GM Enters New Turf With Premium Compact Buick

[67impss]

DETROIT -(Dow Jones)- General Motors Co. will mark its first serious foray into the U.S. premium compact-car segment early next decade when it launches a compact Buick, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said Friday.

The move will be a virtually untested venture for Detroit, where small cars have long been synonymous with entry-level, lower-budget offerings. It is a sign of things to come for the U.S. auto industry as stricter fuel-economy regulations take hold and force car makers to turn out smaller, more fuel- efficient cars.

GM has sold compact Buicks in the past, but not with the features, upscale design and higher price point planned for Buick, Lutz said. He said GM aims to avoid habits of the past with the new Buick.

The auto maker in the 1980s and 1990s sold Buick versions -the Skyhawk and Skylark - of the Chevrolet Cavalier economy car and only slightly higher-scale Pontiac Grand Am. The vehicles were discontinued due to low demand. In the 1980s, the compact Cadillac Cimarron bombed with critics and consumers.

Read article CNNMoney.com

[smk4565]

It is about time. Now bring on the compact Cadillac (rear drive). The 3-series has a 30 year head start though, so GM has a lot of catching up to do.

[deftonesfan867]

It is about time. Now bring on the compact Cadillac (rear drive). The 3-series has a 30 year head start though, so GM has a lot of catching up to do.

Yep just like it took them YEARS to out do the M3 and M5....

[67impss]

DETROIT -(Dow Jones)- General Motors Co. will mark its first serious foray into the U.S. premium compact-car segment early next decade when it launches a compact Buick, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said Friday.

The move will be a virtually untested venture for Detroit, where small cars have long been synonymous with entry-level, lower-budget offerings. It is a sign of things to come for the U.S. auto industry as stricter fuel-economy regulations take hold and force car makers to turn out smaller, more fuel- efficient cars.

GM has sold compact Buicks in the past, but not with the features, upscale design and higher price point planned for Buick, Lutz said. He said GM aims to avoid habits of the past with the new Buick.

The auto maker in the 1980s and 1990s sold Buick versions -the Skyhawk and Skylark - of the Chevrolet Cavalier economy car and only slightly higher-scale Pontiac Grand Am. The vehicles were discontinued due to low demand. In the 1980s, the compact Cadillac Cimarron bombed with critics and consumers.

Read article CNNMoney.com

"The auto maker in the 1980s and 1990s sold Buick versions -the Skyhawk and Skylark - of the Chevrolet Cavalier economy car and only slightly higher-scale Pontiac Grand Am. The vehicles were discontinued due to low demand. In the 1980s, the compact Cadillac Cimarron bombed with critics and consumers."

That was then

This is now

"The car will share some design and other elements of the Astra, which was popular with critics but snubbed by consumers, he said. It will be a four-door that shares a platform with the Astra and soon-to-launch Chevrolet Cruze."

GM will do what they have done in the past expecting a different result (insanity). I still hear Fritz echoing "I am not a believer in re-branding and re-badging." that is only if it's a Buick in Chevy clothing not a Chevy in G8's clothing

"GM initially conceived the Buick as a wagon to replace the Saturn Astra hatchback, which is being discontinued as GM sells the entire Saturn brand. But Lutz said GM concluded the wagons, however practical and attractive, won't win over U.S. consumers. "They just don't do well here" he said."

So GM sells a CTS Sport Wagon instead. Now while I do love the Caddy it'll never be in my price range as a new car. Also while the exterior is to my taste I haven't liked their interiors. Now a Chevy wagon with the turbo Eccotech in the spirit of the Nomad Kappa I'll find the money somewhere somehow.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Good to see that it (maybe) won't be a total rebadge of the Cruze.

[PurdueGuy]

Good to see that it (maybe) won't be a total rebadge of the Cruze.

Sounds like it'll be more like a grill & badge job of the Astra.

[SAmadei]

Sounds like it'll be more like a grill & badge job of the Astra.

Either way... *Yawn*

[ZL-1]

Sounds like it'll be more like a grill & badge job of the Astra.

just like the Regal is a grill & badge job of the Insignia.

[regfootball]

pricing will be most important for this vehicle.

[ZL-1]

They'll have to price it clearly above the Cruze, as the Regal will have to be priced clearly above the Malibu. I hope that in the grand scheme of things this means that the LaCrosse CX is history and that the LaCrosse range can move up a bit in price to give the other two models some breathing room...

[ocnblu]

Hopefully the LaCrosse CX is a temporary place holder to ease the transition into more premium territory and it will disappear when the Regal arrives.

[A Horse With No Name]

For some unknown even to God reason I'm having faith GM will get this one right.

However, VW and Hyundai are on the rise bigtime, Ford is bringing in two very good heavy hitters, (Focus and Fiesta) Chryco has Fiat pushing it to build excellent small cars, Honda and Toyota aren't going anywhere, Nissan will remain popular...

It is going to be a very crowded field. And carmakers know the price of gas will never go down so they will continue to dump big bucks into this.

So I wish them the best of Luck. And I have high hopes. If they get it right I may even buy one.

But a whole lot remains to be seen.

Chris

[hyperv6]

What many seem to foget here is everyone is going to be in this market. With CAFE going up everyone is thinking small. Lincoln Mercury just anounced down sizing and even Aston Martin is working on a car to be built on a Nissan platform to sell in the $30K range in europe.

I have seen pictures of the 2 and 3 door versions in China. THe three door is an Astra and looks good. The Sedan is not just a rebadge of the Cruze. I suspect form what I have been hearing this car will be built in Lordstown.

Both cars will do well in a market that will explode in the future.

The Astra failed at Saturn for two reasons. THey were more expensive in relation to the cars they replaced and GM never marketed them. Few people knew anything about them. I have had several people see the 3 doors and told me they never know Saturn sold them.

[Intrepidation]

Sounds like it'll be more like a grill & badge job of the Astra.

just like the Regal is a grill & badge job of the Insignia.

"I'm not a fan of rebadging"

[ZL-1]

"I'm not a fan of rebadging"

I can understand where the comment came from on that (was it Fritz Henderson? I don't recall), its a whole different context. The Opels are not and have not been sold in the US. The G8 was sold as a Pontiac, so calling it an Impala or Chevelle would fit the implied description of 'bad rebadge'.

[daves87rs]

What many seem to foget here is everyone is going to be in this market. With CAFE going up everyone is thinking small. Lincoln Mercury just anounced down sizing and even Aston Martin is working on a car to be built on a Nissan platform to sell in the $30K range in europe.

I have seen pictures of the 2 and 3 door versions in China. THe three door is an Astra and looks good. The Sedan is not just a rebadge of the Cruze. I suspect form what I have been hearing this car will be built in Lordstown.

Both cars will do well in a market that will explode in the future.

The Astra failed at Saturn for two reasons. THey were more expensive in relation to the cars they replaced and GM never marketed them. Few people knew anything about them. I have had several people see the 3 doors and told me they never know Saturn sold them.

Yes, and no.

More people will be in this market-but the question will be if they can afford it, and it offers something people could really use (ie Sync w/ Focus). I'm not betting the economy is going to get any better any sooner....

[smk4565]

The small premium segment has been crowded for years, Audi, BMW, Volvo, Saab, Mercedes, Lexus, and Acura are all in it. But they for the most part are $30k+, the number of small semi luxury cars for $23-28,000 is very limited, so there is a chance for Buick to seek out a new niche. The Jetta is really the only car there right now (Mini to a degree) and both are geared toward sport, Buick could get buyers that like soft.

A rebadged Cruze will fail because people will know it is a Chevy knockoff. A rebadged Opel could fail because it won't hit enough of what the American market wants (a problem of the GTO, G8 and Astra). They really need to make this car a Buick and somewhat unique.

[hyperv6]

Yes, and no.

More people will be in this market-but the question will be if they can afford it, and it offers something people could really use (ie Sync w/ Focus). I'm not betting the economy is going to get any better any sooner....

Sorry I should have said in a market segement that will explode. To which I mean smaller more efficent cars. I see a need for high mileage higher end cars.

I too see no improvemt for the over all car market and I expect Oil to either go up or the Fed Gov to jack the tax on gas up. They have to find more money to pay for all they are spending as it is not all going to come from the rich.

I see smaller efficent cars being looked at as well as well appointed ones. SOme of these people paying higher taxes will have to go slumming in smaller cars but that does not mean they have to be uncomfortable.

As for the industry as a whole it will take years to see growth in the auto market. I expect to see companies like Toyota to keep burning cash reserves. They may sell a lot of Prius but they need more than that. They have added a lot of debt with the money they spent on larger trucks and SUV's and never made a dime on them.

[Croc]

I don't give a $h! if Buick rebadges Opels. Opels are not available for sale in the US, so why not get a series of cars whose pricepoints Buick can support and are better than what Buick currently sells? I don't see the issue, honestly.

Same reason I don't mind--and actually welcome--Mercury selling the Euro Fords--Ford brand cannot support the imported pricepoints, yet Mercury could given its "premium Ford" marketing/brand positioning. They too will be better-differentiated (from Ford brand) and likely better products than what Mercury currently sells.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Croc

[PurdueGuy]

I can understand where the comment came from on that (was it Fritz Henderson? I don't recall), its a whole different context. The Opels are not and have not been sold in the US. The G8 was sold as a Pontiac, so calling it an Impala or Chevelle would fit the implied description of 'bad rebadge'.

Wait, you're saying that making the Pontiac G8 into a Chevy Impala or Chevelle would fit the term "rebadge", but a Buick Astra doesn't fit the definition? Maybe you missed the part where Saturn sold the Astra?

[ZL-1]

Wait, you're saying that making the Pontiac G8 into a Chevy Impala or Chevelle would fit the term "rebadge", but a Buick Astra doesn't fit the definition? Maybe you missed the part where Saturn sold the Astra?

What I'm saying is that when Fritz (or whoever made the comment) made the rebadging remark about the G8 he meant that rebadging something from Pontiac to Chevy (2 brands sold in the same market) would not be acceptable. Rebadging an Opel would/could be acceptable simply because Opel is not sold in the US.

[PurdueGuy]

What I'm saying is that when Fritz (or whoever made the comment) made the rebadging remark about the G8 he meant that rebadging something from Pontiac to Chevy (2 brands sold in the same market) would not be acceptable. Rebadging an Opel would/could be acceptable simply because Opel is not sold in the US.

Yeah, you still don't make sense. You're saying that rebadging a Holden (not sold in this market) for Chevy would be rebadging, because the car was previously sold through Pontiac, which is in this market. Explain to me how that is different than rebadging an Opel (not sold in this market) for Buick, which was previously sold through Saturn. It's the exact same situation! The way you are stating it as rebadging something from Pontiac to Chevy, I can make the same jump over Opel & say it's being rebadged from Saturn to Buick.

[SAmadei]

What I'm saying is that when Fritz (or whoever made the comment) made the rebadging remark about the G8 he meant that rebadging something from Pontiac to Chevy (2 brands sold in the same market) would not be acceptable. Rebadging an Opel would/could be acceptable simply because Opel is not sold in the US.

Hate to inform you of this so late, but (unfortunately) Pontiacs won't be sold much longer. By the time the G8 would have been converted to a Chevy, the G8 will have been long gone from the new car lots.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Yeah, you still don't make sense. You're saying that rebadging a Holden (not sold in this market) for Chevy would be rebadging, because the car was previously sold through Pontiac, which is in this market. Explain to me how that is different than rebadging an Opel (not sold in this market) for Buick, which was previously sold through Saturn. It's the exact same situation! The way you are stating it as rebadging something from Pontiac to Chevy, I can make the same jump over Opel & say it's being rebadged from Saturn to Buick.

The difference here, is what Saturn sold was the old Astra. What Buick will be selling is the new Astra, totally different cars ...

[hyperv6]

The bottom line is this car will be more than a new grille on a Cruze.

I saw some photo's of the 3 door Buick in China and it looked very sporty and nice. It had a very Euro look to it.

[ZL-1]

The difference here, is what Saturn sold was the old Astra. What Buick will be selling is the new Astra, totally different cars ...

^^this

Sorry I wasn't clear enough...

@ hyperv6 - Got a link tot he 3-door pics? I'm dying to see itr as I think it will be the same car as the new Astra GTC.

Edited August 2, 2009 by ZL-1

[Blake Noble]

You know, I will admit, a small turbocharged Buick coupe would be kind of cool.

[hyperv6]

You know, I will admit, a small turbocharged Buick coupe would be kind of cool.

An Opel Astra based 3 door Buick with a LNF 260 HP turbo option would be sweet.

[Blake Noble]

An Opel Astra based 3 door Buick with a LNF 260 HP turbo option would be sweet.

Three-door? Is this supposed to be a hatchback coupe, i.e. third and fourth gen F-Body?

Edited August 2, 2009 by YellowJacket894

[Robert Hall]

Three-door? Is this supposed to be a hatchback coupe, i.e. third and fourth gen F-Body?

I would assume GM will play it safe and only sell a 4dr sedan w/ automatic version in NA..

Rob

[Blake Noble]

I would assume GM will play it safe and only sell a 4dr sedan w/ automatic version in NA..

Rob

If GM is expecting to retrieve Pontiac customers, they should consider it.

I know you're pretty much spot on the money with your post, though. Four-door automatic sedans, yeah that's going to give Buick an edge in the market.

Even Lexus has a C/C. Buick should have at least one coupe.

[Robert Hall]

Even Lexus has a C/C. Buick should have at least one coupe.

I'm assuming the NG Astra will have a CC (TwinTop) again...maybe Buick can get that also, would be a cool addition to their line.

Rob

[gmcbob]

I just jumped on the Acura website and looked at the pricing for the TSX. Once you start loading one up with the all of the cool options, it starts getting real expensive.

Buick has a MAJOR perception problem though and I just don't see this being a real easy task for GM. (convincing young professionals to drop $30k on a small Buick). This new Buick has to be really awesome - and marketed very cleverly.

[smk4565]

They aren't going to be able to compete with Acura and Lexus. They have to go after a new type of consumer, and go after some of the Jetta's market share. People will pay $25-26k on a Camry or Malibu, Buick needs to get those buyers to drop $25-26k on a compact instead, and I think that is doable. Especially with the 55+ crowd that doesn't need a big family car and just wants comfort.

[hyperv6]

Three-door? Is this supposed to be a hatchback coupe, i.e. third and fourth gen F-Body?

Like an F body?????

More like the new Opel Astra hatch. Opel offers this in 4 door, 5 door and 3 door. It is a given for the 4 door but I would not be suprised to see a three door to compete with the likes of the Mini and other small FWD and AWD coupes. This would also play well vs VW GTI.

Think this only sleeker and with only 3 doors. I do not see this 5 door here as it is more a Euro thing.

It would be easy to replace the Opel emblem with the trishield.

If you want Buick to convince people they changed a car like this could really help. Something of quality and fun to drive that your grandfather would not want sends a good message.

Besides to make this a Buick fast and cheap would not take much money or time. If it tanks the cost get written off on the sales in China or with Opel where it will be their best seller. There is much to gain and little to lose with this deal as long as it is not like the Cruze.

[Blake Noble]

Like an F body?????

More like the new Opel Astra hatch. Opel offers this in 4 door, 5 door and 3 door. It is a given for the 4 door but I would not be suprised to see a three door to compete with the likes of the Mini and other small FWD and AWD coupes. This would also play well vs VW GTI.

Think this only sleeker and with only 3 doors. I do not see this 5 door here as it is more a Euro thing.

The reason I asked that is because, judging from the sketch, it looked like a coupe versus a traditional 3-door hatch, i.e the last generation Opel/Saturn Astra.

It would be easy to replace the Opel emblem with the trishield.

If you want Buick to convince people they changed a car like this could really help. Something of quality and fun to drive that your grandfather would not want sends a good message.

Besides to make this a Buick fast and cheap would not take much money or time. If it tanks the cost get written off on the sales in China or with Opel where it will be their best seller. There is much to gain and little to lose with this deal as long as it is not like the Cruze.

Indeed. A Cruise rebadge would be a fatal mistake for the new GM and the new Buick to make.

[regfootball]

They aren't going to be able to compete with Acura and Lexus. They have to go after a new type of consumer, and go after some of the Jetta's market share. People will pay $25-26k on a Camry or Malibu, Buick needs to get those buyers to drop $25-26k on a compact instead, and I think that is doable. Especially with the 55+ crowd that doesn't need a big family car and just wants comfort.

one plu vs VW is that buicks are not in the shop all the time......

[NOS2006]

OMFG that Opel sketch is gorgeous.

[hyperv6]

The reason I asked that is because, judging from the sketch, it looked like a coupe versus a traditional 3-door hatch, i.e the last generation Opel/Saturn Astra.

Indeed. A Cruise rebadge would be a fatal mistake for the new GM and the new Buick to make.

Sorry I just class the F body hatch in the big RWD class where hateches are not well liked vs trunks.

I was thinking more in a sport coupe like some imports FWD 4 Cylinder and more Honda CRX or Sirocco like.

[PurdueGuy]

The difference here, is what Saturn sold was the old Astra. What Buick will be selling is the new Astra, totally different cars ...

Yeah, no one will be able to tell they're different gens of the same model. There's no way that when the Buick comes out, all the magazines will be saying "this is essentially an Astra, which used to be sold as a Saturn." Yes, it's a different gen and a pretty different car, but the look hasn't changed much, and the mags are still going to make that comparison, so if that comparison is the whole reason for "not rebadging" a car that isn't otherwise available in this market, then it is still an inconsistency IMO. It's not that Buick shouldn't have the Astra, but that if there is a market for the G8 in Chevy clothing in the US (as there seems to be, judging by the strong sales of the G8), then this is a silly reason not to offer it.

[67impss]

Yeah, no one will be able to tell they're different gens of the same model. There's no way that when the Buick comes out, all the magazines will be saying "this is essentially an Astra, which used to be sold as a Saturn." Yes, it's a different gen and a pretty different car, but the look hasn't changed much, and the mags are still going to make that comparison, so if that comparison is the whole reason for "not rebadging" a car that isn't otherwise available in this market, then it is still an inconsistency IMO. It's not that Buick shouldn't have the Astra, but that if there is a market for the G8 in Chevy clothing in the US (as there seems to be, judging by the strong sales of the G8), then this is a silly reason not to offer it.

+ 1 Ditto

[hyperv6]

Yeah, no one will be able to tell they're different gens of the same model. There's no way that when the Buick comes out, all the magazines will be saying "this is essentially an Astra, which used to be sold as a Saturn." Yes, it's a different gen and a pretty different car, but the look hasn't changed much, and the mags are still going to make that comparison, so if that comparison is the whole reason for "not rebadging" a car that isn't otherwise available in this market, then it is still an inconsistency IMO. It's not that Buick shouldn't have the Astra, but that if there is a market for the G8 in Chevy clothing in the US (as there seems to be, judging by the strong sales of the G8), then this is a silly reason not to offer it.

Few people knew about he Saturn Astra since it was never really marketed. How can you sell a car when you seldom mention it's name in print or on television.

I think you will be suprised how good the new car will be and two how many never even knew it was a Saturn. As for what the Magazines say that is what good marketing is for. Seems we have not had much of that in the past and that is about to change soon.

Lutz pointed out how many more Malibu's they sold vs the Aura do to the better marketing alone.

Way too often the Saturn spots showed a show room of cars but never really singled them out and showed anything about them. The Saturn marketing was the worst of any GM did try. THe only thing worse was the silents of not saying anything on many models.

Here is a little play on words from a Detroit boy that understands maketing.

If the product looks good they will see it.

If it sounds good they will hear it.

If it's marketed right, they will buy it.

But ...if it is great car they will feel it.

Building cars like the Astra is for the future. As for the G8 it would only be a couple years. Selling the G8 here as a Chevy looks good on the surface but GM needs to build today to where they need to be in 10-15 years. That is what got them into this mess to start with. The efforts would be best used to make a RWD that will live more than 5-6 years. One that can be built here and uised for more than one model here. We need to do like GM and look long term not short term.

Edited August 3, 2009 by hyperv6

[CaddyXLR-V]

Few people knew about he Saturn Astra since it was never really marketed. How can you sell a car when you seldom mention it's name in print or on television.

How is that any different from the marketing for the G8?

[Camino LS6]

GM just completely screwed the pooch on Zeta from beginning to end.

Every aspect of their handling of that platform was bungled badly - too bad that they chose to be idiots with such a fantastic architecture.

All of the decisions on production and marketing were textbook examples of how not to get it right.

The Saturn Opels are a milder form of the same disease.

Piss-poor management.

[Blake Noble]

Sorry I just class the F body hatch in the big RWD class where hateches are not well liked vs trunks.

Yeah, I should have been more clear on what I was saying. Sorry about that. I was just using the F-Body as an example of a "hatchback coupe," not necessarily meaning the F-Body and the Astra 3-door coupe are in the same size class.

I was thinking more in a sport coupe like some imports FWD 4 Cylinder and more Honda CRX or Sirocco like.

That's exactly what I was thinking. An Astra coupe along the lines of the CRX or the Scirocco/Corrado.

[hyperv6]

How is that any different from the marketing for the G8?

There were G8 TV spots were ther. There were G8 specific ads in magazines. The G8 was used as a pace car at the Daytona 24 Hours. But then again they were only importing 40LK or less cars. THis was a low volume deal.

Show me one ad, tv spot or place the Astra was the only car in the marketing.

[hyperv6]

GM just completely screwed the pooch on Zeta from beginning to end.

Every aspect of their handling of that platform was bungled badly - too bad that they chose to be idiots with such a fantastic architecture.

All of the decisions on production and marketing were textbook examples of how not to get it right.

The Saturn Opels are a milder form of the same disease.

Piss-poor management.

The problem time is running out for the Zeta as it is. Time to focus on the Alpha.

[hyperv6]

Yeah, I should have been more clear on what I was saying. Sorry about that. I was just using the F-Body as an example of a "hatchback coupe," not necessarily meaning the F-Body and the Astra 3-door coupe are in the same size class.

That's exactly what I was thinking. An Astra coupe along the lines of the CRX or the Scirocco/Corrado.

I could see a well styled quality car doing well here. Add real performance like the Cobalt SS has now in handling and HP you would catch the eye of people who avoided Pontiac because they offered no such car.

There is profit in this kind of a car so you don't have to sell a zillion of them.

[Camino LS6]

The problem time is running out for the Zeta as it is. Time to focus on the Alpha.

The problem is that GM always finds a way to fail to utilize what they have, especially when it is good.

Why should Alpha be any different?

Zeta was late to market yes, but as is, it is still good to 2015.

I sure hope it stays around and the next gen merges with the aging Sigma, Alpha just won't be big enough for everything.

[CaddyXLR-V]

There were G8 TV spots were ther. There were G8 specific ads in magazines. The G8 was used as a pace car at the Daytona 24 Hours. But then again they were only importing 40LK or less cars. THis was a low volume deal.

Show me one ad, tv spot or place the Astra was the only car in the marketing.

I have never seen ANY ad for the G8. I have seen Astra's parked in shopping malls for drawings though.