GM - Saturn - Penske deal is DEAD!

[Drew Dowdell]

GM - Saturn - Penske deal is DEAD!

Today we learned that Penske Automotive Group (PAG) has decided to terminate discussions with General Motors to acquire Saturn. This is very disappointing news and comes after months of hard work by hundreds of dedicated employees and Saturn retailers who tried to make the new Saturn a reality. PAG's announcement explained that their decision was not based on interactions with GM or Saturn retailers; rather it was because of the inability to source new products beyond what it had asked GM to build on contract.
As a result of PAG's decision, we will be winding down the Saturn brand and dealership network, in accordance with the wind-down agreements that Saturn dealers recently signed with GM. Pursuant to the terms of those agreements, the wind down process will be determined and communicated shortly.

Saturn customers and owners will continue to be able to purchase and have their vehicles serviced at Saturn retailers during this process. Once the wind down is complete, Saturn owners will still be able to have their vehicles serviced at other GM dealerships. We will be communicating with our customers very soon to explain the next steps in this process.

Today's disappointing news comes at a time when we'd hoped for a successful launch of the Saturn brand into a new chapter. We will be working closely with our dealers to ensure Saturn customers are cared for as we transition them to other GM dealers in the months ahead. I'd also like to thank every GM employee and Saturn retailer who worked so hard to try to make this new beginning happen for Saturn.

GM - Penske Deal is Dead

[the_yellow_dart]

Oldsmobile is dead. Long live Saturn.

Saturn is dead. Long live... um, Chevy?

[Justin Bimmer]

wow

I guess penske won't be running saturns in his NASCAR program.

[Robert Hall]

Wow... and isn't the HUMMER sale in trouble also?

[Z-06]

That leaves Pontiac

[aaaantoine]

Doh!

...I guess it's too late for someone else to buy Saturn at this point.

Edited September 30, 2009 by aaaantoine

[Cadillacfan]

Wow, I feel really bad for all those Saturn dealers who were patiently waiting for Penske to take over. Now they're all going to be unemployed by the end of the year especially at a time where the automotive market is in such chaos.

I hope some other foreign automaker looking to set up shop in the US will step in at the last moment at least so all those jobs will be saved... but I'm not holding my breath.

[balthazar]

I still think it was moreso 'too much for Penske to chew' than future product worries. Something doesn't ring straight-up for me here... and I doubted the potential success of the whole thing from the start.

[A Horse With No Name]

I still think it was moreso 'too much for Penske to chew' than future product worries. Something doesn't ring straight-up for me here... and I doubted the potential success of the whole thing from the start.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Wow...sad...and sorry to see this happen to our local Saturn retailers.

Chris

[Chicagoland]

Sourcing cars from Renault-Samsung was dubious, and how could Renault compete with itself [Nissan]?

So, Roger Smith's 'pie in the sky' is finally put down. And all the money spent on the "Saturn Project" could have helped the rest of GM since 1985!!!

[PurdueGuy]

Sourcing cars from Renault-Samsung was dubious, and how could Renault compete with itself [Nissan]?

So, Roger Smith's 'pie in the sky' is finally put down. And all the money spent on the "Saturn Project" could have helped the rest of GM since 1985!!!

Or GM could have not squandered what Saturn could have been, and may have been better off today than it is. It's all too easy to guess at what could have been.

[Camino LS6]

Sourcing cars from Renault-Samsung was dubious, and how could Renault compete with itself [Nissan]?

So, Roger Smith's 'pie in the sky' is finally put down. And all the money spent on the "Saturn Project" could have helped the rest of GM since 1985!!!

This might be a first, but I'm with you.

[ocnblu]

Meh. I predict about 1/100th of the outcry for Saturn compared to what they did to Pontiac.

A misappropriation of funds from the start.

And now all those jobs lost at the retail level. That is the only thing that burns me.

[vt_hokie]

I'll just miss the dent resistant plastic body panels, but those were gone a while ago anyway! To me, Saturn died when Spring Hill built, polymer clad vehicles stopped showing up at the dealers!

[Intrepidation]

Tha sucks, looks like most g GM's non core brands won't be surviving.

[Chicagoland]

I think the Ion's whole design turned off Saturn buyers more than just dropping plastic panels! It was a mess.

I'd say Ion is top of the 'What killed Saturn?' list, next is the L cars, and then the expensive SUV's.

[fightingbee]

RIP Saturn, although it really wasn't quite the same to me since the plastic body panels and Spring Hill, TN plant were "rethought". I feel most for my former co-workers at my Saturn retailer which have been just barely hanging on for months now.

So, I have a Saturn and an Oldsmobile in the driveway right now. Should I try being a Toyota buyer for a while just in case i'm some kinda car brand jinx?

Edited October 1, 2009 by fightingbee

[Camino LS6]

RIP Saturn, although it really wasn't quite the same to me since the plastic body panels and Spring Hill, TN plant were "rethought".

So, I have a Saturn and an Oldsmobile in the driveway right now. Should I try being a Toyota buyer for a while just in case i'm some kinda car brand jinx?

I don't know, they seem to be screwing-up without your help lately.

[hyperv6]

I still think it was moreso 'too much for Penske to chew' than future product worries. Something doesn't ring straight-up for me here... and I doubted the potential success of the whole thing from the start.

That wa smy thought.

I wonder how the slow auto market may have played into this. Cars sales are down to the point even the top sellers like Toyota are hurting. Even for Roger Penske it would have been difficult to bring Saturn back from the dead in this market. At this point I not sure how soon it will recover.

I still think one of the makers from China may have an interest in going to the owners of the Saturn dealers and setting up shop in their stores. It is a ready made dealer network with nice stores and a trained staff.

I always wondered where Roger would get his non GM cars. Nothing ever looked solid in the deals we were told about.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I feel sorry for the dealers who invested millions of dollars into their Saturn dealerships and for the nearly 13,000 people who will eventually lose their jobs. Also for my uncle who was a very loyal Saturn customer ...

[Camino LS6]

I feel sorry for the dealers who invested millions of dollars into their Saturn dealerships and for the nearly 13,000 people who will eventually lose their jobs. Also for my uncle who was a very loyal Saturn customer ...

I have to agree on those points, but I hope Roger Smith is redlining in his grave (is he dead yet?)

Rotten SOB set this whole mess in motion.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I have to agree on those points, but I hope Roger Smith is redlining in his grave (is he dead yet?)

Rotten SOB set this whole mess in motion.

Well you know my feelings on that ... And yes he is ...

Edited October 1, 2009 by PCS

[smk4565]

I was surprised Penske wanted Saturn in the first place. I see this as good news, it is less competition for Chevy.

[Robert Hall]

I think the Ion's whole design turned off Saturn buyers more than just dropping plastic panels! It was a mess.

I'd say Ion is top of the 'What killed Saturn?' list, next is the L cars, and then the expensive SUV's.

Yeah...the hideously styled, cheap and nasty interior and wierd exterior styling didn't help the Ion. The Astra was a superior car, but too late.

[regfootball]

yet you can still buy mitsubishis

buick lives, saturn and pontiac do not.

for me, i wanted to buy an astra. i assume there is none new left to pick from, i wonder, astras, auras, outlooks, does resale and used values TANK now?

[thedriver]

And when I need to get my Saturn repaired where will I go? You would think any GM dealer, but they do not have access to Saturn parts catalogs/prices. If they wind this down wrong it will cost even more customers. . .

[gmcbob]

I hope that if I buy another GM car in the future, they'll compensate me somehow for the hit I'm going to take on the resale value on my Vue. I was kind of hoping that by Penske keeping Saturn alive, it would have helped the resale value a little bit.

Oh well. Whatever.

[turbo200]

I hope that if I buy another GM car in the future, they'll compensate me somehow for the hit I'm going to take on the resale value on my Vue. I was kind of hoping that by Penske keeping Saturn alive, it would have helped the resale value a little bit.

Oh well. Whatever.

i say you write bob lutz and e-mail suggestion. for the coming future, GM can send Saturn consumers a $4,000 voucher to compensate for the brand dying and having to take a loss on resale. biting on that kind of money might cost GM in the short term, but if they can reel those buyers into only the new GM models, specifically cruze, malibu, or equinox, then chevy could buy into newly loyal buyers.

bottom line: handling current saturn and pontiac buyers should be top priority. sad day for saturn retailers and employees.

[Drew Dowdell]

It's a shame GM couldn't sell Saturn as a package with Saab.

[PurdueGuy]

Meh. I predict about 1/100th of the outcry for Saturn compared to what they did to Pontiac.

I expect the same, but mostly because GM already ran off most Saturn enthusiasts from the brand.If this was 5-10 years go, there would be plenty of fans throwing a fit. As-is, half the Saturn enthusiasts I know are saying "good riddance" because they don't like what the brand has become, and are tired of watching GM trample what it was and could have been. Though I bet there are plenty of people with similar sentiment for Pontiac's death.

[daves87rs]

Well, this sucks...

My thought is that (hopefully) many of those Saturn employees will go to other dealerships, since I find that most of the other dealerships seem to know little about Saturn.....

I feel bad for the Astra owners....good luck.....

At least there is not as many Hummer dealerships to phase out......

[daves87rs]

It's a shame GM couldn't sell Saturn as a package with Saab.

And thrown in Hummer too...

[daves87rs]

Yeah...the hideously styled, cheap and nasty interior and wierd exterior styling didn't help the Ion. The Astra was a superior car, but too late.

The looks of of the Ion didn't scare away the customer....that car was a piece of crap ALL the way around.....

When I've seen people trade their Ion in for a Cavalier, it kinda says something....

[daves87rs]

I still think it was moreso 'too much for Penske to chew' than future product worries. Something doesn't ring straight-up for me here... and I doubted the potential success of the whole thing from the start.

+1

[daves87rs]

Sourcing cars from Renault-Samsung was dubious, and how could Renault compete with itself [Nissan]?

So, Roger Smith's 'pie in the sky' is finally put down. And all the money spent on the "Saturn Project" could have helped the rest of GM since 1985!!!

Amen!

Granted, I'll miss those little S-series cars....

[pow]

yet you can still buy mitsubishis

buick lives, saturn and pontiac do not.

for me, i wanted to buy an astra. i assume there is none new left to pick from, i wonder, astras, auras, outlooks, does resale and used values TANK now?

A "new" 2008 Astra, if discounted enough, would be a great buy. Swap the Saturn badge and grill with some Opel blitz ones.

[regfootball]

A "new" 2008 Astra, if discounted enough, would be a great buy. Swap the Saturn badge and grill with some Opel blitz ones.

local dealer told me they would sell me a loaded 3 dr astra last saturday, their last one. msrp 20500, for 14999. i was going to check and see if i could use my GM card points all of them. but i am not in a position to follow through. maybe their will be a couple available with a similar price in the next few months. maybe used prices will drop like a rock too. problem is in 2-3 years when i would want to sell it it would be worth even that much less.

[GMTruckGuy74]

i say you write bob lutz and e-mail suggestion. for the coming future, GM can send Saturn consumers a $4,000 voucher to compensate for the brand dying and having to take a loss on resale. biting on that kind of money might cost GM in the short term, but if they can reel those buyers into only the new GM models, specifically cruze, malibu, or equinox, then chevy could buy into newly loyal buyers.

bottom line: handling current saturn and pontiac buyers should be top priority. sad day for saturn retailers and employees.

Well, I have roughly 47 days left with my '07 Saturn AURA XE, it's GMAC SmartLease contract is due to end on November 17. If GM were to issue such a voucher, including to those that were current Saturn leasees, then I would just have to consider a brand new GM vehicle - I'd be a fool not to

[Cmicasa the Great]

So What??? The Saturn deal is supposedly DEAD, duly noting that it was the fact that Penske was unable to obtain cars for the brand from the Koreans after GM stopped supplying them. Confirming what the WSJ was saying. I saw this whole deal as bullcrap anyway considering GM would be essentially competing with the newly owned Penske Saturn initially with its own sourced vehicles and then with Samsung sourced ones.

Personally I am of the opinion that we simply don't need anymore brands here in the U.S. as it is already over saturated. Ideally GM will see that the peanuts that they were getting for Saturn would not even remotely make up for the money that they could potentially lose if Penske's Saturn introduced yet another brand into the U.S. market. I simply don't see the need for anymore IMPORTS being brought into our market. It's ridiculous to believe that this is cool just to say that the brand was saved. Penske would have gotten the Saturn brand for about $100-$200 Million. CHUMP CHANGE in fact, with Fritz's belief that he is getting rid of more of a loss than he could possibly incur if they have to compete with another brand. When all is said and done.. U will have Hummer and Saturn sold for a combined amount less than $500 Million. I hate seeing more Asians entering into this market. It makes me kinda sick.. especially the Hummer one.

As I said before... my real wish is that the Hummer deal falls thru as well, leading GM to merge it with GMC. It was a very profitable brand and doesn't actually need it's name to do what it was doing. The Hummer name could be made into a Trim level in line with the Denali one. Denali being the upper-level near lux version of GMC and the Hummer line being the off-road part of the Division. OR take the opportunity for GMC to actually differentiate itself even further from Chevy. Certainly U would keep the more moderate vehicles as they appeal to the mainstream buyers.. but why not merge the H2, H3, H3T, and that gorgeous Hx (H4) into the line-up of GMC calling them all the Denali trim level. Just replace the HUMMER insignia with GMC. Why in the world would GM want to sell this brand to another Foreign entity just to make a quick buck? How is this gonna pose competition for the GMC Brand??? Why did they not just merge the two brands and forgo the minuscule possible $100 Million-200 million? That amount is less than last year's gross made on the brand... In this whole shake up, we have now a situation where we witness two more automakers entering into the U.S. market.. a market that is as diluted as any in the world with exception to China.

Don't get me wrong.. I am still in love with the idea of a 4 core Brand GM. But any consideration of selling these "bad brands" off to the highest bidder kinda makes me sick.. and makes me seriously in favor of simply killing them altogether.

Saturn Should have been the "New Olds" Division called "Aurora" and Hummer should have been simply called GMC's "Denali" H2, H3, H... etc.

Saturn, an Experiment that should have never been implemented in the first place, was in my opinion bound to fail. It was not even widely known to be American, let alone apart of GM, yet despite all of that, a a cult following of "nice people" it still continued to never truly contribute to the bottom line of it's encouraging parent.

Keep in mind that when GM green-lighted the Saturn brand in 1985 GM already had Chevy, Buick, Olds, Pontiac, and Cadillac. Roger Smith, in all his wisdom , damn idiot , created the brand to combat the growing menaces from Japan... instead of just revamping one of the brands already under his charge... like OOOOOH... Oldsmobile. That brand could have certainly been the one to get the Saturn treatment, as it was in line to be revamped anyway in just 5 short years.

Yup... the Olds revamp was already being put into motion in 1990. The Aurora, Intrigue, and Alero were not just pulled outta the air in 1995. Ironically.. they all looked like more substantial Saturns of the time than anything else (See Below). Oldsmobile’s general manager even suggested renaming the brand "Aurora." Of course that didn't go over well and in the end, he just left the name off the Intrigues and Aleros, or rather made the Olds name so small U would barely notice it there.

The Same thoughts go out to Hummer... and Ricky Boy not simply making it a part of GMC from the start. IN the year 2000... there was the Terradyne. A Hummer if I've ever seen one. :AH-HA_wink:

[smk4565]

And when I need to get my Saturn repaired where will I go? You would think any GM dealer, but they do not have access to Saturn parts catalogs/prices. If they wind this down wrong it will cost even more customers. . .

Go to a Chevy dealer. Outlook is a mechanical twin to the Traverse, Aura is a mechanical twin to the Malibu, Vue is similar to the Equinox's platform, and has the same engines as the Malibu, Sky has the same engines as the Cobalt. Only the Astra had a unique engine, but it is still an ecotec on a Delta platform.

Or go to auto parts stores, the parts there are often much cheaper than what the dealer will sell it for.

[6t5frlane]

This is very sad. GM is like a tree thats just keeps losing it's branches. Just last week I saw that Saturn commercial with the guy pitching the fact that Saturn had introduced 5 new models recently. Who would buy one now? Actually seeing all this would scare me away from any GM product and I suspect this will happen. Maybe in the end it will make GM a much smaller player and more profitable but many people may never come back to the General I'm afraid

[GMTruckGuy74]

Cmicasa the Great, that was a good post and I agree with many of your thoughts. GM should have reinvented Oldsmobile with Saturn, even if it was a Chevrolet/GEO-like set-up at first. And I agree 100% with you that HUMMER should have been grouped with GMC Truck dealers from the get-go. The two HUMMER dealers I know of (Hummer of Turnersville <south NJ> and Perrine Hummer <central NJ>) are grouped with other GM brands/divisions at their dealerships. While I think the Denali line should remain luxury-oriented, I'd have no problem with a Hummer line being off-road oriented. And not even just souped up versions of existing GMC models like the current Denalis, the Hummer line could still have been the H2, H3, and H3T that GM gave us anyway with the badge "Hummer, by GMC". And being a line added to an exisiting dealership network could have justified lower sales numbers (but at higher profits). It is truly a shame that GM wants to abandon this brand, as the Hx/H4) would have been a sweet little truck to own for many people (think of a grown-up Wrangler fighter) - I hope the sale falls through and GM wise's up and keeps the license alive for a later date. I do realize that this is not the time for niche markets, as that isn't the answer to GM's problems for cash flow.

[Chicagoland]

Someone wondered about getting Saturn parts at other GM shops. Well, the S series is old enough that junkyards have plenty to pick over. L Series? SOL, those are getting crushed as fast as Chevy Vegas did.

But Saturns from past 4 years share many parts with Chevy/GMC/Buick [Aura, Vue, Outlook, Relay] or can be obtained from Opel [Astra].

Edited October 1, 2009 by Chicagoland

[daves87rs]

Someone wondered about getting Saturn parts at other GM shops. Well, the S series is old enough that junkyards have plenty to pick over. L Series? SOL, those are getting crushed as fast as Chevy Vegas did.

But Saturns from past 4 years share many parts with Chevy/GMC/Buick

True.....granted, I still see plenty of S-series still going out there....

[thedriver]

Go to a Chevy dealer. Outlook is a mechanical twin to the Traverse, Aura is a mechanical twin to the Malibu, Vue is similar to the Equinox's platform, and has the same engines as the Malibu, Sky has the same engines as the Cobalt. Only the Astra had a unique engine, but it is still an ecotec on a Delta platform.

Or go to auto parts stores, the parts there are often much cheaper than what the dealer will sell it for.

I work for a Buick/GMC dealer in the parts department. You would be surprised how hard it is for us to work on Saturns, as far as GM is concerned they might as well be Fords. Everything had to go through the Saturn dealers. We don't have this kind of trouble with any other line, even Cadillac and Hummer...

[G. David Felt]

As has been stated, sad that GM wasted so much money on Saturn when they could have focused on their core brands way back then and had something even better today. Over all the Saturn line just never had any passion nor did it stir anything in me to want to go out and buy one of their auto's.

Sad to see so many loose jobs and those that built dealerships with millions of dollars loose out, yet better to do it sooner and get it over than to wait and drag things out.

Just proves our depression is far from over here in the US.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Cmicasa the Great, that was a good post and I agree with many of your thoughts. GM should have reinvented Oldsmobile with Saturn, even if it was a Chevrolet/GEO-like set-up at first. And I agree 100% with you that HUMMER should have been grouped with GMC Truck dealers from the get-go. The two HUMMER dealers I know of (Hummer of Turnersville <south NJ> and Perrine Hummer <central NJ>) are grouped with other GM brands/divisions at their dealerships. While I think the Denali line should remain luxury-oriented, I'd have no problem with a Hummer line being off-road oriented. And not even just souped up versions of existing GMC models like the current Denalis, the Hummer line could still have been the H2, H3, and H3T that GM gave us anyway with the badge "Hummer, by GMC". And being a line added to an exisiting dealership network could have justified lower sales numbers (but at higher profits). It is truly a shame that GM wants to abandon this brand, as the Hx/H4) would have been a sweet little truck to own for many people (think of a grown-up Wrangler fighter) - I hope the sale falls through and GM wise's up and keeps the license alive for a later date. I do realize that this is not the time for niche markets, as that isn't the answer to GM's problems for cash flow.

Thanx :AH-HA_wink:

[FloydHendershot]

Thought we had a live one here... T'is a shame. Really. Not for Penske or Gm but everyone else. Nice idea but this is how it's gonna be until UNICEF gets into the busines of selling cars.

[balthazar]

Cmicasa the Great - >>"Personally I am of the opinion that we simply don't need anymore brands here in the U.S. as it is already over saturated. Ideally GM will see that the peanuts that they were getting for Saturn would not even remotely make up for the money that they could potentially lose if Penske's Saturn introduced yet another brand into the U.S. market. I simply don't see the need for anymore IMPORTS being brought into our market. It's ridiculous to believe that this is cool just to say that the brand was saved. Penske would have gotten the Saturn brand for about $100-$200 Million. CHUMP CHANGE in fact, with Fritz's belief that he is getting rid of more of a loss than he could possibly incur if they have to compete with another brand."<<

AGREED.

>>"As I said before... my real wish is that the Hummer deal falls thru as well, leading GM to merge it with GMC. It was a very profitable brand and doesn't actually need it's name to do what it was doing. The Hummer name could be made into a Trim level in line with the Denali one. Denali being the upper-level near lux version of GMC and the Hummer line being the off-road part of the Division."<<

Makes excellent sense, would love to see it !

[Camino LS6]

I have to agree as well, and think that the Hummer HX is one of GM's most brilliant product ideas in recent memory.

I'd love to see a production version under the GMC banner.