Yes, another used vehicle thread...

[GMTruckGuy74]

So Saturday night after taking my family out to dinner at a Japanese Hibachi restaurant for the little guy's birthday (he's 4 years old now!), we ride through a couple of GM dealership lots so I can see what vehicles they have (I was looking for G8s, but also anything else that caught my eye). My wife on the other hand feels we should be going used for now to get "more car for less buck", which does make sense. While I was looking at the 2 remaining G8s on the BPG lot, she was looking at a used 2006 Buick Terraza CXL FWD. Afterwards, at the Chevy dealer across the street, while me and the little guy were looking at 'Bumblebe' (his name for the all-new Camaro), she was checking out a 2007 Saturn Relay FWD. She really wants us to have a minivan, she's always liked them and wanted one, and knows I won't buy anything other than GM.

So, what can someone tell me about the 2006 and 2007 Saturn Relay, Buick Terraza, and Pontiac Montana SV6? The ones we found Saturday night have between 30-35k on the odo and are in the range of $16-$18k in price. Should we stay away from these vans, and if yes, why? Remember, I need to tell the wife the reasons why.

As for me, I'm looking into another, older used car in the meantime. However, I still haven't given up on going new and with GM offering leases again for certain 2010 models (so far the Acadia & Equinox would be on my list, but if I wait until the Terrain comes out that too might be offered for leasing), I'm keeping that option open too.

[Intrepidation]

If you're going to bu a Minivan, you should buy a Chrysler van. They're the only ones with folding second and third row seats. The whole point of a minivan is practicality, to maximize people and stuff hauling ability. No other vans do that better. The only other van worth considering is the Odyssey because it's more "fun" to drive and has a nicer interior.

As for the GM vans, after the extensive update at least they were no longer unsafe in a head on collision, but side impact results were still pretty poor.

My :twocents:

[pow]

Yep, I've heard reliability horror stories on them, and they're not exactly the safest.

[daves87rs]

Solid vans.

Neighbor has a 05 Uplander w/121k, no issues to speak of.

[regfootball]

the only vans i would consider are the routan, quest. odyssey is tinny and loud. chrysler vans are ok but the routan looks nicer. but if you view the uplander terraza etc. as an alternative to a 3 row SUV, then its not a bad idea. 3 rows of seats and more room than say, a cx-9.

plus those vans can be had with AWD.

i'd suggest an extended warranty but honestly any issues with the manifold gaskets were corrected in 04 i think. and the only other thing to obsess about would be the 4wd system and tranny which would be covered by the std 5/100 gm warranty.

[fightingbee]

The electric sliding door system is a total piece of crap IMO. Other than that they were OK, not really outstanding though.

A few other smaller things I saw working at Saturn:

The Front wheel bearing/ABS sensor did need replacement on a few, was a bigger deal when American Axle went on strike for a few months.

Had to replace the radio and/or DVD unit on a few as well. And the front rotors seemed to warp easily.

If you decide to get one, the '07 came with the 3.9L standard instead of the 3.5L. The Buick w/ leather is the nicest looking inside, followed by the Saturn IMO.

Edited August 10, 2009 by fightingbee

[vonVeezelsnider]

We had four U-Body vans. 1 3.8L Trans Sport Dustbuster and 3 Venture LS LWBs. They were all great to us, reliable and well made. We were originally looking at an Uplander LT but we bought a W-Body instead.

With these final gen vans the quality is NOT THERE AT ALL. RUN DON`T WALK. We drove one and there is an obvious quality fall from Venture to Uplander. I`ve heard nothing but horror stories on these vans, from electrical gremlins to build quality related issues these things are possessed.

[Justin Bimmer]

reg, you know the VW van is a Chrysler van right?

[caddycruiser]

With these final gen vans the quality is NOT THERE AT ALL. RUN DON`T WALK. We drove one and there is an obvious quality fall from Venture to Uplander. I`ve heard nothing but horror stories on these vans, from electrical gremlins to build quality related issues these things are possessed.

I was never impressed with the quality of the '97-04 models, but they generally had nice driving dynamics and lots of people clearly liked them. If not for the infamous 3.4L intake gasket issues, they were quite strong on the lack of big problems front, just typical late 90's plasticky GM "stuff". Some loose parts, lots of rattles and creaks, and shiny stuff galore inside.

Otherwise, the '05-08 models certainly had a more solid structure and higher quality/better interior design, but it seems like they had more than their share of trim, electrical, and other issues. Anything from alternator redesigns to try and quell headlight dimming/radio-DVD hissing issues, radios crapping out, a few clunks and such from the front and back end suspension, and--despite the more solid build--weird quality issues like side moldings that refused to stay attached and such. AND, earlier or later versions, the same problematic power sliding door system. Funny, GM was the first to do it, and in the end without ever updating the design much, it became the worst and most trouble prone.

Some have been very good, others have not. If shopping the GM vans, I'd be most inclined to stick to an '07-08 and most likely a Terrazza with the standard independent rear, extra quieting, and slightly better interior trimmings.

If van considering, GM blinders on aside, I would definitely make sure to drive a few other similarly used brand's models and see what you think. None are perfect and most are quite different from one another, especially in the build-refinement-reliability categories, none acing them all, but a few getting a lot closer than others.

By the way...I oddly LOVE minivans. Something to do with the '97 Grand Voyager we had, my grandfather's '97 Aerostar, and a few others. Just love 'em.

Edited August 11, 2009 by caddycruiser

[Intrepidation]

I was never impressed with the quality of the '97-04 models, but they generally had nice driving dynamics and lots of people clearly liked them.

Lots? I want to se the sales numbers then. I've seen less than 10 of these vans that weren't fleet since the came out.

[Satty]

I haven't seen one in years. When talking minivans, I'd put just about everything (except the crap Ford was peddling) above the U-vans.

[Satty]

Lots? I want to se the sales numbers then. I've seen less than 10 of these vans that weren't fleet since the came out.

And just for funsies:

2005 total-132,465

2006 total-90,918

2007 total-78,287

2008 total-41,230

I'm pretty sure that if you Google "Pathetic+Sales" you get a picture of the Montana SV6.

[vonVeezelsnider]

I was never impressed with the quality of the '97-04 models, but they generally had nice driving dynamics and lots of people clearly liked them. If not for the infamous 3.4L intake gasket issues, they were quite strong on the lack of big problems front, just typical late 90's plasticky GM "stuff". Some loose parts, lots of rattles and creaks, and shiny stuff galore inside.

earlier or later versions, the same problematic power sliding door system.

All 3 Ventures we had had the Power Sliding Door and we hadn't one problem with it- no troubles with the engine either. All three had bad seals around the windscreen that caused some staining on the headliner. The 2005 had a squeaky rear suspension that we could never sort out. Otherwise things worked out quite well.

[vonVeezelsnider]

And just for funsies:

2005 total-132,465

2006 total-90,918

2007 total-78,287

2008 total-41,230

I'm pretty sure that if you Google "Pathetic+Sales" you get a picture of the Montana SV6.

He was talking about the 97-04 Venture.

[Satty]

He was talking about the 97-04 Venture.

Our sales tickers dont go back that far and I dont feel like perusing GM's media site.

[daves87rs]

All 3 Ventures we had had the Power Sliding Door and we hadn't one problem with it- no troubles with the engine either. All three had bad seals around the windscreen that caused some staining on the headliner. The 2005 had a squeaky rear suspension that we could never sort out. Otherwise things worked out quite well.

I'm liking that last Venture...

My dad has an 2003 base extended van, and that Venture is as tough as nails....

[Intrepidation]

They've got a long wheelbase Venture like that last one running around in the junkyard...has a really bad knock but they use it to haul their tools and crap around. I was there the day it was brought in.

[Justin Bimmer]

I don't know. I was in a rental Terreza. It rattled and had trim falling off of it. I would prefer a lambda if you had the money.

[Blake Noble]

Yes, if you can, buy a used Acadia rather than one of the U-Vans.

I'm surprised that no one mentioned how narrow these vans are.

[daves87rs]

They are okay for me....

[regfootball]

The manifold gaskets were with the 3.4, not the 3.5 or 3.9. For a used van, the U vans are a swingin' deal.

the 3.5 gets good FE i hear, but i have seen user reports in various cars with the 3.9 that suggests its a gas hog.

[regfootball]

reg, you know the VW van is a Chrysler van right?

a better looking one, yes. better dash, and slightly different suspension tune. the 4.0 routan i drove was good. to me, you buy the VW for the looks alone.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Thanks for all the feedback, insight, and information about this generation of U-body vans. Like I said, this query was initiated by my wife, and I wanted to make sure that I removed emotion from this purchase decision. In addition to the positive and negative remarks here, I did some internet research and it seems for every 1 happy Terraza owner, there's 2 unhappy owners. And seeing as how a 5 year loan would be needed, I'm not sure that this is the best choice for a reliable and dependable vehicle. Not knocking those that own this generation of minivan, but I need to make sure I get a quality vehicle if I go used.

Like I also said, now that GM is getting back into leasing for 2010, I may again go that route (hey, I've been doing it for ten years now, why stop!?!?). And I still want to see what a 2009 POntiac G8 V6 Sedan deal would be... I need to start looking into that ASAP (per the comment made by PCS in the Pontiac thread - TIC TOCK, times running out!).

[Justin Bimmer]

I don't know if GM is leasing anything else besides Cadillacs right now. I would that that Pontiacs would not be leased because of the resale value hit they are going to take.

[Intrepidation]

I know a guy with a 500,000 mile 300M if you're looking for reliable. :wink:

[regfootball]

Thanks for all the feedback, insight, and information about this generation of U-body vans. Like I said, this query was initiated by my wife, and I wanted to make sure that I removed emotion from this purchase decision. In addition to the positive and negative remarks here, I did some internet research and it seems for every 1 happy Terraza owner, there's 2 unhappy owners. And seeing as how a 5 year loan would be needed, I'm not sure that this is the best choice for a reliable and dependable vehicle. Not knocking those that own this generation of minivan, but I need to make sure I get a quality vehicle if I go used.

Like I also said, now that GM is getting back into leasing for 2010, I may again go that route (hey, I've been doing it for ten years now, why stop!?!?). And I still want to see what a 2009 POntiac G8 V6 Sedan deal would be... I need to start looking into that ASAP (per the comment made by PCS in the Pontiac thread - TIC TOCK, times running out!).

i had once thought of getting a U body to replace my aztek, since they were from the same gene pool (consider a rendezvoux).

but then the lambdas came out, and after driving one and seeing how much more desirable the lambda is it makes you want to hold out.

before the financial meltdown, the outlook could actually be leased really cheaply. now of course, that won't happen.

Most of the traverses even on chevy lots are north of 40k and GM just doesn't get that most people don't want or have that kind of jing these days which is why GMs lunch will continue to get eaten.

hard to pay for the GM at that price when a flex or MKt with ecoboost tire shredder can be had for the same or little more.

Edited August 11, 2009 by regfootball

[GMTruckGuy74]

I don't know if GM is leasing anything else besides Cadillacs right now. I would that that Pontiacs would not be leased because of the resale value hit they are going to take.

I've read that the 2010 GMC Acadia, 2010 Chevy Traverse & Equinox, and 2010 Buick Enclave are eligible for the new leasing program; I'm assuming that when the GMC Terrain debuts in the fall, it too will be added to the list (if the Equinox is, why wouldn't the Terrain be too?). At this point, if I am going to lease again, I might as well wait out the next four months left (Nov 17 is when the AURA is due back) and see what lease deals are being offered (especially for a Terrain).

As for used, you just never know how well the car was maintained, what problems are lurking around the corner or were overlooked for the "next owner to deal with", and what the previous owners did in their car (gross, I know). This is the stigma I have with buying used cars that I'd have to overcome if I do go with used.

As for the Lambdas, I'd love an Acadia or Enclave, even if it was a base FWD model. It would all depend on the deal offered.

[Intrepidation]

You know what's nice about used cars? No car payments.

[GMTruckGuy74]

You know what's nice about used cars? No car payments.

Well, as long as you have the cash on hand to buy it outright - that's not me!! But an older used vehicle on a shorter-term loan could lead to a few extra years without a car payment :AH-HA_wink:

[GMTruckGuy74]

How about the 2006 Buick Lucerne CXS? There are two '06 CXS for sale, both very local (at two different used car dealers, one less than a mile from my house and the other less than 2 miles away).

[caddycruiser]

How about the 2006 Buick Lucerne CXS? There are two '06 CXS for sale, both very local (at two different used car dealers, one less than a mile from my house and the other less than 2 miles away).

VERY nice. Magneride, 18" stock wheels, Northstar, etc. and just a very solid, refined, etc. car with nice materials, room, and features. Almost had my mother into a CXL a couple of years back, only for her to decide coming from a Suburban, a car was just TOO small. Yeah, and then bought a Malibu.

Lots of used Lucernes, all over, fewer of which are the "top" CXS's and those are least often ex rentals, although many leased/corporate cars. All depends on what you really might want vs. the price.

Unlike the U-vans, an extremely well built and reliable platform and model specifically, really with the only common things being hard to diagnose vibrations/shakes (but if it's used, with some miles, that's pretty much ruled out usually). Otherwise, good. Lucernes aren't exciting, but do well as a luxo sedan and the CXS/Magneride/Northstar guise transforms it over all the common V6 CX and CXL ones out there.

So...an interesting choice...I'd buy one used, definitely, if looking for a loaded luxo sedan with cheaper/local/GM maintenance and a nice price due to higher depreciation, sort of.

[fightingbee]

How about the 2006 Buick Lucerne CXS? There are two '06 CXS for sale, both very local (at two different used car dealers, one less than a mile from my house and the other less than 2 miles away).

Mmm, a black/black Lucerne CXS in particular =

[GMTruckGuy74]

Here are the two '06 Buick Lucerne CXS in my town for sale:

I like the 2nd one, the Light Bronzemist Metallic a little more (and it's cheaper than the red one) - though I wish it had the optional chrome rims.

And I still haven't forgotten about the 2003 Buick Park Avenue ULTRA:

Of course the PA has a bunch of extra options on it that I really like (HUD, for example)... but I don't know which one I'd like better.

[caddycruiser]

Yeah, again, with anything like this, it really comes down to is it really the right thing you want, at a price that makes it worthwhile if you'll keep it, the mileage/age/maintenance vs. that price, and all versus something new if it's a used car new/priced high enough...still worth it?

Lucerne, Park Avenue, all strong and definitely high on the longevity factor, but again, all only for the right price/mileage/etc. combo. Always a big question, with a lot of variables. Hence your thread here and us discussing it :AH-HA_wink:

[GMTruckGuy74]

Yeah, again, with anything like this, it really comes down to is it really the right thing you want, at a price that makes it worthwhile if you'll keep it, the mileage/age/maintenance vs. that price, and all versus something new if it's a used car new/priced high enough...still worth it?

Lucerne, Park Avenue, all strong and definitely high on the longevity factor, but again, all only for the right price/mileage/etc. combo. Always a big question, with a lot of variables. Hence your thread here and us discussing it :AH-HA_wink:

Yeah, there's a lot of variables to consider. The biggest to deal with is that going used gives me more car for less bucks... going new right now may limit the size of the car & options I can have. And yes, I have to deal with the fact that if I go used I have to keep it til its paid off. Lots to think about...