Info On Oil Filters

[Intrepidation]

This is from LH forums. Pretty neat info if you're looking for oil filters (besides the Mopar one, unless you own a Mopar).

Oil Filters - Dissected

I was wondering what the differences were between some of the current oil filters. The study done at Engine Oil Filter Study is quite dated. So, I bought some oil filters from the local stores, grabbed my hacksaw and away I went. All filters had an anti-back flow gasket.

Findings:

The basic Fram is still crap. Fewest pleats and therefore least amount of filter area. Cardboard end-caps.

The TG Fram is better. Still has cardboard end-caps but has 15% more filter media and a screened by-pass valve.

The XG Fram is, can't believe I'm saying this, a decent filter. This is the only filter tested that used a different type of filter media. It was more fiberglass in nature vs. paperish for all the rest and is supported with a metal mesh. So even though it has less area, it is 2-3 times as thick.

[Intrepidation]

STP and SuperTech are the exact same filter. Decent filter area but cheaply made and the felt end caps detached from the filter media with frightening ease. No by-pass valve.

Mopar and Purolator PremiumPlus are the exact same filter. Plenty of filter media with metal end caps which are impossible to remove from the filter media as seen by the dead Mopar filter.

Purolator PureOne and Bosch are the exact same filter. Largest amount of filter media with metal end caps which are also impossible to remove from the filter media.

All four of the latter are made by the same manufacture with the only difference between the two sets is the Mopar/Purolator PremiumPlus has the by-pass valve in the front, built into the stem..

...and the Bosch/Purolator PureOne has the by-pass valve located in the back via a 45-speed record adapter spring thingy along with 4 more pleats of filter media. Also, the PureOne has the best paint job. A nice royal blue w/ pearl coat

The Wix and NAPA Gold are the same filter but the NAPA Gold had 4 more pleats (61 vs 57) than the Wix. Was this by design or was it a machine assembly variance, probably the latter since everything else was exactly the same. The filters were similar to the Mopar and the Purolator PremiumPlus but made by someone else. They had a similar stem based by-base which was not attached to the filter media but loosely sits in the end-cap without a gasket. The Wix and NAPA Gold also had the second least amount of filter media. They had metal end-caps with the filter media permanently attached.

The Mobil 1 and the K&N are exactly the same filter less the 1" bung thingy on the K&N. Both are heavy due to their thick bases and smaller inlet holes. They too had the stem based by-pass valve firmly attached to the end-cap but only had 55 pleats, the second fewest. It did have the deepest pleats which equals fifth in area and the filter media was slightly thicker than most. Had metal end-caps with the filter media permanently attached.

Here the #'s (sorted by price):

[Blake Noble]

I'm taking the Fram back I was going to use on the Monte's upcoming oil change. I knew Fram filters were crap, but cardboard? Jesus, that's cheap.

Since I can't find the AC Delco filter at parts stores around here, I'm going with a Bosch if they have one that will fit.

[Intrepidation]

Yeah I'm not using Fram anymore besides maybe their TG line. Gonna go with Bosch, PureOne ore Mopar from now on.

[fightingbee]

Then there's AC-Delco, which these days is a crap shoot, although I often still by them, just from habit I guess. Sometimes it's made by AC, sometimes a WIX, sometimes the STP/Super Tech type filter. The ones on the Ecotec have been about four different kinds so far as well, mostly foreign brand stuff.

Edited August 15, 2009 by fightingbee

[mustang84]

I always used Fram on the Lumina, but I've started using Motorcraft for the LS. Too bad they didn't slice that one open...I'd be interested to see how it compares since they are $10.

[fightingbee]

Motorcraft IIRC at least used to be the same filtration as the Purolator PremiumPlus, but somtimes with the red silicone anti drain back seen in the PureONE instead of a black rubber one.

[mustang84]

Yep, I did a little googling and it looks to be made by Puralator with a slightly different filter element that is spec'd by Ford for longer life. It looks to be a pretty good filter.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbth...;Number=1521446

[Satty]

Just re-affirms my belief that Fram always has been, and always will be, crap. Anyone who uses a Fram anything deserves what they have coming. I do find it funny and sad that Fram is actually the top of the line brand at Wal-Mart.

[mustang84]

Here's a better pic comparing the Motorcraft (left) to Purolater Pure One (middle) and Purolater Premium Plus (right).

Here's another great oil filter comparo with nearly every brand on the market

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/reference.html

Edited August 16, 2009 by mustang84

[FAPTurbo]

Cool read, and I was surprised how cheap the Fram's were. I actually think it's a Fram that was last installed in my truck, so I'll be sure use one of the competitors if I can.

[daves87rs]

Nice filter read, but it's a little misleading though, DF.

The choice of filter you use depends quite a bit on your driving style, and your OCI (oil change interval)

Some people do dino and 3k OCIs, others may use a synthetic and 10k OCIs....it just depends.

Frams are okay , but as you can see by the construction, I would stick with 3000 mile oil changes.

Since I ran cartridge filters in my cars (all Ecotecs), I just need a good flowing filter.

I was running Wix/Napa Golds (very good filter, IMO), but I'm going back to AC Delcos, as they are not only well made, but made in the USA too.

Because I'm running synthetic in all my cars (Mobil 1, Napa Synthetic, Pennzoil Platinum), I'm bumping them all to 4k-4.5k OCIs ( We do a bunch of city driving)

STP and ST filters are made by Champ Labs (they also make many AC Delco filters), and they will be just fine to use and sleep well at night.

Of course, I think Wix/Napa Golds/Carquest reds are the best bang for buck.......

[daves87rs]

Just re-affirms my belief that Fram always has been, and always will be, crap. Anyone who uses a Fram anything deserves what they have coming. I do find it funny and sad that Fram is actually the top of the line brand at Wal-Mart.

For most of the general public, Fram will be just fine.

I expect better, so I buy better.

I'm the only person I know who had a Fram problem (media came apart in the can) when I had the wagon, so they have to be decent.

My neighbor has used them for over 20 years with no issues.....

[daves87rs]

I'm taking the Fram back I was going to use on the Monte's upcoming oil change. I knew Fram filters were crap, but cardboard? Jesus, that's cheap.

Since I can't find the AC Delco filter at parts stores around here, I'm going with a Bosch if they have one that will fit.

What part store do you have by you?

[Satty]

Some Wal-Marts carry AC Delco, every Autozone I've ever seen carries Delco as well.

[daves87rs]

Some Wal-Marts carry AC Delco, every Autozone I've ever seen carries Delco as well.

Yep, and Advance Auto too....

[fightingbee]

I was running Wix/Napa Golds (very good filter, IMO), but I'm going back to AC Delcos, as they are not only well made, but made in the USA too.

Check the actual filter before you buy.

When was selling Saturn parts some cases of the AC Delcos for the Ecotec started coming with filters made in Bulgaria as well. They were an OK looking filter but not nearly as nice looking as the previous Purflux and Hengst OEM'd filters, and they didn't snap into the the cap nearly as well. I snapped up a case of the USA made Hengst produced filters shortly thereafter.

Edited August 16, 2009 by fightingbee

[Daryl Z71]

I buy Mobil 1 period.

[PurdueGuy]

You guys are doing the same thing that so many people wrongly do - saying Frams are crap, ignoring that not all the Fram filters they dissected were crap. Yes, the cheap Frams are crap. But they said outright that the upper ones were pretty good. Thus, you can't just say Fram = crap.

I don't personally buy Fram oil filters, but I do get tired of the oversimplification, because it then spills over into assumptions of all Fram = crap, which isn't necessarily true. Just like everyone else, most of their stuff is relabeled from some other company, and you could avoid Fram and buy some other brand just to get the same crap half the time. Or it could be the same thing as the good brand. The generalization just doesn't work.

[daves87rs]

Check the actual filter before you buy.

When was selling Saturn parts some cases of the AC Delcos for the Ecotec started coming with filters made in Bulgaria as well. They were an OK looking filter but not nearly as nice looking as the previous Purflux and Hengst OEM'd filters, and they didn't snap into the the cap nearly as well. I snapped up a case of the USA made Hengst produced filters shortly thereafter.

Thanks for the info....and I do double check my filters. ALL of my filters are Hengst.......

I pick em up at AAP for 4.69 a filter. A good price for a good filter!

[daves87rs]

I buy Mobil 1 period.

Which is fine, but there are many good oils to choose from out there....

My Cav coupe loves it's Napa synthetic.

[daves87rs]

You guys are doing the same thing that so many people wrongly do - saying Frams are crap, ignoring that not all the Fram filters they dissected were crap. Yes, the cheap Frams are crap. But they said outright that the upper ones were pretty good. Thus, you can't just say Fram = crap.

I don't personally buy Fram oil filters, but I do get tired of the oversimplification, because it then spills over into assumptions of all Fram = crap, which isn't necessarily true. Just like everyone else, most of their stuff is relabeled from some other company, and you could avoid Fram and buy some other brand just to get the same crap half the time. Or it could be the same thing as the good brand. The generalization just doesn't work.

You might want to re-read my post then.

Frams are okay, and they do their job just fine.

But their many filters out there that are better for money you pay for fram....

Heck, ST filters are pretty good filters for the money..

[Intrepidation]

The XG Fram is the only one I would consider. The others are just garbage. Facts are facts: cardboard end caps with poor fitting and bad anti drain-back valve seal design that leaks. Leaky seals are not "ok" The XG is decent but the other stuff has no place in my cars.

[Camino LS6]

Once upon a time, Fram really made the best stuff - several takeovers later the story is different.

I use AC/Delco or NAPA Gold.

[Intrepidation]

Yeah I've heard they used to be good but the cost cutting and takeovers have turned them into mostly a joke.

[daves87rs]

The XG Fram is the only one I would consider. The others are just garbage. Facts are facts: cardboard end caps with poor fitting and bad anti drain-back valve seal design that leaks. Leaky seals are not "ok" The XG is decent but the other stuff has no place in my cars.

They still hold up decent. Depends On your OCI......

Though If I did use fram, it would be the XG....

[daves87rs]

Once upon a time, Fram really made the best stuff - several takeovers later the story is different.

I use AC/Delco or NAPA Gold.

Delco or Wix. (NAPA Golds are made by Wix) for me....

[Intrepidation]

What I know is this: running Castrol GTX High Mileage oil and a Fram filter, the Intrepid always had a cold startup tick. When it was warm the tick would last a couple seconds, when it was below 50 it would last until the car was fully warmed up. With the RP oil and filter there is no startup tick when its above 40 and the tick is only present for a second when it's say, 17 degrees out, even after sitting for days. That's all I need to say goodbye to conventional oil and piss off to Fram.

[WS61400]

My father in law works at the Purolater plant in Fayetteville, NC and he has told me several times that the best filtrating filter they have is the regular FL-1A. I always buy NAPA Gold though.

[balthazar]

NAPA / Wix here.

FL-1A is a 'big boy' filter, my 300 Ford took them; no doubt the volume of filtration material has something to do with it being a 'good one', tho I thought 'FL-1A' was a Motorcraft designation.

Most filters are too small anymore, IMO.

[Intrepidation]

Agreed on the too small part. I'm thinking about using an oversized filter for the 3.5. On 2.7 engines the filter is located on the oil pan, facing down. Any longer and it'll be kissing pavement. On 3.2/3/5 engines its mounted in the side of the engine, making it possible to use a bigger filter.

You can see the normal filter on this 3.5 being yanked out of an Intrepid.

An the oversized filter on the replacement 3.5...

[balthazar]

A LOT of the AC Delco filters got way too small. PF-24 was the 'regular' sized unit, but a common modern one was the PF-47, a 'small' one. They should never be smaller than the old PF-24s, IMO, regardless of the engine or oil recommendation.

[pow]

Filters of the same brand do vary, though I've noticed Purolators tend to be of decent quality. The Purolator L40316 used on the Passat 1.8t is ginormous... made by Mann in Germany:

The Purolator I use on the Ody V6 is tiny but made in the US.

Edited December 25, 2009 by pow

[daves87rs]

Filters of the same brand do vary, though I've noticed Purolators tend to be of decent quality. The Purolator L40316 used on the Passat 1.8t is ginormous... made by Mann in Germany:

The Purolator I use on the Ody V6 is tiny but made in the US.

Wow!

[Intrepidation]

Some more good info: http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/reference.html

More proof that Fram makes junk for the most part. I'm sticking with PureOne, Royal Purple, Mobil 1, Bosch, or K&N. Only the best for my cars.

[A Horse With No Name]

NAPA / Wix here.

FL-1A is a 'big boy' filter, my 300 Ford took them; no doubt the volume of filtration material has something to do with it being a 'good one', tho I thought 'FL-1A' was a Motorcraft designation.

Most filters are too small anymore, IMO.

I agree on the size thing.

[daves87rs]

Some more good info: http://minimopar.kni.../reference.html

More proof that Fram makes junk for the most part. I'm sticking with PureOne, Royal Purple, Mobil 1, Bosch, or K&N. Only the best for my cars.

Eh, a filter is a filter (No china ones though), depends on how long you use it...

The orange can of doom doesn't scare me....

[Intrepidation]

Eh, a filter is a filter (No china ones though), depends on how long you use it...

The orange can of doom doesn't scare me....

All filters are not created equal. Do a little a little research and you'll see just how unequal some of them really are. AC Delco Duraguard, STP, Pennzoil, Quaker State, Ecore Champ filters, and any Fram besides the Tough Guard (which I still wouldn't buy) are no where near as good (or even good) as the filters I mentioned in my last post.

I care about my car far too much to put substandard parts, fluids, and filters in it.

[Drew Dowdell]

I like the PureOnes... I'm not really concerned about any oil pressure spikes because of the engines I'm running.

Slight tangent - is there any point to putting synthetic into the Toronado now that it has 90k on the clock? It's about time for her first oil change on my watch... last one was performed just before I purchased it.

[Intrepidation]

Synthetic has superior lubricating properties to conventional oil, it also handles high temperatures better and doesn't brake down like conventional oil will. Both cars use Mobil 1, and with the Intrepid in particular, it runs noticeably smoother (especially on cold starts) with M1 and a good filter than conventional and a POS Fram. Comes out much cleaner too.

But don't take my word for it:

40k on this one:

This engine's got 250k on it.

[Drew Dowdell]

Right, but if they started out with synthetic as opposed to switching to synthetic at 90k miles.... that's the question..... is there any point at this point?

[Intrepidation]

The 3.5 started out from start, the Ram was switched over.

Like I said, synthetic offer superior lubrication to conventional oil. That alone makes it worth it in my book. You cans witch to synthetic at any time. The Prizm has 196k when I switched it and the Intrepid's 3.5 had 125k when I switched.

[daves87rs]

All filters are not created equal. Do a little a little research and you'll see just how unequal some of them really are. AC Delco Duraguard, STP, Pennzoil, Quaker State, Ecore Champ filters, and any Fram besides the Tough Guard (which I still wouldn't buy) are no where near as good (or even good) as the filters I mentioned in my last post.

I care about my car far too much to put substandard parts, fluids, and filters in it.

You're kinda missing the point, DF. You buy the filter you need for the OCI you plan to do.( City, highway, etc.)

Much of it is going to depend on the driving style and the milage being but on the oil. Like using a M1 oil and filter for a 3k all highway oil change. That would be a waste of money when plain old dino oil could be used....

Trust me, I know all about this stuff. I put in the best the common sense allows.

I say that knowing I'm running M1, Quaker State UD full synthetic( Dexos 1 approved), and Napa full synthetic (Valvoline private brand) with AC delco cartridges (hengst USA made) in my cars right. now.

The really no such thing as wrong when you care for your car. So you're doing fine!

Edited October 17, 2010 by daves87rs

[daves87rs]

I like the PureOnes... I'm not really concerned about any oil pressure spikes because of the engines I'm running.

Slight tangent - is there any point to putting synthetic into the Toronado now that it has 90k on the clock? It's about time for her first oil change on my watch... last one was performed just before I purchased it.

Just buy M1 High milage or Valvoline Maxlife Full syntheric (It's out there!) if you're worried about the car leaking from the seals and gaskets (It might, depending on car the engine was cared for.) The only thing you would have to be worried about is if the full syn is cleaning out build up in there( deposit wise)....that would cause the leaks.

If the engine was well cared for, I'd just go M1 then...

[Intrepidation]

A healthy engine will run synthetic just fine no matter the miles. If you're worried about oil damaging it then you have much bigger problems with that engine to worry about.

[Intrepidation]

You're kinda missing the point, DF. You buy the filter you need for the OCI you plan to do.( City, highway, etc.)

Much of it is going to depend on the driving style and the milage being but on the oil. Like using a M1 oil and filter for a 3k all highway oil change. That would be a waste of money when plain old dino oil could be used....

Trust me, I know all about this stuff. I put in the best the common sense allows.

I say that knowing I'm running M1, Quaker State UD full synthetic( Dexos 1 approved), and Napa full synthetic (Valvoline private brand) with AC delco cartridges (hengst USA made) in my cars right. now.

The really no such thing as wrong when you care for your car. So you're doing fine!

There is if say, the filter design is insufficient. Oil is only as good as the filter that's keeping it clean. Driving style has nothing to do with how well a filter works, the design and construction of he filter do. You're welcome to use paper media held together by cardboard and glue with poor ant drain back valve design, but I won't. Especially when quality filters like PureOne are often bundled with oil change deals.

[daves87rs]

There is if say, the filter design is insufficient. Oil is only as good as the filter that's keeping it clean. Driving style has nothing to do with how well a filter works, the design and construction of he filter do. You're welcome to use paper media held together by cardboard and glue with poor ant drain back valve design, but I won't. Especially when quality filters like PureOne are often bundled with oil change deals.

*sigh*

Anyways, we could agrue all day, but it simply comes down to what you like.

I've used Frams before on my wagon and old s10, and never had a problem. Never ran them for more than 3k though. I'll never buy the cheap stuff (like those chinese sub 2 buck filters), beacuse those I would be worried about.

I've help put supertech, STP, Fram filter's on my brother's Caliber (He's not too heavy into car maintance), the the car is still in good shape at 65k. I wish I would have taken a picture of the cover...and tiny bit of varnish, but it was in really good shape for a I'll take-care-of-it-when-I-have-time car.

I use the good stuff because I like my cars, and I expect a lot out of them.

I've been running nothing but M1 and delco/wix fliters in the wife's Cav, and when I had to take the cover off to adjust the gasket, it was very clean inside.

A healthy engine will run synthetic just fine no matter the miles. If you're worried about oil damaging it then you have much bigger problems with that engine to worry about.

Agreed!

[Drew Dowdell]

Older vehicles almost always leak something... I fully expect that I'll need to do the valve cover gaskets this winter after I've switched the car now to full synthetic..... but this is a 30 year old car that I'm trying to preserve. If it needs gaskets... it'll get gaskets.

[daves87rs]

Yep! After running M1 for years, I'm going to have to replace the oil pan gasket, as it's seeping out a bit. Other than that, I'm a happy camper!

[A Horse With No Name]

Always something in a thirty year old car....

Trying to preserve a ten year old one is enough of a struggle for me right now....