Word Of The Day

[Nick]

The size of something in my pants is disturbing. Those boxers keep riding up my ass! :P

[post="60554"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

In which way is the size of something in your pants disturbing? Disturbingly large? Or disturbingly not-so-large? Because depenging on the disturbance, I may be able to relate :P

[Chris_Doane]

In which way is the size of something in your pants disturbing? Disturbingly large? Or disturbingly not-so-large? Because depenging on the disturbance, I may be able to relate :P

[post="60732"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Oh wow, I see the possibility for a disturbing poll thread to spawn from this thread....

[Nick]

I find it disturbing that you somehow had the same disturbing idea about making a disturbing poll about disturbing sizes of disturbing things in pants. Edited December 19, 2005 by Nick

[ocnblu]

It's all fun & games until someone loses an eye. Be careful where you aim that thing!

[Cory Wolfe]

Oh wow, I see the possibility for a disturbing poll thread to spawn from this thread....

[post="60733"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I find it disturbing that you somehow had the same disturbing idea about making a disturbing poll about disturbing sizes of disturbing things in pants.

[post="60734"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Oh... I've been wanting to start that poll for a looooong time, now... :D

[Newbiewar]

It's all fun & games until someone loses an eye.  Then its just funny

[post="60738"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

There now the phrase is right :P


... Disturbing

[Croc]

There now the phrase is right  :P
... Disturbing

[post="60777"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Agreed!

[Chris_Doane]

I find it disturbing that you somehow had the same disturbing idea about making a disturbing poll about disturbing sizes of disturbing things in pants.

[post="60734"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Disturbing. :rolleyes: :lol: Edited December 19, 2005 by CD/BP

[Sixty8panther]

My point was just that Cadillac needs to build vehicles that compete in large markets first before going after niches.  GM needs money, and practicality comes into play.  I even said you might see a hardtop one day from Cadillac, but still, I wouldn't expect a land yacht.  Plus, what's revolutionary about land yachts?  We've had them since the 1950s.

[post="60386"][/post]

Yes, and they're a proven seller for certain demographics... pimps and geriatrics for starters. [/sarcasm]

My mention of a niche market was my reaction toy your comment about the non-existance of LAND YACHTS in 2005.

Rememeber?

but it would compete with which other car in that segment...?

In other words I thought you were saying there were no other cars in that segment. I mean it's hard to know when you're being sarcastic and when it's just your attempt to poke fun at peoples ideas.

A full size, rear-wheel drive V8 powered Cadillac is a lot more realistic than a power-retractable-roof-convertible based on the Corvette. What the hell is a larger market than a direct competitor to the Lincoln Tow Car?

Do you think that Cadillac would have a problem selling this type of vehicle? Volume wise BOF, full size cars made up 100% of their lineup for al of Cadillac's best decades. 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s... all huge BOF cars, predominantly RWD.

I understand that they might go unibody thought i do not agree with that move but there's nothing unexpected about a land yacht.

Croc: I think it is disturbing how much members think they know when they really have no idea...

So true. :AH-HA_wink:

[turbo200]

you guys are disturbing me..... yet it's sadistically enjoyable

[Cory Wolfe]

Sixty8 disturbs me... all those outdated thoughts & ideas... *shakes head* :D

[Flybrian]

A full size, rear-wheel drive V8 powered Cadillac is a lot more realistic than a power-retractable-roof-convertible based on the Corvette. What the hell is a larger market than a direct competitor to the Lincoln Tow Car?

[post="60868"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The point is, its too late and a waste of money to restart production on a class of car GM gave up a decade ago. Whether it was right or wrong, it happened and its done.

Let's be realistic. What would be a better investment for Cadillac - a huge, floaty body-on-frame moderately-equipped sedan that would only primarily sell at volume discounts to fleets that use them as glorified taxis or a DTS-sized ULS RWD, V8 luxury sedan that can be truly seen as a global luxury competitor?

I vote for the latter and I bet you 10-to-1 Cadillac does, too.

I don't know if you've been in livery Town Cars lately, but these aren't top-of-the-line models; they're base Signatures with heavy-duty service paks. The only reason Lincoln sees any profit from these cars are because they're so damn old all the tooling was bought and paid for decades ago. Its a lousy investment for Cadillac to start a line of fleet cars. Think about it.

[Sixty8panther]

So because the B-body was cancelled once means it HAS to stay dead right? Don't tell that to fans of other cancelled GM products. You know like: Camaro, Firebird, 2dr Tahoe, Eldorado, Roadmaster etc. And why not a MB S-class competitor AND a more traditional lagre Cadillac for the old crowd and us "weirdos". As far as fleet cars they use tons of Impalas, Grand Ams, Grand Prixs, Park Aves, Chargers & Chrysler 300s too... does that automatically make those cars crap? :blink: Fleet sales HELP profit not hurt it. Other than that I'll agree to disagree.

[Cory Wolfe]

So because the B-body was cancelled once means it HAS to stay dead right? Don't tell that to fans of other cancelled GM products. You know like: Camaro, Firebird, 2dr Tahoe, Eldorado, Roadmaster etc.

Or Fiero....

Anyways, here's an analogy for you. Impala SS's major problem: BOF platform; Fiero's major problem: Engine fires. Now... do we want to keep those problems or get rid of them if those were to be revived? :lol: :D

And why not a MB S-class competitor AND a more traditional lagre Cadillac for the old crowd and us "weirdos".

Sure... as long as I get my $12,000, 400hp, V8, all aluminum Fiero. Since both are equally (un)likely to happen. :P

As far as fleet cars they use tons of Impalas, Grand Ams, Grand Prixs, Park Aves, Chargers & Chrysler 300s too... does that automatically make those cars crap? :blink: Fleet sales HELP profit not hurt it.
Other than that I'll agree to disagree.

Yes, but it hurts depreciation (for those that care) as well as the public's perception.

[Flybrian]

So because the B-body was cancelled once means it HAS to stay dead right? Don't tell that to fans of other cancelled GM products. You know like: Camaro, Firebird, 2dr Tahoe, Eldorado, Roadmaster etc.

Yes, the B-body is dead, has been dead, get over it. The B-body will likely never return and if any BOF car is ever built again, it'll be on a different platform. Also, those are nameplates, man, not chassies. There's a difference. The Camaro is returning as a RWD, V8 musclecar, but not on the F-body. Find me one person who gives a shit.

The basis of your argument is this body-on-frame kitsch. Where are you going to build this wonder barge? No BOF car lines exist and I doubt one could translate a GMT chassies into a slick Cadillac.

And why not a MB S-class competitor AND a more traditional lagre Cadillac for the old crowd and us "weirdos".

Look at DeVille/DTS sales stats. Old people and yacht-lovers crave them and have padded the Cadillac purse for a decade without the Fleetwood. DeVille gave the Fleetwood buyer most of what they were used to and more gadgets while sacrificing RWD - which some care about - and frame construction - which nobody who bought them except livery companies care about.

Also, if this is such a lucrative market, don't you think Cadillac should've pursued it more back in the early-90s when it had a Fleetwood? Show me stats to prove me wrong, but I have a feeling Lincoln handily outsold Cadillac in the low-profit fleet market back in the '90s.

As far as fleet cars they use tons of Impalas, Grand Ams, Grand Prixs, Park Aves, Chargers & Chrysler 300s too... does that automatically make those cars crap? :blink: Fleet sales HELP profit not hurt it.

This makes no sense in regards to this argument. And its a fact that fleet sales account for far lower-profit margins than retail sales because fleet buyers typically do two things:
1) Buy the cheapest, strippest trim available.
2) Want a massive discount on it.
Show me the profit compared to a retail car loaded with options.

You're also talking two different fleets. You propose this BOF car because limo companies want to chop them up.

Other than that I'll agree to disagree.

[post="60931"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yet, you retort still?

Look, plain and simple: Your desire requires GM to have a plant to manufacture this car and honestly, GM has a lot more problems right now than this. If only they had the luxury of worrying about a low profit, lower-volume segment that'll costs lots of money to get back into.

Tell you what. You shut up and support the FWD unibody DOHC shitboxes like Epsilon II and the Lambada crossovers that help General Motors compete and make some money again and when the glory days of deep pockets and big bucks return, I'll be there to personally lay the keel for your boat, 'kay?

[NOS2006]

PS:  Did NOBODY like my pun?

[post="60730"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I thought it was genius. Edited December 20, 2005 by NOS2006

[knightfan26917]

Don't tell that to fans of other cancelled GM products. You know like: Camaro, Firebird, 2dr Tahoe, Eldorado, Roadmaster etc.

It is disturbing to me that you did not list the Monte Carlo with this group of vehicles....

*chuckles*

Just kidding of course...sort of.

*sighs*


I think it is great that the Camaro is coming back ... regardless of the platform ... though I couldn't care less....

I also think it is great that some of the FWD vehicles are starting to get some attention in design and features in the last few years.

I find it disturbing, however, that Chevrolet/GM has the nerve to slap an older RWD nameplate on a newer FWD vehicle....

But, that's just me.....


Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker
MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/
Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html
"My time here is over" ... Patty Lovelace ... 'How Can I Help You Say Goodbye?'

[NOS2006]

New word of the day: pwned!!1!1@#ONE!1 Now who can use it correctly? Just kidding of course. :)

[Nick]

NOS has a v6 camaro! pwned!!1!1@#ONE!1 sorry...I couldn't contain myself :rotflmao: Edited December 20, 2005 by Nick

[NOS2006]

haha Got me there...

[Sixty8panther]

Fly: I don;t know why I keep going back and forth with you. I guess we'll just never agree. The fact that you b!tch about all those thousands of BOF Lincolns, Fords & Mercurys clogging up Florida roads. (you know with their carrige tops and continental kits) but yet refuse to accept that GM lost millions by canceling the B-bodys and STILL IS just does not compute to me. Do you serously beieve that a customer looking for a Caprice Classic in 1997 just bought an Lumina instead? Hell effin NO! They went over to FoMoCo and gave them a sale! Just like my G/Fs grandmother and a dozen other peopel I know in that demographic. Marcia's grandparents owned the ONLY Chevrolet and Plymouths for YEARS. They had several Biscaynes & Impalas in the 60s. One Plymouth and two Monte Carlos in the 70s. Another Monte & a Caprice Classic in the late 80s and the in the late 90s they went over to the Mercury dealer and bought a Grand Marquis since Chevy had a (FWD, V6 midsize) Lumina as their flagship. And in 2002 had it not been for me talking Gram into buying a low milage used 1999 Cadillac STS off of Chevy of Lowell while I was working there she would have went right over to Acton Linconl-Mercury and picked out ANOTHER brand new Grand Marquis. So now all these new cars that they bought off of GM in decades past have no amount of value to GM. This is the customer, after a lifelong loyal ownership of GM BOF cars, that they toss aside like yesterdays newspsper? BTW: this is just ONE case, just one example I have. And Gram has more interesting car tales. Like how she learned to drive on a late 30s Packard with a manual trans.

[z28luvr01]

Sixty8 (and Fly)...if you want to feel what a modern BOF car would feel and drive like, take an SSR out for a spin. I believe it's on a stretched TB or Colorado chassis, and has the ZQ8 suspension components. I'm not gonna argue one way or the other on this, but I think the SSR is probably the closest thing to what a production BOF would be like. The Ford triplets are dated, and won't hold a candle to the SSR in the twisties.

[Croc]

For all the sales GM lost by cancelling the B-bodies they more than made up for with the GMT-800s. :rolleyes:

[Sixty8panther]

Z28 excelent point. :) Perhaps if Ford had redesigned the Panther cars in the late 90s or early 2000s it would have pushed GM's @$$ in gear.



Croc:

You logic is right in line wiht GM's Fu*k what people want just give them what's convenient and they'll kep comig back. After all every person who wants to buy a Caprice Classic is actaully a closet-Suburban fan.

*sigh*

[Cory Wolfe]

Sixty8 (and Fly)...if you want to feel what a modern BOF car would feel and drive like, take an SSR out for a spin. I believe it's on a stretched TB or Colorado chassis, and has the ZQ8 suspension components. I'm not gonna argue one way or the other on this, but I think the SSR is probably the closest thing to what a production BOF would be like. The Ford triplets are dated, and won't hold a candle to the SSR in the twisties.

[post="61269"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

And an SSR won't hold a candle to a unibody car in the twisties. Your point is...?

[z28luvr01]

And an SSR won't hold a candle to a unibody car in the twisties. Your point is...?

[post="61405"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Like I said, I'm not going to aruge for or against BOF. I've never even been in an SSR with the engine running. What I'm getting at is: if you want to decide whether or not a BOF-based car is a worthwhile endeavor, to drive the SSR, since it's the closest thing to a modern BOF car out there. Don't base your statements on BOF based on the the Panther chassis or the B-body, because those are far from modern.

Oh yeah, I ate some shrimp at the Christmas luncheon today, and it's really disturbing my stomach.

[Croc]

Croc:

You logic is right in line wiht GM's Fu*k what people want just give them what's convenient and they'll kep comig back. After all every person who wants to buy a Caprice Classic is actaully a closet-Suburban fan.

*sigh*

[post="61377"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I see you've set aside time today to humiliate yourself in public, again. :lol:

I don't even know why you are attempting this argument as it not only isn't backed by sales data, but doesn't even make logical sense. I'm pretty sure GM was building what people wanted when they axed the B-bodies in favor of SUVs at the Arlington plant since SUVs were experiencing annual sales growth in the hundreds of percents.

[Satty]

Croc is right with that argument. By building the SUVs, GM gave MOST people what they want. SUVs=hundred of thousands of sales, tens of thousands in profits per sale while the B-bodies were a few dozen thousand sales, with fairly low profit margins since so many went to fleets. GM didn't say f*ck what people want, they said f*ck a shrinking market segment that made very little money. Get over it.

[Croc]

Isn't the Corvette BOF? Not many unibodies can hold a candle to that.

[post="61531"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No.

[Croc]

No, the Corvette is not BOF. It is a hybrid. Edited December 21, 2005 by Croc

[Flybrian]

Its a hybrid of both.

[z28luvr01]

So was the F-bod, I believe....there was a traditional frame in front of the firewall,while the rest of the car is unibody.

Croc, Satty, and anyone else wondering why the B-bod was canceled, here's a great explanation from 91z4me:

I can actually answer that one.

The B-body was supposed to pack up and be shipped south of the border to Mexico and continue production, an IRS system was even in the works and the LS1 was already certified within GM for the Impala and Caprice.  Heck I bet that a new interior was only a year or so away for the big boat.  But what happened is that GM saw that more people were buying fullsize BOF SUVs, which were more profitable than the b-bodies, so they converted the plant to produce BOF SUVs and packed up the b-body equipment.  Why production was not moved I do not know.  Probably some bean counter decided they might as well cut their losses as opposed to letting the line run a few more years, remember the B-body had the gas tank behind the rear axle and it was the last car to do so from GM.  That was a major concern, as exemplified by the Crown Vic and its fire issues.  So the B-body died.  The B-bodies were very profiable and popular until they were killed.  In fact when the announcement came out that 96 was the last year so many police orders came in cars that were scheduled to be Impala SSs or were already completed as SSs were converted back to 9C1s to fill the orders.  CHP also threw a BIG hissy fit when they found out they weren't getting anymore Caprice's but instead Crown Vics.

[Croc]

Exactly...the SUVs were MORE popular. GM actually made a pretty good business decision IMO, especially since they don't have the srutiny like Ford now does with the Crown Vics.

[turbo200]

Croc is right with that argument.  By building the SUVs, GM gave MOST people what they want.  SUVs=hundred of thousands of sales, tens of thousands in profits per sale while the B-bodies were a few dozen thousand sales, with fairly low profit margins since so many went to fleets.  GM didn't say f*ck what people want, they said f*ck a shrinking market segment that made very little money.  Get over it.

[post="61493"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

they also showed short-sightedness by completely abandoning a segment, and cars, that had life in it still.

[Flybrian]

they also showed short-sightedness by completely abandoning a segment, and cars, that had life in it still.

[post="61575"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

True that, unlike the Panthers, B-body cars did have desireable attributes.

For the record, I like the old B-bodies. They're solid cars and most look pretty nice. Hell, I was hot and ready to buy a '96 Roadmaster if it weren't already sold. There is also no doubt in my mind the Caprice was the best service car built. However, their ship has sailed; blame GM for that. All I recognize is that resurecting such a car is not a top priority for General Motors today, especially in light of current financial woes. Fix the big problems first.

Also, just because Ford's Panther cars still exist doesn't make them 'awesome' or any less mediocre than they were back in 1996 when GM's trio was clearly better. The B-body's cancellation doesn't raise the CV/GM/TC to some higher plane - they're still floaty, minimally-equipped, overpriced (Town Car), dowdy-looking (GM) sedans.

And as a personal note, it gets old hearing the same, old worn-out tune of "good, strong BOF V8 RWD > FWD traverse V6 unibody shitbox" again...and again...and again...and again. We all have our preferences, fantastic. But to get so aggressive and hostile over it. Man...

[Croc]

Yes, GM abandoned a segment, but look at it this way: at least they went out strong instead of being left on the vine to wither like Ford seems intent on doing with the Panthers. For the times, the GM trio were the best during every year of their lifecycles.

[wpbharry]

Its disturbing that Josh hasn't given me a ride in his Solstice even though I've given him many drunken rides in my MAXX, even though my knee was in bad shape.

[Satty]

Its disturbing that I hadn't bumped this thread in the last four years.