Just Who Is The #1 Automaker In The World?

[Guest Josh]

Who Is The #1 Automaker In The World?

A Simple Question With A "Simple" Answer?

When I walked into work this morning I knew it was going to be a day like no other. Not because of the raging snow storm that was before us in Metro Detroit, or the fact that the Solstice was left exposed in this bitter cold weather. Never mind the competition I was involved in with a fellow coworker for a steak dinner to be paid for at my discretion.

Yes, the snow storm came, the Solstice was under the heavy blanket of snow & ice and yup, I did win the competition for the steak dinner. But what lead up to the events of this day shocked me. More than I could have ever imaged.

A fellow coworker of mine approached me and said “Hey Solstice (as that’s my nickname at work, fitting I must say) who is the #1 automaker in the world?” First, let me say I was absolutely shocked to hear such a question. My coworkers know of my love for General Motors as well as for this web-site, C&G. Second, are you kidding me? You really have no idea who the #1 automaker in the world is?

I held back the chuckles, fought the grin, resisted the urge to politely respond with “Are you kidding me?” and I replied with the simple answer of…..”General Motors.” WHOOPS! Wrong answer! That’s what my coworker thought. After calling me out, telling me I had no idea what I was talking about, and stating that General Motors was no longer the #1 automaker in the world, or the U.S. for that matter I couldn’t help but sit back and respond with an under my breathe “wow.”

“How much do you want to bet GM is not the #1 automaker!” My coworker asked. I responded and said “If you really want to bet me, we can bet, but first I must know who you think it is.” The answer was simple. I should have known. “Toyota is the #1 automaker in the world.”

We shook on the $5 bet as I proceeded to have my fellow peer follow me to the rear of our business to the nearest computer that was Internet ready. He wished for me to prove it, and I set out to do just that. First step and one that was sure to go in my favor was 5 of my coworkers hard at work. I stopped and asked “Hey guys, who is the #1 automaker in the world?” All proclaimed “Toyota!”

Ok, so maybe, just maybe these people have no idea on their American history. I chalked it up and now feverishly picked up the pace to find this Internet equipped P.C. I typed in Google the search string of #1 automaker in the world. It picked up a news excerpt of Kerkorians bid to increase his share of General Motors to 9% that was dated back in March. I pointed to this, it’s all the proof I would need I said. Well, according to another coworker, “There was a different news story out since stating Toyota is #1.”

I was in shock.

People in their mid-twenties, late twenties, all the way up to nearly 50 years old, yet nobody could tell me who the #1 automaker in the world was, and those that thought they knew, said Toyota. I preceded to pull up a General Motors Press Release of sales in November of this year. I highlighted the excerpt at the bottom of the page, noting GM’s success at #1 for decades and decades. People chastised me for it, claiming it was “biased proof.”

I went out to the sales floor, I asked customers in the story in a very jokingly, but all too serious manner who the worlds most successful automaker was in terms of volume. Blank stares is what I received. Not because I was asking a question like this is a Sprint store, but because the people openly admitted after a guilty sounding chuckle that they had no idea who it was. One person was able to conjure up a guess, that “wasn’t even educational” that General Motors was indeed the company in the lead.

This might seem like more a rant, but I must ask. If people are not aware of who the #1 automaker is in the world, and they live in Metro-Detroit, just one mile away from the General Motors Technical Center in Warren, Michigan what does that tell us about the state in which we live? I don’t mean Michigan, I mean the state in general.

The press seem to be doing their job of destroying the corporate entity that is General Motors. Its painfully clear to me the people don’t read the news stories on the front pages of today’s papers. The Detroit News, The Free Press or any other publication in your local area. The headlines of smear seem to be working and working in a way I could have never imagined. I was shocked to hear the responses I heard today from GM's own backyard.

To wrap this bit up, as I asked this question to many other customers and coworkers I felt as if I were Jay Leno on an episode of “Jay Walking” where he goes to the streets of Burbank to ask unsuspecting people the most simplest of questions, yet they can’t seem to answer them correctly.

Oh yea, and I’ve yet to receive my $5. Apparently some “research” has to be done before the debut is paid up.

[CARBIZ]

Well, things aren't that bad around here - yet. However, the Toronto Star has taken to referring to Toyota as the "largest auto manufacturer by market valuation." I sometimes despair of the media. It doesn't seem to be just in connection with the auto industry. Even in other industries or events, it seems like a total contempt and hatred of #1. In another thread the point was made about how the media attacks McDonalds all the time while ignoring Burger King's mistakes. Personally, I distrust the media as much as politicians.

[Satty]

Well, if you go by retail sales...... I actually think part of the problem is that GM doesn't have the #1 seller in either major category (SUVs count as trucks) so people see #1 selling car-Toyota Camry and #1 selling truck Ford F-Series they just kind of translate that as Toyota sells more cars total than everyone else, Ford sells more trucks, since cars are more popular than trucks, Toyota is the #1 car company by volume. I never said people are smart.

[Newbiewar]

Well, if you go by retail sales......

I actually think part of the problem is that GM doesn't have the #1 seller in either major category (SUVs count as trucks) so people see #1 selling car-Toyota Camry and #1 selling truck Ford F-Series they just kind of translate that as Toyota sells more cars total than everyone else, Ford sells more trucks, since cars are more popular than trucks, Toyota is the #1 car company by volume.  I never said people are smart.

[post="59692"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

if i remember correctly either the tahoe or trailblazer is #1 for SUV's...

but... i dont get why people dont understand... i remeber a few years back i was arguing with my brother who was bigger, ford or GM...
now people are saying toyota, but they are still a few million units back...

[Satty]

For the longest time the #1 SUV was the Explorer, not sure what it is now, but I'm pretty sure its a GM. But the official numbers come from vehicles registered, and vehicles are registered as either cars or trucks, no SUVs, so SUV sales get lumped in with trucks.

[tama z71]

The sooner the Toyota claims the #1 World Sales Spot, the sooner GM will have the media behind them, as well as releasing some of the pressure for a corporate overhaul. Nobody supports the big guy: they all shoot for the underdog. I cant wait to see how the journalism once Toyota becomes number one and experiences the problems that come with the title.

[Sixty8panther]

:blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

[97regalGS]

is it possible that Sprint just hires stupid people?

[Cory Wolfe]

Some people are just retarded... that's all.

[siegen]

#1 by number of vehicles sold, profit, work-force? In the U.S. or the World? Do fleet vehicle sales count? It's hard to specify the #1 manufacturer, because there are so many different categories that a manufacturer could be #1 in. Aside from that, I really don't have any idea :P I assume the number of vehicle sales (including fleet sales) would be the way to rate manufacturers. I don't think it would be too hard to find overall sales figures for both companies and compare. I think it's painfully obvious GM isn't making as much money as Toyota though. From every article I've read it seems as though Toyota hasn't quite taken over the top spot, but will soon. Who knows... :Toyota:

[Guest gmrebirth]

The sooner the Toyota claims the #1 World Sales Spot, the sooner GM will have the media behind them, as well as releasing some of the pressure for a corporate overhaul.  Nobody supports the big guy:  they all shoot for the underdog.  I cant wait to see how the journalism once Toyota becomes number one and experiences the problems that come with the title.

[post="59723"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Funny, I don't see the media jumping at the chance to be behind Ford. Ford gets grilled in the media almost as much as GM, and Ford is now considered "an underdog" in many respects. Edited December 16, 2005 by gmrebirth

[Guest gmrebirth]

#1 by number of vehicles sold, profit, work-force? In the U.S. or the World? Do fleet vehicle sales count? It's hard to specify the #1 manufacturer, because there are so many different categories that a manufacturer could be #1 in. Aside from that, I really don't have any idea  :P

I assume the number of vehicle sales (including fleet sales) would be the way to rate manufacturers. I don't think it would be too hard to find overall sales figures for both companies and compare. I think it's painfully obvious GM isn't making as much money as Toyota though. From every article I've read it seems as though Toyota hasn't quite taken over the top spot, but will soon. Who knows...  :Toyota:

[post="59783"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

If going by volume, GM STILL is the #1 automaker in the world. But "number one" is a a vague phrase. It would be more accurate to say GM is the *best selling* automaker in the world. Years ago, GM was *number one*, because they had a pretty high marketshare, good sales, loads of profits and cash in their coffers.

But now, Toyota is the richest automaker in the world, and is "number one" in many categories, except of course sales volume.

I guess the media (and people) seem to think Toyota is #1 right now just because they are so successful, and Toyota will soon overtake GM in volume.

[CaddyXLR-V]

and Toyota will soon overtake GM in volume.

[post="59798"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Is that a fact?

[andy82471]

Is that a fact?

[post="59817"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Unfortunately, yes. GM's day as the top dog is coming to an end. Could happen by this time next year.

[mightymouse]

Unfortunately, yes. GM's day as the top dog is coming to an end. Could happen by this time next year.

[post="59824"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Wonderful. Maybe then the rabid media dogs of hell can start whining about Toyota's recalls and poor quality...yaayyy!
I wonder what it would be like if GM was an underdog?

[Sixty8panther]

Wonderful. Maybe then the rabid media dogs of hell can start whining about Toyota's recalls and poor quality...yaayyy! 
I wonder what it would be like if GM was an underdog?

[post="59833"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Somehow I'm not so optomistic... to some of the retards in the media Toyota is already #1 and it does not stop them from proclaiming every damn Lexus form being the best thing since the disposable tampon. <_<

[thegriffon]

Unfortunately, yes. GM's day as the top dog is coming to an end. Could happen by this time next year.

[post="59824"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Only if GM implodes. Toyota is putting in more capacity, but that may not mean they will have that many more sales so soon. Much of this increased capacity is for production of the Toyota Camry in China and Russia, with talk of even more capcity being added, you should be sceptical of how many Camrys they'll actually sell in markets where the most popular cars are under $6000 in price.

[76ChevyTrucker]

To me its simple, General Motors is the #1 car and truck company in the world. Even if the whole world says Toyota or someone else is, I will still firmly believe that GM is #1 only because I know that no matter what I can always depend on my Chevys, and when I had it, my Pontiac to get me from point a to point be as fast as I want, in as much style as I want and when it does eventually break, I CAN FIX IT, and save the money as compared to the Toyotas and Lexuses that my friends own because they're constantly in the shop, for days at a time.

[Drew Dowdell]

Toyota may sell more Camrys than GM sells Impalas. But they don't sell more Camrys them GM sells Impalas, Monte Carlos, Grand Prix, LaCross, Malibus, and LS-series.

[Newbiewar]

Toyota may make goobs of profit here... but other places GM is pounding them in sales and profit... like austrailia... i think Holden was making something like 3k a car or something and i think toyota was -300 bucks per car or something... it was an article i read a while back... toyota doesnt make money everywhere... but gm makes it everywhere but N.A.

[Guest gmrebirth]

Only if GM implodes. Toyota is putting in more capacity, but that may not mean they will have that many more sales so soon. Much of this increased capacity is for production of the Toyota Camry in China and Russia, with talk of even more capcity being added, you should be sceptical of how many Camrys they'll actually sell in markets where the most popular cars are under $6000 in price.

[post="59841"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Not totally true. Toyota is increasing capacity in North America, Japan, China, India, Russia, Australia, and the list goes on.

Ford fans refused to believe that Toyota was about to pass Ford as the world's #2 automaker in sales, but when it happened, Ford fans were in complete denial and on the defensive.

It's pretty obvious if you look at how much volume GM will lose from it's North American operations with all the plant shutdowns.

[Guest gmrebirth]

Toyota may make goobs of profit here... but other places GM is pounding them in sales and profit...

like austrailia... i think Holden was making something like 3k a car or something and i think toyota was -300 bucks per car or something... it was an article i read a while back... toyota doesnt make money everywhere... but gm makes it everywhere but N.A.

[post="59967"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Again, not true. There is a reason why Toyota is the world's richest automaker.

So far this year, Toyota Australia has posted a healthy profit.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/commo...55E1702,00.html

[I hope GMRULES again]

I can't believe that people in Michigan would not know that GM was the #1 automaker in the world. This just proves how many clueless people there are walking the streets. Your reference to Jay Leno's piece is a perfect example. All signs point to Toyota taking the #1 position and my response to that is when you are #1 there's only one way to go and that's down. Nobody can be #1 forever, companies, sports teams etc. #1 for 75 years is a pretty good streak. Let Toyota take the lead and the pressure will be off the General. Then they can take a page from Lee Iacocca's slogan from the 80's, "We don't want to be the biggest, we just want to be the best".

[CaddyXLR-V]

Not totally true. Toyota is increasing capacity in North America, Japan, China, India, Russia, Australia, and the list goes on.

Ford fans refused to believe that Toyota was about to pass Ford as the world's #2 automaker in sales, but when it happened, Ford fans were in complete denial and on the defensive.

It's pretty obvious if you look at how much volume GM will lose from it's North American operations with all the plant shutdowns.

[post="60101"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Read it again. Capacity doesnt equal sales. GM will not lose sales, only trim capacity to what it should be for GM's sales.

[Newbiewar]

Its the Tucker automaker... They make the most long lasting vehicles... i think last i checked, of the 50 ever made, 46 are still working... They are number one in my book... and they had those lights that adjust as you drive... wow... way to go lexus... 55 years later

[Newbiewar]

Again, not true. There is a reason why Toyota is the world's richest automaker.

So far this year, Toyota Australia has posted a healthy profit.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/commo...55E1702,00.html

[post="60105"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

in the same period Toyota made 76 million GM Holden profited 355 million...

this was the massive profit i was refering, and i think toyota has a larger market share...

[thegriffon]

Despite the constant calls for GM to cut models and divisions, GM sells more vehicles per model than Toyota does. Thanks to 5 seperate sales channels in Japan and regional variations Toyota (including Daihatsu) has just as many models as GM with fewer sales, and they've been cutting models and entire sales channels in recent years (as are Honda and Nissan) in order to save money. US-centric analysts need to open their eye and look at the bigger picture. Even Toyota makes stupid mistakes (first two generations of T100/Tundra, first two Avalons etc.) and the only thing holding GM back these days is the incredible growing healthcare ogre and defined benefits for people who don't even work for the company anymore. Demographics (a population skewed towards the retired) is as big a factor as increased competition here and a dramatic solution is required such as national, compulsory pension contributions with subsidies supported by a broad sales tax (given the impending crisis in Social Security, not too big a stretch). This is what the UAW should be mobilizing for, not putting Delphi and GM out of business. Get your union buddies and go picket Washington Gettelfinger.

[enzl]

Isn't this #1 producer only been an albatross anyway? The mindset kept GM from hacking away years ago when it would have made an enormous difference. As an example, Nissan was able to repay $20 billion in debt and sell 1 million more cars. It stands to reason that success could be repeated. A smaller, more nimble GM may enable them to stem the tide of defections with good product.

[Guest gmrebirth]

Read it again. Capacity doesnt equal sales. GM will not lose sales, only trim capacity to what it should be for GM's sales.

[post="60262"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Actually, in Toyota's case, capacity DOES equal sales. Unlike GM, Toyota is always running a bit under-capacity. Under Toyota's corporate philosophy, capacity is always slightly below demand.

The very reason GM is trimming capacity is because it's sales are dropping, as well as being overcapacity.

All the new capacity Toyota is adding is purely to satisfy market demand for their vehicles.

GM on the other hand is lowering capacity to meet market demand. GM is running way over-capacity right now.

This is not rocket-science. GM's sales at best will increase a bit, but if GM's North American sales continue to fall, global sales may remain flat, or even drop.

Toyota will experience an 8 - 10% global sales increase I'm guessing in 2006.

That would put GM and Toyota extremely close sales-wise in 2006, with the possibility of either one claiming top spot. Edited December 26, 2005 by gmrebirth

[Guest gmrebirth]

in the same period Toyota made 76 million GM Holden profited 355 million...

this was the massive profit i was refering, and i think toyota has a larger market share...

[post="62704"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You said

"i think toyota was -300 bucks per car or something... it was an article i read a while back... toyota doesnt make money everywhere... but gm makes it everywhere but N.A."

It seems like you made up some random fact that you "read in an article", and I proved Toyota does not lose any money in Australia, but they make profit. ANd didn't GM experience some loses in Europe in the past few years?

[Newbiewar]

You said

"i think toyota was -300 bucks per car or something... it was an article i read a while back... toyota doesnt make money everywhere... but gm makes it everywhere but N.A."

It seems like you made up some random fact that you "read in an article", and I proved Toyota does not lose any money in Australia, but they make profit. ANd didn't GM experience some loses in Europe in the past few years?

[post="63347"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

i dont know... i know for 2005 N.A. is the only losing sector...

[thegriffon]

Actually, in Toyota's case, capacity DOES equal sales. Unlike GM, Toyota is always running a bit under-capacity. Under Toyota's corporate philosophy, capacity is always slightly below demand.

[post="63346"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

This is a myth based entirely on the historical situation in the US. For many years Toyota's production has outstripped actual sales, will do so again in 2005 and is forecast, by Toyota no less, to do the same in 2006. In some regions where Toyota is building new plants there is no evidence upon which to gauge what actual sales will be. In others Toyota is either making a brilliant move that no-one else is smart enough to do, or is making a disastrous mistake by building plants in a product segment for which there is relatively little demand.

[capriceman]

Toyota may make goobs of profit here... but other places GM is pounding them in sales and profit...

like austrailia... i think Holden was making something like 3k a car or something and i think toyota was -300 bucks per car or something... it was an article i read a while back... toyota doesnt make money everywhere... but gm makes it everywhere but N.A.

[post="59967"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

isnt that ironic!

In the 50's they really didnt make profit any where but the NA now its the oppistie.

I have been asked that same question. They always thinks its Toyota because the media but I always show them monthly sales and say GM always sales more automobiles a month then any other automobile maker so they are the biggest auto maker.

In profit They could be. Reason not is because NA Material costs and Medical Cost and the Union Worker Wage.

Lets be real here in japan were some cars are made a person on the line doesn't make $80,000 a year and get full Health care for there ENTIRE family.

[Newbiewar]

Lets be real here in japan were some cars are made a person on the line doesn't make $80,000 a year and get full Health care for there ENTIRE family.

[post="63667"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

but lets not forget, the top three countries that provide the highest wages in the automotive sector...

first being Germany
Second being Japan
Thrid Being USA...

i dont recall the article exactly but Germany was like 50$ per hour, japan was near 43$ i think and USA was in the 30's i beleive for average wages.... Edited December 27, 2005 by Newbiewar

[capriceman]

you have to figure cost of living and how much there currency is worth in that country. if a bagel cost $1 here and cost $3.50 over in japan thats why the get paid more since the cost of living is higher. so it kind of equates out. Do you get what im trying to say or should i just go shoot myself? :P

[CaddyXLR-V]

You also have to consider total cost of labor(healthcare) and not just hourly wages.

[Newbiewar]

you have to figure cost of living and how much there currency is worth in that country. if a bagel cost $1 here and cost $3.50 over in japan thats why the get paid more since the cost of living is higher. so it kind of equates out. Do you get what im trying to say or should i just go shoot myself? :P

[post="63822"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

haha... i understand...

so in comparison, is the cost of living cheaper here then germany or japan?

[Guest gmrebirth]

This is a myth based entirely on the historical situation in the US. For many years Toyota's production has outstripped actual sales, will do so again in 2005 and is forecast, by Toyota no less, to do the same in 2006. In some regions where Toyota is building new plants there is no evidence upon which to gauge what actual sales will be. In others Toyota is either making a brilliant move that no-one else is smart enough to do, or is making a disastrous mistake by building plants in a product segment for which there is relatively little demand.

[post="63484"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

While it's fair enough that Toyota may not constantly have demand slightly above production, this is no myth. Fact is for many years, Toyota's supply has always closely paralleled demand. You don't see Toyota idling any factories, or running at a low production capacity.

[Newbiewar]

While it's fair enough that Toyota may not constantly have demand slightly above production, this is no myth. Fact is for many years, Toyota's supply has always closely paralleled demand. You don't see Toyota idling any factories, or running at a low production capacity.

[post="65372"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

haha i'm waiting, for the general to stand back up and toyota to suffer...

[griswold44]

Toyota won't necessarily go down the tube like GM did. First, GM has pretty much shown everyone what NOT to do when you're #1. Second, Toyota has already acknowledged what kills large companies, and they are already taking measures to prevent it. And third, GM's quality didn't fall because of their size, it fell because they just didn't care about what they built. If GM can improve their quality while still being large, then there is no reason why Toyota can't maintain theirs.

[Ravenfreak13]

how the toyota camry is #1 is beyond my belief...Some one open their camry door and all i saw was all one color...the most bland interior ever! so dull!

[The O.C.]

I can't believe that people in Michigan would not know that GM was the #1 automaker in the world. This just proves how many clueless people there are walking the streets. Your reference to Jay Leno's piece is a perfect example. All signs point to Toyota taking the #1 position and my response to that is when you are #1 there's only one way to go and that's down. Nobody can be #1 forever, companies, sports teams etc. #1 for 75 years is a pretty good streak. Let Toyota take the lead and the pressure will be off the General. Then they can take a page from Lee Iacocca's slogan from the 80's, "We don't want to be the biggest, we just want to be the best".

[post="60202"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well, I don't think they are necessary just "clueless."

I think this situation/thread really points to the nature of the true challenge GM is facing in this marketplace.....the perception problem they have with consumers in the marketplace...

(A perception problem, I might add, that GM fostered due to all the shoddy product they offered consumers for too many decades....and the well-built, BUT less-than-competitive or less-than-appealing product they are offering them now.) Edited February 5, 2006 by The O.C.

[Charger4U]

motortrend had an article on it, saying stats and what not