Look Ma, no B-pillar!

[Sixty8panther]

Okay well I just can't help myself I'm so dog gonned obsessed with this whole four door hardtop thing that I had to share some of cool google finds with you. I find redeming value in some of the ugliest, plainest or otherwise unexciting cars if they have a hardtop greenhouse.

I've decided to dedicate a thread, THIS ONE, to pictures of just four door hardtops of all makes and years. Forget those retarded "4-door-coupe" Mercedes Benzes that have no concept of reality... this is as sexy as a four door car will ever get IMHO.



P.S. for obvious reasons I've tried to post only pictures where all four windows are rolled down. B)


Something Olds





Something new





Something Mopar





Something blue

Edited December 19, 2005 by Sixty8panther

[Cory Wolfe]

Um... the only attractive looking one is a concept. :blink:

Plus, four doors are two too many. So, I'll take my BMW 850, please... :D

[Sixty8panther]

To each his own... the 850 is a gr8 BMW. :)











Here's an interesting one:

Edited December 19, 2005 by Sixty8panther

[Sixty8panther]

Well like I said I was trying to kep this thread to four door hardtops only, but when I make a 2dr hardtop thread you'll see a couple European cars... and even a couple JJapanese, no joke! Edited December 19, 2005 by Sixty8panther

[Cory Wolfe]

There used to be one of these out behind Pine Creek elementary school until it was crushed during logging...

[Enzora]

Yawn. This is getting really old.

[BigPontiac]

Hey, I had a MOPAR almost like your picture!



Though mine was a 1970 Chrysler New Yorker (with the 440/4bbl). Used to "hunt" for 1988 Camaro IROC Z's with that car...they never knew what hit 'em! Great car...not such a great picture.

[Sixty8panther]

Here's a cool photo I took this summer of the Corvair that I mentioned in TurboRush's thread.

[Sixty8panther]

Enzora:

Well, post a topic that doesn't bore you. :)



BV:

Great classic ad, but a very sad story. :(



BigPoncho:

I almost bought a 1972 Chrylser New Yorker in pea soup green. It was runnig and driving with a 440 and the guy was a motivated seller, asking only $1200. Saddly it was just a few months before Sofia was born and I could not justify buying ANOTHER car, esp since I had no place to store it.

In a parallel universe I would have sold my Blazer and made that car my daily driver. :) 1200 bucks, I get depressed just thinking about it.





Couldn't find too many photos of 4dr hard top 1970 N.Y.ers like yours but here's a nice sedan.






Ohh found one:

http://www.fuselage.de/chr70/70chr_lineup_b.jpg





Here's a stripped Chevelle 4dr that shows off the half-posts where a B-pillar would be on a pillared sedan.

[pow]

[post="60919"][/post]

Nice... right up until this happens:



As cool of a concept it is, I don't see them coming back. Pillarless two-doors, on the other hand, seem like the best compromise between safety and styling.

[Sixty8panther]

Still better than a convertible where there is NO roof and no B or C pillar. If they can make a Solstice meet federal crash standards then this should be no problem.

Frankly I'm pretty sick of all this liberal it's for your own good regulation. (no offense Empowah) Stuff like this makes me think of Communist CzechoSlovakia in the 1970s and 1980s. Convertibles were outlawed in the early 70s because they were considered by the government to be unsafe. When I came to the USA as an 8 year old kid in 1987 I had NEVER seen a convertible in my life. There were a few around but I'd never seen one wiht a few rare 30s/40s exceptions.

So as far as I'm concerned I want 4 door and 2 door hardtops BACK.


BTW: The 89-up Mercedes Benz SL's A-pillar is strong enough to not crush in a collision even if the car rolls over wiht highway styel inertia... so if made strong enough this stubby B-post could be made BETTER than a sedan's.



And how about the Ion Quad coupe??? Supposedly (acccording to GM) it has BETTER side impact safety than the equivelant Ion Sedan. That car has NO fixed B-pillar... stubby or not.

[Mach5GTP]

The following owns all the above:

:bowdown:


The 1965 Cadillac Sedan DeVille. (Sorry for the crappy pic, wanted one quick.) My parents had one just like that for several years back in the 70s. First car I ever went over 100mph in. First car I ever "drove", sitting on my dad's lap w/ the cruise control on. (Shudder to think of trying that today!) The thing was huge- it would seat 6. For dinner. :D

Some of my earliest car memories are of that Caddy. I remember going on a picnic w/ my family and another family, and it rained. All the adults got in the car, and 6 of us kids got in the trunk, w/ the lid up and a tarp pulled over it, like a tent. Good times...

Edited December 20, 2005 by Mach5GTP

[Croc]

Yawn.  This is getting really old.

[post="60908"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

For real.

[pow]

Still better than a convertible where there is NO roof and no B or C pillar. If they can make a Solstice meet federal crash standards then this should be no problem.

Frankly I'm pretty sick of all this liberal it's for your own good regulation. (no offense Empowah) Stuff like this makes me think of Communist CzechoSlovakia in the 1970s and 1980s. Convertibles were outlawed in the early 70s because they were considered by the government to be unsafe. When I came to the USA as an 8 year old kid in 1987 I had NEVER seen a convertible in my life. There were a few around but I'd never seen one wiht a few rare 30s/40s exceptions.

So as far as I'm concerned I want 4 door and 2 door hardtops BACK.
BTW: The 89-up Mercedes Benz SL's A-pillar is strong enough to not crush in a collision even if the car rolls over wiht highway styel inertia... so if made strong enough this stubby B-post could be made BETTER than a sedan's.
And how about the Ion Quad coupe??? Supposedly (acccording to GM) it has BETTER side impact safety than the equivelant Ion Sedan. That car has NO fixed B-pillar... stubby or not.

[post="61441"][/post]

The ION and all the other suicide-door cars (Element, RX-8, etc.) have B-pillars integrated into the door frame that extend to the roof and floor. They don't stop at the greenhouse.

B-pillarless coupes and convertibles are different in structure compared to B-pillarless sedans in that there's no rear door opening (well, d'oh). This allows for a far beefier lower "B-pillar" and side beam:




And about the Merc SL's A-pillar, the forces involved in a rollover are very different from those of a side crash. I don't think its A-pillar can survive a 31-mph blow from the side. Edited December 20, 2005 by empowah

[Sixty8panther]

Enzora:
Yawn.  This is getting really old.

For real.

[post="61459"][/post]

No one is MAKING anyone participate in any thread. If I think a thread is annoying, boring or old I don't post in it. Matter if fact I do not even have to read it. That's the beauty of free will.


------


Empowah:

Yes, a suicide door 4dr (RX8, Ion QuadCoupe) does have a b-pillar that "attaches" to the roof and floor but your argument seems flawed to me. A car rolling over at high speed and coming down wiht all of its weight onto ONE post that attaches only at one hard point and has a piece of glass glued to it is pretty damn severe... I'd say just as if not more than a 30MPH impact into the side from a moving car. Inertia is inertia... there's stil two doors wiht metal strikers and hinges on the side of the car... regardless of the number of glass pillars.

I happen to think todays technology can and WILL solve all these problems that you're refering to... I mean there's still a solid roof that helps to keep the car intact & can be designed to absorb some of the impact.

In either case this was not supposed to be an agrument about 4dr Hardtops vs. 4dr Sedans. It's about the beauty and elegance that comes of this bodystyle coupled with some of the nicest bodystyes of 1949 to the mid 1970s


With that in mind here's some other beauties:




1957 Pontiac Chieftan Hardtop





1960 Imperial Custom Southampton Hardtop Sedan





1967 Imperial LeBaron





1968 Mercury Park Lane Broughm





1972 Imperial





1972 Chevroet Impala 4dr Hardtop

Edited December 21, 2005 by Sixty8panther

[Satty]

The tastes of the masses change over time, they evolve, for better or for worse. Thats why you can no longer get a true hardtop coupe or sedan anymore. No amount of bitching is going to change that.

[Croc]

No one is MAKING anyone participate in any thread. If I think a thread is annoying, boring or old I don't post in it. Matter if fact I do not even have to read it. That's the beauty of free will.

[post="61511"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The beauty of free will is that you can't force us to refrain from participating, either :P

[pow]

The tastes of the masses change over time, they evolve, for better or for worse.  Thats why you can no longer get a true hardtop coupe or sedan anymore.  No amount of bitching is going to change that.

[post="61515"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'm sure the taste is there... it's just that the compromises, be it safety, weight (from additional reinforcement), or cost, are too great for something most people won't recognize anyway. Edited December 20, 2005 by empowah

[Flybrian]

[post="61584"][/post]

Lemon-suckin' Olds. Still looks better than a Lincoln of this general vintage.

[Sixty8panther]

I'm sure the taste is there... it's just that the compromises, be it safety, weight (from additional reinforcement), or cost, are too great for something most people won't recognize anyway.

[post="61529"][/post]

True.... same as most people can't tell the differance between a great bottle of Cabernet Savignon and the crap that comes in a box.



WMJ:

You sly fox you. Are you trying to make my heart stop? That '59 Electra 225 Riviera is one sexy bitch. Definition of car porn right there. Id take that over ANY car made in MY1959 including the Corvette and all the Cadillacs.



Moving right along, here's some more sexy 4dr Hardtops:



1954 Buick





1957 Chevrolet





& here's two 1958 Cadillacs. 2 roofs, 8 doors, Zer B-pillars. :)







1960 Dodge Dart





1961 Lincoln Continental EDIT: nevermind!





1962 Chrysler





1964 Oldsmobile Super 88 Holiday Hardtop





1965 Caddy Calais HT





1970 Cadillac SDV HT





1970 Impala





1971 Cadillac DeVille





1975 Pontiac Grand Ville Brougham HT

Edited December 23, 2005 by Sixty8panther

[balthazar]

Surprise!! Lincoln's last 4-dr hardtop was '60: all the '60s 4-dr non-convertible Lincolns (and all those afterwards thru at least '75) were 4-dr sedans. Weird lil' factoid from the very peak of the hardtop era. Edited December 21, 2005 by balthazar

[NOS2006]

I sure do love me a car without B-pillars!

[Sixty8panther]

Balthazar:

Holy $hit I feel like a:


I remember watching some movie as a kid where a few people are stepping to of a '61-ish Conti and it has the stubby pillars. I could have sworn it was a hardtop but I guess not. It's been about 3 or 4 years since I've seen one in the flesha nd up close and I guess I just always assumed that the chrome b-pillar rolled down with the window.

Wow... that totally ruins Suicide door Lincoln sedqans for me. I'd never buy a sedan 1961-64 but I do still love the ragtops for obvious reasons.


*thinking*


Actaully scratch that! I'll definatelly buy a 4dr sedan at some point just so I can install the B-post and windows off a ragtop. THEN there will be at least ONE hardtop Lincoln continental form that era!




Even this photo is very deceiving: doesn't it APPEAR like that's a hardtop? (just with the rear window up)





You learn something new every day. 1961 Ford engineers: you suck!







Moving right along as you've probably noticed I've got a thing for hardtop Mopars from the 50s and 60s... sme more nice ones right here:

[Flybrian]

So...now you hate a simplistic, elegant car because it has a thin B-pillar? How lame.

[Sixty8panther]

Time for some GM porn:

1956 Pontiac interior sketches... (4 door hardtops)







1957 Pontiac Chieftan





1959 Pontiac Flat Top (vista roof) too large to post:

http://www.tocmp.com/brochures/Pontiac/195...Page_13_JPG.jpg



Another '59 Poncho fishbowl





Last one I promise: (last '59 I mean)





1961 Pontiac >>> do not click if you have a heart condition <<<



1965 Bonneville





1966 Tempest LeMans HT





No it's NOT a GTO. It's a '66 Tempest Custom 4dr hardtop





1968 Pontiac Tempest LeMans







And now for someting completely different: a 1959 Oldsmobile

[Sixty8panther]

GM1:

You're absolutely right buddy... my bad on that one. it's a 210 all the way and I must not have taken a good look at the trim since I did not notice that. Kind of a knee-jerk reaction on my part. It's kinf of expecte that these days that if it's a turqoise '57 it's a bel air. Same as how every red 1970 Chevelle in existance to day seems to be an SS. :P




Fly: In the 1960s if you were paying Lincoln style prices you expected to have a hardtop optional if not standard like on many Cadillacs.

Yes a 1961-64 Luxury car IS lame if it has posts. Sorry but that's how I feel.




Now it's time for the inevidable 1959 Buick orgy. You knew it was coming. :wacko:

[PurdueGuy]

Dang it, now you're making me want my next car to be a classic to restore rather than a newer car to make fast. :P

[Enzora]

Search Feature

Keyword: hardtop

Member: Sixty8Panther

Search in: All Forums

# of threads with matching results: 74!

Sly, you're a strange, strange man.

(To put this in perspective, BlackViper has 108 threads in which he mentions Fieros.)

[HarleyEarl]

[razoredge]

You know, while a hardtop is much better than the post I just dont aspire to owning any 4 dr cars - for classic purposes. It must be an aquired taste. I would however go for a suicide door 65 66 Lincoln but thats because I had some experience with one in the 70's. In fact heres a story Led Zeppelin III - The first time I heard Immigrant Song was on a brand new just purchased 8 track in that very same Lincoln. My best friends fathers pride and joy. It was a mid 60's, Im thinkin 66. Ya know sixty, that pillor didnt affect the sound of that poundin riff one bit ;-) Long live Led Zeppelin.....oh wait....I forgot...just having a little flash back Rock on Sly, this beats the hell out of all the complaining. Although it didnt excape the complaining, in fact you complained about B posts, and now Im complaining. Jeeze ! ;-)

[balthazar]

Yawn. This is getting really old.

For real.

By all means: lock down this thread and lets get one going with pics of dash plastic graining instead.

I've only owned one 4-dr hardtop, a '65 Bonneville. For those who have not ridden in one with all the windows down on a warm spring day, you cannot imagine the tremendous difference.

[razoredge]

Yawn. This is getting really old.

For real.

By all means: lock down this thread and lets get one going with pics of dash plastic graining instead.

I've only owned one 4-dr hardtop, a '65 Bonneville. For those who have not ridden in one with all the windows down on a warm spring day, you cannot imagine the tremendous difference.

[post="62220"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I can imagine some thoughts after reading that. "windows down ? whats that ? The plastic graining in my dash might get dirtie" :lol:

No doubt about it. The wind buffeting off the B pillor is annoying.

[balthazar]

Didn't the old bmw 3-series 2-drs have either fixed or 'flip-out' quarter windows?? We went from hardtops in every marque to predominately fixed glass, or at best, rear door glass that only rolled down halfway. Real progress there...

[Enzora]

So...now you hate a simplistic, elegant car because it has a thin B-pillar?

How lame.

[post="61939"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well, he does have a point. On cars with suicide doors, one of the big advantages is ease of ingress and egress, since you don't have a pillar in your way. Obviously, this benefit was lost on the Lincolns of that era, which was a really stupid oversight. Of course, I don't think that the presence of a B-Pillar is enough to ever make or break a car. Sure, there have been a lot of gorgeous cars posted here, but they'd be beautiful with or without a b-pillar.

Didn't the old bmw 3-series 2-drs have either fixed or 'flip-out' quarter windows?? We went from hardtops in every marque to predominately fixed glass, or at best, rear door glass that only rolled down halfway. Real progress there...

Aye, it seems like, over the years, true luxury innovation has given way to electronic excess. (See: iDrive, Phaeton) And the irony is that, in this age, the standards that measure the amount of luxury in a car cares a lot about plastic grain, and not at all about whether it has a hardtop or flip-out windows.

Still, I'd much rather have a more efficiently-packaged, safer, better handling car, even if it means the rear windows don't roll down. I prefer coupes anyway, and don't drive with my windows down.

[HarleyEarl]

Yawn. This is getting really old.

For real.

By all means: lock down this thread and lets get one going with pics of dash plastic graining instead.

I've only owned one 4-dr hardtop, a '65 Bonneville. For those who have not ridden in one with all the windows down on a warm spring day, you cannot imagine the tremendous difference.

[post="62220"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It's a feeling like no other.

[balthazar]

Still, I'd much rather have a more efficiently-packaged, safer, better handling car, even if it means the rear windows don't roll down.  I prefer coupes anyway, and don't drive with my windows down.

Wouldn't you rather have a "more efficiently-packaged, safer, better handling car" AND have the rear windows roll down? I mean just in case you got the wild notion to roll (button) them down one day?

Myself- I can easily make any vintage car handle better than even an above-average modern car... I do not care about safety features for the most part, and I would much rather have a more spacious vehicle than a more cramped one that is more efficiently packaged. Oh yes; and I generally have a wide array of both hardtops & sedans on my menu as opposed to merely sedans.

[Sixty8panther]

Exactly. 95% of safety is still a combination of driving style/attentiveness and a pinch of luck... good or bad. Millions of peopole drove Ford Pintos billions of miles... only a few ever got killed. But on the flip side I'm pretty sure that given a bad accident you'd die even in a brand new 2006 Volvo with a racing helmet on and seatbelt on. I'm not going to live my life in fear of dying. That would be kind of like the Government taking away our rights in the name of freedom.... oh wait, nevermind. :ph34r: Edited December 23, 2005 by Sixty8panther

[Sixty8panther]

Some more...
















And look waht the cat dragged in.... a couple of 1961 Continental prototypes: Check out the MISSING B-pillar. Too bad the production version did not stay true to concept.

I'm still feelng shell shocked from this whole no hardtops after '60 thing. But at least I know I'm not going crazy since I've seen this photo before.

[HarleyEarl]

I love all the 4-door hardtops shown, but for some reason don't enjoy the ones with mags.....just doesn't look right to me.

[balthazar]

I really don't understand the Lincoln thing either. Hardtops, tho available in every domestic marque down to the most affordable, were always more upscale than sedans, and Lincoln already had a 4-dr pillarless shell- the convertible. I would like to know the reason they re-engineered the shell & glass to include a B-pillar... only reason had to be it cost less per vehicle to remove the convertible-specific bracing and slam a B-pillar in. It was out of step with the market of the time, tho, especially when almost all others offered both in the same shell. Edited December 23, 2005 by balthazar

[ocnblu]

Could the B-pillar have been a band-aid for some structural problem? I still love those '61-'67 Continentals. They were the best looking Lincoln ever, 2 and 4 door.

[balthazar]

[b]Could the B-pillar have been a band-aid for some structural problem?

Lincolns used unibody construction beginning in MY '58- I am not even certain that the '61 & up 4-dr convertible had any extra bracing; where would it be placed in a UB? If so, then there is no structural reason to have a pillared sedan in the era of hardtops when the convert was the same basic shell without a steel roof. Unless there IS a lot of extra bracing/ assembly work cost that Lincioln did not care to add to the sedan.... It's crazy any way I look at it.

[Sixty8panther]

[b]Could the B-pillar have been a band-aid for some structural problem? 

[post="62729"][/post]

You and Balthazar both said it first but I've been thinkning this myself the past two days. Just like Ford to have an A+++ idea but dumb it down to a B+ for production without any rhyme or reason.

Anyway here's some more family friendly hardtops:

[Imaj]

I really liked most of them.. It's a shame to see no 4 hardtop coming from our beloved american luxury makes.. letting MB go with calling the CLS a 4 door coupe as if they invented something new

[Turbojett]

Um... the only attractive looking one is a concept. :blink:

[post="60900"][/post]

This isn't attractive? What are you on?
I'd take it, even if it is a sedan. Hello, L-71!

[ocnblu]

That's a 1969 Chevelle Concours, a top-of-the-line Chevelle, over the Malibu in features and price. The Concours name was later used on a late-70's luxury edition Nova, then we all remember the Cadillac Concours from the mid-to-late 90's, the sport model Deville. Edited December 24, 2005 by ocnblu

[Turbojett]

A few more. I'm such a pic whore.

He-llooooooo Nurse!





and why haven't I seen this beauty in here yet?

[ocnblu]

Hey TJ, what model is that black '69 Mustang? It's not a Mach 1, is it? I think it's something else... Boss 429 SCJ? It's cool, but may favourite old 'Stang is the '70 Boss 302 in orange with the rear window louvers intact.

[Sixty8panther]

Save those for the 2dr hardtop thread. :P This one was just for 4-doors. Speaking ofd which you're absolutely right... the '03 SS should hae been posted in this thread a long time ago. :)

[Enzora]

Hey TJ, what model is that black '69 Mustang? It's not a Mach 1, is it? I think it's something else... Boss 429 SCJ? It's cool, but may favourite old 'Stang is the '70 Boss 302 in orange with the rear window louvers intact.

Well, for starters, it is a '69 Mach 1. A simple check of the link could've shown that. But the stripes are also a giveaway. The Boss 429 didn't have any stripes, just a little "Boss 429" logo behind the front fender, and its hood scoop was much larger. This particular one has the Magnum 500s and rear deck spoiler from the Boss 302.

Second, there was no Boss 429 SCJ. The Boss 429 was available from '69-'70 and the 429 SCJ was offered in '71. This one might be a 428 Cobra Jet, can't really tell from this pic.

So, did I forget anything? Hmm, given my own dorky obsession over classic Mustangs, I really should be more forviging to Sixty8 and his neverending hardtop threads, shouldn't I? Anyway, how about we all step back and bask in the awe of how cool it is to have a Mustang photographed in front of a Mustang. In matching colors, no less.