GM on NPR

[evok]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5058950

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5058950

Listen do not read the transcript because of lost detail.

Links at the bottom were good as well.

Avg age of worker 49yo 30years senority.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5021604 Edited December 20, 2005 by evok

[The O.C.]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5058950

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5058950

Listen do not read the transcript because of lost detail.

Links at the bottom were good as well.

Avg age of worker 49yo 30years senority.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5021604

[post="61083"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Great story.....and so VERY true......

Thanks Evok....

[evok]

Great story.....and so VERY true......

Thanks Evok....

[post="61318"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I see this thread has not sparked much discussion.

What I did find of interest, it the perspective of those interviewed. The people that were interviewed were not from the traditional UAW base but in SH, Dorville and OK City.

It was interesting to see what they thought of the product they built and their thoughts on the compensation they receive.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I can't listen to it.... But would like to know what was said... Given that it's NPR and that the perspective seems to be from employees and it's pretty much 'us verses them' right now... And the fact that it deals with GM; I'll go ahead and assume that it's negative and I'll go ahead and expect the worst.

[evok]

Given that it's NPR and that the perspective seems to be from employees and it's pretty much 'us verses them' right now... And the fact that it deals with GM; I'll go ahead and assume that it's negative and I'll go ahead and expect the worst.

[post="61411"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It is from the perspective of the employees and that is why it is so interesting. The summary on the first link only gives an overview. It is an intersting perpective from UAW emplyees that are not in the UAW stronghold. I am not going to comment further and try to sway peoples opinions without them first listening to some of the interviews.

The interviews tell a story from the people that are affected by the turn in manufacturing at GM. There has been thousands of words written on these boards on this topic by people that are biased in either direction.

Listen to what the real people are saying, that do not come from the UAW stronghold. Listen to the words that do not come out of my mouth or yours or anybody that really does not have a direct vested interest in the layoffs.

People might be surprised by what they hear. Edited December 20, 2005 by evok

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

[quote]Profitability per Vehicle
Source: 2005 Harbour Report
GM:
Loses $2,331 per vehicle
Toyota:
Makes $1,488 per vehicle[/quote]

This is a simplistic explanation of a drastic and huge problem.

[quote]Production Time per Vehicle
Source: 2005 Harbour Report
GM:
34.3 hours, 2.5% improvement since 2003
Toyota:
27.9 hours, 5.5% improvement since 2003[/quote]

Another very important comparison.

[quote]North American Workforce
Source: GM & Toyota, Dec. 2005
GM:
White collar: 36,000

Production: 106,000.

Retirees: 460,000
Toyota:
White collar: 17,000 Production: 21,000 Retirees: 1,600

Health Care Costs per Vehicle in 2004
Source: 2005 Harbour Report & A.T. Kearny Inc.
GM:
$1,525
Toyota:
$201[/quote]

By comparison, those Toyota workers enjoy the same luxuries as those GM workers... (Sarcasm)


[quote]Average Hourly Salary for Non-Skilled, Assembly Line Worker
Source: Center for Automotive Research
GM:
$31.35/hour
NOTE: Includes idle workers still on payroll and those on protected status.
Toyota:
$27/hour
NOTE: Includes year-end bonus.[/quote]

Yep, Toyota sure does pay it's employees as well as GM does... (Sarcasm)

[quote]Worldwide Vehicle Production Projected for 2005
Source: 2005 Harbour Report
GM:
9 million

Manufacturing operations in 32 countries, vehicles sold in 200 countries

Toyota:
8.4 million

Manufacturing operations in 26 countries and regions, vehicles sold in over 170 countries[/quote]

Proving that once again, America will be the reason that Toyota prevails and GM suffers.

[quote]Only one other major employer around Atlanta pays such high wages for industrial work. That's Ford, which could close its plant as well.[/quote]

Anybody else see anything wrong with this???

GM and Ford, they pay so well, yet this country hates them so much... Go figure.

[quote]Post has a 22-year-old son. He used to work as a temp at the Atlanta plant. Post told his son that if he wanted to be an auto worker, he should get a job at Toyota.[/quote]

EXCELLENT attitude!!!!!! And from a GM employee none the less. (Sarcasm)

It shows that our culture has conditioned these people to think that Toyota is better and that GM will never be successful again IMO... You know, if you tell someone something enough then they'll begin to believe it. GM's employees show this trait and so does the general public for what it's worth. And all because the FEW 'opinion makers' turned on GM a long time ago.

Oh and BTW, I see that the guest was the great NEGATIVITY and Detroit death proprietor Michelin Maynard... Can't wait to hear this "Detroit is dead--and it's because we have so many better NEW domestic automakers" propaganda piece.

EDIT: BTW, this last statement is pure opinion on my part and no I haven't actually listened to the interview (because I can't--my computer won't allow it)

[razoredge]

I cant listen either but didnt get much from reading it. Just that people made a good living...........as it should be

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I cant listen either but didnt get much from reading it. Just that people made a good living...........as it should be

[post="61420"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Or the obvious negative effects of the "great global economy" and our lack of consideration for the companies that built this nation as we've lost our way and started the downhill slide.

Again, please note that this is my opinion.... Listen for yourself.

[evok]

Again, please note that this is my opinion.... Listen for yourself.

[post="61422"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I caveated in the first post, listen and do not read. Yet the two of you just spew opinion from out of nowhere. I suggest you take the time and hear what people have to say instead of shooting from the hip. It might make for some interesting discussion.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I caveated in the first post, listen and do not read.  Yet the two of you just spew opinion from out of nowhere.  I suggest you take the time and hear what people have to say instead of shooting from the hip.  It might make for some interesting discussion.

[post="61426"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well, first off; I'd love to listen but I can't...

Secondly, It's been the same negativity about GM for 3 years now. Why should we think it anything else?

And all of my 'shooting' at least is based on what I read.

[evok]

Well, first off; I'd love to listen but I can't...

Secondly, It's been the same negativity about GM for 3 years now. Why should we think it anything else?

And all of my 'shooting' at least is based on what I read.

[post="61429"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It is like having a pointless discussion with BM. You go around and around and it is not based upon the information at hand.

It would be one thing if you listened, but neither of you did, for whatever reason. Therefor your thoughts are meaningless and take up bandwidth. Edited December 20, 2005 by evok

[thegriffon]

:lol:

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

It is like having a pointless discussion with BM.  You go around and around and it is not based upon the information at hand. 

It would be one thing if you listened, but neither of you did, for whatever reason.  Therefor your thoughts are meaningless and take up bandwidth.

[post="61430"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Oh well...

I posted, I feel better and that's all that counts....

This is a voluntary, opinion based forum. Post what you want and read what you want.

Or at least that's my take on it.

No offense man, but I know your feelings on this and I agree to an extent.. But to have the kind of strict commentary that you desire would require ONLY insiders post and would pretty much defeat the purpose of a PUBLIC board all together in my opinion.

[CSpec]

Try this direct link: http://www.npr.org/dmg/dmg.php?prgCode=ATC...Pref=WM&getAd=1

[Petra]

Average Hourly Salary for Non-Skilled, Assembly Line Worker
Source: Center for Automotive Research
GM:
$31.35/hour
NOTE: Includes idle workers still on payroll and those on protected status.
Toyota:
$27/hour
NOTE: Includes year-end bonus.

Yep, Toyota sure does pay it's employees as well as GM does... (Sarcasm)

I know it's an oft-beaten dead horse, but the only reason GM & Ford pay their workers so much is because the UAW strong-armed them into doing so. There are people at GM plants doing tedious, mindless jobs like sweeping the floor. They earn $25/hour doing a job that is worth $15/hour, at the very most. To say nothing of all the workers GM employs who do nothing but sit at home, yet still get paid as much as they would for actually working.

Only one other major employer around Atlanta pays such high wages for industrial work. That's Ford, which could close its plant as well.

Well, no ****, Ford is gonna close their plant! Besides the fact that the Taurus is dead, Ford simply can't afford to pay the workers those outrageous wages.

The days of UAW members getting a free ride are coming to an end. The UAW votes to get themselves more pay than they EVER deserve (or else they'll strike), drive up their cost of living to match their ill-gotten gains, and then play their "poor pitiful me" sob stories when the company they're raping goes bust. Well, don't come crying to me. I'm not listening.

[Croc]

No offense man, but I know your feelings on this and I agree to an extent.. But to have the kind of strict commentary that you desire would require ONLY insiders post and would pretty much defeat the purpose of a PUBLIC board all together in my opinion.

[post="61439"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You don't know evok's opinions on this because he has yet to give them!

This thread was about commenting on the interview. Your responses thus far are therefore off-topic. Why can't you listen to it? Don't have speakers??

I really don't see how responding to a provided audio clip requires private insider forums. All that is being asked is to refrain from commenting until you have listened. It seems simple to me: if you can't listen, don't comment. :rolleyes:

Clip works in Firefox. All that is required is Windows Media Player, something that has been pre-installed on every computer since 1998. Edited December 20, 2005 by Croc

[Croc]

Commentary on the audio clip: I am glad Amanda is taking initiative and going to a technical college to expand her skills. She is smart. I also like how the auto workers are recommending future generations go to college. Again, more skills make workers more versatile. I am very surprised that one of the workers agrees that the "gold-lined" benefits package is out of line for the industry and recognizes he is "very overpaid." It is refreshing to hear someone in this industry with an ounce of self-awareness. The people interviewed seemed to be intelligent, articulate, realistic and surprisingly NOT bitter about the whole situation. Overall, a very balanced piece. So, evok...let's discuss.

[razoredge]

It is like having a pointless discussion with BM.  You go around and around and it is not based upon the information at hand. 

It would be one thing if you listened, but neither of you did, for whatever reason.  Therefor your thoughts are meaningless and take up bandwidth.

[post="61430"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Wow, I didnt say much except I could not listen and didnt get much from it. I did read what you said and didnt get much from that either. I just have a screen and keyboard. No audio, no scanner, no printer. Sorry ! The new computor left town, this is what I have.

So let me guess what these people said or the basis of it. They probably said things that indicated the money was very good and came easy and that they were greatful for their great American jobs ? Probably indicated that they were more than willing to concede to more reasonable levels. Product ??? Maybe they said they thought it was garbage, maybe they said they thought it was great ? Maybe they said they dont give a hoot about the product and did all they could to make it inferior garbage ? One things for sure we wont know if you dont tell us.

What ever it was, why cant so many of you come to grips with the fact that that was the way the American economy became molded in our times of great productivity, advancement and prosperity ?

Now in less than one decade the brainiacs of this country are rewritting the book and it only benefits those few.

You had made a comment about how there was not much response to the topic, well I attempted to, but could not "listen" and so stated.

Yet I/we get this

"I caveated in the first post, listen and do not read. Yet the two of you just spew opinion from out of nowhere. I suggest you take the time and hear what people have to say instead of shooting from the hip. It might make for some interesting discussion."

When.... we both opened our posts by saying we could not listen.

So we "caveated" in first sentence of our first post that we could not listen. Im not real smert and dont follow along real well but I believe that was pretty much a request from us to get some kind of an outline on what we were missing......?????

Thanks :unsure:

[The O.C.]

Well, first off; I'd love to listen but I can't...

Secondly, It's been the same negativity about GM for 3 years now. Why should we think it anything else?

And all of my 'shooting' at least is based on what I read.

[post="61429"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

(sorry Evok...I know I'm beating a dead horse...)

But Future...the whole point of LISTENING as opposed to just what you read, is that the majority of the piece revolves around actual UAW workers giving their opinions and insights into the situation....and as Evok said...they are NOT from Michigan or the midwest.

You get to actually hear those peoples' take on the situation.....the negativity (or reality) comes directly from the horse's mouth....NOT from the media in this case....

[razoredge]

Commentary on the audio clip:

I am glad Amanda is taking initiative and going to a technical college to expand her skills.  She is smart.  I also like how the auto workers are recommending future generations go to college.  Again, more skills make workers more versatile.

Skills, skills, skills, whats that, do you really know ? The world is just full of multi skill, versatile work isnt it ? all performed from a cubical ? We are all trying to get our kids into college, something you know little about, its nothing new, thats what parents do. Yet we can see different  interests and abilities that are inherent in humans, that is why we have a versatile existance.......until its completely deleted.

I am very surprised that one of the workers agrees that the "gold-lined" benefits package is out of line for the industry and recognizes he is "very overpaid."  It is refreshing to hear someone in this industry with an ounce of self-awareness.

So your quoteing this man as saying "very overpaid" and the benefits was out of line with what ? Out of line because the health care industry is very organized and right in the back pocket for every possible spare penny ?

The people interviewed seemed to be intelligent, articulate, realistic and surprisingly NOT bitter about the whole situation.

Of course they are intelligent. They are realistic because its human nature to deal positively with change......at first......forever if all works out. But, they have not hit the wall yet, its early, this is when you put your chin up and say "I can do it". Maybe they are in areas where different, fair paying work is easier to come by. I dont think this is the case in the Great Lakes area.

[post="61457"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

[Croc]

:lol:

[haypops]

[quote name='FUTURE_OF_GM' date='Dec 20 2005, 02:06 PM']
This is a simplistic explanation of a drastic and huge problem.
Another very important comparison.
By comparison, those Toyota workers enjoy the same luxuries as those GM workers... (Sarcasm)
Yep, Toyota sure does pay it's employees as well as GM does... (Sarcasm)
Proving that once again, America will be the reason that Toyota prevails and GM suffers.
Anybody else see anything wrong with this???

[QUOTE]Average Hourly Salary for Non-Skilled, Assembly Line Worker
Source: Center for Automotive Research
GM:
$31.35/hour
NOTE: Includes idle workers still on payroll and those on protected status.
Toyota:
$27/hour
NOTE: Includes year-end bonus.



Yep, Toyota sure does pay it's employees as well as GM does... (Sarcasm)[/QUOTE]

You seem to be telling us that Toyota is paying its workers significantly less than GM. I don't think the 16% difference these figures represent tells the whole story. Since the GM workders average age and seniority is so much greater, these kinds of pay differentials are to be expected.

[haypops]

An interesting side issue in these reports was the inside the UAW Deroit "beltway" workers verses these the are getting the boot. Sometime ago there was a post from a worker at Spring Hill who mentioned a change in attidue as UAW workers from outside of Spring Hill entered the workforce there and it wasn't pretty. Edited December 21, 2005 by haypops

[evok]

To those that took the time to listen to the reports, it is interesting to hear those key points The O.C., Croc and Haypops wrote about above from the source. You caught onto the same statements in the NPR interviews that I found very interesting. You will not hear those statements in the Detroit News or Free Press. Edited December 21, 2005 by evok