The SF Bay Bridge is CLOSED

[trinacriabob]

Commuting to work this morning, I thought this was a joke. But it's true.

The San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, the "workhorse" of the bridges in the Bay Area, is closed. This one connects to the city to the East Bay where millions of people live in Oakland, Berkeley, and many other towns. (The postcard bridge, the Golden Gate, connects the city to more remote, way more expensive and less populous areas).

Unlike almost exactly 20 years ago (Oct 17, 1989) when the Loma Prieta Quake popped a section out of the roadway, this time, there was no natural disaster. A connecting rod on the "East Span," which they are actually replacing with an entirely new bridge as we speak, snapped and hit a few cars during the commute hour.

Have you been following this? Crazy!

Link to Bay Bridge closure / mishap

[Justin Bimmer]

I heard about this on facebook last night, but couldn't find anything on it.

WOW.

I didn't know you lived in the bay area. I thought you lived in LA.

[trinacriabob]

I heard about this on facebook last night, but couldn't find anything on it.

WOW.

I didn't know you lived in the bay area. I thought you lived in LA.

Well, North Central California. I'm from LA (native, at that ). Pit stops in: New Jersey (kid), Atlanta (right after college), and OR/WA (parents relocated there).

Pretty crazy about the bridge, though. It'll be interesting to find out how something in its structure just sort of snaps and falls off.

[Justin Bimmer]

Well, they were worried about the bridge after they did that inspection when the put the new piece in place.

This does not surprise me unfortunately.

[SAmadei]

Pretty crazy about the bridge, though. It'll be interesting to find out how something in its structure just sort of snaps and falls off.

This is what happened in the Mianus River Bridge disaster in CT... the entire deck was supported by a pin and hanger... and when two corroded and broke, bye-bye bridge... whats scary is that there were only three of these types of bridge in the country... and one of them is in my backyard... the Garden State Parkway bridge over the Great Egg Harbor River... well in the mid-ninties during an inspection it was discovered that some of the hangers had broken, and luckily no two were on the same deck-load... but it still closed that thing for a while. Scary how many times I drove over that.

[Justin Bimmer]

Apparently the feds are in on it now too. This comes almost 20 years to the day of the 1989 earthquake which F-ed up the bridge the first time. Some Berkeley guy says commercial truck traffic should not be aloud to go over the bridge until the new span is ready.

Personally I try to avoid the bridge when going to the City. 101 to 280 FTW

[mustang84]

Wow, I imagine that is going to clog up other bridges. Are people heading as far south as the San Mateo Bridge to get across? How are they dealing with the situation?

Recently the DOT discovered that the I-80 bridge over the Mississippi in Davenport has some severe stress cracking. It is bad enough that the outer lanes have been closed, so there is only one lane open in each direction to cut down on the load the bridge carries. Repairs are going to take months, and this is one of the most important river crossings in the nation. They are also rebuilding the I-80 bridge in Omaha because it was also in bad shape. We as a nation have let our infrastructure go to hell in a handbasket over the last decade.

[Z-06]

We as a nation have let our infrastructure go to hell in a handbasket over the last decade.

Retrofitting our interstate system will cost us close to $3T. But it will also open up a tremendous job opportunity and bump the economy. The steel, workers, engineers and other resources should be Made in USA. Most of these bridges are over 40 years old. Dynamic stress fatigue is the number one cause of an older bridge collapse.

[Camino LS6]

Retrofitting our interstate system will cost us close to $3T. But it will also open up a tremendous job opportunity and bump the economy. The steel, workers, engineers and other resources should be Made in USA. Most of these bridges are over 40 years old. Dynamic stress fatigue is the number one cause of an older bridge collapse.

A real stimulus package, and way overdue.

It's past time that we focus on real things like infrastructure for a change.

[trinacriabob]

Wow, I imagine that is going to clog up other bridges. Are people heading as far south as the San Mateo Bridge to get across? How are they dealing with the situation?

Part of it will be handled by BART, who will run longer trains and more frequently.

Wow, some of the snobs in Orinda, Lafayette and Walnut Creek may finally get to see the inside of a BART train.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Sounds like Cali pays about as much attention to the condition of its critical infrastructure as Quebec.

[CARBIZ]

It may be lack of money in California (thanks, Schwarzenegger!), but up here, it's the looney-left and their hatred of all things car-related. Can you imagine, the entire central core of Toronto has been shut down for WEEKS. Adelaide St., which is the only eastbound route in the core that moves, has been closed for 2 weeks while the unionized city workers fart around with streetcar tracks. And (it gets better) 2 of the connecting streets (Church and Yonge) are also either entirely closed or down to one lane for sewer replacement and streetcar tracks. I have the misfortune of having to travel east to west in the core every day and it is a night mare of L.A. proportions. But that is the intent: frustrate and starve motorists until they abandon their cars for (get ready for this) bicycles, because the bankrupt city is spending $60 million on bicycle lanes.

[Robert Hall]

I emailed a couple fiends out there, one lives in Concord and the other in Walnut Creek, and commute to SF. They are taking the BART instead of driving this week. One couple I know there have lived there for over 10 years, never commuted by BART, only by Suburban/Escalade previously.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Z-06]

I emailed a couple fiends out there, one lives in Concord and the other in Walnut Creek, and commute to SF. They are taking the BART instead of driving this week. One couple I know there have lived there for over 10 years, never commuted by BART, only by Suburban/Escalade previously.

Ahh Pelosi taking steps to save our environment from her own homeground.

[Robert Hall]

Ahh Pelosi taking steps to save our environment from her own homeground.

Not sure what Pelosi has to do with the Bay Bridge.

[Croc]

Sounds like Cali pays about as much attention to the condition of its critical infrastructure as Quebec.

Funding. Blame Schwarzenegger. You could also blame the US Government, as California only gets back about $0.45 for every $1 it pays in federal taxes. Yes, we subsidize places like Idaho and Mississippi.

It may be lack of money in California (thanks, Schwarzenegger!), but up here, it's the looney-left and their hatred of all things car-related. Can you imagine, the entire central core of Toronto has been shut down for WEEKS. Adelaide St., which is the only eastbound route in the core that moves, has been closed for 2 weeks while the unionized city workers fart around with streetcar tracks. And (it gets better) 2 of the connecting streets (Church and Yonge) are also either entirely closed or down to one lane for sewer replacement and streetcar tracks. I have the misfortune of having to travel east to west in the core every day and it is a night mare of L.A. proportions. But that is the intent: frustrate and starve motorists until they abandon their cars for (get ready for this) bicycles, because the bankrupt city is spending $60 million on bicycle lanes.

Exactly, and yes that sounds $h!ty up there. Good luck with that.

Ahh Pelosi taking steps to save our environment from her own homeground.

Huh? This doesn't make any sense. SF is one of the most environmentally-progressive areas in the nation, along with the Pacific NW as a whole. I'd say Oregon is more of a greenie mecca, but the Bay Area is pretty enviro.

[PurdueGuy]

Funding. Blame Schwarzenegger. You could also blame the US Government, as California only gets back about $0.45 for every $1 it pays in federal taxes. Yes, we subsidize places like Idaho and Mississippi.

What exactly is being subsidized so heavily in Idaho?

[bobo]

The Bay Bridge is 73 years old. The Loma Prieta earthquake happened 20 years ago. The joke is that the eastern span of the Bay Bridge should have already been replaced, but then the local politicians wanted to built a monument to themselves instead of a functional causeway, and it will be four years before the self-anchored suspension span is completed.

[vonVeezelsnider]

What exactly is being subsidized so heavily in Idaho?

Seconded. When I drive in the Northwest US (once or twice a year) the roads are fine until I cross the Washington State line into Idaho and after I cross the Canadian border into British Columbia, but not inbetween.

[trinacriabob]

Seconded. When I drive in the Northwest US (once or twice a year) the roads are fine until I cross the Washington State line into Idaho and after I cross the Canadian border into British Columbia, but not inbetween.

That's because Sarah Palin comes from that area...kind of makes sense :wink:

[trinacriabob]

The Bay Bridge is 73 years old. The Loma Prieta earthquake happened 20 years ago. The joke is that the eastern span of the Bay Bridge should have already been replaced, but then the local politicians wanted to built a monument to themselves instead of a functional causeway, and it will be four years before the self-anchored suspension span is completed.

I was waiting for this. (I was a year off, thinking it was 1937, but, what the hell, they had the foresight to do 5 lanes in each direction on different bridge decks.

That's right. The architectural statement was unnecessary. While the old cantilevered East Span was hideous, a sleek, high up in the air causeway would have done the trick. The insertion of that suspension component with the tower that looks kind of modern/kind of retro/kind of Coit is large part of the bridge's cost (overrun).

[Croc]

What exactly is being subsidized so heavily in Idaho?

Seconded. When I drive in the Northwest US (once or twice a year) the roads are fine until I cross the Washington State line into Idaho and after I cross the Canadian border into British Columbia, but not inbetween.

...you guys haven't heard of agricultural subsidies?

Seriously, it doesn't matter "what" is being subsidized...just look at the ratios of Federal funding vs. federal taxes paid by state. CA has the lowest rate of return, and many more rural, "nowhere" states get far more back than they put in. Idaho and Mississippi are both relatively low-population and aren't economic powerhouses--Mississippi is in fact the poorest state.

[trinacriabob]

many more rural, "nowhere" states get far more back than they put in.

Mississippi is in fact the poorest state.

Sounds like you like all those demographic and statistical charts. They're interesting. They almost become predictable cliches.

Lowest SAT scores/highest teen pregnancy/lowest high school graduation:

It's the inland, non-coastal Southern States (MS, AR, etc.) and Nevada (a very white trash kind of place)

Highest SAT scores/lowest teen pregnancy/highest high school graduation:

It's the (Nordic) Upper Midwest (MN, WI) and New England (more so NH, VT)

Back to the topic at hand, (Southern) California failed to instill a commuter rail/heavy transit rail lifestyle as it should have for its intended growth, giving rise to a mind-boggling freeway system and those ramps/interchanges that postcards are made of. They're doing rapid transit 40 years later, after all the infrastructure is in place and sprawl has occurred. It embarrasses me that my hometown of L.A. has a despicable rail system (with the only line that's worth a damn being the "Red Line" because it's a fully grade-separated heavy rail subway system on a dedicated track) and all the other lines are essentially trolley cars (Green, Blue, Gold, and future Acqua lines) that run through the streets of South Central. Nice. Come on, this is America's gateway city to Asia and Oceania. Atlanta, where I lived for 2 years and really enjoyed, has a stellar transit system in its MARTA Rail (it's similar to BART and the DC Metro).

Well, looks like the Bay Bridge will be open for Monday morning's commute...and BART trains will be less crowded.

[Croc]

LA did a good job with the freeways. No other city has anywhere near as extensive of a network.

What LA stupidly did, however, was turn down the offer from Alweg to build a FREE MONORAIL line, in hopes of demonstrating its success, leading to more lines. That was in the 1960s, and Ray Bradbury still comes out of his hole from time to time to complain about its absence.

[pow]

Back to the topic at hand, (Southern) California failed to instill a commuter rail/heavy transit rail lifestyle as it should have for its intended growth, giving rise to a mind-boggling freeway system and those ramps/interchanges that postcards are made of. They're doing rapid transit 40 years later, after all the infrastructure is in place and sprawl has occurred. It embarrasses me that my hometown of L.A. has a despicable rail system (with the only line that's worth a damn being the "Red Line" because it's a fully grade-separated heavy rail subway system on a dedicated track) and all the other lines are essentially trolley cars (Green, Blue, Gold, and future Acqua lines) that run through the streets of South Central. Nice. Come on, this is America's gateway city to Asia and Oceania. Atlanta, where I lived for 2 years and really enjoyed, has a stellar transit system in its MARTA Rail (it's similar to BART and the DC Metro).

Well, looks like the Bay Bridge will be open for Monday morning's commute...and BART trains will be less crowded.

One can only dream... right?

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/10.../#comment-12132

Edited October 31, 2009 by pow

[pow]

LA did a good job with the freeways. No other city has anywhere near as extensive of a network.

What LA stupidly did, however, was turn down the offer from Alweg to build a FREE MONORAIL line, in hopes of demonstrating its success, leading to more lines. That was in the 1960s, and Ray Bradbury still comes out of his hole from time to time to complain about its absence.

What do you think of the proposed 710 corridor tunnel underneath the SGV?

[trinacriabob]

One can only dream... right?

Thank you for that excellent link to the rapid transit map. It's fairly cluttered, but once you get wade throught it, the heavy rail ambitions are weak.

When I was a young and first rode on BART as a tourist, I instantly thought L.A. should have the following:

1. Red Line as a subway - ditto - BUT extended out to West Valley, with NO stupid busway to pick up the slack from North Hollywood westward

2. Purple Line as a subway - ditto - BUT extended out to Santa Monica, or the beach*

3. Gold Line - not ditto - to Pasadena and beyond as heavy rail

4. Blue Line - not ditto - to Long Beach as heavy rail

5. Green Line - not ditto - east to west as heavy rail

6. A line out to El Monte, West Covina, La Puente and Pomona as heavy rail

7. A very important belt line, essentially following the 405 - coming from at least the base of the Valley, picking up the airport, hitting the flatlands of the South Bay and terminating at what is now the Blue Line

SEVEN lengthy heavy rail lines would have made the city of L.A. and many major suburbs quickly navigable by rail. Look at how BART covers so much area, except for monied Marin County and the Peninsula (the latter of which has apparently regretted it).

* I am laughing my ass off as I see ONE stop in BH at Wilshire and Beverly. That must have been a "political" gesture of goodwill by the people of Beverly Hills to the commoners, while they were quaking in their boots.

Sadly, pow, most of us who left Los Angeles and whose lives have taken us somewhere else love coming back to L.A. and seeing a rapid transit system unfold, though we will probably never move back. I was hoping for more heavy rail and was hoping it was sooner than later.

[regfootball]

A real stimulus package, and way overdue.

It's past time that we focus on real things like infrastructure for a change.

our policy makers don't get it yet however!

if we could just divert our funding / thievery for crap like global warming research to more useful things like.....fixing bridges so people do not die. that would be nice.

[Croc]

What do you think of the proposed 710 corridor tunnel underneath the SGV?

I will be one of the first cars to drive through it. Love it, cannot wait for the whiny NIMBYs in South Pas to get the freeway through there, even if it goes under everything. That connection is needed and would open up the 10 immensely.

[Croc]

One can only dream... right?

Well, Gold Line extension east opens Nov 15th, the Aqua/Expo line is under construction to Culver City and will soon be extended to Santa Monica, and Villaraigosa and the Metro board just approved a Long Range Transportation Plan on the 22nd that includes an accelerated timetable for the Purple Line (Subway to the Sea) extension and funded many other things through Measure R.

We're getting there, slowly.

[trinacriabob]

Long Range Transportation Plan on the 22nd that includes an accelerated timetable for the Purple Line (Subway to the Sea)

I thought getting a subway near and through the LaBrea Tar Pits area presented a major problem. I wonder if they are planning to do "cut and cover" (I think that's the term) or do it with a less disruptive tunnel boring machine. The thought of a subway extending another 12 or so miles under one of the most expensive and built-up real estate corridors in Los Angeles is mind-boggling.

Isn't it overkill to do both an Acqua Line through Culver City on to Santa Monica AS WELL as a Purple Line to Santa Monica?

About the 710 Tunnel, how much is it supposed to cost? I sort of understand the need for the Big Dig in Boston as that is its central artery in the very dense downtown core, but that was budgeted at $2.8 billion and wound up costing $14 billion (almost 5x the budget).

I think that four-laning the Pasadena Freeway in each direction is much more necessary than the 710 tunnel, IMHO.

[Croc]

I thought getting a subway near and through the LaBrea Tar Pits area presented a major problem. I wonder if they are planning to do "cut and cover" (I think that's the term) or do it with a less disruptive tunnel boring machine. The thought of a subway extending another 12 or so miles under one of the most expensive and built-up real estate corridors in Los Angeles is mind-boggling.

Methane is always an issue, but technology has improved since the 1980s. Still, it would be pretty entertaining if random parts of the Fairfax district just exploded. The subway will be built with the same tunnel boring machines as used in the 1980s--they've never left the tunnel, but methane detection and ventilations will be used to prevent ignition.

Isn't it overkill to do both an Acqua Line through Culver City on to Santa Monica AS WELL as a Purple Line to Santa Monica?

Nope. Santa Monica may be the end destination, but the lines cover very different areas geographically, as the map shows.

About the 710 Tunnel, how much is it supposed to cost? I sort of understand the need for the Big Dig in Boston as that is its central artery in the very dense downtown core, but that was budgeted at $2.8 billion and wound up costing $14 billion (almost 5x the budget).

Unclear. That said, the incremental cost of tunneling isn't outlandish because of the appreciation of Caltrans-owned property purchased in the 1960s and 1970s in anticipation of a surface routing. The tunnel is the only way this will get built due to South Pas' whiny NIMBYism--they've fought that freeway for 4 decades.

I think that four-laning the Pasadena Freeway in each direction is much more necessary than the 710 tunnel, IMHO.

Funny. Excluding the fact that it is a Historic Scenic Byway, and therefore can only have minor modifications made to it, where would those lanes go? The Arroyo Seco is to the right, and neighborhood streets are to the left. And every historic bridge would have to be replaced. And shoulders would have to be added. Impossible. The only modification that freeway will receive in the forseeable future is the addition of a concrete center barrier with "stone wall" detailing to replace the double guardrail, and maybe the addition of soundwalls in some neighborhood areas.

[pow]

Funny. Excluding the fact that it is a Historic Scenic Byway, and therefore can only have minor modifications made to it, where would those lanes go? The Arroyo Seco is to the right, and neighborhood streets are to the left. And every historic bridge would have to be replaced. And shoulders would have to be added. Impossible. The only modification that freeway will receive in the forseeable future is the addition of a concrete center barrier with "stone wall" detailing to replace the double guardrail, and maybe the addition of soundwalls in some neighborhood areas.

Yeah, I don't see the need to expand the northern 110. It's twisty, narrow, and bumpy, sure, but it's hardly ever clogged up with traffic. It's mostly neighborhoods on each side. And on and off ramps are plentiful.

[pow]

I will be one of the first cars to drive through it. Love it, cannot wait for the whiny NIMBYs in South Pas to get the freeway through there, even if it goes under everything. That connection is needed and would open up the 10 immensely.

I like the idea as a motorist... I'll be able to get from Eagle Rock to East LA in a jiffy, and I don't really care about South Pas, since it's gonna be a tunnel, anyway. My only concern is that this will encourage even more truck traffic on the 710, which is already burdening communities along the corridor.

I'll be in favor of the tunnel if only goods-movement vehicles can use some alternate, low-polluting path (rail? Alameda corridor? ZEV trucks?) that doesn't screw over these poorer, working class, immigrant communities.

The current 710 proposal (Alternative 6B, I think) is 10 lanes for normal vehicles, plus 4 on top for trucks. Crazy. In a few years, it will be congested like it is today with "only" 8 lanes.

Edited November 2, 2009 by pow

[Croc]

I like the idea as a motorist... I'll be able to get from Eagle Rock to East LA in a jiffy, and I don't really care about South Pas, since it's gonna be a tunnel, anyway. My only concern is that this will encourage even more truck traffic on the 710, which is already burdening communities along the corridor.

I'll be in favor of the tunnel if only goods-movement vehicles can use some alternate, low-polluting path (rail? Alameda corridor? ZEV trucks?) that doesn't screw over these poorer, working class, immigrant communities.

The current 710 proposal (Alternative 6B, I think) is 10 lanes for normal vehicles, plus 4 on top for trucks. Crazy. In a few years, it will be congested like it is today with "only" 8 lanes.

Well, I think the point is to provide an alternate to the 5 for truck traffic. Can't say I'm thrilled, though, about the elimination of an interchange at Huntington Dr., or the elimination of an interface with the 110, but whatever.

As extensive as LA's network is, it has one glaring deficiency: many interchanges do not allow complete freedom of movement, and so if one wants to go from point A to point B, there often is a lack of alternate routes, even if several different freeways intersect.

I also think it will ease congestion on the 10 between SGV and the 5, and allow the 210 to be a more viable alternate for some 10 traffic. Hell, northern Pasadena will become a LOT more accessible as there is virtually no regional access to the 210 between the 605 and the 2 / 134.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Croc

[trinacriabob]

It's funny how where you live, work and hang out affects the freeways you know.

I think I may have been on the 710 and the 605 ONCE EACH.

Now, for the 405, the 10 and the 101, that was an altogether different story...it's like you know every landmark, building and billboard on those.

[Croc]

I'm never on the 605...so far inland. 710 I go on occasionally because sometimes it's faster to get to SGV by taking the 60 to the 710 and getting off at Cesar Chavez or Ramona, and taking local streets to Atlantic or Fremont, then north to Valley.

My main freeways are 110, 101, and 10. 405 would be on that list, but I try to avoid that mess whenever possible.

[tmp]

* I am laughing my ass off as I see ONE stop in BH at Wilshire and Beverly. That must have been a "political" gesture of goodwill by the people of Beverly Hills to the commoners, while they were quaking in their boots.

Actually there are two: Wilshire/Beverly and Wilshire/LaCienega. Century City and the Beverly Center stop will be about a 15 minute walk from the city borders.

The problem with the subway is convincing people to actually get their asses out of their cars and use them, rather than just thinking of them as ways to get "other" people off the roads to make their commute faster.

[Justin Bimmer]

The Beverly Center is nice.

[trinacriabob]

Actually there are two: Wilshire/Beverly and Wilshire/LaCienega.

I must have missed Wilshire/LaCienega, which is still barely within BH but feels more like the "Miracle Mile." Are any of the great movie houses still in that area, like the El Rey and the Fox Wilshire? The latter one had a balcony, IIRC, the hallmark of a great LA movie house (the Fox Village is of that vintage and still open). I believe the Carthay Circle gave way to the wrecking ball, probably in the 70s or 80s. The Cinerama Dome could only be in LA () and is a short walk from a Red Line stop (the one that has all the movie reels in the ceiling). While not as skanky as Hollywood once was, seeing the Chinese Theater, the stars in the sidewalk and the Cinerama Dome was really enjoyable for my cousin visiting from Europe.

When is the Purple Line supposed to begin passenger service? So, it has actually been voted in then?

[Croc]

Metro passed the LRTP on the 22nd, and that item provided allocations of Measure R funding for a variety of highway, bus and rail projects for the region.

[tmp]

I must have missed Wilshire/LaCienega, which is still barely within BH but feels more like the "Miracle Mile." Are any of the great movie houses still in that area, like the El Rey and the Fox Wilshire? The latter one had a balcony, IIRC, the hallmark of a great LA movie house (the Fox Village is of that vintage and still open). I believe the Carthay Circle gave way to the wrecking ball, probably in the 70s or 80s. The Cinerama Dome could only be in LA () and is a short walk from a Red Line stop (the one that has all the movie reels in the ceiling). While not as skanky as Hollywood once was, seeing the Chinese Theater, the stars in the sidewalk and the Cinerama Dome was really enjoyable for my cousin visiting from Europe.

When is the Purple Line supposed to begin passenger service? So, it has actually been voted in then?

I wouldn't tell the people who live there that they're "barely" in BH, they won't react well.

The El Rey is a nightclub and has been one since the 80's, but is still there. The Fox Wilshire is still there as well, under a different name and is still going strong. The Carthay Circle did indeed get torn down, as did the Warner Theater futher west in the 80's and the Beverly Theater more recently. The Cinerama Dome was saved by preservationists who convinces the new owners to build the Arclight Cinema complex behind and next to it. I hope you got to show your cousin the Egyptian, which was an earlier theater of Syd Graumanns that's been restored by the American Cinematheque.

The Purple Line is still up in the air. But a lot of people want it in West Hollywood and the Valley (to cut time on a trip to the Westside centers of Employment)

[Croc]

The Purple Line is still up in the air. But a lot of people want it in West Hollywood and the Valley (to cut time on a trip to the Westside centers of Employment)

The WeHo routing is known around metro as an additional "pink line." Purple line is going to happen, mark my words. Pink? That's more up in the air, but if I were a betting man, I'd bet on it...just the timing of "when" is uncertain.

[The O.C.]

I emailed a couple fiends out there, one lives in Concord and the other in Walnut Creek, and commute to SF. They are taking the BART instead of driving this week. One couple I know there have lived there for over 10 years, never commuted by BART, only by Suburban/Escalade previously.

I lived in Danville for two years......and if I had an office job in the city, I would have loved to travel by BART into the city.....the Walnut Creek station was only like 5-10 minutes from my place.....

Just think.....you can go out after work and play, drink, not have to worry about driving home (well you couldn't play too hard....still have to make the 5 min drive from WC to home....lol) but no traffic stress.....etc, etc.....

[Robert Hall]

I lived in Danville for two years......and if I had an office job in the city, I would have loved to travel by BART into the city.....the Walnut Creek station was only like 5-10 minutes from my place.....

Just think.....you can go out after work and play, drink, not have to worry about driving home (well you couldn't play too hard....still have to make the 5 min drive from WC to home....lol) but no traffic stress.....etc, etc.....

That's one of things I miss about living downtown like I did for a while in Denver or when I was living in a college town (Ann Arbor, Kent). I had some of that also when I was in the Denver burbs (Greenwood Village). I'd drive less than 5 min to the light rail station and head downtown for the evening for a baseball game, hockey game, concert, restaurants, bookstores, etc. Very convenient.

To do any thing fun in the Phoenix metro requires plenty of driving...

[The O.C.]

That's one of things I miss about living downtown like I did for a while in Denver or when I was living in a college town (Ann Arbor, Kent). I had some of that also when I was in the Denver burbs (Greenwood Village). I'd drive less than 5 min to the light rail station and head downtown for the evening for a baseball game, hockey game, concert, restaurants, bookstores, etc. Very convenient.

To do any thing fun in the Phoenix metro requires plenty of driving...

The awful thing about BART is it shuts down at midnight. What's the good of that, if you live in the burbs and wanna take BART into the city for an evening of libations and don't wanna drink-and-drive?

If you are planning a late night out at the bars, you'll have no BART waiting for you at 2am.....I sadly ended up driving into the city every weekend when I went out....and had to temper my drinking with sensability.....ugh.....the fun I could've had.....

[Robert Hall]

The awful thing about BART is it shuts down at midnight. What's the good of that, if you live in the burbs and wanna take BART into the city for an evening of libations and don't wanna drink-and-drive?

If you are planning a late night out at the bars, you'll have no BART waiting for you at 2am.....I sadly ended up driving into the city every weekend when I went out....and had to temper my drinking with sensability.....ugh.....the fun I could've had.....

IIRC, light rail in Denver runs until midnight also... of course, Friday and Saturday nights were/are about the only time I ever stay up that late, since I get up at 5:30 during the week to get encube by 7:30.

[trinacriabob]

The El Rey is a nightclub and has been one since the 80's, but is still there. The Fox Wilshire is still there as well, under a different name and is still going strong. The Carthay Circle did indeed get torn down, as did the Warner Theater futher west in the 80's and the Beverly Theater more recently. The Cinerama Dome was saved by preservationists who convinces the new owners to build the Arclight Cinema complex behind and next to it. I hope you got to show your cousin the Egyptian, which was an earlier theater of Syd Graumanns that's been restored by the American Cinematheque.

I was thinking about the Carthay Circle. Wow. What a storied history. Built in 1926 and pulled down by the wrecking ball in 1969. It was deemed inefficient because it was too big, had one screen and probably was not amenable to multi-screen conversion. Very sad -- an imposing movie palace, with its trademark tower. It does look a lot like the Fox Village, though, which I hope is protected on some register. The Carthay Circle was second only to the Chinese Theater for premiering blockbuster films in the Southland, according to the blurb.

Then click again...one page from a whole collection of L.A. movie theater architecture - beautiful

The Warner was art-deco, which I didn't like that much, but the Beverly had a Moorish or Arabic theme, and set into the angled corner, so it was one-of-a-kind, but probably too low-rise and unprofitable for such a high visibility corner.

The Cinerama Dome, again, looks like something from The Jetsons. The following picture is courtesy of wikipedia. Haha...there is a 24 Hour Fitness inscription to the right of it, through the palm trees.

I was there over the 4th of July 2004, and this movie was playing at the time and I was pissed that the big publicity spider was there screwing up an otherwise good picture.

tmp, if we got far enough east of the Chinese Theater on foot to see the Pantages, then we did see the Egyptian. I don't remember.

L.A. is all about pushing out boundaries, on many levels (well...maybe except for putting a subway under the ground).

Edited November 7, 2009 by trinacriabob

[Robert Hall]

Very cool... I've never lived in LA, but have always had an affinity for it, it's architecture, and its history from the myriad movies, TV shows, and books I've read over the years. As far as theatres and other venues, I've been to a few concerts in the LA area---at the Hollywood Bowl, Gibson Amphitheatre (Universal City), and a couple on the Santa Monica pier (stumbled on a great free concert there about 5 years ago---Clarence Clemons and his band).

I'll have to drive over some weekend this fall or winter and do some LA stuff--eat at Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles, etc.

My 2010 could involve So Cal more than AZ, if my sister takes a gig in El Segundo she interviewed for this week...and I may land a gig in Irvine w/ some friends after my current contract in Chandler, AZ ends.

[trinacriabob]

Very cool... I've never lived in LA, but have always had an affinity for it

It's kind of weird. The SF Bay Area is clearly the more "photogenic" of the two, especially with the (now somewhat less alarming) smog problem in LA, but I really like the vibe of the Southland better than that of the Bay Area (and this thread was about the Bay Area).

I think most people clearly like one over the other as their preferred place to live, if they have a choice in the matter, and that's how it shakes out. I know very few people who would be "indifferent" on this one.

I presume the Bay Bridge is now operational, but they did say another closure is foreseen to perform a more complete repair.

Edited November 7, 2009 by trinacriabob