British Auto News

[HarleyEarl]

Tuesday 20th December 2005 Laws bring 24h lighting up time British motorists will be driving with their headlamps on day and night within 10 years after a new Europe-wide agreement that will allow only cars with permanent "lights on" to be sold. The move, from the Cars 21 Group of Euro motor industry chiefs and civil servants, is the final part of a deal to bring the big switch-on to the Continent by 2015. Formal proposals for EU member states will come next year. The plan is intended to cut European road accidents by making cars more visible.

[balthazar]

A bandaid over a severed hand.

[razoredge]

This is pathetic, can you imagine what a crowded highway or city driving will be like. Nothing but glowing headlights, no 3D depth, no color or contrast just a mass of glowing light bulbs. It scares me that the people that think this stuff up are highly educated and highly paid. You know we will be next, so much for a pleasent drive around town on a sunny day.

[Flybrian]

Um. DRLs actually work. So yeah.

[razoredge]

Um. DRLs actually work. So yeah.

[post="64420"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:unsure:

[Croc]

:unsure:

[post="64424"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yea, they do. The research has been posted elsewhere on this site recently. Also, you completely forget to take into account the different lighting requirements of EU v. US. In EU, there is a 30 degree cutoff required so that headlamps do not glare into oncoming drivers. I wish the US had this.

[razoredge]

Yea, they do.  The research has been posted elsewhere on this site recently.  Also, you completely forget to take into account the different lighting requirements of EU v. US.  In EU, there is a 30 degree cutoff required so that headlamps do not glare into oncoming drivers.  I wish the US had this.

[post="64442"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:unsure:

[thegriffon]

The US has no DRL requirements, just whatever the manufacturers (many European as well as GM) decide is best - usually a highbeam at low intensity (25%) to maximize visibility without glare (usually determined by countries such as Canada or Sweden that do require DRLs). For all the complaints about glare from DRLs—how do you know they just haven't left the full-power high-beams on? In many rural areas out west, with long empty roads and heat haze it's common practice to drive with the lights on during the day even without DRLs. If you want to argue then debate what intensity would be best. Edited December 29, 2005 by thegriffon

[razoredge]

I understand Griff, Im not talking about glare Im talking about the negitive contrast unnatural light has against natural light. I have been aware of it for years. Ive been down in my shop working on a sunny summer day with the lights on like a dummy, when I figured out what the problem was ands shut the damn things off I could see far better. If I was a wealthy film director I would set up two traffic scenes during the day, one with unnatural lights sticking out all over the place and another same highway without them. It would be very obvious that these unnatural lights cutting up the contrast and depth do more visual distraction......I'll call it mono tone for my lack of proper term. You can not see the vehical beyond the headlights, all you can see is the headlights. Another example I have always been annoyed with was people that turn their lights on long before dark. When one of those cars comes at you it cuts off the depth or distance you were just previously seeing to only as far as those lights. The eyes pick up little beyond the lights. Another example though this is night oriented, but of similar effect, can you see the stars beyond the fireworks ? No! But after the sparks fade away you can see the stars again. They can pull all the so called research they want out their butts and I will still say medow cookies, my eyes dont lie, unnatural light against natural is a distraction, whats next flashing laser lights just about the windshield ? Would this be a distraction ? Yes it would and headlights in broad daylight is as well. Bikes have always been a problem and even with lights on they can still mold into scenery at certain angles but anyone having problems seeing the traffic around them does not belong on the road....which we know is the case through just a bit of traffic observation. What does light straight in front of you do for your peripheral ? Narrow it. What does unnatural light do for 3d and depth perception ? It narrows it. I rest my case, must be my eyes are much diffent than eveyone elses but I want my scenery to be a flat plane of natural light and shadows undistorted by man made nonsence. I want to see green cars and red cars and pickups or wagons, no a set of headlights.

[Robert Hall]

I've never had an issue w/ the glare of DRLs...then again, I usually always wear sunglasses when driving in the daytime...they polarize the stuff, I guess..

[sciguy_0504]

I think, after a period of time, Europeans will rise up against this continent-wide quasi-government.

[balthazar]

I'm with razor on this one, 100%. This is also something I made an informal study on for my own interests and I've reached the same conclusions & findings.

Another take: 'headlights on' is supposed to draw more attention to another vehicle. I firmly believe the basis of this is that in the past only emergency/ fire/ police vehicles (and motorcycles) primarily had their lights on during the day for this simple reason. Sure it worked: it was different than the norm. Once every single vehicle on the road has lights a-blazing, the effectiveness will undoubtedly decrease tremendously.

Know what this makes me think of- The Next Step: a light bar the encircles the vehicle 100% and it lit whenever the key is on. You never know- someone might miss a 16-foot motorcar in the next lane because he couldn't see any lights! :P. Mark my words people....

[razoredge]

Yep, thats it, now the highway infront of you is nothing but a sea of lightbulbs and flashes from the side. Total nonsence shoved down our throats from insurance companies and col ledge grads determined to make their important mark on socioty. "Well we did a study and found that when some cars had their lights on and other didnt the ones with their lights on stood out " ah duh ! Too bad driving is all about distance perception, speed contrast/judgment, unimpaired peripheral awareness, ect, ect. Not a sea of lightbulbs. I remember when they dropped the speed limit in NY to 55, "but it saves lives" yaright, we're all still driveing around 65 mph but were doing it in fear. The real answer was "look at all the money" I spent more than a few evenings in my life watching the traffic court cash register go chi-ching. You could see the glow and feel the fever in the judges eyes. Then I think it was Kerry imposed the "court surcharge" in addition to fines. A $10 fee for all guilty, he liked it so much within a few years it was at 25, now its 50 or 75 I forget, that must equal millions per month statewide. I have been blessed in recent years but its just a matter of time, damn you for not stareing at your speedometer. Now I have to do it with oncomming lights a blazin. Im gonna carry a Qbeam on my dash, then they'll all know when Im commin. I wont have to stop for red lights, stop signs, nothing, I'll be able to drive just like Im the only one that counts because Ill know everyone can see me. shakeshead and sighs

[regfootball]

who gives a fk about the DRL's, what is so awesome about cars with DRL's is that it usually means auto headlamps at no added cost which is a nice feature to have!

[balthazar]

Auto headlamps are great! I hear they'll be grouped with automatic transmission, automatic wipers and automatic ash trays. Viva la Barco-Lounger, wake me when we get there!!

[Nick]

Maybe it is because I am in SoCal, but the streets and highways are crowded with cars that run DRL's for the msot part so I don't really care. As far as the regular headlights running all day, it wouldn't be a first. 90's GM trucks and SUV's ran the normal headlights as DRL's and I'm sure I can think of others.

[Flybrian]

Sorry, Balthy, but auto headlamps are a great feature that should be on every car, especially those driven by idiots who don't realize its dark or torrentially raining.

[sciguy_0504]

Love auto headlights. That was one feature I miss on the Blazer.

[balthazar]

Sorry, Balthy, but auto headlamps are a great feature that should be on every car, especially those driven by idiots who don't realize its dark or torrentially raining.

Sorry, but personal policy disallows the enabling of idiots. There are times I wish to turn the lights off before I park/turn the motor off. Luckily my '94 still entrusts me to control my own headlights, and I haven't let it down yet.

Yes- I know there's an ever-increasing number of numb nuts with licenses, but I have no desire to share the road with them. With the roads getting more crowded every year, vehicle operators should be subjected to increased know-how & vehicular common sense tests. Make it tougher; weed 'em out.
And where they are all coming from is worthy of a study grant, IMO...

[CSpec]

You can still turn the headlights off when they come on automatically....

[razoredge]

auto headlights & twilight is pretty cool but even clouds make them come on, thats kinda rediculous. I must confess they are not a problem on the LSS but I have no idea what I would do if they failed, I suppose then they are still manually operable. Biggest problem I had was when I went from the 99 back to the 90 I would keep forgetting to turn the lights off after driving to work initially in the dark but arriving after dawn.......then at 5:00 Id have a dead battery..only happened once. But I caught myself a few other times.

It is a nice feature but I still will never support DRL.

Remember Balthy - Harley had the water sensors that would put the top up on the ???? Y Job or LeSabre ? Im sure this is something modern times could give credit to Toyota for ? no wait.... Honda king of the worlds most important athletic amazements :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[regfootball]

what's great about GM is auto headlights are usually std. or cheap option. all my new fords have had autolamp, which is great, but is optional. my old 89 SHO sis not have that tho i think, must check. all my GM's and my two diamantes had the DRL/lights automatically on bit and i love it. even my 99 prizm had it! its a tremendous convenience feature. Edited January 19, 2006 by regfootball

[balthazar]

I still cannot fathom the pulling/rotating of a small knob as being an inconvenience, but OK..... Razor- there was a very limted production run of a rain-sensing convertible top on the '58 Eldo. I believe you are right and one of the early '50s concepts had this feature- I'm thinking it's the LeSabre... but the Y-Job has to be too early for this. Edited January 20, 2006 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

The automatic setting is great... my Jeep has them--they come on when it gets dark or cloudy, when I go in a tunnel or parking garage, and shut themselves off 60 sec after I shut off the engine.

[Flybrian]

I still cannot fathom the pulling/rotating of a small knob as being an inconvenience, but OK.....

Razor- there was a very limted production run of a rain-sensing convertible top on the '58 Eldo. I believe you are right and one of the early '50s concepts had this feature- I'm thinking it's the LeSabre... but the Y-Job has to be too early for this.

[post="77309"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You could use the same argument for Twilight Sentinel - what's the big deal about installing a porch light? But its a great feature.

As far as rain-sensing features, it was the '51 LeSabre and it had a moisture detector in the center console so you could park your car with the top down and not worry about it getting rained on as the convertible top would raise itself automatically.

Razor, if autolamps failed, you'd use them manually. No big deal.

Now, I don't understand this at all. GM pioneered the electric starter, the automatic transmission, electric wipers, traction control, rain-sensing wipers, auto-dimming headlamps, Twilight Sentinel, fuel economy computers - all convenience features and all something we can generally do without (except the first one). In all seriousness, I don't see how we can absolutely love and adore GM for creating these innovations years even decades before the Europeans or Japanese, yet dump on them in GM cars now.

[razoredge]

Now, I don't understand this at all. GM pioneered the electric starter, the automatic transmission, electric wipers, traction control, rain-sensing wipers, auto-dimming headlamps, Twilight Sentinel, fuel economy computers - all convenience features and all something we can generally do without (except the first one). In all seriousness, I don't see how we can absolutely love and adore GM for creating these innovations years even decades before the Europeans or Japanese, yet dump on them in GM cars now.

[post="78420"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Are you sure that was GM :unsure: I thought it was Merotamerda <_<

[Flybrian]

...?

[rkmdogs]

Sorry, but personal policy disallows the enabling of idiots. There are times I wish to turn the lights off before I park/turn the motor off. Luckily my '94 still entrusts me to control my own headlights, and I haven't let it down yet.

Yes- I know there's an ever-increasing number of numb nuts with licenses, but I have no desire to share the road with them. With the roads getting more crowded every year, vehicle operators should be subjected to increased know-how & vehicular common sense tests. Make it tougher; weed 'em out.
And where they are all coming from is worthy of a study grant, IMO...

[post="76494"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No comprede, senor!
License, we don't need no stinkin' license! You dona like it? Then I justa shoot you!
You are hurting my civil rights!!! I have every right to drive a car, even if I am
legally blind!!!

Years ago, I used to switch my headlights from the Federally required sealbeams,
to Marchals or Cibie Z-Beams, because of the beam cut-off and better projection.
How many times have you been blinded this week by mis-aimed headlites,
or fog lites on in the early night?
And on identification of emergency vehicles, officer I couldn't see your flashing
green, blue, red yellow, white lites because of all the funeral processions going by with their headlights on! :stupid:

[Dragon]

As somebody who’s dealt wit DRL’s their entire driving life, I can tell you they’ve saved me a lot more than they’ve bothered me.

[pow]

I like DRLs only if they can be turned off... for those times when you don't want to attract the attention of the police.

[Robert Hall]

I like auto-on lights...I also like the auto-off feature also. Regardless of whether they are in auto mode or not, the lights on my Jeep go off after a configurable # of seconds... never had a dead battery. That's an even better feature than auto-on, I think.

[razoredge]

As somebody who’s dealt wit DRL’s their entire driving life, I can tell you they’ve saved me a lot more than they’ve bothered me.

[post="93419"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Please explain the situation in which they could have saved you