Interesting Wagoner Interview

[Hogans_Heroes]

Jim Mateja asked some very direct questions of Wagoner for use in this article.... about his job, potential rivalry with Fritz, confidence of the board, etc. Pretty good read: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi...hi-business-hed

[Croc]

Good read. I've always been confident in Wagoner, and after that article I am more so.

[turbo200]

I know I'm not the only one unimpressed by GM's decision to wait till 2005 to increase product spending by 1 billion. I know the upcoming times at GM are looking good, but I can't help but complain in my mind about the times that came before this, and what could have been done to avoid all this. Wagoner went through this once before in 1992. Certainly, there had to be lessons learned there, there had to be a catalyst for money-making years again. I just don't understand how it could taka so long to figure out a formula that seems so easy to crack, to me at least. Give the customer what they want. What do they want? Classy, high quality products that set standards for driveability, but first and foremost are fun and desirable to own. Give us what we want. Good cars that make us feel good to be in them and be seen in them. I just don't get, and never will understand, why it has taken so long to understand that. And I will never understand the conservative policies the blue suits at all companies have on design and styling. Wasn't there somehting called the Design Golden Age where everybody fanaticized over cars? Wasn't GM the king of this era, producing cars people today covet and spend millions to own and restore. What's so hard to understand about people liking good design? Edited December 12, 2005 by turbo200

[Guest buickman]

Wait a minute! He can't say when profit will return, He discloses nothing new, no plan. This is leadership?

[evok]

Wait a minute! He can't say when profit will return, He discloses nothing new, no plan. This is leadership?

[post="57218"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Your childish opinion is tiring. Grow up.

[Guest buickman]

From the article: General Motors has lost nearly $4 billion so far this year. There is speculation that Toyota will soon bypass it to become the world's biggest car company. Some even wonder if GM is on the road to bankruptcy. Wagoner admits now, as in the early 90s, GM has a wealth of critics who insist the automaker isn't moving fast enough to erase the red ink. We have to get the business right in North America, but there's no time frame. At the moment, GM is losing ground with both consumers and the investment community. It stands to be passed by Toyota as the top vehicle-seller worldwide in 2006. What it needs now, Wagoner said, is time for the results to show up on the bottom line. He refuses to say how long it will take. Meanwhile, observers note that both GM and Ford are in financial trouble, while the smaller Chrysler Group is profitable and its vehicle sales are up. All I can say is that when you add all the things up at the end of the year, for the last 74 years we've been No. 1. And this inspires confidence???? Well guess what, we won't be #1 for long with Red Ink Rick at the helm. Heck, we may not even stay in business after he sells GMAC. Let's burn the furniture to pay for the heat. If you think he saved anything on health care, you're wrong. All he did was attempt to diffuse negative press by making a bogus announcement the same day as third quarter results were released. Read about what a VEBA really is at www.futureoftheunion.com. Wagoner has set up $1 Billion for the UAW leaders to manage and take a 20% administrative fee. Why doesn't Gettlefinger say much? Why should he? Would you if just given $200 Million? Shades of Fiat. Wake up and realize there are Rats in the Glovebox! Wagoner shouldn't resign, he should go to prison. Edited December 12, 2005 by buickman

[evok]

Your repeated drivel is tiring.

[Guest buickman]

Your repeated drivel is tiring.

[post="57239"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The man's a crook killing the company and you defend him? Recognize the difference between drivel and the passionate drive to save the company I love.
Blind faith is not admirable, nor advisable. Exposing corruption is how we learned of Enron and Worldcom. Wagoner has decimated so much of what was GM and robbed the company of so much capital, the only forseeable outcome is implosion and bankruptcy. Drivel? No, Reality! Edited December 12, 2005 by buickman

[Croc]

The man's a crook killing the company and you defend him? Recognize the difference between drivel and the passionate drive to save the company I love.
Blind faith is not admirable, nor advisable. Exposing corruption is how we learned of Enron and Worldcom. Wagoner has decimated so much of what was GM and robbed the company of so much capital, the only forseeable outcome is implosion and bankruptcy. Drivel? No, Reality!

[post="57253"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:lol:

[evok]

The man's a crook killing the company and you defend him? Recognize the difference between drivel and the passionate drive to save the company I love.
Blind faith is not admirable, nor advisable. Exposing corruption is how we learned of Enron and Worldcom. Wagoner has decimated so much of what was GM and robbed the company of so much capital, the only forseeable outcome is implosion and bankruptcy. Drivel? No, Reality!

[post="57253"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

More drivel, this is not discussion, just uneducated opinion.

Let me sum up the reality.

1) Mediocre Product from the Zarella era.
2) UAW contract terms that need to change to give the corporation flexibility.

Reality, 2more years until it can be fixed for the last time.

From the article:

"I've gotten a lot of e-mail advice about what to do--and some has been insightful," he laughed. "But you have to have thick skin in this job."

I bet you I know who's emails Rick was laughing at! Edited December 12, 2005 by evok

[caddycruiser]

Not going to say I support anyone either way, but some of you guys really need a good slap upside the head.... Someone who KNOWS what's going on in the INSIDE to a greater extent than you or I could ever dream of, yet everything he says is crazy or a lie...yeah, right. At least he's one person who's actually gone to the meetings and actually HAD a drawn out plan, instead of this... "...but there's no time frame." Okay, fine, there really is no true way to know when things will really start to turn around, but does he have a SINGLE well-layed out plan that they at least think will help get to that point? Saying "There's days you smile and days you frown", is certainly an honest view, but it doesn't say much for what you're actually DOING. Plus, it's not like it has to be any kind of secret. I couldn't imagine being in a situation like Wagoneer is in right now, but he certainly doesn't come off as having a trully clean cut, "This is how we're gonna do it" for sure kind of plan. Edited December 12, 2005 by caddycruiser

[Chazman]

The man's a crook killing the company and you defend him? Recognize the difference between drivel and the passionate drive to save the company I love.
Blind faith is not admirable, nor advisable. Exposing corruption is how we learned of Enron and Worldcom. Wagoner has decimated so much of what was GM and robbed the company of so much capital, the only forseeable outcome is implosion and bankruptcy. Drivel? No, Reality!

[post="57253"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I've been reading your posts for months now, and months ago I even spoke to you, just to find out where you're coming from.

It's obvious that GM's got problems. We may or may not agree with some or all of the decisions that GM management makes....Lord knows that I don't.

But what I get from you and your posts is, that this is not so much about GM getting back on track. It's more about you being pissed off that they didn't pay you big money for your overly simplistics and generally inaffectual plan.

That's my opinion.

[evok]

http://www.autolinedetroit.tv/autoline/archives_2005.html
7/10/2005 Watch for yourself!

[Guest buickman]

I've been reading your posts for months now, and months ago I even spoke to you, just to find out where you're coming from.

It's obvious that GM's got problems. We may or may not agree with some or all of the decisions that GM management makes....Lord knows that I don't.

But what I get from you and your posts is, that this is not so much about GM getting back on track. It's more about you being pissed off that they didn't pay you big money for your overly simplistics and generally inaffectual plan.

That's my opinion.

[post="57356"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Allow me to clarify, I didn't ask GM for any "Big Money". All is requested was fair compensation if, and when, The Plan was effective in regaining market share. The only time I mentioned any form of upfront compensation was when LaNeve insisted I would have to resign as general manager at the dealership due to a conflict of interest. Believing as strongly as I do in Return to Greatness, I agreed to do as he asked. With no paycheck. no health care, no demo, I assumed such a request reasonable. We agreed and shook hands, then he backed out the following week. Thanks Rick.

[Guest buickman]

http://www.autolinedetroit.tv/autoline/archives_2005.html
7/10/2005 Watch for yourself!

[post="57358"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thanks for the endorsement. McElroy said it was the most responded to show he's done in 20 years and extended another invitation. Hits to GeneralWatch.com went through the roof after the broadcast went national on Speedvision. 99% positive reaction.

[Chazman]

Allow me to clarify, I didn't ask GM for any "Big Money". All is requested was fair compensation if, and when, The Plan was effective in regaining market share. The only time I mentioned any form of upfront compensation was when LaNeve insisted I would have to resign as general manager at the dealership due to a conflict of interest. Believing as strongly as I do in Return to Greatness, I agreed to do as he asked. With no paycheck. no health care, no demo, I assumed such a request reasonable. We agreed and shook hands, then he backed out the following week. Thanks Rick.

[post="57359"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

With your comments that there is nothing wrong with GM's product, it's the marketing that's at fault......it's too bad that you didn't start your campaign during Roger Smith's reign. He would have probably made you vice chairman. Or not, but you guys would definitely have been on the same page. Edited December 12, 2005 by Chazman

[evok]

Thanks for the endorsement. McElroy said it was the most responded to show he's done in 20 years and extended another invitation. Hits to GeneralWatch.com went through the roof after the broadcast went national on Speedvision. 99% positive reaction.

[post="57361"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I did not endorse anything. I posted a link giving people info.

[Guest buickman]

I did not endorse anything.  I posted a link giving people info.

[post="57364"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

OK, thanks for sharing the opportunity for people to see for themselves. That is fair game and in good sport. Agree or disagree in principle, at least let's show mutual respect for each other's opinion and the right to express such. Have a beautiful day.

[Cremazie]

The man's a crook killing the company and you defend him? Recognize the difference between drivel and the passionate drive to save the company I love.
Blind faith is not admirable, nor advisable. Exposing corruption is how we learned of Enron and Worldcom. Wagoner has decimated so much of what was GM and robbed the company of so much capital, the only forseeable outcome is implosion and bankruptcy. Drivel? No, Reality!

[post="57253"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I just hope that you are wrong and he can turn GM around. It appears that he is not going anywhere anytime soon.

[goblue1999]

Your repeated drivel is tiring.

[post="57239"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You are the worst kind of poster, the one that shoots down someone else, without offering a rebuttal or an idea of your own. A web posting board is for ideas to be shared, similar to brainstorming, except that you ARE allowed to shoot down ideas that you don't agree with.

It is the most childish of all drivel to simply categorize someone else's work as "tiring" without offering a rebuttal.

YOU are the one that should grow up.

[evok]

You are the worst kind of poster, the one that shoots down someone else, without offering a rebuttal or an idea of your own.  A web posting board is for ideas to be shared, similar to brainstorming, except that you ARE allowed to shoot down ideas that you don't agree with. 

It is the most childish of all drivel to simply categorize someone else's work as "tiring" without offering a rebuttal.

YOU are the one that should grow up.

[post="57420"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I am sorry you feel that way. When 6 months ago, I analysed each and every point of the Return to Greatness and showed much like tannersoc/The O.C. the flaws in the plan. 6 months later, the same plan is being tauted as what will solve the problems at GM. Sorry the boards have been erased so I could link to that analysis. Or at the time, the lack of response from its author.

It would have been one thing if the analysis that many of us shared was incorporated into the plan but that has not happened, even though the author posted countless times he was going to incorporate these discussion. A discussion that is not moving forward is a dead discussion.

The repeated call to fire Wagoner is a mute point, because there is a plan in place. Do you or anyone really think the team running GM does not know what they have to do to succeed. GM is saddled with 30 years of mistakes that can not be overcome with a simple 20 Point plan that is focused on people that are eligible for GM S pricing already and not the real systemic problems the company faces.

Currently, GM is getting beat up in the press, and on the surface it does not look good, but as I have stated countless times, GM's leadership have been making the systemic changes that will result in a better company. The real test if GM will succeed is with the product once that arrives.

And I know many people were hoping for a quicker turn around on the product side with Lutz on board. But, it is too bad that Lutz came in at a time when most of the product that was released under his watch so far was too far along for him to throw out and start from scratch. On top of that, GM would have had to realign their plant rollout to any candance changes by Lutz. One of the many reasons the first round of zeta were axed.

Though GM as organization did make mistakes, GM is still a far better company than they were 5 years ago.

As an organization, they centralized all of NA operations ie purchasing, manufacturing, engineering and marketing and are in the process of consolodating globally. Vehicles will be able to be designed at any of their locations in the world based upon availablity of resourses and then the designed shipped to the appropriate build center just months before launch.

Their NA manufacturing foot print continues to be consolodated where they are able to build more with less. Modular assembly, flexible body shop, and assembly line. GM can/will build it faster with less people on a smaller foot print and adjust their product mix based upon demand. GM's UAW head count reductions are a reflection of this.

GM DAT has been a huge success, not only because of their over night growth in SE Asia, but the growth of the the Chevy brand in Europe and not to mention GMs continued growth in China. GM has over taken VW in China as the number 1 producer. GM DAT went from producing app 500k/yr at the time of the purchase to close to a million today.

There has been significant progress in Europe, breaking down the old Opel organization (1999 Lou Hughes drama), and getting GME diesel powertrains. GM Europe faced many of the same short falls GM NA had, but the benifit of the reorg is finially taking hold with increase in market share and increased productivity.

GM has begun to address the hardest problem they have. Their labor and legacy costs in the US. And because this is so politically sensitive, I would not expect GM to show a significant profit if at all until sometime in 2007 at the earliest.

They already have an agreement as of early fall with the UAW on addressing their health care cost with their retirees. 30,000 more over the next two years will be placed into that system. GM will also benefit from the new prescription drug coverage in Medicare.

This will be used as a holdover until the 2007 labor contract get renegotiated. That will be the last major structural issue they have on the table. Does anyone not think, the Delphi bankrupcy does not play into this saga. The end of the jobs bank, health care coverage they pay into, 401k savings accounts. After that contract is sign, GM will be close to a level playing field with the transplants from Europe and Asia as far as labor goes.

By that time, a good portion of GM product line up should be revamped under Lutz.

I can go on but I would say GM's leadership are addressing the serious issues they have. Now, the product has to continue to be right. GM certainly is increasing their capital investment in new product and powertrains as well. Releases for NA over the next year or so:

Complete new highly profitable 900 Utilities.

Complete new pick up.

3 new lambda utilites.

Saturn Aura

All the above represent app 1.5 million vehicles. That is larger than Nissan and as big a Honda in NA.

It takes years to fix 30 years of blunders, but GM is on the cusp of finially doing just that. There will be no excuses after 2007. GM's Return To Greatness has just been outlined. Rick Wagoner and Team already wrote it. Edited December 12, 2005 by evok

[turbo200]

goblue, please feel free to search through buickman's posts to get an idea of the "drivel" evok was talking about. I've read each of buickman's posts at least ten times already, it gets very tiring after a while, especially when all the intelligent rebuttals in the world won't get him to change his tune.

[FAPTurbo]

Jesus tap-dancing Christ, I hate reading forums that are nothing but arguments.

FOCUS: Although I'm young and naive, I do think that Wagoner is probably the best guy for the job, at least for now.

It seems people also worry about GM losing the Number 1 Spot to Toyota. Although Number 1 always sounds great, in a lot of cases, it isn't. Here's a terrible example:

McDonalds & Burger King. Anytime something bad comes up about Fast Food, McDonalds gets the heat despite the fact that Burger King is also responsible for fat kids.

Same thing with GM and Toyota. Right now, most critics seem to poke and prod every one of GM's moves, and have little good to say about the company, despite its efforts to improve quality(which they have) and release new vehicles. When was the last time Toyota released a totally new vehicle? I have not yet read an article critical of Toyota's lack of new design and yet I have read tons of articles saying that the new HHR is a "PT Cruiser Clone," that it's "too retro" and in another case, "too dopey :blink: ."

Toyota recalls its Hybrids due to software problems, and GM has a recall for the rear latch on its SUV's... guess which recall got more press in my local paper... (cough, GM, cough)

So you know what, let Toyota have the Number 1 Spot. It'll only take a short time until some critic describes the new Camry as "fat and boring." Soon afterwards, maybe writers will realize that Toyota quality may be a thing of the past, and that other brands have matched or surpassed it. With GM in second place, people may finally give Bob Lutz or Rick Wagoner the credit they deserve. Honestly, who cares if your number two. That doesn't stop people from buying Toyota's, and it really won't stop people from buying GM's.

Where's my Rum n' Coke? I need to cool down...

[CARBIZ]

Here, here, Captain. My sentiments exactly. Turning GM around would be like trying to turn the Titanic on a dime. I doubt very much that Wagoner is at liberty to tell us all his plans..wouldn't that be stupid? The Burger King/McDonalds analogy is brilliant. I think GM is on the right track. Give us better products, better marketing and stop making stupid mistakes with respect to quality and we will have a winning formula.

[Guest buickman]

I am sorry you feel that way.  When 6 months ago, I analysed each and every point of the Return to Greatness and showed much like tannersoc/The O.C. the flaws in the plan.  6 months later, the same plan is being tauted as what will solve the problems at GM.  Sorry the boards have been erased so I could link to that analysis. Or at the time, the lack of response from its author.

It would have been one thing if the analysis that many of us shared was incorporated into the plan but that has not happened, even though the author posted countless times he was going to incorporate these discussion.  A discussion that is not moving forward is a dead discussion. 

The repeated call to fire Wagoner is a mute point, because there is a plan in place.  Do you or anyone really think the team running GM does not know what they have to do to succeed.  GM is saddled with 30 years of mistakes that can not be overcome with a simple 20 Point plan that is focused on people that are eligible for GM S pricing already and not the real systemic problems the company faces.

Currently, GM is getting beat up in the press, and on the surface it does not look good, but as I have stated countless times, GM's leadership have been making the systemic changes that will result in a better company.  The real test if GM will succeed is with the product once that arrives. 

And I know many people were hoping for a quicker turn around on the product side with Lutz on board.  But, it is too bad that Lutz came in at a time when most of the product that was released under his watch so far was too far along for him to throw out and start from scratch.  On top of that, GM would have had to realign their plant rollout to any candance changes by Lutz.  One of the many reasons the first round of zeta were axed.

Though GM as organization did make mistakes, GM is still a far better company than they were 5 years ago.

As an organization, they centralized all of NA operations ie purchasing, manufacturing, engineering and marketing and are in the process of consolodating globally.  Vehicles will be able to be designed at any of their locations in the world based upon availablity of resourses and then the designed shipped to the appropriate build center just months before launch.

Their NA manufacturing foot print continues to be consolodated where they are able to build more with less.  Modular assembly, flexible body shop, and assembly line.  GM can/will build it faster with less people on a smaller foot print and adjust their product mix based upon demand.  GM's UAW head count reductions are a reflection of this.

GM DAT has been a huge success, not only because of their over night growth in SE Asia, but the growth of the the Chevy brand in Europe and not to mention GMs continued growth in China.  GM has over taken VW in China as the number 1 producer.  GM DAT went from producing app 500k/yr at the time of the purchase to close to a million today.

There has been significant progress in Europe, breaking down the old Opel organization (1999 Lou Hughes drama), and getting GME diesel powertrains.  GM Europe faced many of the same short falls GM NA had, but the benifit of the reorg is finially taking hold with increase in market share and increased productivity.

GM has begun to address the hardest problem they have.  Their labor and legacy costs in the US.  And because this is so politically sensitive, I would not expect GM to show a significant profit if at all until sometime in 2007 at the earliest.

They already have an agreement as of early fall with the UAW on addressing their health care cost with their retirees.  30,000 more over the next two years will be placed into that system.  GM will also benefit from the new prescription drug coverage in Medicare.

This will be used as a holdover until the 2007 labor contract get renegotiated.  That will be the last major structural issue they have on the table.  Does anyone not think, the Delphi bankrupcy does not play into this saga.  The end of the jobs bank, health care coverage they pay into, 401k savings accounts.  After that contract is sign, GM will be close to a level playing field with the transplants from Europe and Asia as far as labor goes.

By that time, a good portion of GM product line up should be revamped under Lutz.

I can go on but I would say GM's leadership are addressing the serious issues they have.  Now, the product has to continue to be right.  GM certainly is increasing their capital investment in new product and powertrains as well.  Releases for NA over the next year or so:

Complete new highly profitable 900 Utilities.

Complete new pick up.

3 new lambda utilites.

Saturn Aura

All the above represent app 1.5 million vehicles.  That is larger than Nissan and as big a Honda in NA.

It takes years to fix 30 years of blunders, but GM is on the cusp of finially doing just that.  There will be no excuses after 2007.  GM's Return To Greatness has just been outlined.  Rick Wagoner and Team already wrote it.

[post="57440"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Excellent corporate double speak. The company isn't near as good as 5 years ago when we made money, had a decent credit rating, and market share was 5 points higher.
As to the brilliance of Mr. Wagoner, I quote from today's NY Times:

"G.M.'s chief executive, Rick Wagoner, has repeatedly denied speculation that G.M. might have to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, pointing to the company's $19 billion in cash and its array of global assets.

But an S.&P, credit analyst, Robert Schultz, said that the agency was pessimistic that the plan would work and that G.M. might have to seek more drastic measures, namely Chapter 11. He said the agency estimated that G.M. could lose $5 billion in North America and post a $3 billion corporate net loss for 2005.

"This year has witnessed a stunning collapse of G.M.'s financial performance," Mr. Schultz said the report issued today. "

Have Ballew and company go back to the "spin machine" and try again. Can you say "LOSER"?

As to your remark that:
"GM has begun to address the hardest problem they have. Their labor and legacy costs in the US. And because this is so politically sensitive, I would not expect GM to show a significant profit if at all until sometime in 2007 at the earliest."

You are dead wrong, the biggest problem by far and away is the marketing. The job of management is to create solutions within given parameters. In this Wagoner has failed and failed big. He has every excuse in the world except his and his marketing execs own incompetence. Now you say 2007 at the soonest for profit. I say right now. There's your difference, losers complain, winners make changes. Wagoner doesn't know how. He has had more than enough oppportunity. Time to hang it up, Rick. (and take LaNeve with you please). Edited December 12, 2005 by buickman

[turbo200]

Looking back at the products from a custgomer's point of view, this year's finanical performance was expected. GM's administration in 2000 is what led them to where they are now, so I would not say the company was in much better shape then than they are now. Fiscally, they were in a better position, but dynamically they were lost at sea. Finally, a binge of quick sell programs did nothing but destroy the little equity there was in GM vehicles.

[Ghost Dog]

If GM is to have a future the Delphi thing has to work out.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Excellent corporate double speak. The company isn't near as good as 5 years ago when we made money, had a decent credit rating, and market share was 5 points higher.
As to the brilliance of Mr. Wagoner, I quote from today's NY Times:

"G.M.'s chief executive, Rick Wagoner, has repeatedly denied speculation that G.M. might have to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, pointing to the company's $19 billion in cash and its array of global assets.

But an S.&P, credit analyst, Robert Schultz, said that the agency was pessimistic that the plan would work and that G.M. might have to seek more drastic measures, namely Chapter 11. He said the agency estimated that G.M. could lose $5 billion in North America and post a $3 billion corporate net loss for 2005.

"This year has witnessed a stunning collapse of G.M.'s financial performance," Mr. Schultz said the report issued today. "

Have Ballew and company go back to the "spin machine" and try again. Can you say "LOSER"?

As to your remark that:
"GM has begun to address the hardest problem they have.  Their labor and legacy costs in the US.  And because this is so politically sensitive, I would not expect GM to show a significant profit if at all until sometime in 2007 at the earliest."

You are dead wrong, the biggest problem by far and away is the marketing. The job of management is to create solutions within given parameters. In this Wagoner has failed and failed big. He has every excuse in the world except his and his marketing execs own incompetence. Now you say 2007 at the soonest for profit. I say right now. There's your difference, losers complain, winners make changes. Wagoner doesn't know how. He has had more than enough oppportunity. Time to hang it up, Rick. (and take LaNeve with you please).

[post="57492"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Things arent always what they appear to be on the surface. But just like your return to greatness, your still focused on the surface.

[Croc]

Things arent always what they appear to be on the surface. But just like your return to greatness, your still focused on the surface.

[post="57522"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Truer words have yet to be spoken regarding this "Plan."

[regfootball]

my plan for fixing GM is much simpler -much better styling across the board. take a couple brands and ditch the midwestern cruiser car motif and go euro. tighten those panel gaps more. -enormously better interior designs and quality including decent seats and really nice plastic. this is GM's single greatest flaw still. -better engines and powertains across the board including ditching all the 'underteched' pushrod v6's, even if only for marketing reasons. -more feature content and whizbang features per car -lower msrp's or at least correlation between MSRP and sell price. -getting the albatross (unions and supplier contracts) off their backs that keep them from flexible and profitable manufacturing HERE in the US. -educating car salesmen on how to treat customers instead of spending their time being asses, smoking in public (how inviting is that to the general public), and not studying up on their product. and finally Jill Wagner in a tight stretchy LOW cut top selling GM cars instead of Mercury's. Edited December 12, 2005 by regfootball

[Guest buickman]

At the Flint UAW rally yesterday, soon to be covered on PBS, the call was made for "Work to Rule", taking back control of the shop floor in a legal action and force the corporation to: 1. Place instant and complete moratorium on any and all plant closings. Let's focus on doing our job instead of worrying about having it. 2. Eliminate the jobs bank, put the people to work. 3. Demand union representation on the Board. In addition the call may come to allow retirees to vote on all agreements, Look for the newly organized Soldiers of Solidarity to evolve into the Leadership Caucus. Saying Mr. Gregg Shotwell works producing fuel injectors is like calling Walter Reuther a tool and die maker. Look out Mr Gettlefinger, this fellow has the charisma of Martin L King and a Roosevelt like compassion for the people. Solidarity House may soon find itself with a new tenant.

[Croc]

...because THAT will solve any of GM's problems... Yeah, forget it.

[4gm]

What good would it do to have more people building cars that people aren't buying? Soldiers of Solidarity...Return to Greatness...at least there are some catchy names for all this...err...stuff.

[motownr]

The man's a crook killing the company and you defend him? Recognize the difference between drivel and the passionate drive to save the company I love.
Blind faith is not admirable, nor advisable. Exposing corruption is how we learned of Enron and Worldcom. Wagoner has decimated so much of what was GM and robbed the company of so much capital, the only forseeable outcome is implosion and bankruptcy. Drivel? No, Reality!

[post="57253"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Buickman,

Crazy rants like this kill your credibility in this forum.

GM has myriad problems, but the integrity of Wagoner and the rest of management is not an issue except to fringe element nutters who see a conspiracy in everything.

Please tone it down.

[Croc]

Union representation on the board? Not gonna happen.

[Guest buickman]

Buickman,

Crazy rants like this kill your credibility in this forum.

GM has myriad problems, but the integrity of Wagoner and the rest of management is not an issue except to fringe element nutters who see a conspiracy in everything.

Please tone it down.

[post="57641"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

If you recall I predicted the inevitable disaster of GMS and the bloodbath of red ink for the third quarter. Just because you may feel my foresight blurred, don't hesitate to take a good look before passing judgement.

A weak GM management can be partially offset by a strong union.

Horrific marketing can be replaced by effective merchandising.

Waste and corruption can be identified and eliminated.

Profits can be made and market share regained through implementation of proven ideas and strategies.

There is much more involved in Return to Greatness than the first twenty steps, which in essence only attacked the low-hanging fruit. Edited December 13, 2005 by buickman

[97regalGS]

If you recall I predicted the inevitable disaster of GMS and the bloodbath of red ink for the third quarter. Just because you may feel my foresight blurred, don't hesitate to take a good look before passing judgement.

A weak GM management can be partially offset by a strong union.

Horrific marketing can be replaced by effective merchandising.

Waste and corruption can be identified and eliminated.

Profits can be made and market share regained through implementation of proven ideas and strategies.

There is much more involved in Return to Greatness than the first twenty steps, which in essence only attacked the low-hanging fruit.

[post="57661"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

i think it is time to reveal the second twenty steps. it seems we can't agree on the potential success of the first 20, but maybe you've got some nuggets down there in the 30's.

i'm going to go on a limb here and suggest that while you are a successful salesperson that the Next 20 can't be so visionary that a public disclosure of them would have a significant impact on anything or anyone.

[Guest buickman]

i think it is time to reveal the second twenty steps.  it seems we can't agree on the potential success of the first 20, but maybe you've got some nuggets down there in the 30's.

i'm going to go on a limb here and suggest that while you are a successful salesperson that the Next 20 can't be so visionary that a public disclosure of them would have a significant impact on anything or anyone.

[post="57683"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Let me first inquire as to which of the first twenty you feel would be most effective and worth a try.

[johnnyb]

Personally, I think GM is going the right direction. Lutz seems to know what he's doing, and I can only hope the rest of GM is making the right decisions. However, it's still excruciatingly frustrating to see lackluster product being built. Could Zarella really have had such an influence? All GM needs is time, because to tell you the truth, I would only seriously consider a few products from the General right now. The rest could be fed to the dogs, Fisher-Price plastic interiors and vanilla designs included.

[G. David Felt]

Let me first inquire as to which of the first twenty you feel would be most effective and worth a try.

[post="57691"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Personally, I think GM is going the right direction. Lutz seems to know what he's doing, and I can only hope the rest of GM is making the right decisions.

However, it's still excruciatingly frustrating to see lackluster product being built. Could Zarella really have had such an influence? All GM needs is time, because to tell you the truth, I would only seriously consider a few products from the General right now.

The rest could be fed to the dogs, Fisher-Price plastic interiors and vanilla designs included.

[post="57706"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

First off, for sales people I can See where Buickman is going and why he would suggest the turn around he has placed on the table.

I also understand why people think Lutz is the man for now, yet history has taught us many lessons.

1st lesson is that companies like Microsoft can build fortunes with the right marketing message and plan.
2nd Drastic changes must take place to turn a titanic company around.
3rd in a global economy, socialist methodes, IE UAW and those that want to have Government intervention most often causes total failure of the company.

Look at the Unions and how they pressured the steel industry into keeping what they fought so hard to have as a pension program and BOOM. Our steel industry for the most part is dead and the companies are dead. China bought the plants, disassembled them and took them home to make steel cheaper.

Look at so called turn around specialist that did not believe in marketing. Robert Palmer CEO of Digital, he killed the unions, cut cost, yet never believed in leveraging the marketing might like Microsoft to sell what was clearly superior technology. Company dead due to buy out by Compaq and the retirement of those items Compaq did not want to deal with.

Look at Compaq, had a great marketing program in place, but did not invest in R&D to keep the growth of the company and allowed a rapidly and willing to change company called DELL to kill it off and end up having it merge with HP.

HP, tried to integrate the two beast and did an OK job, but it needed a new visionary to move the company forward and continue to grow with a proper marketing campaign.

What we can learn it the following, Solid defined Marketing plane that drives excitement and can increase sales and customer demand. Drastic cut of legacy cost, close the Job bank, Drastic cuts on the socialist UAW contract, Enhancements to current product to peak intrest while driving R&D to bring out better long term products to replace weak products. (Read This as More Features for less cost) Currently Toyota sell's the Matrix, Cousin to the Pontiac Vibe at a lower cost with more features than Pontiac.

Might as well complement Toyota for doing a better job. Cut out this nickel and Dime sell's approach from the 80's and 90's package 2 or 3 bundles that give you mostly everything at a set price. Customers love the simple easy to buy approach of Saturn, Push this out through out all the divisions.

MERGE, MERGE, MERGE, review of all divisions has already clearly shown that we could simplilfy cost by reducing the amount of divisions GM has. Time to focus marketing and R&D dollars on a few divisions that can drive steller profits.

Recruit and promote Young Blood. Lutz had his moment, that is past, from a consultant point of view he has merrit, but from a leadership his time has passed. He was part of the early baby boomers. We have those making money to be the late baby boomers and early x generations. Let those people drive the market by producing product that they will consume.

We are past the Jelly bean years. Time for a mgmt change that I believe the younger mgmt at GM can deliver on. Step aside Lutz, Step aside Wagoner, time for a true changing of the guard. B)

Sales & Marketing MUST work with R&D to WIN. Microsoft has shown us that this combination can and continues to be a winning formula. Something many companies miss or lack a part of. Edited December 13, 2005 by dfelt

[Guest buickman]

First off, for sales people I can See where Buickman is going and why he would suggest the turn around he has placed on the table. 

I also understand why people think Lutz is the man for now, yet history has taught us many lessons.

1st lesson is that companies like Microsoft can build fortunes with the right marketing message and plan.
2nd Drastic changes must take place to turn a titanic company around.
3rd in a global economy, socialist methodes, IE UAW and those that want to have Government intervention most often causes total failure of the company.

Look at the Unions and how they pressured the steel industry into keeping what they fought so hard to have as a pension program and BOOM.  Our steel industry for the most part is dead and the companies are dead.  China bought the plants, disassembled them and took them home to make steel cheaper.

Look at so called turn around specialist that did not believe in marketing.  Robert Palmer CEO of Digital, he killed the unions, cut cost, yet never believed in leveraging the marketing might like Microsoft to sell what was clearly superior technology.  Company dead due to buy out by Compaq and the retirement of those items Compaq did not want to deal with.

Look at Compaq, had a great marketing program in place, but did not invest in R&D to keep the growth of the company and allowed a rapidly and willing to change company called DELL to kill it off and end up having it merge with HP.

HP, tried to integrate the two beast and did an OK job, but it needed a new visionary to move the company forward and continue to grow with a proper marketing campaign.

What we can learn it the following, Solid defined Marketing plane that drives excitement and can increase sales and customer demand.  Drastic cut of legacy cost, close the Job bank, Drastic cuts on the socialist UAW contract, Enhancements to current product to peak intrest while driving R&D to bring out better long term products to replace weak products.  (Read This as More Features for less cost)  Currently Toyota sell's the Matrix, Cousin to the Pontiac Vibe at a lower cost with more features than Pontiac. 

Might as well complement Toyota for doing a better job.  Cut out this nickel and Dime sell's approach from the 80's and 90's package 2 or 3 bundles that give you mostly everything at a set price.  Customers love the simple easy to buy approach of Saturn, Push this out through out all the divisions.

MERGE, MERGE, MERGE, review of all divisions has already clearly shown that we could simplilfy cost by reducing the amount of divisions GM has.  Time to focus marketing and R&D dollars on a few divisions that can drive steller profits.

Recruit and promote Young Blood.  Lutz had his moment, that is past, from a consultant point of view he has merrit, but from a leadership his time has passed.  He was part of the early baby boomers.  We have those making money to be the late baby boomers and early x generations.  Let those people drive the market by producing product that they will consume.

We are past the Jelly bean years.  Time for a mgmt change that I believe the younger mgmt at GM can deliver on.  Step aside Lutz, Step aside Wagoner, time for a true changing of the guard.  B)

Sales & Marketing MUST work with R&D to WIN.  Microsoft has shown us that this combination can and continues to be a winning formula.  Something many companies miss or lack a part of.

[post="57757"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree with most all of this, except I believe the UAW can be brought into the fold. Imagine a truly appreciated work force, willing to sacrifice when necessary as part of a team led by a management equally willing to participate in concessions. For GM to succeed ultimately the best case would see employees, retirees, dealers, suppliers, and management on the same page, going in the same direction with shared trust and mutual respect. Given such circumstance the odds of vistory tilt heavily toward the General. Trouble is management currently isn't to be trusted. Now we can treat the tumor and hope it shrinks, or surgically remove it before the impending death. Thanks Rick.

[evok]

If GM is to have a future the Delphi thing has to work out.

[post="57507"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It will be!

[evok]

You are dead wrong, the biggest problem by far and away is the marketing. The job of management is to create solutions within given parameters. In this Wagoner has failed and failed big. He has every excuse in the world except his and his marketing execs own incompetence. Now you say 2007 at the soonest for profit. I say right now. There's your difference, losers complain, winners make changes. Wagoner doesn't know how. He has had more than enough oppportunity. Time to hang it up, Rick. (and take LaNeve with you please).

[post="57492"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You have no idea about this industry. And I will not be your teacher.

[Croc]

But the UAW has a responsibility to act in the interest of the workers. That does not include "taking one for the team" as concessions make it seem weak to its members. Communism failed, what don't you understand about that? Workers and companies working together for the common good isn't gonna happen anytime soon. Wagoner has NOTHING to do with this. Stop blaming him for everything, it makes you look silly and immature. Is he responsible for global warming, too??

[Guest buickman]

But the UAW has a responsibility to act in the interest of the workers.  That does not include "taking one for the team" as concessions make it seem weak to its members.  Communism failed, what don't you understand about that?  Workers and companies working together for the common good isn't gonna happen anytime soon.  Wagoner has NOTHING to do with this.  Stop blaming him for everything, it makes you look silly and immature.  Is he responsible for global warming, too??

[post="57813"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Take for example the Vermont Teddy Bear Company. Management and workers together operating profitably here in the US. Cooperation doesn't mean communism, it means common sense. I don't blame Wagoner for everything, just losing Olds, the Fiat shell game, Paul Ballew and his utter nonsense, Mark LaNeve and his failed marketing, junk bonds and our increased cost of capital, and now the prospect of offing GMAC. Like it or not, the music to be faced is that Rick Wagoner is personally responsible for the death of General Motors. And to you Mr Evok, I know more about the car business than you'll ever begin to realize. It's really about the people. The cars just bring the people together. After 15,000 individual retail sales and as national sales leader 6 times, it's fair to assume I have a firm grasp on what's going on in this industry, and it's much more than your blathering bs. Edited December 13, 2005 by buickman

[FAPTurbo]

And to you Mr Evok, I know more about the car business than you'll ever begin to realize. It's really about the people. The cars just bring the people together. After 15,000 individual retail sales and as national sales leader 6 times, it's fair to assume I have a firm grasp on what's going on in this industry, and it's much more than your blathering bs.

Whoa... Dude... Chill Out :unsure: ... This is getting stupid. I joined this site because I thought we all like GM in one way or another and we are on here to discuss the issues, not say someone's opinion is bs.

Is it possible to have the admin just delete this message board? This is one board that we all best forget about :( .

[Croc]

you mean this thread, not the entire board i hope!! i think it would just be more convenient if certain users were just banned outright...

[Guest buickman]

you mean this thread, not the entire board i hope!!

i think it would just be more convenient if certain users were just banned outright...

[post="57882"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Just more of Rick's buddies trying to prevent criticism through personal attacks and stopping the free flow of information. GM management has had security digging in my past, and calls have been made to Suski to stop me. These frivolous and vexacious attempts at subtle intimidation are futile. Watch the methodology, derogatory and inflammatory accusations, followed by calls for "banning". They work behind the scenes, and then launch the operation through a coordinated effort. Nice try, however the transparency of your conspiracy is to a degree humorous. Thanks Rick. Edited December 13, 2005 by buickman

[Raybob9289]

Take for example the Vermont Teddy Bear Company. Management and workers together operating profitably here in the US. Cooperation doesn't mean communism, it means common sense. I don't blame Wagoner for everything, just losing Olds, the Fiat shell game, Paul Ballew and his utter nonsense, Mark LaNeve and his failed marketing, junk bonds and our increased cost of capital, and now the prospect of offing GMAC. Like it or not, the music to be faced is that Rick Wagoner is personally responsible for the death of General Motors. And to you Mr Evok, I know more about the car business than you'll ever begin to realize. It's really about the people. The cars just bring the people together. After 15,000 individual retail sales and as national sales leader 6 times, it's fair to assume I have a firm grasp on what's going on in this industry, and it's much more than your blathering bs.

[post="57815"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well said Buickman, I was wondering how much of Dudes attitude you would take.

[evok]

And to you Mr Evok, I know more about the car business than you'll ever begin to realize. It's really about the people. The cars just bring the people together. After 15,000 individual retail sales and as national sales leader 6 times, it's fair to assume I have a firm grasp on what's going on in this industry, and it's much more than your blathering bs.

[post="57815"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Selling cars and understanding the business are two different things. If you really did have a firm grasp on what's going on in this industry, your Return to Greatness Plan would have been accepted by GM and shortly followed by the rest of the industry.

But, that has not happened. Ford, DCX, T, H etc, have not adopted any of your points since they were released 6 months ago. I remember how fearful you were about making them public but they have been for some time. I also believe there was talk of copywriting them.

Maybe, you 20 pts just will not work or show us the data you have compiled outlining why you plan will work. I assume you met with LeNeve and presented him more than 20 bullets!

Pursuade us with facts. Edited December 13, 2005 by evok