Tookie: Live or Die?

[AH-HA]

So, should the Took man live or die?

[NOS2006]

Give me a brief analysis of both sides. All I know is he's huge and a Crip, right?

[Flybrian]

He co-founded the Crips and murdered several people, including three Taiwanese immigrants of the same family for what amounted to be like $100. But...he wrote children's books.

[NOS2006]

Oh. Were they good? Have any literary merit? I doubt it.

[sciguy_0504]

Exactly, fly. You kill 4 people and then "change your life around" by dismissing gang violence and lecturing kids about it so you shouldn't be punished for what you've done. Truth is, he refuses to even snitch in his fellow gang members which would do a lot more than lecturing kids on gang violence. Race is also playing a huge factor in this. If it wasn't an African American sitting in there we wouldn't be hearing anything about this.

[Croc]

Well he's dying. I don't know how I feel exactly. I'm for the death penalty in instances where there is zero doubt (not beyond reasonable...there cannot be ANY doubt whatsoever in a death penalty case IMO)...but at the same time I am wrestling with the ethical implications of the prosecution arguing that someone should die on the appeals. To me, that almost seems like advocating legal murder. I dunno if I'm articulating this clearly...but I have no problem with the death sentence being handed out...I just don't know how I feel that on appeal the prosecution was actively advocating the death penalty...It would be so much easier for my mind if it were just the defense arguing against it and the judge making a decision to overturn or uphold the sentence based on the arguments. Actively advocating for someone's death just seems wrong to me...

[Dragon]

I voted no simply because I don't believe in the death penalty

[razoredge]

Line em all up and mow em all down, fear is the only detourant and bullits and mops are cheap.

[Chris_Doane]

Line em all up and mow em all down, fear is the only detourant and bullits and mops are cheap.

[post="57590"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Brilliant. :rolleyes:

Go ask some gang bangers how many times the fear of the death penalty has stopped them from shooting someone. Never. Most gang members probably wouldn't live long enough to be prosecuted.

Go ask a psychopath like the "BTK killer" if he was scared of it. He wasn't. He's a loon.

Go ask anyone on death row if the fear of the death penalty made them think twice. Obviously it didn't. They're there.

If you're already thinking about doing something worthy of the death penalty, chances are you aren't in the right frame of mind to be worried about the death penalty.

Also, no one has been executed by firing squad in about 10 years. And even then people were horrified they were still doing it that way. Leave it to Utah. :rolleyes:

Spell check is cheap too, you know. In fact...included with most computers. Isn't "detourant" something you use to clean pots and pans? Edited December 13, 2005 by CD/BP

[razoredge]

DILLIGAF Line em all up and mow em down, its certainly a better fought battle than crying about someones spelling problems

[Croc]

:rolleyes: Chris, just smile and nod, smile and nod...

[Chris_Doane]

DILLIGAF

Line em all up and mow em down, its certainly a better fought battle than crying about someones spelling problems

[post="57609"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

LoL...crying? Who's crying? Just thought a man of your age might not want to make posts that appear to be from a 10 year old. Heh, but nevermind what you look like...

:rolleyes:

Chris, just smile and nod, smile and nod...

[post="57616"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Oops, too late. Edited December 13, 2005 by CD/BP

[ocnblu]

Just because someone isn't afraid of the death penalty, doesn't mean the sentence should not be carried out. Justice was served here.

[Croc]

Just because someone isn't afraid of the death penalty, doesn't mean the sentence should not be carried out.  Justice was served here.

[post="57638"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree with this. I just know that if I were the prosecuting attourney I'd feel wrong advocating for someone to die. Would I be against the death penalty? No...but I wouldn't be able to argue FOR it with a clean conscience.

[Chris_Doane]

Just because someone isn't afraid of the death penalty, doesn't mean the sentence should not be carried out.  Justice was served here.

[post="57638"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I dont know if you were directing that at me, but my comments were about the death penalty overall, not this specific case. However, obviously the death penalty didnt stop Tookie either.

[razoredge]

Ah yes, I see the mature fellas are doing the old team up.....as usual....Im so surprised....first names and everything. Very very impressive. Actually I have never tried to speel that word before, ever. I knew it didnt look right and didnt care. I went that way because of detour. Im not going to copy and paste all my post over to word pad to please the oh so important ones. I figure a mispelled word here and there can be let go but theres that 10 year old mentality of mine. Thanks for the insult I would have been disappointed if you let it go, it would have been so out of your character. Thanks for not letting me down. In reality I believe the bleeding heart, spend 100,000 per year per criminal has gotten us nowhere. Seems strange to me that people would be OK with a criminal costing 100,000 + per year but in the next breath would be wishing contributing citizens work for 14,000 - 28,000 per year. See I still have those 10 year old priorities. Did I speel that right ? :lol:

[Croc]

It costs more to carry out a death sentence than it does to keep them incarcerated for life.

[NOS2006]

It costs more to carry out a death sentence than it does to keep them incarcerated for life.

[post="57660"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

True, but when the jails get too full, they get released.

They need to just get rid of 'em. And I don't mean they need to put 'em back on the streets.

[97regalGS]

It costs more to carry out a death sentence than it does to keep them incarcerated for life.

[post="57660"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

then they're not doing it right. a guy, a gun, a couple of bullets. shouldn't cost that much.

[razoredge]

I agree with this.  I just know that if I were the prosecuting attourney I'd feel wrong advocating for someone to die.  Would I be against the death penalty?  No...but I wouldn't be able to argue FOR it with a clean conscience.

[post="57642"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree it would have to be quite a rush standing there demanding a death sentence.

But then what if you know what this person did and what they stood for and see it all the time and its your job and you make 100,000+ and these faces and names become a blur so many never get what they deserve yep must be some job

I have seen programs about axeman, and henchmen and they stated that many took their own lifes after awhile. Hard to sleep nights, ey ?

[Croc]

True, but when the jails get too full, they get released.

They need to just get rid of 'em. And I don't mean they need to put 'em back on the streets.

[post="57665"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The jails are full because of the criminalization of nonviolent drug offenses.

[aaaantoine]

I can't allow myself to support the death penalty. Just pluck them out of society and put them in solitary to prevent any repeat offenses. But don't kill them. Someone might argue that life sentences costs costs more to taxpayers. But think hard about it. What's cheaper? Feeding someone every day for the rest of his life, or paying all the legal fees to get through all the appellate courts to rule out all possibilities and finally cook him after 3 - 10 years?

[Chris_Doane]

Ah yes, I see the mature fellas are doing the old team up.....as usual....Im so surprised....first names and everything. Very very impressive.

:lol:

Yes, we are out to get you. As is the whole world. :rolleyes:

Hah...oh and if it makes you feel any better, I have no idea what Croc's first or last name is.

What is it? Edited December 13, 2005 by CD/BP

[razoredge]

It costs more to carry out a death sentence than it does to keep them incarcerated for life.

[post="57660"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

and thus we come to my foolish opening comment

truth, more jobs for urban areas, less stress on jobs for the healthy that still snap, less intrusive behavior taught and shown by more people, things along that lines would or could have more of a long term ease on the use of crime.

I dont know what do you think.....class ?...... :P

[LosAngeles]

Doesn't this amount to political talk?

[Croc]

I dunno what I think about it because I have no idea what you are trying to say.

[Croc]

Doesn't this amount to political talk?

[post="57685"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No. Do you see partisan politics entering into this? With the exception of razor's "bleeding heart" comment, no.

If you don't like it, you don't have to post...but the rest of us would like to have an enlightening discussion.

[razoredge]

I dunno what I think about it because I have no idea what you are trying to say.

[post="57686"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

what didnt you understand ?

truth, more jobs for urban areas, less stress on jobs for the healthy that still snap, less intrusive behavior taught and shown by more people, things along that lines would or could have more of a long term ease on the use of crime.

Edited December 13, 2005 by razoredge

[Sixty8panther]

Brilliant. :rolleyes:

Go ask some gang bangers how many times the fear of the death penalty has stopped them from shooting someone. Never. Most gang members probably wouldn't live long enough to be prosecuted.

Go ask a psychopath like the "BTK killer" if he was scared of it. He wasn't. He's a loon.

Go ask anyone on death row if the fear of the death penalty made them think twice. Obviously it didn't. They're there.

If you're already thinking about doing something worthy of the death penalty, chances are you aren't in the right frame of mind to be worried about the death penalty.

Also, no one has been executed by firing squad in about 10 years. And even then people were horrified they were still doing it that way. Leave it to Utah. :rolleyes:

Spell check is cheap too, you know. In fact...included with most computers. Isn't "detourant" something you use to clean pots and pans?

[post="57593"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

First off as long as the speling is good enough to get the jist who gives a damn? This is not the NY Times or JAMA. I'm not going to type my posts in Word and transfer them over after they've been spellchecked. My time is more precious than that.

Second all of what you said is correct and is in my opinion ALL THE MORE reason to hand out the death penalty.

How many child molestors and sick F***s have an opportunity to get parolled an repeat their crimes? Personally I'd love to see the death penalty used a lot more often.

Those that live by the sword DIE by the sword. If someone I love was hurt/killed/raped and the guilty party got the death penalty I'd be happy about it. Not for revenge but for the simple fact that we need to eradicate them from the world and gene pool.

[Croc]

what didnt you understand ?

[post="57692"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Your sentence lacked a clear subject, predicate, and point. I have no idea what your transcribed thought process had to do with the topic. Could you please explain it in different words and elaborate on your points? The syntax is particularly heinous.

[razoredge]

Its always been kinda sick to throw em in the dungeon too. Today is by no means a dungeon. We know one person that has had a very sticky finger problem and spent as much time in jail to be comfortable with it because in jail you get your basic life. You dont have to steal and you dont have to work. Still I would not want to be there.

[Sixty8panther]

I say people like terrorists, violent child molestors & murdering rapists deserve to die and not in a nice friendly way like the needle. A hanging or execution via firing squad would be 100% okay by me. If someone ever hurts a member of my family they better damn well hope they get executed by the state because I'll do much worse to them given the chance. Someone I love actaully was raped, stabbed and left for dead and let me tell you the guilty party could die a horrible death and I'd feel NO remorse. Some people are just numb, sick and beyond help. If I was 100% certain they'd NEVER harm another person, that no slick bastard of a lawyer would get them released etc. I'd have no problem with life sentance in solitary confinement. But all too often these degenerates manage to hurt over and over again. In either case the #1 problem is the amount of peole who are wrongly acused, imprisoned and sentanced to life, death or even a long sentance. So what do you think?

[razoredge]

Your sentence lacked a clear subject, predicate, and point.  I have no idea what your transcribed thought process had to do with the topic.  Could you please explain it in different words and elaborate on your points?  The syntax is particularly heinous.

[post="57701"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

well gee, now that you put it that way, why would I ?

Your saying that is above your level of understanding ? or comprehension maybe ?

subject - work & prosperity
predicate - on chrime
point - long term results, helping toward prevention of the criminal life

:unsure:

[NOS2006]

YES

[bobo]

Do you completely trust the government to make a irreversible action? I don't. It can be said that nowadays the killing of innocent is perhaps less than in the past, but it's still going to happen. I also don't think it's ethical, has any deterrent value, nor is cost-effective unless the number appeals goes down drastically. But if that happens, the number of innocent people killed will go up.

[CSpec]

No, mainly because of the amount of wrongful executions that are committed. Say there are 5 cases a year where everyone agrees someone should die, there are several others that are more hazy. It would make much more sense to give all of them life in prison. People can live with those 5 sickos rotting in solitary confinement. Plus, it costs a lot more to execute someone and clogs up the court system more than it already is.

[Croc]

No. You didn't explain at all how any of those results related to the cost of killing them being higher than the cost of life without parole. In fact, I could barely make out the points you were trying to make (in some cases I still cannot) because your grammar is so atrocious. Trust me, if a sentence is properly written it will make sense to me.

[razoredge]

or you just dont want to respond

[capriceman]

One Comment KILL UM ALLLLLLL!!!! Im dead serious! If we kill people for robing stores and killing other people Then other people would be to scared to do crimes thus bringing crime rates down. Also if you think a insane killer doesnt deserve to be killed then I would gladly post bail for him and have you "take care of him" since you think he desevres to live. And Prove me that he can be healed of his Mental problems. before he goes insane and kills you. (B.V. He has differnt mental problems :P

[Chris_Doane]

Second all of what you said is correct and is in my opinion ALL THE MORE reason to hand out the death penalty.

How many child molestors and sick F***s have an opportunity to get parolled an repeat their crimes? Personally I'd love to see the death penalty used a lot more often.

Those that live by the sword DIE by the sword. If someone I love was hurt/killed/raped and the guilty party got the death penalty I'd be happy about it. Not for revenge but for the simple fact that we need to eradicate them from the world and gene pool.

[post="57693"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Mmm...Im not sure I get what you're saying.

Im saying the death penalty doesn't really deter the kind of people committing crimes worthy of it.

It sounds like you're saying because those criminals AREN'T afraid of it, we should put them to death. More/less if the death penatly wont stop them, kill them. Your last sentence is starting to sound a little like a sort of ethnic cleansing for criminals. Criminal cleansing if you will. Im certainly not defending whack jobs who go on killing sprees...but...that idea sounds like an awfully dangerous one.

(No Im NOT comparing your idea to ethnic cleansing, I just didn't know how else to illustrate my idea)

[Sixty8panther]

Sure... call it "violent criminal cleansing" you will not insult me.

Someone who commits a premeditaded, violent and hatefull act against society deserves IMHO to die.


People like Scott Perterson and the real :rolleyes: killer of Nicole Simpson and esp. people who hurt and kill kids. They are the worst scumbags out there. I mean Scott kills his wife and unborn child and desposes of the bodys on Chrismas eve. That is a person wiht no soul. I really do not think that he could be punished enough by modern execution. The firing sqaud would be too good for that @$$hole.

I'm not a bad person but if anyone hurt my daughter in that way I would be happy to see them fed to the sharks or worse.


Go ahead, call me an extremist, republican, nutcase or whatever.

Ghandi said "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"... there's some truth to that, but I sure as hell will not "turn the other cheek" to rapists and violent criminals! Edited December 13, 2005 by Sixty8panther

[Croc]

or you just dont want to respond

[post="57726"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No, I really, honestly have no idea what your post was saying. Now what is so hard to understand about THAT?

[Guest Josh]

Can we have a thread on C&G with absolutely nobody bitching? It would be nice.

[Robert Hall]

I can't allow myself to support the death penalty.  Just pluck them out of society and put them in solitary to prevent any repeat offenses.  But don't kill them.

Someone might argue that life sentences costs costs more to taxpayers.

But think hard about it.  What's cheaper?  Feeding someone every day for the rest of his life, or paying all the legal fees to get through all the appellate courts to rule out all possibilities and finally cook him after 3 - 10 years?

The problem is that the death penality is inneffficent the way it is done today...I think they need an instant death penality---the judge sentences, then five min. later a bullet to the head...

I'm definitely a bleeding-heart liberal, but I have no problem with a more efficient system of terminating convicted murderers, pedophiles, car thieves, etc.. Edited December 13, 2005 by moltar

[Robert Hall]

I'm for the death penality, but the current system is innefficient and inneffective. I'm a liberal Democrat, but believe in law & order..

[Cory Wolfe]

I definitely believe in the death penalty... but only if I get to do the executing. Fun, really fun. I'd love my job. I would. A kill a day, keeps mental illness away. It'd be great therapy. It would. Don't doubt me, I know everything. It would work. :lol: :D Anyways, if I did something that warrants the death penalty (I probably will), I think I'd rather die than sit in jail for the rest of my life. That could be considered a bad thing, though. But also a good thing as it would rid the world of my evil ass. Hmm... :P Weird, they were just talking about this on TV... :blink:

[turbo200]

Do you completely trust the government to make a irreversible action?  I don't.  It can be said that nowadays the killing of innocent is perhaps less than in the past, but it's still going to happen.  I also don't think it's ethical, has any deterrent value, nor is cost-effective unless the number appeals goes down drastically.  But if that happens, the number of innocent people killed will go up.

[post="57717"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

agreed.

[Cory Wolfe]

Can we have a thread on C&G with absolutely nobody bitching? It would be nice.

[post="57753"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:metal:

Anyways, he wrote some children's books... How can we possibly kill a man who done that? We just can't. :lol: :P

Haha... I say kill him. Although, the current system is quite f**ked up. It should not cost more to kill than it does to be in jail for life. It should be simple... get a gun and just shoot. Easy. If it's deserved, there should be no delays and no BS. Just get it done and cremate the bodies. :D

[funkypunnk]

An eye for an eye you stupid SOB! I want him and all other killers executed and I want it done more efficiently. They should give the victim's families the right to choose and perform the execution. If I had a loved one this idiot killed I would put a rat in a steel bowl and duct tape it to his belly and watch the rat eat its' way out. How any sane minded person is defending this P.O.S. right to live is beyond me. Just goes to show you that bleeding heart liberals will fight for any cause if it fits their agenda, even if the cause is such a degenerate!

[Nick]

Sounds like someone's been watching a little too much Fast and Furious :P Anyways, Tookie is going down at 12:01 A.M. I'll probably wake up to L.A. up in flames.