~ three Buicks

[Sixty8panther]

Time for some brutal honesty.




It's not secret that I'm dissapointed with the Buick lineup as of late. I personally think it sucks. The "fresh" names are lame, the two sedan, one SUV and pair of crossovers is completely retarded & the even worse is the lack of the following:


- Affordable sedan (Century)

- Personal Luxury 'Coupe' (2dr Reagal)

- RWD cars (Regal )

- Bold Styling (last gen Riviera or Park Ave Ultra)

- Supercharging or turbocharging, it used to be a Buick trademark

- Names that have their roots in Buick history not "masturbation" in French.


And the list goes on. But I'd like to take this opportunity to share with you my opinion on the last three nails in the coffin of the brand we used to know and love. It's a saad state of affairs that Buick is making the exact same damn mistakes that Olds made in the late 90s. :(





1991-1996 Roadmaster (both sedan & wagon)

















The last true Buick in terms of blatant originality, personal luxury, bold styling & instant collectability: 1995-1999 Riviera.













1997-2005 Park Ave. (esp. the ultra) ...the last Tri-Shield production car GM deserved to be proud of. IMHO.

Edited December 30, 2005 by Sixty8panther

[z28luvr01]

Sly, you may be right with the rest of Buick's lineup (good but not great), but give the Lucerne a chance. Pictures do not do it justice. I saw a silver CXL in a Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealership the Sunday before Christmas, and it was nothing short of striking. It blows away the LeSabre/Park Avenue that came before it in every capacity. Plus it's quite a bargain, as you can get the silky-smooth Northstar engine for a tad over $30K. A base V8 Lucerne would be my top choice for a sedan.

[razoredge]

I have no problem with the Lacrosse, the Regal/Century body was on market long enough and was a toned down Riviera in most of its styling. In some respect the Lacrosse still retains old styling but we all know the story behind it and theres just nothing that can be done. Then there is the areas that it is better than previous Regal/Century.

I think the Lucerne is very nice and not as "retirement" oriented as the PA. Thing that concerns me is the 00 Aurora was same basic car and far more exciting and that did not work (supposedly, how would we know?). Perhaps the better pricing of the Lucerne will help.

Im not into the SUV's but many are, so it may be a fair compromise.

The 8th generation Riviera was great but sold poorly so what are you going to do. Believe it or not, the Riviera that I do not like, the 6th generation was the most successful, go figure. It would not be successful today.

Roadmaster had funeral parlor writtin all over it, it too would not be successful today.

Turbo & Supercharged ? Well GM has had a long history of unbelievable wrong calls. I believe this is one of them. To me the castration of Buick is appauling. Sometime and I forget the exact story but some "brass" at either GM or Buick said something along the lines of "we are not going to be a boyracer brand ever again". I think this pertained to the Turbo Regal and T type & GS lines, so its amazing what part of ones history they will be ashamed of. Myself Im ashamed of the 91/92-2000 & 2000-2004 LeSabre/Park Avenue, sensible, conservative, retirement approach. Its fine as long as thats not all you have. Still we must remind ourselfs the last 2 dr. LeSabres & PA sold very very slowly, yet almost everyone Ive ever known has high regards of the 2dr. LeSabres of 86-91. Perhaps not enough new car buyers paid attention.

Much has changed drastically for GM and with downsizing of the lines and more specific market targets we have to accept how the divisions are focused and appointed. Still, however we must hope Buick gets more breakthrough styling and exciting performance as well as a extreme performance personal luxury machine named Riviera and no other Rose will do.

[XP715]

We really DO need another Riviera; my '96 has 131,000 on it so far and there will come a day where the old girl will have to be retired from daily service and put on my to-do list of things to restore at some point (I'm NEVER getting rid of it). As far as a replacement goes, I'd like to find the nicest, lowest mileage '97-'99 Light Jadestone Metallic one with all the toys I can, but that too will get worn out and then where will I be? I've considered the '05 Buick Park Avenue Ultra, but still, cars wear out. Why is it so hard for General Motors to build a product that doesn't suck today? Nothing offerred right now excites me one bit. As far as Buick is concerned, I'm trying to be optimistic about the Lucerne, but if after all the years and millions upon millions of dollars of research and development that went into the damn thing the biggest selling point they use is the fact that the car has heated washer fluid, that's pretty sad. Maybe they'll make more commercials where they tell you how neat the shifter knob is. Cold washer fluid's worked fine for all these years, so maybe Buick should instead be concentrating their energy on building something exciting again and not just trying to fill out the lineup by doing dumb shit like slapping a tri-shield on a Pontiac Montana. If somebody's in the market for a minivan, I seriously doubt Buick is the first marque that pops into their head. Edited December 30, 2005 by XP715

[Sixty8panther]

If the Lacrosse looked like the concept I'd buy one even if it was FWD and four cylinder. Geeezus look at this thing it's sleek, sexy, swoopy, not retro but has Buick DNA infused into every anlge.

I remember my best friend at the time Mike looking over this car at the Autoshow and just bewildered. I remember him saying it looked sexier than a Corvette or something to that effect. To me it looked like a concours d'elegance restored 1949 Roadmaster made love to a Porsche concept car and this appeared nine months later. Mike was blown away by it, and he was driving a souped up VW Corrado SCCA-style G60 and was a big fan of Porsche & BMW. (he's also Slovakian so he's inot the Euro-tuners)

God now this is a B U I C K





Z28: Yes I should give the Lucerne a try but the 2002 Nissan Maxima front end and tall proportions are enough to make me very skeptical about it's Buick DNA. I simply do not see a old Gentleman with a 100,000 mile Park Ave finding the Lucerne at a dealership and desiring it.



Razor: It's been ten years since the Roadmaster was axed I think styligng is not a legitimate gripe... look at the "conservative" cars GM has made since then? The Park Ave looked awsome IMO.... that car could have been made on top of the B-body frame... or another attractive but very traditional car. The B-dobys were great cars and are still missed by many. A V8 powered RWD sedan with conservative styling is what Buick is all about. Look at the 1996 Buick Lineup:

Skylark
Century
Regal
LeSabre
Park Ave
Roadmaster
Riviera

That's a Buick lineup not two cars pretending to have Lexus styling and a bunch of SUVs/SUV wannabes.






This thing makes a Mercedes S-class or E-class look like pile of monkey $hit.

[Flybrian]

I really don't see why you keep dumping on the Rendezvous. Its a very credible vehicle and remarkably Buick in execution and purpose - a luxurious, rather classy family vehicle. Consider it the classic Buick wagon adapted for today's world.

I simply do not see a old Gentleman with a 100,000 mile Park Ave finding the Lucerne at a dealership and desiring it.

Despite it being the same car with a V8, trimmer dimensions, more gadgets, and a more affordable price?

I love the Park Ave - everyone here should know that - but sweet Jesus was it overpriced...$40,000 for an Ultra to start...$44,610 loaded? No sir, no sir, no sir. Consider a similar Bonneville SSEi at $35,000 and I can do without RainSense. How about a V8 GXP for $38,780 and the Northstar V8 will make me forget about automatic wipers. A Lucerne CXS clears out at just under $40,000 with most of what the Park Ave Ultra had and more (Magnetic Suspension, V8, curtain airbags, etc).

[XP715]

I really don't see why you keep dumping on the Rendezvous. Its a very credible vehicle and remarkably Buick in execution and purpose - a luxurious, rather classy family vehicle. Consider it the classic Buick wagon adapted for today's world.

[post="65235"][/post]

Man, I like you but where do you get some of this stuff? You talk like an Ovaltine commercial sounds.



Somehow I don't see this handsome 1949 Roadmaster Estate Wagon OR any of the acres-large Electra Estates of the 70's and 80's when I look at a Rendezvous; all I see is a first try, a rough draft, a dress rehearsal, call it what you want, for something like a Lexus RX330 or a BMW X5. Edited December 30, 2005 by XP715

[z28luvr01]

Whether you like the 'vous or not, you can't deny that Buick would be in much worse shape had it not done as well as it has, especially given it's humble mechanicals and close relationship to the not-very-well-liked Aztek. I anxiously await the Enclave, since it looks to take the Rendezvous formula and turn it up a few notches.

[Flybrian]

You're looking at design and size, I'm looking at purpose. The Rendezvous continues the Buick tradition of offering a premium but affordable family vehicle and does it very, very well as evidenced by first-year sales almost outpacing the RX300 and Acura MDX during certain months. An incredible achievement considering its patchwork underpinnings.

Like it or not, it is a very Buick achievement. And as Z said, Buick would be in even greater distress without it.

[The O.C.]

I really don't see why you keep dumping on the Rendezvous. Its a very credible vehicle and remarkably Buick in execution and purpose - a luxurious, rather classy family vehicle. Consider it the classic Buick wagon adapted for today's world.

[post="65235"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'll chime in on the Rendezvous debate......

To me, Rendezvous signals the "old" GM to me....(whereas something like Lucerne, etc., is alot closer to what I'd like to see in a "new" GM.)

I had one as a rental recently, and considered it quite nasty, unfortunately.

To me, it DID drive like a minivan, with a floaty ride on the freeway, tipsy feel (even for an "SUV") in the corners, and a platform that felt less-than-solid going over bumps.

The V6 performed better than I expected (given the road test numbers I've seen) but it was GM-pushrod-V6-typical rough, thrashy, and noisy.

The exterior design looks like what it is.....an SUV that has been designed to fit over minivan architecture

The interior quality and fit-and-finish was really pretty crappy......cheap silver plastic on the center stack, for example. However, the gauges were TOTALLY classy and a nice touch (even if they are a bit harder to read due to the "aqua" color on silver-ish backgrounds.

The very next week, I had a Toyota Highlander......and what a FAR classier, tighter, higher-quality-feeling vehicle all around....(even if it is a bit bland looking.)

[The O.C.]

You're looking at design and size, I'm looking at purpose. The Rendezvous continues the Buick tradition of offering a premium but affordable family vehicle and does it very, very well as evidenced by first-year sales almost outpacing the RX300 and Acura MDX during certain months. An incredible achievement considering its patchwork underpinnings.

Like it or not, it is a very Buick achievement. And as Z said, Buick would be in even greater distress without it.

[post="65240"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Before quoting that Rendezvous sales performance (versus Lexus and Acura) don't forget to consider the significant number of rental fleet units included in Rendezvous' numbers (a la...they are ALL over the place everytime I travel and rent cars.)

How much HAS that helped Buick? We all know the profit potential (or lack thereof) of fleet/rental units to the division and/or the dealer. All those do is keep the assembly plants cranking....

[Mike The Canadian]

bah i'm going to miss the century nameplate...thats why i'm going to buy my parents and keep it forever :) even though it's fwd...

[VenSeattle]

Before quoting that Rendezvous sales performance (versus Lexus and Acura) don't forget to consider the significant number of rental fleet units included in Rendezvous' numbers (a la...they are ALL over the place everytime I travel and rent cars.)

How much HAS that helped Buick?  We all know the profit potential (or lack thereof) of fleet/rental units to the division and/or the dealer.  All those do is keep the assembly plants cranking....

[post="65249"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'll chime in myself. Fly was referring to first year sales. According to the link provided in the [url="http://"""]Fleet Sales Topic[/url], only 5.01% of Rendevous sales went to Fleet in 2002 (64,517 Buick light truck sales; 3,234 of them were Fleet). So, Rendezvous' initial success (as fly pointed out) was due to retail sales, not fleet as you believe. Buick sold 11.9% of light trucks to fleet in 2003. It wasn't until the Rendezvous' 3rd year (2004) that Fleet was pushed up to 30% like it is now.

[Sixty8panther]

Okay, well at least we're having a meaningful discussion.

I agree wiht some points and not with others... I was not attacking the Randevouz specifically although I mostly agree with XP about his synopsis.

I've always liked GM's 'rough' pushrod V6s but then again I like loud engines that let you know they're working. I can however see the point of wanting a smooth and quiet motor in a division poised to take on Lexus.


Therein lies the problem!

To hell with all this "go after Lexus" crap. Get a clue GM, Lexus buyers will never ever in a million effin light years buy a Buick. Same as Acura & Lexus buyers never embraced the Aurora & Intrigue.

Here's a freekin pop-quiz for you GM:




How do you sell lots and lots of Buicks?


1. Build Cars that break all ties to tradition & hope everyone will embrace radical change.
2. Build more SUVs and Crossovers.
3. Build Cars that resemble the Japanese Mid size luxury cars like the POS ES330.
4. Build really good B U I C K S with familiar names.



I think the answer is obvious.

[NOS2006]

Rivieras were sweet.

[invertigo]

What is that hideous buick concept? It looks like a nastified 1st-gen Tiburon. :puke:

[NOS2006]

haha That's the original LaCrosse concept..

[Petra]

- Personal Luxury 'Coupe' (2dr Reagal)

[post="65170"][/post]

I agree, but that last generation Regal coupe maybe isn't the best example in the world of a great Buick:



The Rivera, the Reatta, the Regals of yore... That's what Buick should be going for.

I kind of like the path Buick is on right now. While there may not be a big, RWD flagship or a luxury coupe, I think GM has done pretty much all they can with the brand. Now that Buick will be amalgamated somewhat with GMC and Pontiac, they won't need to have a full lineup anyway, which should help them to focus more on developing better products.

Nevertheless, I give Buick 5-10 years. If they can't turn things around in that time, well, I guess we'll have to say goodbye.

[razoredge]

oh boy ! :unsure:

[Sixty8panther]

Petra: That's the point. By making less & less product (models, variety) you can only SELL less and less... A Buick lineup with only TWO cars pretty much sucks based on just that compared to seven models. Let's bunch the LeSabre/Park Ave & Regal/Century togeather for the sake of redundancy and comonality and you're still left wiht FIVE cars not two. The Terraza and Randezvous are 70% the same product too, for those about to bring up the three "trucks" Buick has. In my opinion what Petra said spells extinction for Buick before my daughter even reaches her teenage years. This is a disturbing & depressing thought. How many more divisions have to be suffocated with a pillow for the sake of some bullshit agenda like Saturn, competing with Lexus and the SUV-zation of every brand. 2005 For SUVs is what 1968 was for musclecars. Sure they're not dissapearing yet but the train has left the station.

[razoredge]

Thing is 6t8, GM is like a family with 10 kids and the old man just lost his job, theres only so much soup to go around. Granted some of the children are getting double rations and Buick is skipped on every other day, but we will save the conspiracy theorys until after Buick keels over and dies.

[Sixty8panther]

I think that's a fair annalogy but does not take into account a few major factors: - Saturn never skips a meal even though it's the Doberman, not even a kid. - By starving Buick one day it makes it more hungry the next not less. - A lot of food spoils because it's left uneaten by the parents. - There's a vegetable garden out back that is not being harvested. - The Government would gladly give them aid like foodstamps but they have yet to ASK. Edited December 31, 2005 by Sixty8panther

[ocnblu]

Did I miss the joke? Is that a real press pass for NAIAS? :huh:

[Sixty8panther]

Ocnblu: if you still are not in on the joke then PM me and I'll fill you in.