Wilmington/ Penske

[cal]

Seems like the people from Penske may be coming to look at the plant. May want to build more kappas. Not tearing out any production equipment- everything is staying. Interesting...

[Camino LS6]

Very interesting.

[Justin Bimmer]

I'm sure people would still buy them.

[A Horse With No Name]

I know I sure would!

Esp. if they still had the yellow for the sky redline...

Chris

[Blake Noble]

Link please. You have caught my interest.

Edited July 31, 2009 by YellowJacket894

[cal]

Link please. You have caught my interest.

There is no link .This is what is heard in the plant .

[Satty]

www.nowayinhell.com?

[PurdueGuy]

www.nowayinhell.com?

While I am also skeptical for many reasons, there are a lot of things that have happened in the last 2 years, 1 year, heck, even the last several months that most of us would've said "no way in hell" about...

[Satty]

The cost and complexity of running a plant, along with engineering the cars to be built in the plane is too much for Penske to take on, and I doubt they have the money to pay GM to do the grunt work for them.

[Camino LS6]

I guess it depends on how much backing/partnership support Penske has up his sleeve.

[67impss]

I guess it depends on how much backing/partnership support Penske has up his sleeve.

Penske is making money so far both 1/4's and beating expectations by 100% but still not a lot of money not like a manufacturer and his stock is ranked as a neutral hold.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

1) A lot of people underestimate Penske. The man has A LOT of money and even more financial backing. His NASCAR shop in Charlotte has marble floors for gods sake.

2) Just because he bought Wilmington doesn't mean the entire facility would have to crank out cars. Feasibly, although I'm not sure how Wilmington is physically set up, he could lease out the parts of the plant his organization doesn't need.

This peeks my interest a lot. I mean, I'm skeptical but Penske can NEVER be underestimated. God, what I'd give for him to acquire the rights to the Pontiac name. I'd be one step closer to putting GM behind me.

Edited August 1, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Justin Bimmer]

You know when Penske bought Detroit Diesel, they took a company that was resting on its 2-cycle 92 series engines and bought and developed multiple new diesel engine tech and created the #1 diesel engine seller in the North American On-road market.

[67impss]

1) A lot of people underestimate Penske. The man has A LOT of money and even more financial backing. His NASCAR shop in Charlotte has marble floors for gods sake.

2) Just because he bought Wilmington doesn't mean the entire facility would have to crank out cars. Feasibly, although I'm not sure how Wilmington is physically set up, he could lease out the parts of the plant his organization doesn't need.

This peeks my interest a lot. I mean, I'm skeptical but Penske can NEVER be underestimated. God, what I'd give for him to acquire the rights to the Pontiac name. I'd be one step closer to putting GM behind me.

He a shrewd business man and has a lot of cash & friends in the auto field but does he have THAT much backing to open the plant make only the Sky AND be profitable? But hell he may sell GM a version or 2 Imay get that Nomad yet :AH-HA_wink:

[Drew Dowdell]

Wilmington can build a LOT more than just the Kappas. It was a huge, underutilized plant. If Penske could pick it up on the cheap with one production line already functioning.......

[longtooth]

I guess it depends on how much backing/partnership support Penske has up his sleeve.

I wonder(ed) about that too.

Needing the savvy & the will to execute it. I believe that w/Roger's name & the right pitch it could happen.

And it's not as though they need to rush and develop that sprawling property to satisfy the demand for yet another mall.

[67impss]

You know when Penske bought Detroit Diesel, they took a company that was resting on its 2-cycle 92 series engines and bought and developed multiple new diesel engine tech and created the #1 diesel engine seller in the North American On-road market.

Quite close in time frame but it was GM that designed the 8.2 L & the 60 series 4 stroke line. GM was needing cash AGAIN that's why they sold Detroit off and they weren't selling very many class 8's.

[FloydHendershot]

1) A lot of people underestimate Penske. The man has A LOT of money and even more financial backing. His NASCAR shop in Charlotte has marble floors for gods sake.

Well. Outside of Charlotte a lot of places have marble floors.

Wilmington can build a LOT more than just the Kappas. It was a huge, underutilized plant. If Penske could pick it up on the cheap with one production line already functioning.......

How's land Rover doing? Don't know how "cheap" Chrysler was but how did that work out for Daimler?

In this industry especially it amazes me how someone can come in and think they can do such a better job then someone else.

[Drew Dowdell]

How's land Rover doing? Don't know how "cheap" Chrysler was but how did that work out for Daimler?

In this industry especially it amazes me how someone can come in and think they can do such a better job then someone else.

A neither a Penske Saturn nor the Wilmington plant have the baggage of the British Auto industry or the UAW.

[FloydHendershot]

A neither a Penske Saturn nor the Wilmington plant have the baggage of the British Auto industry or the UAW.

That is most likely true but does not mean it's a good idea either. Guaranteed after all the numbers come in the cars produced off those lines would be well over

the price most working people could justify spending. Good or bad not for me to say but not where i would hitch my cart at this time.

(then=than)

[Camino LS6]

The more I think about it, the more I'd love to see it happen.

- Run the exisitng line as is for Sky.

- Utilize another portion of the plant to final assembly of knock-down kits from an import partner.

Grow from there.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Camino LS6

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Well. Outside of Charlotte a lot of places have marble floors.

And cue 'insider' to be a little bitch....

You missed the point entirely.

(But, what else is new?)

It was meant as a joke.

(And yes, his entire NASCAR shop does have marble flooring if anyone was SERIOUSLY wondering )

Edited August 1, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Intrepidation]

Well. Outside of Charlotte a lot of places have marble floors.

How's land Rover doing? Don't know how "cheap" Chrysler was but how did that work out for Daimler?

In this industry especially it amazes me how someone can come in and think they can do such a better job then someone else.

Chrysler was actually doing well before Daimler bought it and gutted it.

To see how things started to go downhill, look no further than the cost cutting that later gen 2 LH cars suffered from. That was just the beginning of course.

[regfootball]

"Buick roadster"

[PurdueGuy]

The biggest thing that makes me skeptical of this is that the big idea for Saturn has seemed to be that Penkse would isolate the company from the luggage of direct manufacturing costs, while capitalizing on manufacturers that already had to cover those costs, and added little more fixed cost to increase volume in existing manufacturing plants, aside from tooling to make the vehicles specific to Saturn (which would be almost zero if the cars are direct rebadges of those only currently available in other countries.)

Penske buying a manufacturing plant would attach Saturn to the manufacturing costs. Not to say that the game plan can't have changed, or there can't be some twist to it, but it's enough to keep me very skeptical.

[!!!TED!!!]

If they could at least save the Solstice Targa...

[ZL-1]

Maybe they're trying to find a place to build the Renault-Samsung-based cars in the US? Funny how everyone (including me) was thinking the Saturn sale would be an ideal entry point into the US market for a Chinese or Indian OEM, and it turns out Renault (via Samsung) makes the smart move.

Edited August 1, 2009 by ZL-1

[A Horse With No Name]

I could see the Renault thing happening.

Chris

[Drew Dowdell]

The biggest thing that makes me skeptical of this is that the big idea for Saturn has seemed to be that Penkse would isolate the company from the luggage of direct manufacturing costs, while capitalizing on manufacturers that already had to cover those costs, and added little more fixed cost to increase volume in existing manufacturing plants, aside from tooling to make the vehicles specific to Saturn (which would be almost zero if the cars are direct rebadges of those only currently available in other countries.)

Penske buying a manufacturing plant would attach Saturn to the manufacturing costs. Not to say that the game plan can't have changed, or there can't be some twist to it, but it's enough to keep me very skeptical.

I think it would be very wise of Penske to not be entirely dependent on "others" to build his cars.

[hyperv6]

I would not put much into this yet. You know how plant rumors run wild.

The problems I see is that Roger would not sell the car as it is. He would want to fix the flaws like the trunk. But to fit things like that would take a major rebuild.

The Renault based cars have more Nissan in them than Renault. I see them being built in Nissan plants here more than a very old GM plant.

As much as I would like to see this I just don't see it working for a low volume car. Roger needs a replacement for the Vue and Aura more than anything else to set himself free of GM.

[Camino LS6]

Could be nothing, but there do seem to be some viable possibilities in this.

[pow]

Hugely unlikely... but a coachbuilder for GM or any other automaker could be sweet. Imagine Fisker, Magna Steyr, or Karmann... building Cadillac Sixteens with LS7 crate engines.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Well somebody better tell EDS then, because they are bagging and tagging equipment to be sent back to Detroit ASAP ...

[cal]

Well somebody better tell EDS then, because they are bagging and tagging equipment to be sent back to Detroit ASAP ...

John,

The tooling is staying put.

Cal

[Oracle of Delphi]

John,

The tooling is staying put.

Cal

Now, now, Cal. We don't use my 1st name here, online I use my middle name "Börger", since I don't use Börger in any official or unofficial capacity at GM.

Ok tooling is staying, what about the AGVs, Skillets, etc. They staying too?

Börger

[cal]

Now, now, Cal. We don't use my 1st name here, online I use my middle name "Börger", since I don't use Börger in any official or unofficial capacity at GM.

Ok tooling is staying, what about the AGVs, Skillets, etc. They staying too?

Börger

Apparently they are staying. Sorry for using your real name, Borger.

[Camino LS6]

The dream in all of this is that the Solstice Targa might get to live on.

At least as far as I'm concerned that's the dream.

That car is cool enough that even I would consider it, despite how small it is.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Apparently they are staying. Sorry for using your real name, Borger.

It's cool dude, I am a very forgiving Börger ...

[Blake Noble]

Would you forgive me if I started calling you Johnny or John Boy?

[PurdueGuy]

The dream in all of this is that the Solstice Targa might get to live on.

At least as far as I'm concerned that's the dream.

That car is cool enough that even I would consider it, despite how small it is.

Not sure how that would happen, but it doesn't hurt to dream... not until they get crushed like a '95 Olds Aurora in the clunkers program.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Would you forgive me if I started calling you Johnny or John Boy?

Sure, it doesn't equal to what I call you though ...

[cal]

Sure, it doesn't equal to what I call you though ...

getting off topic now,aren't we kids ?

[Camino LS6]

Not sure how that would happen, but it doesn't hurt to dream... not until they get crushed like a '95 Olds Aurora in the clunkers program.

Like I said, it's the dream.

[hyperv6]

Like I said, it's the dream.

One has to use care with dreams on the web as they often get translated into false rumors.

Roger may just need part of the parking lot to park a Penske rental truck on to to have an address to call it his Saturn Corp Headquarters. It is Deleware you know.

[Blake Noble]

Sure, it doesn't equal to what I call you though ...

Ouch, baby. Very ouch.

[Camino LS6]

One has to use care with dreams on the web as they often get translated into false rumors.

Roger may just need part of the parking lot to park a Penske rental truck on to to have an address to call it his Saturn Corp Headquarters. It is Deleware you know.

Meh, not really my problem if rumors start from a post in this thread. I'll dream however I wish, on or off the web.

Your Delaware thought also occurred to me, could be all that there is to this.

I guess we'll see eventually.

[Justin Bimmer]

I don't think the law requires that you have a very large physical presence in order to incorporate in Delaware. Many many companies are incorporated there and their headquarters or principal place of business is elsewhere.

[hyperv6]

I don't think the law requires that you have a very large physical presence in order to incorporate in Delaware. Many many companies are incorporated there and their headquarters or principal place of business is elsewhere.

I thought at one time you only needed a mailing address and to be registered in Deleware. Note many Corps just give PO boxes there. That is why I was kidding about the Penske rental truck.

I would suspect that Saturn will be in DE. But now many companies are now under a LLC registration. I am not fully aware how that one works yet.

[Chicagoland]

Three words on why this dream won't happen: United Auto Workers. More likely, tooling will be shipped overseas for cheap labor to build new Saturns.

Even if Pontiac name was sold, it would be re-badged cheap imports, not new GTO's, etc.