette and listening to a bit of music.

It is like smoking a cigar for some or having their glass of scotch for others. I don't know if I'll ever stop smoking pot but I can tell you that I most definately will not do anything else mentioned in this thread that falls under the drug category (except maybe Nyquil if I have a cold ;-)

[sciguy_0504]

Legalizing "certain" drugs?  The vast majority (if not all) should be legalized and regulated.  Granted, it won't unhurt the people that have been, but it will reduce or eliminate the role of organized crime in the future.

[post="69900"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Organized crime will form companies to sell the crap, people will be robbing stores and each other to get it, driving on (insert drug here) will have to be policed and punished, crime rates will go up because people are on stuff and, not thinking normally, will decide to do whatever they want, kids would be taking it to school in even greater numbers, workplaces would have to police to make sure their employees aren't on stuff while working, health insurance rates would skyrocket even more due to the damage drugs cause, the list goes on and on.

Legalizing the vast majority of drugs would open a huge can of worms that we'd never be able to close.

[TurboRush]

Organized crime will form companies to sell the crap, people will be robbing stores and each other to get it, driving on (insert drug here) will have to be policed and punished, crime rates will go up because people are on stuff and, not thinking normally, will decide to do whatever they want, kids would be taking it to school in even greater numbers, workplaces would have to police to make sure their employees aren't on stuff while working, health insurance rates would skyrocket even more due to the damage drugs cause, the list goes on and on.

Legalizing the vast majority of drugs would open a huge can of worms that we'd never be able to close.

[post="70047"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No more drugs should be legal than what is already out there. (medicaly speaking) But if you want to talk about legalization or rather the decriminalization of Marijuana, it has been brought up and considered numerous times here in Canada.

I highly doubt that the general public's behavior will change in any noticeable way if they did legalize marijuana and sell it at a local corner store right beside cigarettes and cigars. Same rules would aply to it as it does with every other thing in general. Can't buy unless you are of age (19 if you're in Ontario) and I'm shure they would set rules such as, you can't have more than a certain ammount on you that would be considered personal (for personal use and not to sell to others).

Students smoke cigarettes and do what they are generaly not permitted in high school already such as drink on lunch breaks, smoke a joint between classes, deal other drugs and illegal mater to other fellow students. That stuff is not permited at their age (drinking and cigarettes) and not permitted at all (drugs and the dealings of) but they still do it. Same would aply if marijuana was to be legal under regulated circumstances. People would go about their day and do what they usualy do. Just that they would be able to do it legaly and not have to worry about every car roling around the corner being a cop to bust them down. Edited January 8, 2006 by TurboRush

[Croc]

Funny...tobacco doesn't have all these "organized crime" companies...? Neither does alcohol....please, support your assertions!

[chris]

Organized crime will form companies to sell the crap, people will be robbing stores and each other to get it, driving on (insert drug here) will have to be policed and punished, crime rates will go up because people are on stuff and, not thinking normally, will decide to do whatever they want, kids would be taking it to school in even greater numbers, workplaces would have to police to make sure their employees aren't on stuff while working, health insurance rates would skyrocket even more due to the damage drugs cause, the list goes on and on.

Legalizing the vast majority of drugs would open a huge can of worms that we'd never be able to close.

[post="70047"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Driving on (insert drug here) already is policed. Impaired driving is a serious issue that is already taken care of. If you're pulled over for reckless driving, and you happen to let it get out that you've had a few shots of nyquil or a cold pill, you could and probably will be charged for driving under the influence.

Drug education and parental responsibility will prevent kids from taking drugs to school. Again, any obviously intoxicated kids already are being taken care of. There are age limits for all the legal drugs, why do you think the same wouldn't be true for the ones I think should be? Personally I think there should be a number of restrictions on what I want made legal.

Every day people responsible for public safety arrive at work under the influence or after-effects of alcohol consumption, caffeine, cocaine, amphetamine/methamphetamine, mind-altering SSRI's and MAOI's, and pot, and accomplish their jobs safely. All health problems aside, if they aren't endangering anyone (alcohol within the legal limit, legal drugs prescribed, illegal ones kept in check with moderation), and are of some legal age, there shouldn't be a problem. You seem to be operating under the fallacy that every drug is always bad.

[sciguy_0504]

Really? Acid isn't bad for you? Let's give it to the kiddies! You're very naive. The world isn't as utopian as you want to make believe. European countries have legalized certain drugs and actually help addicts get even more (with tax money!) but do some thorough investigation and you'll see it's not all peaches and cream. Obviously, organized crime and other groups have used drugs to raise funds for their many criminal activities. Your position, from what I get, is to legalize drugs to stop them from doing that. They'll get around it by forming front companies to sell the drugs, funneling the money back to their groups. So now instead of trying to dismantle just organized crime you'll have to dismantle the groups and their front companies. Point is, organized crime, terrorist groups, et al aren't going to sit back and allow you to legalize and regulate their profit source. Impaired driving is a serious issue but it's not being taken care of as well as it should and that's without legalizing drugs. Imagine if the majority of the population can walk right in to the food store and buy a bag of pot. They take it back to their cars, smoke it and drive off. No, they're not endangering anyone. Parental responsibility, ha. Does such a thing even exist anymore? Can you honestly answer that? One look at various statistics (divorce rate, teenage pregnancy, students failing in school, etc.) will give you your honest answer. You're right, there are age limits for legal drugs like alcohol. So why do I see/hear about so many underage kids smoking cigs or getting drunk? Even some parents don't care if their 15-year old kid is throwing down shots. They'll by him the booze themselves! Nowadays, relying on parents to actually control and instill some values in their children is like relying on the lottery for income. Someone mentioned that the pot head rate is so large that it overburdens the police, courts, etc. and so pot should be legalized. If the murder rate shoots up should murder be legalized? How about the rape rate? Hell, why should we waste any time or money enforcing laws, just get rid of them all. Every man for himself! There are reasons why certain things are illegal. If someone has to spell out why drugs should be illegal to you, there's a problem.

[ocnblu]

A person who wants to unwind at home after work with a joint is... a tad different than murder and rape. Hyperbole does not help your case.

[chris]

Hyperbole doesn't help, and neither does putting words in my mouth. I don't think kids should be given acid, I don't think kids should be given pot, and I don't think kids should be given alcohol. I made this point before. They are all "bad" for you in their own ways, and only informed adults should be trusted to make the decision to use these substances. Unlike murder and rape, drug use itself is a victimless crime. Just as with alcohol, it is entirely up to the judgement of the user to endanger the public, legal or not. I don't think any drug should be available at a corner store (beer and cigarettes are a "maybe", but if I had my way they wouldn't be--drugs belong at a pharmacy). Anecdotal lack of parental responsibility is the poorest excuse for drug prohibition that I've ever heard. Holding parents responsible for the education of their children, as well as the consequences of the lack thereof, is the surest way to ensure that this does not become a problem. The status quo is woefully inadequate and we both know it.

[TurboRush]

  Imagine if the majority of the population can walk right in to the food store and buy a bag of pot.  They take it back to their cars, smoke it and drive off.  No, they're not endangering anyone.

[post="70200"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Imagine if the majority of the population can walk right in to the Liquor store and buy a bottle of colt 45. They take it back to their car, drink it and drive off. No, they're not endangering anyone.

See that, your statement can aply to many things. In general, people can walk into any store and buy whatever is for sale and use it illegaly, but in general, people dont. THATS WHAT WE CALL COMMON SENSE.
Use your sentence from above and replace the wording to say "Guns" and "Shoot". Those are also things that ppl have the liberty to do. Do they do it? Some do, some don't. The ones who break the law are dealt with accordingly.

Here's another example;
People cary pocket knives every day and people get held up at corner stores by people with pocket knives. Many people are injured and die due to stabings with knives. Does this mean we should make knives illegal? Should we need a license to buy a knife? What if I have a steak for lunch? will I need a license to eat it too?

C'mon....... there are lots of things in the world wich are left at the liberty of ppl's jugement to do or not do. Same aplies for drugs or marijuana for that matter.... use in moderation (mari-j that is), and dont endanger anyone in the process.

Sciguy, your whole post sounds like it's describing the end of the world......... it's like we are back in 1999 when everyone thought it was the end of the world in year 2000 and all the computers would fail...........LOOK OUT everyone, when year 3000 hits, it will be 10 times worse than year 2000! We're all gona die!!!!!! Edited January 9, 2006 by TurboRush

[razoredge]

your right about many thing sciguy but a bit off in others. thats OK still the right basic attitude though a bit narrow in scope. The parental points were dead on. Parents that live to drink, always have beer or whatever around, friends over drunk on Saturday night, drunk on Sunday usually raise kids that think that is normal fair and grow up to live the same lifestyle. Legalized and regulated mind altering drugs used openly within the household will have the same effect......in fact have.....I know people that raised their kids smoking around them and who knows what else and guess what, 12/13/14 year old kids, major drug heads, problems in school, problems, problems, problems. So Chris you can never really expect anyone to buy into that one except people that believe it is A OK to get all doped up infront of the kids. on the other hand sciguy - its already impossible to hold down much of a job and smoke, random drug testing has destroyed that and in fact has destroyed many peoples lives, not the weed. However an occasional coke user has half a chance of passing the urine test. There is no comparing weed to coke or crack or any of the heavy stuff including alcohol. However an acoholic can get drunk as hell Sat night and all day Sunday beat the wife and children go to work Monday take the random urine test and go on with his dayly life unchecked. (Beating part added for drama) but you get the point or at least should. The points about prisons and over crowding due to petty drug crimes is a good point but around here kids or young folks and even older for that matter that get in trouble the first few times for posession get little trouble, maybe an overnight in county and fines but they are not cloggin up the prison systems and those that do "go down" have asked for it and deserve it. We had a coke dealer around here (small town) finally get busted and sent down he tubes but he deserved it and I celebrated openly and boy did that get me some looks. He had so many girls screwed up, this has been 20 years now and most of those girls never really got it back together. So I truely believe that no drug including weed will ever be legalized, the implications will always speak for themselves. The comparitively small handful that may die or be permenantly damaged from what you call unregulated drugs would be nothing compared to the results of increased acceptence within the socioty that getting wasted is OK cause its legal.......like alcohol.

[chris]

your right about many thing sciguy but a bit off in others. thats OK still the right basic attitude though a bit narrow in scope.

The parental points were dead on. Parents that live to drink, always have beer or whatever around, friends over drunk on Saturday night, drunk on Sunday usually raise kids that think that is normal fair and grow up to live the same lifestyle. Legalized and regulated mind altering drugs used openly within the household will have the same effect......in fact have.....I know people that raised their kids smoking around them and who knows what else and guess what, 12/13/14 year old kids, major drug heads, problems in school, problems, problems, problems. So Chris you can never really expect anyone to buy into that one except people that believe it is A OK to get all doped up infront of the kids.

on the other hand

sciguy - its already impossible to hold down much of a job and smoke, random drug testing has destroyed that and in fact has destroyed many peoples lives, not the weed. However an occasional coke user has half a chance of passing the urine test. There is no comparing weed to coke or crack or any of the heavy stuff including alcohol. However an acoholic can get drunk as hell Sat night and all day Sunday beat the wife and children go to work Monday take the random urine test and go on with his dayly life unchecked. (Beating part added for drama) but you get the point or at least should.

The points about prisons and over crowding due to petty drug crimes is a good point but around here kids or young folks and even older for that matter that get in trouble the first few times for posession get little trouble, maybe an overnight in county and fines but they are not cloggin up the prison systems and those that do "go down" have asked for it and deserve it. We had a coke dealer around here (small town) finally get busted and sent down he tubes but he deserved it and I celebrated openly and boy did that get me some looks. He had so many girls screwed up, this has been 20 years now and most of those girls never really got it back together.

So I truely believe that no drug including weed will ever be legalized, the implications will always speak for themselves. The comparitively small handful that may die or be permenantly damaged from what you call unregulated drugs would be nothing compared to the results of increased acceptence within the socioty that getting wasted is OK cause its legal.......like alcohol.

[post="70517"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You keep going back to the same point which I've countered a number of times. Getting wasted is not OK. The government cannot force society to be responsible now matter how hard it tries, and things like prohibition only endanger lives while making it illegal and more dangerous (but not less easy) to do what's prohibited. We lived through it with alcohol prohibition decades ago and we're living through it with a more widespread drug prohibition now.

I'm confused with regards to your point about parental responsibility. There are too many irresponsible parents out there now, and this is GRIEVOUSLY WRONG. These are people who have the lives of children in their hands, and many today are sending these children down a one-way path to disaster. This is strictly the responsibility of the parents, and holding parents liable for the welfare of their children is most certainly something I think this country needs to do. Please pay more attention to what I am saying.

I'm not a parent myself, but I do know a few couples who have (sparingly) used an illicit substance or two. They never do it around their kids, and as a matter of fact, their kids in almost every case are overachievers. None of them shirk responsibility here. These are not hypothetical people, these are friends that I know and love.

Allow me to reiterate: I want drugs legalized. I do not want it to be legal for children to get them, and I don't want parents to think it's okay to do drugs in front of their children. Frankly I'm appalled that you continue to think that resembles what I want in any way.

FYI - the occasional coke user has a very good chance of passing the test, as does the occasional pot smoker. They both eliminate within 3-4 days. Only heavy cannabis use requires 3-4 weeks of elimination to pass the test.

[Sixty8panther]

If there is a better anit-drug in the universe please do tell because I can nto think of one!

This might even be better than sex with 3 bisexual cheerlears

[sciguy_0504]

If you are so hung up on drug use not physically harming anyone other than the user than lets do away with laws against stalking, harassment, breaking and entering, basic robbery (no on is home at the time), etc. No one is being hurt, there is no violence, crimes like that only clog up the court system. So, Chris, you admit that many parents fail to control and take responsibility for their children's actions but yet you want to place responsibility of children in their parents hands? What is your plan? Send out government monitors to grade parents on their parenting skills once a year? "Anecdotal lack of parental responsibility" is more like a huge lack of parental responsibility. Why do you think drug and alcohol problems among teens are rampant? Pregnancy rates? Newsflash: they do not have parents who care about them, their parents have zero responsibility. This is not some one-off thing among a select group of parents, it's the new (and big) thing. Honestly, do you think we would be having this debate if parents actually the balls to instill some values in their kids? Like I said before, cigs and alcohol are not available to kids but they still obtain them in huge quantities. TurboRush, you are right in a sense. Many people go to the liquor store and purchase booze and do not drink and drive. However, too many people do drink and drive, it's a serious problem and I am speaking from experience (not that I drink and drive). You will legalize some drugs and even though the majority of users, hypothetically, will not drive under the influence, there are still plenty of morons that will. Now you are dealing with double or even triple the number of people who should not be on the road, not counting people who should not be driving even if they are sober. I have seen what alcohol and drugs do to people, how they can destroy lives, marriages, families and relationships. It is much more widespread and dangerous than you let on to be. Getting high and tripping on acid is far from the rosy, fun-filled picture painted in this thread. Allowing people to do that crap because it makes jails less crowded or innocent people are not caught up in the moment or falsely believing it will shut down the drug lords and terrorist groups or even going as far to say "it's what they want to do so let them do it" is like knowing a friend or family member is going to commit suicide and allowing them to kill themselves. Drugs are for weak individuals who feel the need to gain power over others or acceptance. They are used by the weak to cover up character flaws and to keep people from seeing their true selves. The weak somehow believe drugs will make their problems go away so they do not have to deal with them head on. Sure, it may read like a DARE book but it is not far from the truth. We can agree to disagree.

[TurboRush]

Allow me to reiterate: I want drugs legalized.  I do not want it to be legal for children to get them, and I don't want parents to think it's okay to do drugs in front of their children.  Frankly I'm appalled that you continue to think that resembles what I want in any way.

FYI - the occasional coke user has a very good chance of passing the test, as does the occasional pot smoker.  They both eliminate within 3-4 days.  Only heavy cannabis use requires 3-4 weeks of elimination to pass the test.

[post="70602"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

yep, prety much....

[Cory Wolfe]

Wow, Sciguy... You have some extremist conservative views... :blink: *hopes you never become a politician* As far as I'm concerned, Chris seems more knowledgable about it and is older. That's who I'll listen too...

[Satty]

This thread needs some pot and a TeleTubbies video.

[Nick]