The Regal Buick Returns!

[pow]

IMHO the question should be how about OPC hardware for the sporty version? Offering the OPC over there would be way cooler than a 280hp V6 sporty model.

IMO, people like the sporty OPC look - the 20" wheels and Recaros are hot - but I doubt an actual OPC would sell. In European reviews, it doesn't fare as well as the 335i and S4, and here in the US, there are a number of more established, high-performance sedans like the G37 and, up until recently, the G8.

I'm thinking Insignia with an OPC-lite styling package, 2.0T 220 hp engine, sports suspension, and six-speed manual. The 2.8T with AWD guzzles gas like a V8.

[Drew Dowdell]

Two Autoblogs posts on this today:

The NA Version from Facebook as mentioned earlier in this thread: Link

And the rumored performance model with a chop: Link

Wow! That sport chop is HOT!

GM is on a roll with me lately. First the CTS wagon and coupe (and the SRX for my partner), then the Terrain or Equinox (for my partner), then the Caprice if it makes it here in civilian form, and then this Regal GS idea.

GM, if you build the Regal GS to look like this, you'll officially have at least one vehicle from each division that would be on my shopping list!

[Drew Dowdell]

This car still looks so japanese to me...

really? I see German.

[Robert Hall]

really? I see German.

Ya, it's a bit of a noodleschnitzel..German Opel w/ a Chinese Buick front end.

[Camino LS6]

I see it mostly in the nose...

[SingleStylish]

The first photo is has too much of a generic blandness to it. It would be nice if the sporty looks of the later were used for the full model line. Additional enhancements like lowered suspension and fatter tires could sell the package for a true sport model.

[smk4565]

This car still looks so japanese to me...

Very true, almost looks like a Mazda or Hyundai, although I think the new Sonata looks better.

There seems to be a lot of hope that they make this car sporty, but Buick has nearly zero appeal to non-traditional Buick buyers. People who want a sporty car are going to buy a Mazda, Subaru, Nissan, VW, etc, they aren't going to look at Buick, just like that demographic won't look at a Camry. If they try to make this car sporty (in hope of getting former Pontiac owners perhaps) it will be a sales dud. Soft and cushy with good mileage is the way to go.

[FAPTurbo]

HOT!!!

[smk4565]

To me the car has a little German look to it. If it had rings in the grill it could pass for a Audi. I just wish the grill was a little more understated and thank God the ports are removed.

No, It couldn't pass for an Audi. Audi's do not have tacky shark tooth looking vents up front, or flashy body cladding. Audi's are more understated, elegant and classy looking. To me Audi's are a little bland, except for the A5, but a lot of people like a luxury car that isn't flashy and looks like a grown up's car. The Insignia OPC, much like the G6 GXP, looks like it should be in a fast and furious movie.

[smk4565]

You'd think GM would have learned by now, but they seem to have a desire to keep repeating the same mistake.

Oldsmobile was to be the import fighter, it went out of business

Catera was an Opel for the U.S., it was a bust

GTO was imported for the U.S., it was a bust

Saturn Astra was in imported Opel, it was a bust

Saturn Aura was inspired by Opel, another bust

Saturn became the import fighter, went out of business

Pontiac G8 was imported, slow sales and Pontiac went out of business.

So now Buick is the import fighter and getting cars from Opel, gee I wonder what will happen to Buick in 4 years.

[ocnblu]

So much white noise in this thread, posted by smk4565. Anyone who thinks a hot Buick won't sell or won't have appeal has no clue about the brand's potential. Gran Sport, GSX, Grand National, GNX, T-Type, S-Type... all are part of the brand's DNA and were popular, even legendary.

IMO, keeping the brand static will do more to kill it than diversifying it with some sporty offerings mixed in.

I'm going to beat the coupe drum everywhere I can in a Regal thread, as that would be an excellent companion to the sedan.

I am hopeful the silver Facebook sedan is what we get, to start, as it is the cleanest version yet. The fender vents don't fit unless they're styled like ventiports.

[ZL-1]

The issue is execution and visibility, not positioning. If your idea was taken to its logical conclusion, Chevrolet and Cadillac would be releasing 1967-like models over and over again... and they'd be long gone.

335i and S4 are not Opel's direct competitors and they are certainly not Buick's direct competitors. Even if the Opel/Buick is not as good as those, it is placed lower in the prestige scale.

[SingleStylish]

Very true, almost looks like a Mazda or Hyundai, although I think the new Sonata looks better.

There seems to be a lot of hope that they make this car sporty, but Buick has nearly zero appeal to non-traditional Buick buyers. People who want a sporty car are going to buy a Mazda, Subaru, Nissan, VW, etc, they aren't going to look at Buick, just like that demographic won't look at a Camry. If they try to make this car sporty (in hope of getting former Pontiac owners perhaps) it will be a sales dud. Soft and cushy with good mileage is the way to go.

Because soft and cushy with good mileage has worked so well for Buick lately?

An injection of sport to the lowest (least expensive) Buick will attract younger conservative entry lux buyers.

[hyperv6]

With the Regal they are trying to give a affordable step up from Chevy without being a straight rebadge with some ground effects and dated ribbing. It is a modern competitive car in the world makret and should do well here.

GM is not forgoing the sport version and options like AWD that you can not get on a Chevy Malibu [at least yet].

This has already been proven to be a car that is well liked in Europe and China so I would think people here will see it in a good way and hopfully start to change their outlook for Buick. The Change of preception of GM and her divisions will be done one model at a time. This is just another step in the way of recovery.

Hyundia has shown that if you make tasteful cars that are affordable, reliable and deliver a lot of car for the money you can grow in the market.

How long ago Hyundia was a joke in the industry and today they are feared by the likes of Honda and Toyota. Yes they also did it a model at a time.

[Z-06]

German car magazine, Auto Zeitung had a comparison between OPC and S4. Although S4 won comfortably, they were genuinely impressed with the OPC saying it was a solid effort from GM. The cars are almost equal in power with the GM weighing about 300lbs LESS than the 4 circles.

[regfootball]

This car still looks so japanese to me...

so it should sell then

[enzl]

As GM is currently begging established dealer groups to take over and re-start defunct Buick-GMC (thanks to GMAC's abandonment of floorplan all over), anything that'll get people into showrooms is a good start.

I look at Regal as a complimentary piece like the CC to the Passat--and the Regal looks much better in person- GM photography strikes again.

[regfootball]

As GM is currently begging established dealer groups to take over and re-start defunct Buick-GMC (thanks to GMAC's abandonment of floorplan all over), anything that'll get people into showrooms is a good start.

I look at Regal as a complimentary piece like the CC to the Passat--and the Regal looks much better in person- GM photography strikes again.

If GM packages a version of the Regal properly, it can majorly gain some of the attention of Passat / CC buyers.

that involves, however, a decent 4 popp turbo. 220hp will not cut it. MT must be an option available.

A turbo 4 pot Regal with MT at 3-4 cheaper than equivalent CC could make waves in the market. It could even grab a few A4 buyers i think.

[Blake Noble]

Say it with me: 50/50 AWD manual Regal GS Coupe in black!

[ocnblu]

hallelujah

[Gizhost]

I was a little bothered when information from GM was initially leaked about bringing back the Regal. Having owned a 98 GS and loved the car I want to see something that deserves the Regal name. My reasoning was that the 2010 LaCrosse is what the Regal should have evolved into IMO and word from GM during early talks of the cars revival was that it would be limited to a choice of 4 cylinder engines exclusively. I have a problem with that because it would be like creating a modern day Century and slapping Regal badges on it. If GM were to put a high powered turbo 4 cylinder engine in the vehicle then I wouldn't be bothered as much, but I don't think a power plant with less than 200hp should be offered in either this new Regal or the LaCrosse. GM is already planning to add a 4 cylinder as an option on the LaCrosse for fuel economy reasons but it seems like a bad choice IMO at around 175hp, that is a lot of car to move for the 3.0L and 3.6L already and I don't know if the reduced weight of the four will make a big enough difference. If GM decided to go with a 4 cylinder engine making something around 250hp and that was the only engine offered...similar to the way Audi has done with the A4 except obviously with more power than the A4, again I don't think that would be a problem but it still wouldn't be a Regal...the idea is also doable since the LNF could easily bring that kind of power to the table. Anyway finding out GM is not only considering offering the vehicle with a 3.6L engine but also bring back the GS model by way of the Insignia OPC...I can't wait to see what GM has in store for the new Regal and the Buick brand...this is the direction the brand should have been going in a long time ago lets just set those four cylinder engines aside for now though.

Edited October 19, 2009 by Gizhost

[hyperv6]

I was a little bothered when information from GM was initially leaked about bringing back the Regal. Having owned a 98 GS and loved the car I want to see something that deserves the Regal name. My reasoning was that the 2010 LaCrosse is what the Regal should have evolved into IMO and word from GM during early talks of the cars revival was that it would be limited to a choice of 4 cylinder engines exclusively. I have a problem with that because it would be like creating a modern day Century and slapping Regal badges on it. If GM were to put a high powered turbo 4 cylinder engine in the vehicle then I wouldn't be bothered as much, but I don't think a power plant with less than 200hp should be offered in either this new Regal or the LaCrosse. GM is already planning to add a 4 cylinder as an option on the LaCrosse for fuel economy reasons but it seems like a bad choice IMO at around 175hp, that is a lot of car to move for the 3.0L and 3.6L already and I don't know if the reduced weight of the four will make a big enough difference. If GM decided to go with a 4 cylinder engine making something around 250hp and that was the only engine offered...similar to the way Audi has done with the A4 except obviously with more power than the A4, again I don't think that would be a problem but it still wouldn't be a Regal...the idea is also doable since the LNF could easily bring that kind of power to the table. Anyway finding out GM is not only considering offering the vehicle with a 3.6L engine but also bring back the GS model by way of the Insignia OPC...I can't wait to see what GM has in store for the new Regal and the Buick brand...this is the direction the brand should have been going in a long time ago lets just set those four cylinder engines aside for now though.

GM I think is just looking to the 4 cylinder for MPG and when the higher gas prices hit they will be ready. The price will go up due to oil prices or goverment taxes. One way or another it will go up in the not to distant future. The economy has help keeo the goverment from doing much yet but in time they will hit the tax if oil is cheap.

Untill then we will still see a full range just as we did in years past when the Skylark could be had with a inline 6 for those who just had to have it to the 455.

Edited October 19, 2009 by hyperv6

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Needs a V-6 engine option, preferably the 3.6, and hopefully the 4-cylinder LaCrosse will be a temporary stand-in until Regal arrives....a car that big needs a V-6, even the 3.0 which Consumer Guide said was adequate, almost underpowered I think....looking forward to this car too, I hope it has a good-size trunk and rear-seat room!

[pow]

Awesome.

[Drew Dowdell]

Needs a V-6 engine option, preferably the 3.6, and hopefully the 4-cylinder LaCrosse will be a temporary stand-in until Regal arrives....a car that big needs a V-6, even the 3.0 which Consumer Guide said was adequate, almost underpowered I think....looking forward to this car too, I hope it has a good-size trunk and rear-seat room!

Na. Put in the BAS-II Ecotec Turbo. Same HP and Torque curve of the 3.6, half the weight.

[hyperv6]

GM can make the LNF do 290 HP now with a engine that will pass even in California. With this engine now more available with the loss of the Sky and Solstice it is time to find a new home. More will be available after this year too with the loss of the HHR SS and Cobalt SS.

I would like them to find 10 more HP just to make it sound better at 300 HP.

By the way the GM tune not only adds more power but it adds 1-2 MPG. I found this on mine and it was confirmed to me by Bill Duncan of the GM performance group. He is the guy behind the upgrade kit. Bill is one of the guys I wish GM would say more about. He is one of GM's best.

[Drew Dowdell]

GM can make the LNF do 290 HP now with a engine that will pass even in California. With this engine now more available with the loss of the Sky and Solstice it is time to find a new home. More will be available after this year too with the loss of the HHR SS and Cobalt SS.

I would like them to find 10 more HP just to make it sound better at 300 HP.

By the way the GM tune not only adds more power but it adds 1-2 MPG. I found this on mine and it was confirmed to me by Bill Duncan of the GM performance group. He is the guy behind the upgrade kit. Bill is one of the guys I wish GM would say more about. He is one of GM's best.

What does it do to the refinement?

[smk4565]

They aren't going to put a high pressure turbo 4 in a Buick. The fuel efficiency isn't great, and 290 hp turbo in a front drive car is going to lead to horrible torque steer. This car is taking the place of the G6 and Aura and will be lucky to get more than 220 hp in top level trim.

Look at the engine downsizing going on at GM right now. The Equinox was V6 only, now it will be mostly 4-cylinder, with a 3.0 liter as the top engine (they used to offer the 3.6). Buicks used to have the 3800, even V8s in the LaX and Lucerne Super, but soon the 3.6 will be the biggest Buick engine with the 3.0 and 4 cylinders making up the bulk of sales. GMC had the Envoy with the 4.2 I6 and 5.3 V8, gone and replaced by the 4 cylinder Terrain and 3.6 V6 Acadia. On to Cadillac, SRX V8, dead, now a 3.0 is the biggest SRX engine. XTS is rumored as V6 only (Northstar V8 gone). Basically, GM vehicles that had V8s 5-10 years ago, now have the 3.6 V6 (Cadillacs, SUVs, top end Buick). And the middle range GM cars that used to have V6s (Nox, Malibu, Regal, etc) now have 4-bangers.

We are going to see small to midsize being 4-cylinders, with the 3.6 V6 in the 2010s being like what the Northstar was in the 1990s. The 3.6 will be reserved for Cadillac and full sizer vehicles like the Lambdas.

[Justin Bimmer]

SMK, all the engines that are downsizing have the same power if not more than the engines they are replacing. With better economy.

[pow]

Insignia OPC review... me likey... want:

[Paolino]

The chop is hot. I don't see why this car with maybe a 2.8L turbo or DI 3.6L V6 couldn't compete with maybe a TL. The new TL in my opinion is horrendous looking but from what I read, it is an awesome drive. I hear the same about this but I don't seem to gag when I look at the pictures.

[smk4565]

The chop is hot. I don't see why this car with maybe a 2.8L turbo or DI 3.6L V6 couldn't compete with maybe a TL. The new TL in my opinion is horrendous looking but from what I read, it is an awesome drive. I hear the same about this but I don't seem to gag when I look at the pictures.

Because a TL is more expensive than a LaCrosse, and the Regal is "a few thousand less" than the LaCrosse. It's the same reason the Malibu or Aura with a v6 didn't compete with Acura. The CTS competes with the Acura TL. But I agree the TL is hideous looking.

[Drew Dowdell]

SMK, two vehicles don't have to cost the same amounts to be able to compete.

[Gizhost]

Anything with a lot of power going through the front wheels has the potential for torque steer no matter what kind of engine it has, however I will admit that some of these turbo fours aren't showing the kind of fuel economy improvements people are lead to believe they would bring because when you get on the gas...fuel economy estimates go out the window.

[ZL-1]

The chop is hot. I don't see why this car with maybe a 2.8L turbo or DI 3.6L V6 couldn't compete with maybe a TL. The new TL in my opinion is horrendous looking but from what I read, it is an awesome drive. I hear the same about this but I don't seem to gag when I look at the pictures.

More of a TSX competitor IMO, as the Acura TSX is (minus the horrendous grille) the Honda Accord here in Europe.

[hyperv6]

What does it do to the refinement?

It under normal driving feels and sounds more refind as it make more power and you don't have to really hammer on the engine to move the vehicle like most underpowered 4 cylinders.

The power curve is pretty flat as it makes the power low and holds it through the range well. With just a crack of the trottle you can see 12 to 15 PSI with low revs. I just saw 24 PSI the other day for the first time.

It will put 3200 pounds into the high 13's and still deliver 31-32 MPG with a tall vehicle.

Even the 3.6 will make some noise at high RPM's. It is quiet and smooth on the bottom but hit the revs it will make noise too. Though it will be just a little smoother.

One thing to note is the LNF with the tune in the 5 speed Solstice would put out 340 FT pound of torque. This would come in handy with AWD. They detuned the Auto transaxles to 315 FT pounds.

Edited October 20, 2009 by hyperv6

[hyperv6]

Anything with a lot of power going through the front wheels has the potential for torque steer no matter what kind of engine it has, however I will admit that some of these turbo fours aren't showing the kind of fuel economy improvements people are lead to believe they would bring because when you get on the gas...fuel economy estimates go out the window.

Torques steer while not gone is well controled in many of the higer powered GM cars today. Mine with more power and torque has a little pull but will not rip from your hands as in the past. While RWD is still better the GM FWD's with near 300 HP are very acceptable.

It is no where as bad as the SSEI I used to have with only 240 HP. That one had you looking at the ditch often. Even my 260 HP GTP is not as good either. The performance group tuning has done a good job.

As for fuel mileage. I have a tall not too aero HHR getting 23 City and 31-32 highway with an automatic. I find this acceptable for 3200 pouns and 290 HP. Tubo's VVT and DI is the key to it all.

VVT and DI loves Turbocharging. Gone are the days where you had to rev the piss out of a DOHC 4 banger to get it to go anywhere. I never drove a 4 cylinder I liked till last year and I love it. As an option to this I would rather see a 2.8 V6 Turbo with DI. What ever Buick offers it needs to have a turbo to offer the advanced technolgy in this class vs just putting in a 3.6 Malibu engine.

Edited October 20, 2009 by hyperv6

[Paolino]

More of a TSX competitor IMO, as the Acura TSX is (minus the horrendous grille) the Honda Accord here in Europe.

I would have said TSX but when I thought about it, the reviews have been so negative (with ride/handling), I bumped up to something positive, the TL.

[regfootball]

No, It couldn't pass for an Audi. Audi's do not have tacky shark tooth looking vents up front, or flashy body cladding. Audi's are more understated, elegant and classy looking. To me Audi's are a little bland, except for the A5, but a lot of people like a luxury car that isn't flashy and looks like a grown up's car. The Insignia OPC, much like the G6 GXP, looks like it should be in a fast and furious movie.

Audi is no longer a style leader. its design themes are beyond stale. there is not a single audi that is stunning these days, aside from the R8.

[smk4565]

Audi's aren't supposed to be flashy like a Cadillac or Mercedes. Many people like the conservative, contemporary look, and want a more understated luxury car. Plus less flashy looking cars to to age well, compared to Chrysler products that look dated after 2-3 years on market. Audi wouldn't be my first choice, but I can see why a lot of people like them.

We still don't really know if the Regal is meant to compete with the Fusion Sport, Mazda 6 and Altima (sportier), or the Camry, Sonata and Milan (the softer cars).

[alwazir]

Hello guys,

I believe, you would manage to understand some facts bout the New Regal's engine, Trans, and so on

http://newregal.buick.com.cn/

[frogger]

I don't really care about it having more power than 220hp, what I'm interested in seeing is it being the best handling FWD sedan with the best feedback to the driver. A car you can enter turns at a high enough speed your passenger thinks you're going to die, and it gets through it with nary a tire chirp.

Edited October 21, 2009 by frogger

[hyperv6]

I don't really care about it having more power than 220hp, what I'm interested in seeing is it being the best handling FWD sedan with the best feedback to the driver. A car you can enter turns at a high enough speed your passenger thinks you're going to die, and it gets through it with nary a tire chirp.

Checkout a Cobalt SS and see what GM can do with a FWD if they want to.

It is as fast as a Camaro at the Ring. Also it will not knock you fillings out. It was even faster than a Mustang GT at VIR. Not bad for a FWD.

[Z-06]

Hello guys,

I believe, you would manage to understand some facts bout the New Regal's engine, Trans, and so on

http://newregal.buick.com.cn/

Welcome to the site and happy posting.

Yes, China's Buick Regal has the LNF 2.0 that makes 220 odd hp along with the other N/A mill, which has not gotten better reviews from the magazines. However, most of us feel like US version will get more powerful version following the trend of TSX, Mazda6 and other vehicles.

[FloydHendershot]

Hello guys,

I believe, you would manage to understand some facts bout the New Regal's engine, Trans, and so on

http://newregal.buick.com.cn/

asldfkjo sadfhj rhash knasfdiousa jkr'asd

That's what I managed to understand from that link. Google wouldn't even translate it. I applaud the enthusiasm but until I learn Chinese, I'm outta luck chum.

Seriously, I got hungry reading that link. Perhaps you could narrow down the dialect.

Edited October 22, 2009 by FloydHendershot

[The O.C.]

so it should sell then

I was just getting ready to say that (about it looking japanese/german)......sad to say, but it's about time.....you know...if you can't beat 'em.....join 'em......

[The O.C.]

The sad fact is.....none of the debates on this thread really matter........as has been stated over and over again.....what is GM going to do to get people to come into the Buick showroom....much less slow their car down to even glace over at the lot...?

Because obviously good (excellent?) product isn't now good enough anymore for GM......and I'm the first to admit I don't have the answer.....nor do I have any really good suggestions anymore....

I REALLY like the new LaCrosse (especially after seeing it at the auto show in person) and the Regal looks like a car even I would buy.....but the sad fact of GM's perception problem was highlighted all over again when I was at the O.C. auto show.

Again.....the GM displays were ghost towns. Except for a few people checking out ZR-1s and the Camaro, the displays....were....deserted.....even Cadillac, even the CTS-V didn't garner any attention while I was there.

And Buick? Let me just say the entire time I was in the Buick display looking at the LaCrosse.....one, I repeat, one person looked at a LaCrosse or sat inside one......and, oh yeah, he was old.....

Of course I'm going to tell you the imports were jammed packed....that's because they were.....you could hardly walk through Audi/BMW/etc.....even (bland) Toyota was crowded.....EVEN FORD had a ton of people checking out Taurus, Mustang, Fusion.....in fact, Ford was almost as busy as any of the imports.

[Drew Dowdell]

It'll take a little more time for GM. Ford didn't pull off their perception turnaround overnight, it took them 3 years.

[The O.C.]

It'll take a little more time for GM. Ford didn't pull off their perception turnaround overnight, it took them 3 years.

I know.....it just really pisses me off........it just seems like the more things change (great products) the more they stay the same (same arrogant, "it's not my fault" attitude, etc.)

I mean jeezus.....Ford was out front with this whole Fiesta test-drive event.....(cool little car, btw) but where was the new "LaCrosse/Equinox/Pick Your New GM product and Insert Here" test-drive or marketing event?

Edited October 22, 2009 by The O.C.

[Drew Dowdell]

I know.....it just really pisses me off........it just seems like the more things change (great products) the more they stay the same (same arrogant, "it's not my fault" attitude, etc.)

I mean jeezus.....Ford was out front with this whole Fiesta test-drive event.....(cool little car, btw) but where was the new "LaCrosse/Equinox/Pick Your New GM product and Insert Here" test-drive or marketing event?

It's called "60 day money back guarantee"

Actually, I wish GM would bring back the overnight test drive again....