It can be done... (2nd UPDATED w/Brochures and New In the Flesh High Resolution Photos!)

[gm4life]

I'd like one in dark gray or matte black w/ black steelies, black trim and blackout windows..

Wouldn't that be bitch'n?

[ocnblu]

um well like yah it would

[Z-06]

Yes and no.

Holden does not have the capacity for a volume-selling Chevy. That much hasn't changed.

What is different going forward is the fact that the Holden Zetas are scheduled to be brought into line with GMNA build process for the architecture. At that point, any Zeta could be built at either plant and Oshawa has gobs of capacity (especially after the W-body Impala finally dies).

So yes, it is very possible for GM to build zeta cars in volume.

Wasn't that supposed to have happened in early 2008, till the economy went in the toilet? I remember reading the leaked document after the 2007 labor contract that "Modernization" of Oshawa was on the to do list.

[A Horse With No Name]

Actually I'd prefer mine in Navy blue with dark tint on the windows...and yes the steel wheels give it a very purposeful look.

That car would look good in black, with a Buick Grand National on a trailer being towed to the drag strip.

Or perhaps towing an open trailer with a formula/open wheel type race car, also in black.

Chris

[SAmadei]

I'd like one in dark gray or matte black w/ black steelies, black trim and blackout windows..

Hmmm... I wonder what colors will be available? I suppose white/gray/silver/black will be obvious. Wouldn't it be great if you could get it in ANY Holden color? Atomic Metallic or Morpheus?

[gm4life]

Hmmm... I wonder what colors will be available? I suppose white/gray/silver/black will be obvious. Wouldn't it be great if you could get it in ANY Holden color? Atomic Metallic or Morpheus?

Generally speaking General Motors fleet vehicles come in ALOT of colors. Just looking at the special colors you can order a 2010 Impala 9C1/9C3 in is pretty amazing, in addition to all the regular 2010 colors.

[Camino LS6]

Wasn't that supposed to have happened in early 2008, till the economy went in the toilet? I remember reading the leaked document after the 2007 labor contract that "Modernization" of Oshawa was on the to do list.

Oshawa isn't the problem (it's already done).

It's Holden that has to get in line with Oshawa, which was set to happen at the first zeta refresh. As long as that's the VF cars and not a later (more complete) refresh, the two plants should be compatible for the 2012MY.

[Z-06]

Oshawa isn't the problem (it's already done).

It's Holden that has to get in line with Oshawa, which was set to happen at the first zeta refresh. As long as that's the VF cars and not a later (more complete) refresh, the two plants should be compatible for the 2012MY.

What's the holdup on Holden's front?

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

I am glad many of you are excited about this car. It is not just here interest is building. I have always been a fan of the Holdens myself. GM may be up to something. They just might be. This is an opportunity too good for GM to walk away from.

There is a report that stated the next Impala is front wheel drive. So I do not know what GM is planning.

It is just good to see so many excited about this car.

[Camino LS6]

What's the holdup on Holden's front?

I don't know that there is a holdup - the change was scheduled to happen at the first refresh way back when we were still supposed to be getting a bunch of GMNA Zetas.

As I understand it, the difference is in the build process used at the two plants. During the development of Camaro a bunch of changes to zeta were made and it was decided that Holden would adopt those changes at the first refresh since they were already building the first version of Zeta.

[Camino LS6]

I don't have a grip on all of the details, but I think it is made up of things like how robots grab components along the line, how parts flow to the line, supplier issues, and so on. It isn't things like the fact that the front subframes of Camaro and the Holden Zetas are different (they are), it is how the assembly is accomplished. Holden is set up to do it one way, and Oshawa another.

What I suspect is that aligning the two plants would have been a deadly expense since Holden was already in production with the VE at the time. So GM decided to wait for the refresh.

[gm4life]

Thanks for all the good information Camino.

[Camino LS6]

You're welcome, but that information is years old - so I don't know what may have changed.

[gm4life]

You're welcome, but that information is years old - so I don't know what may have changed.

Doesn't matter it means this car could be sold to the public, and made in North America at some point. Having said that this all good news, and it looks like I can even get one, if I want, even if its not sold to the public.

[caddycruiser]

I don't have a grip on all of the details, but I think it is made up of things like how robots grab components along the line, how parts flow to the line, supplier issues, and so on. It isn't things like the fact that the front subframes of Camaro and the Holden Zetas are different (they are), it is how the assembly is accomplished. Holden is set up to do it one way, and Oshawa another.

What I suspect is that aligning the two plants would have been a deadly expense since Holden was already in production with the VE at the time. So GM decided to wait for the refresh.

Very true. As much the same as the bones of these cars are, they're also very different and the cars themselves assembled in different ways.

Not just a coupe & sedan of the same car. For a long time, it continued to be brought up in articles sourced to Holden & otherwise that a lot of their gameplan for the current VE series was building & shipping XXX number of cars to NA, etc. As someone else pointed out to me recently, proof that isn't true is that the Caprice/Statesman based Buick Park Avenue is built in China but otherwise the same car...so the same setup could be done in any variety of NA plants.

It's not like producing the same car in different plants around the world for different markets is a new concept. I still don't understand the feasibility of a police-spec sedan being built in another country & shipped in via boat, especially when it comes to volume and pricing, but we'll see.

[Z-06]

Very true. As much the same as the bones of these cars are, they're also very different and the cars themselves assembled in different ways.

Not just a coupe & sedan of the same car. For a long time, it continued to be brought up in articles sourced to Holden & otherwise that a lot of their gameplan for the current VE series was building & shipping XXX number of cars to NA, etc. As someone else pointed out to me recently, proof that isn't true is that the Caprice/Statesman based Buick Park Avenue is built in China but otherwise the same car...so the same setup could be done in any variety of NA plants.

It's not like producing the same car in different plants around the world for different markets is a new concept. I still don't understand the feasibility of a police-spec sedan being built in another country & shipped in via boat, especially when it comes to volume and pricing, but we'll see.

I think the PA for China is built in Australia and shipped in CKD kits and assembled at the Shanghai assembly plant. So technically PA does consume some of the Aussie plant volume.

[SAmadei]

I am glad many of you are excited about this car. It is not just here interest is building. I have always been a fan of the Holdens myself. GM may be up to something. They just might be. This is an opportunity too good for GM to walk away from.

There is a report that stated the next Impala is front wheel drive. So I do not know what GM is planning.

I'm not convinced GM will do the right thing here. They'll probably instatue some BS, like the lease-only EV1, so that the police can't sell them to the public, since GM hates us. ;-)

As for the Impala... I'm convinced the next Imp will be a stretched Eps2 and FWD, as it is what "new GM (same as the old GM)" seems to think everyone wants. When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

[caddycruiser]

I think the PA for China is built in Australia and shipped in CKD kits and assembled at the Shanghai assembly plant. So technically PA does consume some of the Aussie plant volume.

Well, though I can't verify the steps, as told by a certain GM employee we have around here, "The Chinese Buick Park Avenue is a China-built version of the Holden Statesman ..." when I asked about the reality of whether the Holden sedans are kept only in Oz for building, due to the $$ plan of Holden for xx number of exports here or there, or could they be built here, Canada, etc. too.

Interested still to know specifics...and how much it would take or where, to build them over here, too.

As for the Impala... I'm convinced the next Imp will be a stretched Eps2 and FWD, as it is what "new GM (same as the old GM)" seems to think everyone wants. When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

This one is still questionable but it really does sound like the real work actually being done right now--with what is leaking, in spurts--is that the new Impala is designed and in process, on the LWB EP-II and a "unique" from the new Malibu, etc. Never have I seen news about a car like this change so much, for so long. It's a Zeta, no it's an Epsilon, no it's an Alpha, no it's getting another W-body refresh, no it's on hold, no it's RWD again, nope it's FWD with optional AWD...no...yes...no..."

Bizarre, all along as we're left with a crotchedy old fleet car from older, darker days.

Edited October 13, 2009 by caddycruiser

[gm4life]

I'm not convinced GM will do the right thing here. They'll probably instatue some BS, like the lease-only EV1, so that the police can't sell them to the public, since GM hates us. ;-)

I had heard somewhere a car (Caprice) with higher resale than a Crown Vic which are driven into the ground, because of low resale, would allow more fleet turn-over and the cars to be sold at not such a big loss. However this case could be a lease deal, but why would departments want perfectly good cars crushed when they could be re-sold by them taking some of the hurt off of getting a new car? I am nearly positive they will be around used at auctions or like new out the back door. Most departments want to buy there cruisers not lease them, right?

Edited October 12, 2009 by gm4life

[gm4life]

It's not like producing the same car in different plants around the world for different markets is a new concept. I still don't understand the feasibility of a police-spec sedan being built in another country & shipped in via boat, especially when it comes to volume and pricing, but we'll see.

Frankly I don't either.

[Camino LS6]

Volume isn't an issue for the law enforcement version, but a civilian Chevy could be.

[gm4life]

Volume isn't an issue for the law enforcement version, but a civilian Chevy could be.

I understand that but would a civilian verison add that many additional cars? I was figuring ten to twenty thousand on top of the police units. Would that little extra volume be an issue? This Caprice can be had one way or another, and don't be suprised if someone in my family or me ends up with one.

Edited October 12, 2009 by gm4life

[Camino LS6]

I understand that but would a civilian verison add that many additional cars? I was figuring ten to twenty thousand on top of the police units. Would that little extra volume be an issue? This Caprice can be had one way or another, and don't be suprised if someone in my family or me ends up with one.

Chevy tends to move serious volume with its products, I just don't see a Holden-sourced, niche approach working for Chevy as it did for Pontiac.

My guess is that we will not see Chevy Zeta sedan for the general public until it can be sourced from Oshawa.

Wouldn't be too surprised to see a non-sedan niche product or two though...

[gm4life]

Chevy tends to move serious volume with its products, I just don't see a Holden-sourced, niche approach working for Chevy as it did for Pontiac.

My guess is that we will not see Chevy Zeta sedan for the general public until it can be sourced from Oshawa.

Wouldn't be too surprised to see a non-sedan niche product or two though...

I understand and would love to see it come from Oshawa, also the niche product or two has me interested. The Caprice either way is a nice car, and almost like it as much as the Park Avenue sold in China.

[gm4life]

Thought everyone would enjoy this...

Some Brochures of the Car they don't want us to have!

Holden Brochure(s):

Holden Caprice

Holden Statesman

Chevrolet Middle East Brochure:

Chevrolet Caprice (Middle East)

Chevrolet Caprice PPV Hero Card:

2011 Chevrolet Caprice PPV Brochure

Anyways the more and more I look at this thing, I like it. Almost more than the G8, actually maybe more... The car is simple beauty.

Edited October 14, 2009 by gm4life

[ocnblu]

Cool, the Holden Caprice brochure.

[gm4life]

Cool, the Holden Caprice brochure.

Yup all so I can get all excited about a car, I am going to have a heck of a time getting my hands on...

[A Horse With No Name]

Thanks for the links, gm4life!

[gm4life]

Thanks for the links, gm4life!

No problem glad to give everyone something to drool over.

[gm4life]

2011 Chevrolet Caprice PPV Article

And now for the interesting part...

This is good, it confirms to me you can get cars with all cloth and without the "police stuff" eating up the console.

And now for the photographs...

Check out the interior without all the "police stuff", it is really nice even in just plain old cloth! (I am really liking this thing more and more!)

Anyways enjoy, as always and share your comments, I am really liking this puppy!

Edited October 19, 2009 by gm4life

[gm4life]

And two more small "cell phone" photos I found of the Caprice PPV...

[ocnblu]

Puppy? More like a Rottweiler. :AH-HA_wink:

Some mild criticism: needs more Chevy. At least it needs 3 red taillamps per side.

[SAmadei]

Puppy? More like a Rottweiler. :AH-HA_wink:

Some mild criticism: needs more Chevy. At least it needs 3 red taillamps per side.

You have to give GM credit for making the current Impala rear look a lot like the Holden Caprice, or vice versa... almost as if it would be a natural transition...

I would like to see a return to the three lamps per side.

Edited October 16, 2009 by SAmadei

[gm4life]

Puppy? More like a Rottweiler. :AH-HA_wink:

Some mild criticism: needs more Chevy. At least it needs 3 red taillamps per side.

Okay your right Rottweiler. Three tail lamps would be cool but whatever way it comes I will be happy.

[gm4life]

You have to give GM credit for making the current Impala rear look a lot like the Holden Caprice, or vice versa... almost as if it would be a natural transition...

Exactly kill the current Impala after this year and sell this sucker.

[gm4life]

Crunched some numbers tonight and found it is very close in size to my Bonneville.

For comparison my 2005 Bonneville SLE (3.8L L36 V6)

Height- 1438mm

Width- 1885mm

Length- 5146mm

Weight- 1668kg

Wheelbase- 2850mm

2010 Holden Statesman (6.0L L76 V8)

Height- 1480mm

Width- 1899mm

Length- 5160mm

Weight- 1884kg

Wheelbase- 3009mm

I was just wondering how huge this thing actually is, and this means it will fit in a garage no problem!

Edited October 17, 2009 by gm4life

[SAmadei]

Crunched some numbers tonight and found it is very close in size to my Bonneville.

Damn... 3 inches taller than my '99 Bonne. Wish the new stuff wasn't so tall.

[ocnblu]

It's almost like a return to pre-'59 at Ford and GM, and pre-'57 at Chrysler, before the longer-lower-wider credo took hold.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Yeah, it's very evident when you park a new 2010 Camaro next to a 2002 Camaro - the old Camaro is dwarfed by the new one!

[SAmadei]

Yeah, it's very evident when you park a new 2010 Camaro next to a 2002 Camaro - the old Camaro is dwarfed by the new one!

Even worse is the Challenger... parked new to old, the old one looks so graceful and svelte... the other a stubby, slabsided, overweight lump. (Yeah, yeah, I LIKE the new Challenger!)

Tip to new Challenger owners... don't park near old Challengers.

[gm4life]

Damn... 3 inches taller than my '99 Bonne. Wish the new stuff wasn't so tall.

I know but I hardly have enough headroom in mine without a sunroof. So the extra space is welcome. It is a big car but not nearly as big as I feared. I just needed something to "judge it" by thats why I did the comparo.

[ocnblu]

I'm sure Prius and Tundra drivers think it is huge and wasteful, like 4 city blocks long.

[SAmadei]

I know but I hardly have enough headroom in mine without a sunroof. So the extra space is welcome. It is a big car but not nearly as big as I feared. I just needed something to "judge it" by thats why I did the comparo.

But, from my experience, it doesn't translate into headroom... I fit in the '99 Bonne, but the '04 Grand Prix (1.5 inches taller) and G8 (2.5 inches taller), I have to recline the seat to fit... plus I have to do a limbo to get in and out without removing the top of my head. Its hurting my neck just thinking about it. Granted, my height is all in the torso, though.

And sunroofs are right out for me, as well... I need that space.

[ocnblu]

I guess the hip point is rising faster than the overall height then?

[gm4life]

I'm sure Prius and Tundra drivers think it is huge and wasteful, like 4 city blocks long.

Well I hate to say it Turd drivers have NO room to talk. A Caprice will get way better fuel economy therefore having a smaller carbon footprint.

And for the Prius drivers, let just not go there.

[Robert Hall]

Yeah, it's very evident when you park a new 2010 Camaro next to a 2002 Camaro - the old Camaro is dwarfed by the new one!

I think a big part of the height difference today are the taller tires....17-20 inch tires are a lot taller than the 14-16 inch tires of old. Like w/ the Challenger--it had tiny 14 or 15 inch wheels in 1970, 20 inch today. Of course, the body is more slab sided and thicker as well.

Edited October 19, 2009 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[gm4life]

But, from my experience, it doesn't translate into headroom... I fit in the '99 Bonne, but the '04 Grand Prix (1.5 inches taller) and G8 (2.5 inches taller), I have to recline the seat to fit... plus I have to do a limbo to get in and out without removing the top of my head. Its hurting my neck just thinking about it. Granted, my height is all in the torso, though.

And sunroofs are right out for me, as well... I need that space.

I understand what your saying, but I fit like a glove in my 2005 SLE and if I was over another inch or two taller it would not work for me. I am just happy on "paper" it should have some extra headroom. I fit good in a G8 better than I did in my '05 at least. Extra height doesn't automatically mean extra room.

Edited October 20, 2009 by gm4life

[cletus8269]

wonder what lengths a t6060 swap would take...

[gm4life]

wonder what lengths a t6060 swap would take...

That would be interesting to find out as well.

[gm4life]

The 2005 SLE has an oil change and winter check over this Friday. I will have some more time to shoot with the salesman so I hopefully will know more, and so will he.