Interesting Wagoner Interview

[CARBIZ]

I'm with Dfelt on this one: marketing needs to be combined with products people want to buy. Another anology from the past can be drawn with the beta/BHS war of 20 years ago. Beta was by far the superior product: fewer moving parts, simpler load mechanism, superior picture. Sony invented beta. But Sony got greedy and wouldn't license anybody else for beta 1, the best picture quality. Along came Matsushita with their rival VHS format. They licensed it to everybody and marketed the crap out of it. The rest, as they say, is history. Sony got swamped with product and eventually was forced to sell VHS machines. Somewhere along the line, GM has lost its way. Not only are its products not "must haves" (thus forcing dealers to sell on price, not value), but its marketing does seem confused. I'll give one example, from sales point of view: the confusing array of credits, and programs (Grad Rebate, invoice credits, employee programs, supplier programs, lease cash, sunroof credits, DVD credits, lease pull aheads, and so on) from GMAC and GM create havoc with the sales department, resulting in rejected deals and pissed off customers. I've personally had to eat two $1,200 mistakes in the past couple months due to changing/evaporating programs. It seems that there are too many cooks in the kitchen. Does anybody at corporate actually work on the floor and see what we have to put up with every day? I mean WORK on the floor. How about anonymously to get people's honest opinions and reactions?

[Guest buickman]

Selling cars and understanding the business are two different things.  If you really did have a firm grasp on what's going on in this industry, your Return to Greatness Plan would have been accepted by GM and shortly followed by the rest of the industry.

But, that has not happened.  Ford, DCX, T, H etc, have not adopted any of your points since they were released 6 months ago.  I remember how fearful you were about making them public but they have been for some time.  I also believe there was talk of copywriting them.

Maybe, you 20 pts just will not work or show us the data you have compiled outlining why you plan will work.  I assume you met with LeNeve and presented him more than 20 bullets!

Pursuade us with facts.

[post="57913"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yes I met with LaNeve three times, and shared the first twenty. As stated previously, he liked them and agreed. Someone (Wagoner) killed the deal. The points are automatically copywrited by publishing on the net. The proof of viability is my personal success as a saleman, and as General Manager of two stores which showed outstanding results. Edited December 13, 2005 by buickman

[Guest buickman]

I'm with Dfelt on this one:  marketing needs to be combined with products people want to buy.  Another anology from the past can be drawn with the beta/BHS war of 20 years ago.  Beta was by far the superior product: fewer moving parts, simpler load mechanism, superior picture. Sony invented beta.  But Sony got greedy and wouldn't license anybody else for beta 1, the best picture quality.  Along came Matsushita with their rival VHS format.  They licensed it to everybody and marketed the crap out of it. The rest, as they say, is history.  Sony got swamped with product and eventually was forced to sell VHS machines.
  Somewhere along the line, GM has lost its way.  Not only are its products not "must haves" (thus forcing dealers to sell on price, not value), but its marketing does seem confused.
  I'll give one example, from sales point of view:  the confusing array of credits, and programs (Grad Rebate, invoice credits, employee programs, supplier programs, lease cash, sunroof credits, DVD credits, lease pull aheads, and so on) from GMAC and GM create havoc with the sales department, resulting in rejected deals and pissed off customers.  I've personally had to eat two $1,200 mistakes in the past couple months due to changing/evaporating programs.
  It seems that there are too many cooks in the kitchen.  Does anybody at corporate actually work on the floor and see what we have to put up with every day?  I mean WORK on the floor.  How about anonymously to get people's honest opinions and reactions?

[post="57919"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I feel your pain. Confusing incentives has cost me personally thousands of dollars as they have almost every dealer I've ever talked with. Try and explain the difference between a voucher, coupon, and certificate. Screw it up and there goes your commission and dealer profit. Yes, the product is the ultimate determinate. Meanwhile change the message and reap the benefits.

[evok]

Yes I met with LaNeve three times, and shared the first twenty. As stated previously, he liked them and agreed. Someone (Wagoner) killed the deal. The points are automatically copywrited by publishing on the net. The proof of viability is my personal success as a saleman, and as General Manager of two stores which showed outstanding results.

[post="57992"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

And how would this apply to a resident in CA? How does this attract new business. Seems this just applies to someone that wants a cheap Pep hand me down.

STEP FOURTEEN: Executive Cars. Quite often, GM executives turn in their factory demos for sale with the odometer just under the next price discount level. This practice is both frustrating and annoying. The inconsiderate action toward fellow employees, and retirees, is inexcusable and unacceptable. GM needs to announce a policy of driving the unit to the next mileage category whenever the driver is within say 250 miles of the next price break. How can the company promote unity when a few individuals think they are being cute? I've seen units turned in three miles short of the next discount, more than once. What does this do for morale?

And how would this one apply to a non GM employee? I think GM's problem is attracting customers that do not work for the company?

STEP SEVENTEEN: GM Card. This was one of the best programs GM ever had. That was until someone decided to take earnings away from eligible GM family members, and thereby alienate thousands of employee cardholders. Many people swore off GM for the move. Some form of retribution needs to be made. Consultations with the legal staff could result in some form of program to attempt to bring those lost, back into the fold.

This one too.

STEP SIXTEEN: Free GM Smart Care Maintenance Agreement to all GM Retirees. This 36 month/36,000 mile program would offer free recommended maintenance to all GM retirees. The benefit would be great in the number of customers brought in for dealer service. This group of people has tremendous purchasing power, and exerts a large amount of influence over their family members’ buying decisions, often contributing financially to the transaction. Also, increased showroom traffic by our service customers, would lead to increased sales to those individuals, and to others who feel more comfortable buying when there is heightened activity.

Almost every point would not attract new business to the company and hence would not return GM to greatness.

[Guest buickman]

And how would this apply to a resident in CA? How does this attract new business.  Seems this just applies to someone that wants a cheap Pep hand me down.

STEP FOURTEEN: Executive Cars. Quite often, GM executives turn in their factory demos for sale with the odometer just under the next price discount level. This practice is both frustrating and annoying. The inconsiderate action toward fellow employees, and retirees, is inexcusable and unacceptable. GM needs to announce a policy of driving the unit to the next mileage category whenever the driver is within say 250 miles of the next price break. How can the company promote unity when a few individuals think they are being cute? I've seen units turned in three miles short of the next discount, more than once. What does this do for morale?

And how would this one apply to a non GM employee?  I think GM's problem is attracting customers that do not work for the company?

STEP SEVENTEEN: GM Card. This was one of the best programs GM ever had. That was until someone decided to take earnings away from eligible GM family members, and thereby alienate thousands of employee cardholders. Many people swore off GM for the move. Some form of retribution needs to be made. Consultations with the legal staff could result in some form of program to attempt to bring those lost, back into the fold.

This one too.

STEP SIXTEEN: Free GM Smart Care Maintenance Agreement to all GM Retirees. This 36 month/36,000 mile program would offer free recommended maintenance to all GM retirees. The benefit would be great in the number of customers brought in for dealer service. This group of people has tremendous purchasing power, and exerts a large amount of influence over their family members’ buying decisions, often contributing financially to the transaction. Also, increased showroom traffic by our service customers, would lead to increased sales to those individuals, and to others who feel more comfortable buying when there is heightened activity.

Almost every point would not attract new business to the company and hence would not return GM to greatness.

[post="58002"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

How many GM employees, retirees, and family members do you suppose there are? How often has one of these folks told their friends and family about how they were "screwed" by GM? Then we wonder how an employee's son or daughter buys a Toyota or Honda? Like I said, the first twenty are the low hanging fruit, easily corrected. Let's get everyone on the same page and take care of the home team. Certainly step one applies to eveyone in the market, as do others outlined. Hey, I have a plan, and it sounds a lot better than selling GMAC, combining franchises, closing plants, and more Red Tag nonsense.

[evok]

STEP FIIFTEEN: Referral Savings Account. Similar to the GM Card (another crisis), GM announces a program to accumulate savings of $50 for each referral who buys, or leases, a new vehicle. The referral must be disclosed prior to delivery, and would be similar to what we commonly refer to as a birddog. The account holder could then cash the savings in at the time they take delivery of their own unit. Lets see how this applies to the average person. 1 referral $50/48 months = $1.04/month saving on a payment. 10 referrals $10.40 100 referrals $104.00 = $5000 off the purchase price. Do you understand what an adminstrative nightmare this would have created for the company. Someone has to keep track of all those coupons. Throwing more money after bad to me. Edited December 13, 2005 by evok

[turbo200]

I lose more respect for Buickman everytime he doesn't respond in a direct outright fashion.

Buickman said:

Yes I met with LaNeve three times, and shared the first twenty. As stated previously, he liked them and agreed. Someone (Wagoner) killed the deal. The points are automatically copywrited by publishing on the net. The proof of viability is my personal success as a saleman, and as General Manager of two stores which showed outstanding results.

when there was a clear requst for DATA to show the Plan will work. Another question was posed: Why haven't other automakers contacted buickman to implement his plan. It's been public for six months, and at first there was such a ruckus over it being private, that he actually did pique the interest of many.

Anyone preparing a business proposal, whether it be marketing or product-related, HAS to have a fiscal data presentation. Just any data, besides regurgitating what we already know about your records as a salesman would have been nice.

Persuade us with facts.

Oh and evok is right on about this plan not attracting new customers. GM's biggest problem is not thier loyal custoemrs, but their inability to attract new blood.

[Guest buickman]

How many GM employees, retirees, and family members do you suppose there are? How often has one of these folks told their friends and family about how they were "screwed" by GM? Then we wonder how an employee's son or daughter buys a Toyota or Honda? Like I said, the first twenty are the low hanging fruit, easily corrected. Let's get everyone on the same page and take care of the home team. Certainly step one applies to eveyone in the market, as do others outlined. Hey, I have a plan, and it sounds a lot better than selling GMAC, combining franchises, closing plants, and more Red Tag nonsense. We've been hearing the same noise from the 14th floor (now 39th) since Roger Smith. Reorganization, realignment, consolidation, spinoff, closure, layoffs, but just wait, the new products are coming...

[post="58004"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Edited December 13, 2005 by buickman

[Guest buickman]

STEP FIIFTEEN: Referral Savings Account. Similar to the GM Card (another crisis), GM announces a program to accumulate savings of $50 for each referral who buys, or leases, a new vehicle. The referral must be disclosed prior to delivery, and would be similar to what we commonly refer to as a birddog. The account holder could then cash the savings in at the time they take delivery of their own unit.

Lets see how this applies to the average person.

1 referral $50/48 months = $1.04/month saving on a payment.

10 referrals $10.40

100 referrals $104.00 = $5000 off the purchase price.

Do you understand what an adminstrative nightmare this would have created for the company.  Throwing more money after bad to me.

[post="58005"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

LaNeve already implemented this one. Must be he likes it.

[evok]

LaNeve already implemented this one. Must be he likes it.

[post="58008"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

As usual a half truth.

You forgot to mention in your previous post, GM employees can hand out referrals but currently not the general public which is the basis for your bullet. Your bullet refers to anyone receiving a referal rebate coupon if it leads to a sale of a GM product. Also, GM emplyees have been handing out GMS friends and neighbors discount for years now. Edited December 13, 2005 by evok

[evok]

STEP THIRTEEN: Profit Sharing. At year end, instead of giving our employees a cash award for profit sharing, give them the choice of common stock. Have them become true partners in the company's success. Owning stock would increase the employee perception that they are part of something, and would be more meaningful in the long term than a few dollars easily disposed of. They have done this one for years. Until recently of course.

[Guest buickman]

STEP THIRTEEN: Profit Sharing. At year end, instead of giving our employees a cash award for profit sharing, give them the choice of common stock. Have them become true partners in the company's success. Owning stock would increase the employee perception that they are part of something, and would be more meaningful in the long term than a few dollars easily disposed of.

They have done this one for years.  Until recently of course.

[post="58013"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Wow, two down eighteen to go!

[evok]

It appears your math is bad. Go back and recount: STEP ONE: Elimination of Destination Charges. What does this do? And this is going to have the same impact as 0% or Employee pricing for all. This is an industry practice. Let us say, GM did implement this and it was successful and increasing sales 40% like GM S for all, how long before the rest of the industry catches on. This is my favorite: STEP SEVEN: Annual Model Change. This is big. Sloan came up with this idea for a reason. It evened out the seasonal fluctuations in sales. Whoever got the bright idea to come out with a car whenever it's ready really did not understand the car business. How many of you remember the anticipation of the fall's New Model Introductions? Let's return to the regular release of new products after Labor Day, and return a sense of order to the business. These days we're selling three different model years side by side. That is very confusing and damaging. Some things should never change, and this is one of those things. As I said 6 months ago, there is a lot of cost associated with this one. Resource allocation, certifing vehicles to FMVSS, the 1950 are gone. It just is not practical. Current method distributes the launches evenly as well as the workload. This point alone will cost BILLIONS to implement. Edited December 13, 2005 by evok

[regfootball]

Union representation on the board?  Not gonna happen.

[post="57656"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

well, maybe if one of those guys on the floor works his ass off, gets prmoted into management, works his way up the ladder, gets more education, and makes a personal investment in the company in terms of buying stock or unpaid overtime or whatever

sure, then reward that person with a board seat.

[regfootball]

Take for example the Vermont Teddy Bear Company. Management and workers together operating profitably here in the US. Cooperation doesn't mean communism, it means common sense. I don't blame Wagoner for everything, just losing Olds, the Fiat shell game, Paul Ballew and his utter nonsense, Mark LaNeve and his failed marketing, junk bonds and our increased cost of capital, and now the prospect of offing GMAC. Like it or not, the music to be faced is that Rick Wagoner is personally responsible for the death of General Motors. And to you Mr Evok, I know more about the car business than you'll ever begin to realize. It's really about the people. The cars just bring the people together. After 15,000 individual retail sales and as national sales leader 6 times, it's fair to assume I have a firm grasp on what's going on in this industry, and it's much more than your blathering bs.

[post="57815"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

not two comparable items. not everyone can afford a vermont teddy bear. vermont teddy bears are not everyman items like cars are. cars have intense price competition. if someone thinks a nice teddy bear is cute, and they are loaded, they can part with 80 bucks. GM can't spit out sloppy LeSabres and throw a 75 grand price tag on them. Plus teddy bears don't have safety regulations and all that other crap that the auto industry has.

[SingleStylish]

Wow, two down eighteen to go!

[post="58019"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Where is globalization in your plan? When do we talk about trimming model lines and getting rid of overlap? When do we talk about getting rid of unsuccesful cars and names?

How about:

Styling houses--should there be regional design or should there be one GM design house?

Engineering--can further advances in process improvment increase efficiency of existing workforce and eleminate further jobs?

Closing old plants--when can GM get rid of plants that are obviously outside a profitiable business case?

Union--when will GM be able to write checks with out Ron Gettlefinger having to sign them? How will further benefits for retirees in the future be handled?

Competition--How will GM improving benchmarking and market research? Do the current processes go far enough? Who will make those decisions when and where? Will it be global or regional?

Emerging markets--Asia is booming what about Africa or even Russia... when will GM penetrate and start selling vehicles there? Will those units come from here or there or anywhere...

You see... Marketing is not THE problem. Managing a global EMPIRE is more than selling metal. Running a business is nowhere near the same as retail sales. Futhermore, general managers of dealerships rarely if ever traffic in political and social matters that affect countries and for that matter foreign policy. I doubt if ever your decisions as a GM at your dealership have affected someone in Korea.

When if ever did some sales make you an expert? I am not an expert and gladdly admit to it. The fact is, it is easy to armchair quarterback. Tracinda did some of the same things that you advocate. A hostile takeover, some marketing led by the management and workforce... that turned out so well that Diamler bought them. Even experienced and informed people that actually get into board rooms and meet with more than one executive and has the purchasing power to back up his assertions makes mistakes.

GM has and will continue to globalize their efforts and worrying about a workforce buying its product is simply not keeping their collective eye on the ball. Forcing people whether they are or aren't an employee to buy a product they really didn't want only because of the deal or the marketing will have long term affects and bread a sub culture similar to Wal-Mart. "I won't shop there so long as I live because it is just too cheap and they really have nothing I want."

I encourage everyone if they truly want GM to succeed to buy what is right and desirable to you personally. In the end... a vote with your dollar is more important and effective in changing product at GM than stupid bullit points aimed at "low hanging fruit."

[regfootball]

I'm with Dfelt on this one:  marketing needs to be combined with products people want to buy.  Another anology from the past can be drawn with the beta/BHS war of 20 years ago.  Beta was by far the superior product: fewer moving parts, simpler load mechanism, superior picture. Sony invented beta.  But Sony got greedy and wouldn't license anybody else for beta 1, the best picture quality.  Along came Matsushita with their rival VHS format.  They licensed it to everybody and marketed the crap out of it. The rest, as they say, is history.  Sony got swamped with product and eventually was forced to sell VHS machines.
  Somewhere along the line, GM has lost its way.  Not only are its products not "must haves" (thus forcing dealers to sell on price, not value), but its marketing does seem confused.
  I'll give one example, from sales point of view:  the confusing array of credits, and programs (Grad Rebate, invoice credits, employee programs, supplier programs, lease cash, sunroof credits, DVD credits, lease pull aheads, and so on) from GMAC and GM create havoc with the sales department, resulting in rejected deals and pissed off customers.  I've personally had to eat two $1,200 mistakes in the past couple months due to changing/evaporating programs.
  It seems that there are too many cooks in the kitchen.  Does anybody at corporate actually work on the floor and see what we have to put up with every day?  I mean WORK on the floor.  How about anonymously to get people's honest opinions and reactions?

[post="57919"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

product is what people want, not marketing

product arises from actual need. marketing in most cases only exists to make up for piss poor product. marketing is nothing more than a whole bloated industry designed to mind f-ck people into buying crap they otherwise don't want or need in most cases, at least as far as how its evoloved in the USA.

sadly, marketing is now needed in our US economy to keep it moving. Imagine the crap you would buy if you weren't bombarded by marketing 24/7. There is much debate today as to whether we are now overmarketing and whether excessive marketing repels customers.

GM is stuck having to rely too much on marketing. the products need to be improved and rely less on marketing to get healthier.

the product first and foremost has to be right. you can market the crap out of a BAD product, and if you sucker folks into buying it, they'll only be oeven more pissed off when they buy the inferior product and after awhile grow to hate it and the company that made it, even more and more. Edited December 13, 2005 by regfootball

[evok]

The best marketing is seeing a successful product drive past you. I know I smile everytime I see a Mustang pass me, or CTS or Chrysler 300, or Prius or Escalade. Anybody see a trend? Edited December 13, 2005 by evok

[Croc]

Anybody see a trend?

[post="58058"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Only the enlightened.

[97regalGS]

Just more of Rick's buddies trying to prevent criticism through personal attacks and stopping the free flow of information. GM management has had security digging in my past, and calls have been made to Suski to stop me. These frivolous and vexacious attempts at subtle intimidation are futile. Watch the methodology, derogatory and inflammatory accusations, followed by calls for "banning". They work behind the scenes, and then launch the operation through a coordinated effort. Nice try, however the transparency of your conspiracy is to a degree humorous. Thanks Rick.

[post="57894"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

did u forget to take your medication today? cause you're a little more delusional than usual.

[evok]

You guys have me in tears.

[Croc]

Just more of Rick's buddies trying to prevent criticism through personal attacks and stopping the free flow of information. GM management has had security digging in my past, and calls have been made to Suski to stop me. These frivolous and vexacious attempts at subtle intimidation are futile. Watch the methodology, derogatory and inflammatory accusations, followed by calls for "banning". They work behind the scenes, and then launch the operation through a coordinated effort. Nice try, however the transparency of your conspiracy is to a degree humorous. Thanks Rick.

[post="57894"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Buddy, I guarantee you I have no affiliation whatsoever with Rick Wagoner :rolleyes: . Are you REALLY that delusional / paranoid / stupid? :unsure:

[evok]

Buddy, I guarantee you I have no affiliation whatsoever with Rick Wagoner  :rolleyes: .  Are you REALLY that delusional / paranoid / stupid? :unsure:

[post="58077"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Do you fly black helicopters? Edited December 13, 2005 by evok

[Croc]

Do you fly black helicopters?

[post="58083"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

OK. Fine, time to come clean.

I am being paid by GM to stalk you on a message board, Buickman. I broke into your home and installed hidden cameras in all of your consumer electronic devices. I monitor the television you watch and the websites you visit. I even record all your telephone conversations. Your car has a GPS tracking device on it, and there is fairy dust in your cheerios. GM pays me handsomely for this in the form of concept cars, not cash. I currently am driving an Imaj. It's pretty sweet.

Oh, and listen for the doorbell, those men in white coats should be there anytime now. :rolleyes:

[CaddyXLR-V]

And Buickman, you said you made your return to greatness public because you want to help GM right? Do you think badmouthing GMs top level execs will ever get your plan implemented? Do you think it will make them take you seriously? How about going around the country and helping other dealerships grow their business. Thats what you do, your a salesman, not a CEO. Dont pretend you know everything about running a multinational, multi-billion dollar corporation because you increased your sales at 2 dealerships. Then, maybe some people here might take you seriously.

[Croc]

This guy is just mental. I think his paranoia is quite obvious. Edited December 13, 2005 by Croc

[sciguy_0504]

I think we're being just a little overly mean. I didn't meet with any GM execs and I don't have to harass/make fun of someone. :P No, seriously, if you don't want to here buickman then ignore him. Don't treat him like crap if you don't agree with him and his plan. I think your first and biggest mistake, buickman, was wanting to receive money for the plan. That took whatever credability and strong points it may have had and flushed them down the toilet.

[Brandon Lutz]

OK. Fine, time to come clean.

I am being paid by GM to stalk you on a message board, Buickman.  I broke into your home and installed hidden cameras in all of your consumer electronic devices.  I monitor the television you watch and the websites you visit.  I even record all your telephone conversations.  Your car has a GPS tracking device on it, and there is fairy dust in your cheerios.  GM pays me handsomely for this in the form of concept cars, not cash.  I currently am driving an Imaj.  It's pretty sweet.

Oh, and listen for the doorbell, those men in white coats should be there anytime now. :rolleyes:

[post="58087"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:lol:

[Croc]

I think we're being just a little overly mean.  I didn't meet with any GM execs and I don't have to harass/make fun of someone. :P  No, seriously, if you don't want to here buickman then ignore him.  Don't treat him like crap if you don't agree with him and his plan.

I think your first and biggest mistake, buickman, was wanting to receive money for the plan.  That took whatever credability and strong points it may have had and flushed them down the toilet.

[post="58112"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Dude...he accused me of being in cahoots with Rick Wagoner. I'm not gonna just let that go.

See the thing is, all of us have, at one time or another, tried to get him to show any quantitative data whatsoever. He hasn't. We have also asked him very direct, pointed questions and he has shown himself to be quite the artful dodger. Sorry, I don't feel bad, not one tiny bit. At this point he is a troll since he won't even address our concerns, just resort to mudslinging. Edited December 13, 2005 by Croc

[Guest buickman]

As usual a half truth.

You forgot to mention in your previous post, GM employees can hand out referrals but currently not the general public which is the basis for your bullet.  Your bullet refers to anyone receiving a referal rebate coupon if it leads to a sale of a GM product. Also, GM emplyees have been handing out GMS friends and neighbors discount for years now.

[post="58010"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Since my meeting with LaNeve, GM began setting aside $100 per employee referra, stackable towards future purchase. That is quite unlike the Ambassador program, GM in the driveway, or the LT1 executive privilege.

[Guest buickman]

STEP THIRTEEN: Profit Sharing. At year end, instead of giving our employees a cash award for profit sharing, give them the choice of common stock. Have them become true partners in the company's success. Owning stock would increase the employee perception that they are part of something, and would be more meaningful in the long term than a few dollars easily disposed of.

They have done this one for years.  Until recently of course.

[post="58013"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Because under Wagoner we can't seem to make a profit, let alone predict when we will. Last time he tried, he said $10 per share by mid decade. It arrived and he said "it depends on how you define mid decade". This man is running GM?

[CaddyXLR-V]

Because under Wagoner we can't seem to make a profit, let alone predict when we will. Last time he tried, he said $10 per share by mid decade. It arrived and he said "it depends on how you define mid decade". This man is running GM?

[post="58199"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You ever hear about short term losses for long term profit? Wagoner is just doing what every other CEO should have done a long time ago.

[Guest buickman]

Destination: Yes, this is that big, it shows leadership, something we're desparately lacking. Don't lay claim to any positive about GMS. It was one of the biggest mistakes in our company's history. Launch: We can't launch a car correctly now. G6 coupe? Convertible? LaCrosse? Most desirable options and packages on constraint, color availability ridiculous, no brochures until after the vehicles arrive, rebates before units even in stock. Trust me, a coordinated launch is possible and desirable. Hell, put the folks in the jobs bank on it, we're paying them to do nothing, real brilliant management there brother. Edited December 13, 2005 by buickman

[Guest buickman]

You ever hear about short term losses for long term profit? Wagoner is just doing what every other CEO should have done a long time ago.

[post="58200"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

TIME TO:

WAKE UP

On a sweltering summer day, an old man went down into a cool cellar for some relief. The moment he entered, he was blinded by the darkness. Don't Worry, said another man in the cellar, it is natural that when you go from light to darkness, you're unable to see. But soon enough, your eyes will grow accustomed to it, and you will hardly notice that it is dark.

My dear friend, replied the old man, turning to leave, that is exactly what I am afraid of. Darkness is darkness, the danger is convincing your self that it is light.


As I said everyone should wake up as each day goes by Wagoner is piling dirt on the exit from the cellar. I.E. everyone is in they dark, they just think it's light.

[turbo200]

Ugh, this is exactly the kind of post that clogs this forum. we know already you want rick wagoner not to be the head of GM. there are some here that agree with you and others that don't, but they don't mention it at every turn, much less in soliloquy form.

[G. David Felt]

:) I would normally say lets all agree to disagree and move on, yet for those of us that have worked the sales side and move to engineering due to our passion to want to create better products understand the need to bring Marketing into the fold. It is the ancient good ol boy's club at the top that is killing our beloved GM. They had their chance, they are past their prime. Time to let Wagoner and Lutz out to pasture to revel in their old memories and allow us Generation X and Y bring passion with a clear message back to the masses. Really, I doubt any person on this board could walk into a GM showroom with an ad that shows every discount that GM has and truly get that auto. It is stupid to market a auto showing military discounts, college discounts, 1st time buyers discount, competition win discount, etc. The list goes on and dealers and the GM marketing team will throw them all in a list and say get this 7K off this auto when in reality most only are eligable for maybe 1/3 of the list. Then the lack of passion on the auto's is clear. Yes we all understand there is a design cycle, but so far, the concept auto's GM has been showing for the last 4 years are not blowing any air up peoples pant legs. Exciting auto's with smart clear marketing message can win the auto war. B)

[The O.C.]

Hmm....C&G seems awfully constipated lately. Perhaps its time to flush out the BM. :rolleyes:

As the Joker said in Batman "This town needs an enema!"

[post="58074"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'm afraid flushing it would clog up the toilet....

:lol:

[Guest buickman]

Heh, yep everyone else is wrong and you're the only right one.  :lol:  :rolleyes:

[post="58213"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Not quite. Assume you're in an assembly plant and a machine goes down. You call machine repair. Power goes out, you call an electrician. Car sales goes down, you call Buickman. I've done it at the salesperson level on the blacktop, managerial level on the desk, and operational level handling the store. GM needs someone who understands how to sell cars. It's really that simple. WAKE UP!

[Croc]

Exactly, which is why we've been saying all along your 20 points plan is much more applicable to GM dealers than to GM, the corporation. Get it? Got it? GOOD!

[Guest buickman]

:)  I would normally say lets all agree to disagree and move on, yet for those of us that have worked the sales side and move to engineering due to our passion to want to create better products understand the need to bring Marketing into the fold.  It is the ancient good ol boy's club at the top that is killing our beloved GM.

They had their chance, they are past their prime.  Time to let Wagoner and Lutz out to pasture to revel in their old memories and allow us Generation X and Y bring passion with a clear message back to the masses.

Really, I doubt any person on this board could walk into a GM showroom with an ad that shows every discount that GM has and truly get that auto.

It is stupid to market a auto showing military discounts, college discounts, 1st time buyers discount, competition win discount, etc.  The list goes on and dealers and the GM marketing team will throw them all in a list and say get this 7K off this auto when in reality most only are eligable for maybe 1/3 of the list.

Then the lack of passion on the auto's is clear.  Yes we all understand there is a design cycle, but so far, the concept auto's GM has been showing for the last 4 years are not blowing any air up peoples pant legs.

Exciting auto's with smart clear marketing message can win the auto war.  B)

[post="58222"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The most pertinent comment and astute observation yet. You, my friend, know what the real deal is. I can tell you've been on the line. Tell me, is a GM UAW retiree certificate compatable with a salary early retirement voucher and/or an employee bonus rebate and/or instant value coupon? Do you live East of the Lake, or West of the Lake? We should throw Wagoner IN the Lake. Edited December 13, 2005 by buickman

[Guest buickman]

Exactly, which is why we've been saying all along your 20 points plan is much more applicable to GM dealers than to GM, the corporation.

Get it?  Got it?  GOOD!

[post="58229"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Dealer problems are GM's problems. Qua Buick close after 50 years? Dorschel Buick now sells more Toyotas, VWs and Nissans than Buicks. The strength of GM for decades was their dealer body. Dealer service also is in need of improvement. The Plan addresses these in the first twenty. The next set delves deeper into solutions internal to GM and addresses concerns regarding government as well.

[Croc]

We should throw Wagoner IN the Lake.

[post="58231"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

If you don't chill on this, we're gonna come by in a black helicopter and DROWN you in the lake!

[Guest buickman]

If you don't chill on this, we're gonna come by in a black helicopter and DROWN you in the lake!

[post="58236"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Have Lutz fly it, he's had plenty of practice. GM will drown first...in RED INK!

[Croc]

Dealer problems are GM's problems. Qua Buick close after 50 years? Dorschel Buick now sells more Toyotas, VWs and Nissans than Buicks. The strength of GM for decades was their dealer body. Dealer service also is in need of improvement. The Plan addresses these in the first twenty. The next set delves deeper into solutions internal to GM and addresses concerns regarding government as well.

[post="58235"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

...but GM has no control of its dealers! How can you have worked at a dealer and not know this fundamental fact???? IF GM CAN'T EVEN GET ITS DEALERS TO STOP INSTALLING CANVAS ROOFS ON THE NEW CADILLACS, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK GM CAN GET THEM TO CHANGE THEIR CORE BUSINESS STRATEGIES??

[Guest buickman]

...but GM has no control of its dealers!  How can you have worked at a dealer and not know this fundamental fact????  IF GM CAN'T EVEN GET ITS DEALERS TO STOP INSTALLING CANVAS ROOFS ON THE NEW CADILLACS, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK GM CAN GET THEM TO CHANGE THEIR CORE BUSINESS STRATEGIES??

[post="58240"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

They control the merchandising and actually creat times more problems than they solve. f GM led the way with effective marketing, maybe dealers would listen and follow proven successful leadership.

[regfootball]

Ugh, this is exactly the kind of post that clogs this forum. we know already you want rick wagoner not to be the head of GM. there are some here that agree with you and others that don't, but they don't mention it at every turn, much less in soliloquy form.

[post="58210"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

HAIKU THEN?

Oh, the Le Say-Berrrrrr
won't 'the Rick' pro-mote it..... more?
PEEEE. OHHHHH. S. that's why! Edited December 13, 2005 by regfootball

[Croc]

They control the merchandising and actually creat times more problems than they solve. f GM led the way with effective marketing, maybe dealers would listen and follow proven successful leadership.

[post="58245"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:rolleyes: BROKEN RECORD!! :rolleyes: :unsure: :o :lol: B)

[regfootball]

thir-ty eight hundred. i-RON block. nine-ty degrees. la-zy boy front seats.

[regfootball]

yeah, we can sell the HELL out of that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SingleStylish]

Where is globalization in your plan?  When do we talk about trimming model lines and getting rid of overlap?  When do we talk about getting rid of unsuccesful cars and names?

How about:

Styling houses--should there be regional design or should there be one GM design house?

Engineering--can further advances in process improvment increase efficiency of existing workforce and eleminate further jobs?

Closing old plants--when can GM get rid of plants that are obviously outside a profitiable business case?

Union--when will GM be able to write checks with out Ron Gettlefinger having to sign them?  How will further benefits for retirees in the future be handled?

Competition--How will GM improving benchmarking and market research?  Do the current processes go far enough?  Who will make those decisions when and where?  Will it be global or regional?

Emerging markets--Asia is booming what about Africa or even Russia... when will GM penetrate and start selling vehicles there?  Will those units come from here or there or anywhere...

You see... Marketing is not THE problem.  Managing a global EMPIRE is more than selling metal.  Running a business is nowhere near the same as retail sales.  Futhermore, general managers of dealerships rarely if ever traffic in political and social matters that affect countries and for that matter foreign policy.  I doubt if ever your decisions as a GM at your dealership have affected someone in Korea.

When if ever did some sales make you an expert?  I am not an expert and gladdly admit to it.  The fact is, it is easy to armchair quarterback.  Tracinda did some of the same things that you advocate.  A hostile takeover, some marketing led by the management and workforce... that turned out so well that Diamler bought them.  Even experienced and informed people that actually get into board rooms and meet with more than one executive and has the purchasing power to back up his assertions makes mistakes.

GM has and will continue to globalize their efforts and worrying about a workforce buying its product is simply not keeping their collective eye on the ball.  Forcing people whether they are or aren't an employee to buy a product they really didn't want only because of the deal or the marketing will have long term affects and bread a sub culture similar to Wal-Mart.  "I won't shop there so long as I live because it is just too cheap and they really have nothing I want."

I encourage everyone if they truly want GM to succeed to buy what is right and desirable to you personally.  In the end... a vote with your dollar is more important and effective in changing product at GM than stupid bullit points aimed at "low hanging fruit."

[post="58042"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

WHEN WILL BUCK MAN ANSWER MY QUESTIONS? Again, you'd gain credability if you'd answer some questions!