Inside the 2010 Camaro SS

[A Horse With No Name]

All of this talk is making me want a new Camaro SS more and more. I am all for bio-fuels but don't want to be forced into some hybrid or 4 banger crap box. Having said that diesel is interesting to me (like the Jetta TDI, 335d), so are lighter RWD cars. I just won't line up to buy one, at least until after I get a Camaro SS.

All I am saying is this...it is 2017 and your saying goodbye to your current beloved Impala after 230,000 miles of use and an insurance write off after someone mildly rear ends you in traffic.

You walk into your local Chevy dealer and you buy a lighter, more nimble, better quality rear wheel drive Impala with an inline six. Touque in inline six will re-arrange your insides, and it gets 42 miles per gallon day in, day out.

Oh...and your next Impala runs for 350,000 miles....

That is the diesel promise. Wouldn't that be sweet?

Chris

[Robert Hall]

All I am saying is this...it is 2017 and your saying goodbye to your current beloved Impala after 230,000 miles of use and an insurance write off after someone mildly rear ends you in traffic.

You walk into your local Chevy dealer and you buy a lighter, more nimble, better quality rear wheel drive Impala with an inline six. Touque in inline six will re-arrange your insides, and it gets 42 miles per gallon day in, day out.

Oh...and your next Impala runs for 350,000 miles....

That is the diesel promise. Wouldn't that be sweet?

Chris

Or, how about in an alternate future, GM has downsized their line--the Spark is the Aveo, the NG Aveo is badged Malibu and the 2nd gen Cruze is badged Impala, all FWD, 4cyl automatics. And the Colorado has been rebadged as the Silverado...

Rob

[ocnblu]

This is a horrible place to be spreading empty green promises and wishes.

[A Horse With No Name]

Not empty green promises...wishes maybe.

You can't blame us for wanting to be independant of foreign oil. You also can't blame us for wanting to drive cars other than Prius and Insight wannabe's for the rest of our lives.

I am just trying to be realistic-unless we make real change, real change wilol be forced upon us.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Or, how about in an alternate future, GM has downsized their line--the Spark is the Aveo, the NG Aveo is badged Malibu and the 2nd gen Cruze is badged Impala, all FWD, 4cyl automatics. And the Colorado has been rebadged as the Silverado...

Rob

The future I fear is where Saudi Arabia wants to cash in all of there $...or where the value of the $ falls and we can't buy oil.

I want my mobility, thankyouverymuchsir.

Chris

[Camino LS6]

How about this future instead:

We actually make an effort on the fuels and get the job done, widening our vehicular choices beyond where they are today.

A world in which what car you own isn't how your social responsibility is measured...

[Drew Dowdell]

Are there any diesel cars that do 0-60 in 5.5 seconds or the 1/4 mile in 13 seconds? I doubt a diesel G8 would be that quick. I wouldn't mind a diesel as a commuter car, because it still has better performance than hybrids while getting great gas mileage, but for my fun car, I just don't see diesel having as much performance as I would like.

The 2.9 diesel that was supposed to go into the CTS for Europe has 406 ft/lb of torque.

406 ft/lb of torque from a 2.9 liter..... imagine what a 3.6 liter would have..... It'd be like strapping a Saturn V rocket to the roof of the G8.

[Camino LS6]

The 2.9 diesel that was supposed to go into the CTS for Europe has 406 ft/lb of torque.

406 ft/lb of torque from a 2.9 liter..... imagine what a 3.6 liter would have..... It'd be like strapping a Saturn V rocket to the roof of the G8.

I'd really love to see the government relax the diesel requirements in a wild fit of pragmatism...

[hyperv6]

The crashing economy that will continue to decline, peak oil, the changing buyer demographic, increased competion from cars like the Hyundai Genesis, safety concerns, market saturation in the pony car segment, social pressures on GM to build more cars like the Volt, the decline of men as the main breadwinner in the home, the rise of a female buying demographic, et al.

Mostly the buying demographic of this new Camaro is 40+. This group of men is the hardest hit by the current economy and will continue to be the hardest hit. Before, middle aged white guys could ride out bad economic times. This current downturn has white guys over 40 (like me) in its crosshairs.

As this group gets older, GM will have more luck selling them a car like the Malibu or Lacrosse if they still have good jobs.

Not saying performance will go away completely...it won't...but the market will shrink and GM is smart enough to know this.

Like I said, if you wnt one, get it now.

Chris

I see the next Camaro as smaller, lighter and targeted at a little younger group. They will keep some heritage but I expect the car to break new ground in electronic features and drivetrains. In dash hard drives, internet and video screens will play to the young while power and performancw plays to the older crowd.

The price and electronics are the key to the youth market. That is something I wish they had made an option on this car. This would have sold more V6 cars alone.

Edited October 1, 2009 by hyperv6

[Oracle of Delphi]

I see the next Camaro as smaller, lighter and targeted at a little younger group. They will keep some heritage but I expect the car to break new ground in electronic features and drivetrains.

The price and electronics are the key to the youth market. That is something I wish they had made an option on this car. This would have sold more V6 cars alone.

Yeah it's called Alpha !!! :rotflmao:

[hyperv6]

Yeah it's called Alpha !!! :rotflmao:

No $ hit Sherlock

[Oracle of Delphi]

No $ hit Sherlock

I wasn't the one stating the obvious once again ...

Edited October 1, 2009 by PCS

[hyperv6]

I wasn't the one stating the obvious once again ...

No you already did that earlier today.

Edited October 1, 2009 by JamesBond
Please don't use a member's first name if they do not want you to use it. Thank You.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Not really, I leave that domain to you...

[CaddyXLR-V]

Serious question?

Almost, but not quite. While it is a very impressive car, I'm looking to move foward in performance from my GTO, not backward. The 335d does the 1/4 mile in 14.1 sec and 0-60 in 6 sec. I would prefer to have a pure sports car, even if it only gets 20mpg, and have a second car to use for commuting. And if I'm spending $44,000 or more on a car, it's going to be a Cayman or used 911 turbo.

[Drew Dowdell]

Almost, but not quite. While it is a very impressive car, I'm looking to move foward in performance from my GTO, not backward. The 335d does the 1/4 mile in 14.1 sec and 0-60 in 6 sec. I would prefer to have a pure sports car, even if it only gets 20mpg, and have a second car to use for commuting. And if I'm spending $44,000 or more on a car, it's going to be a Cayman or used 911 turbo.

I think that's more of a gearing issue with the 335d than anything else. From the numbers, it should better performance than that.

Again, the GM 2.9 litre diesel puts out roughly similar number to the 335d. Imagine if GM made a 3.5 litre diesel based on the same setup.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I think that's more of a gearing issue with the 335d than anything else. From the numbers, it should better performance than that.

Again, the GM 2.9 litre diesel puts out roughly similar number to the 335d. Imagine if GM made a 3.5 litre diesel based on the same setup.

Diesels have to be geared higher, since their redline is much lower than a gas engine. If you gear it too low, the top speed would be much lower.

[ShadowDog]

I understand that but I don't want government telling me what to drive. We should be free to drive what we want even if gas is $6 a gallon.

While I have read the subsequent posts and understood everyone's position, the underlining mentality that lingers is one that suggests nothing about our existing products should change until alternative fuels, engine design and other innovations are developed for mainstream production. Everything comes with baby-steps, otherwise, that is one giant leap before the public and consumers will accept those new products.

The other point worth making is how the automobile companies will find themselves able to continue producing the old-school product for the select few consumers still desiring them. If the people have spoken and want the shift to green, it's the companies that have to answer the call. If GM wishes to remain a company that develops a product for all consumers, they hold the ball. Consumer demand dictates whether you will still be able to drive a high-performance / high-efficiency alternative product; and the only way a company will know this demand is through their existing sales that matches the desire found on forums and letter-writing campaigns.

[A Horse With No Name]

Which is why the Volt is such a make or break product for GM.

Actually this brings up an interesing point. We talked about a smaller lighter Camaro with the Turbo 4 from the Solstice/Sky. Stopped by the local Hyundai dealer on the way home from work as they had 4 Genesis coupes sitting out front. They are selling every turbo 4 Genesis they can get their hands on.

Would be cool if a Turbo 4 kept the Camaro in production, IMHO.

That being said, kind of sad to go to the Hyundai delaer. They were cutting the converter off of a nice Black Barn Door Burban that was a CFC casualty, getting ready to tow it to the junkyard.

Hope those poeple like their new Sonota or whatever.

Chris

[Camino LS6]

While I have read the subsequent posts and understood everyone's position, the underlining mentality that lingers is one that suggests nothing about our existing products should change until alternative fuels, engine design and other innovations are developed for mainstream production. Everything comes with baby-steps, otherwise, that is one giant leap before the public and consumers will accept those new products.

The other point worth making is how the automobile companies will find themselves able to continue producing the old-school product for the select few consumers still desiring them. If the people have spoken and want the shift to green, it's the companies that have to answer the call. If GM wishes to remain a company that develops a product for all consumers, they hold the ball. Consumer demand dictates whether you will still be able to drive a high-performance / high-efficiency alternative product; and the only way a company will know this demand is through their existing sales that matches the desire found on forums and letter-writing campaigns.

The jury is still out on how accepting the consumer at large is when it comes to small "green" cars.

Despite the hype, they still do not constitute anything like a majority in the market. Great for PR (at least today), but the long-term viability remains a question.

[z28luvr01]

GM's key to survival will be making sure it offers something for everyone, and that's all there is to it. Even in its downsized state GM is in a better position than any other company to provide a balanced portfolio to its customers. GM lost a lot of people who care about cars when they went chasiing the Japanese and stopped offering anything fun or good looking in the volume segments. Chrysler shot itself in the foot when it killed a solid Camcord competitor (arguably the best looking and performing one at the time) and only offered the LX cars as its midsized sedan entries. Variety is key, because if GM doesn't offer customers what they want, they'll go to someone who does.

Another point: being green and being pleasing to enthusiasts does not have to be mutually exclusive. There's no rule that says a Camaro can't have a smaller carbon footprint yet keep the formula that has made it so successful over the years. And there's nothing stopping them from making a "green" car like the Volt an engaging, fun to drive car.

[gm4life]

All I am saying is this...it is 2017 and your saying goodbye to your current beloved Impala after 230,000 miles of use and an insurance write off after someone mildly rear ends you in traffic.

You walk into your local Chevy dealer and you buy a lighter, more nimble, better quality rear wheel drive Impala with an inline six. Touque in inline six will re-arrange your insides, and it gets 42 miles per gallon day in, day out.

Oh...and your next Impala runs for 350,000 miles....

That is the diesel promise. Wouldn't that be sweet?

Chris

Would love that, even the TD six cylinder and the RWD... But people think FWD equals fuel economy, which is not true. I would love to see diesels in cars even stuff like the Camaro and CTS as long as they are six cylinder diesels. I am just not a huge fan of four cylinders in anything but very small cars or midsize FWD cars. Anything larger or an SUV I will just pass. Diesel is an answer no doubt but they got a bad name, and honestly the emissions standards make them nearly impossible to sell hear. So we will get stuck with smaller and smaller motors with less and less cylinders, therefore the cars get smaller and smaller. (This is without diesels...) Diesel is a good idea, and even for a performance guy they are great, 400lbft. of torque from a V6? Sweet.

Still I or someone in my family would like a big Camaro with small crummy plastic interior and all, (keep in mind I drive a Bonneville) with the big MOTOR. Those are the cars I like and I miss. I would love the Camaro to live on but if they can't stick a mainstream (not some uber expensive Z28) with a V8 and have all 4/6 cylinder stuff in a pony car, it isn't for me. Frankly I still don't like the idea of a turbo 4 banger Camaro. Or having the six cylinder model become the high performance model like the current SS and the only way to get a V8 is the Z28 which tops out in the mid 40's. I miss the cars from days gone by and the Camaro is that. I just know what CAFE looks like and cars like the current Camaro days are numbered. After 2015 its gone. A smaller lighter car sure, but it won't be for me.

FLOG 'EM WHILE YOU GOT 'EM!

Edited October 1, 2009 by gm4life

[Camino LS6]

GM's key to survival will be making sure it offers something for everyone, and that's all there is to it. Even in its downsized state GM is in a better position than any other company to provide a balanced portfolio to its customers. GM lost a lot of people who care about cars when they went chasiing the Japanese and stopped offering anything fun or good looking in the volume segments. Chrysler shot itself in the foot when it killed a solid Camcord competitor (arguably the best looking and performing one at the time) and only offered the LX cars as its midsized sedan entries. Variety is key, because if GM doesn't offer customers what they want, they'll go to someone who does.

Another point: being green and being pleasing to enthusiasts does not have to be mutually exclusive. There's no rule that says a Camaro can't have a smaller carbon footprint yet keep the formula that has made it so successful over the years. And there's nothing stopping them from making a "green" car like the Volt an engaging, fun to drive car.

Gospel

[hyperv6]

Which is why the Volt is such a make or break product for GM.

Actually this brings up an interesing point. We talked about a smaller lighter Camaro with the Turbo 4 from the Solstice/Sky. Stopped by the local Hyundai dealer on the way home from work as they had 4 Genesis coupes sitting out front. They are selling every turbo 4 Genesis they can get their hands on.

Would be cool if a Turbo 4 kept the Camaro in production, IMHO.

That being said, kind of sad to go to the Hyundai delaer. They were cutting the converter off of a nice Black Barn Door Burban that was a CFC casualty, getting ready to tow it to the junkyard.

Hope those poeple like their new Sonota or whatever.

Chris

The Eco turbo will turn 13 second in a car around 3200 pounds. While I love this engine the present car needs to be at least 3400 before I would think many would like it. Also the stigma of the 4 cylinder would have to be overcome since the Camaro looks so big and the engine is so small. It may be easier once they make a dent with the present V6. It just may need to be taken in steps for acceptance.

The key for the Volt is to make it like a normal car that isn't normal and that is what GM is doing. The Volt is going to be a car that will handle and ride like a car that is fun to drive. Something you would look forward to driving. While it may not be a CTSV it will by no means be a Glorified golf cart like so many before it.

Has anyone noitice GM has not really said much of late on future engines. You know they have a lot of things planned but have not said much. I hope they can get things moving to counter the Ford Ecoboost Marketing. GM has had the DI and Turbo longer than Ford but so many do no even know they offer it.

The future cars will still be fun to drive and give great performance it will just come in different packages than we are used too.

Edited October 1, 2009 by hyperv6