This will make you sick...Oldsmoboi...do not watch

[toesuf94]

This was a really nice looking first gen Aurora. Wyzata Nissan...so an American car gets traded on a Japanese car and destroyed...it gets worse;

Look what is beside the 7er - sure to meet the same fate.

I want to do this to everyone who voted for this bill. Absolute bull $h!. Tax dollars at work right here people!

Edited July 30, 2009 by toesuf94

[Intrepidation]

That poor Aurora and BMW, I love those. The more I see this program the more I hate it.

[Drew Dowdell]

I have mixed emotions about this program. It's going to take a lot of crap off the road but some good cars are going to be swept up in it too.

My issue with the deal is this. Which produces more pollution, a 1985 Civic or a 2000 LeSabre? Which of those is eligible under this program?

[Z-06]

My issue with the deal is this. Which produces more pollution, a 1985 Civic or a 2000 LeSabre? Which of those is eligible under this program?

+1

[Blake Noble]

For everyone one car like this CFC takes off of an American highway ...

We loose two great cars like the BMW or the Aurora.

There has to be some sort of flaw in the CFC program that could allow someone to save some of these cars.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well, an Aurora with 240k + miles isn't going to be worth much. It'll get sent to the U-Pick-It yard for Dodgefan to snatch parts so he can turn his Intrepid into the Aurora he's always wanted. Northstars are good engines, but they aren't really longevity engines because they get so expensive to fix.

[Justin Bimmer]

Yeah, the 3800 II is a ULEV and the 85 civic is not.

[Blake Noble]

That Aurora might still have had plenty of life left in it if someone properly maintained it ...

[Intrepidation]

Well, an Aurora with 240k + miles isn't going to be worth much. It'll get sent to the U-Pick-It yard for Dodgefan to snatch parts so he can turn his Intrepid into the Aurora he's always wanted. Northstars are good engines, but they aren't really longevity engines because they get so expensive to fix.

That would be sacrilege, but I have always wanted to buy an Aurora.

[A Horse With No Name]

That Olds didn't want to die...kept trying to live...

Interesting that soooo many Jeeps around here are getting traded in. Drove past the Hyndai dealer on my way home from work...8 more cherokee's...Eight of them. Ranging from the original cherokee in the two door body style to an original cherokee with the woodgrain to a Grand Cherokee that looked absolutely utterly brand new.

Also, an Infinity Q45, odd choice for a Hyundai trade but...interesting.

Chris

[Drew Dowdell]

That would be sacrilege, but I have always wanted to buy an Aurora.

You're right. It would be sacrilege to put those wonderful Aurora parts on an Intrepid, but I wouldn't put it past you.

[A Horse With No Name]

He needs a fleet...An Aurora and an Intrepid would be a sweet pair.

Chris

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

That is so sad watching that. There are some cars that truly need to be off the road because of their condition. There are cars like these two which do not deserve this fate. I have this odd feeling some will regret this decision later. You are now making payments again and more.

[A Horse With No Name]

Exactly, 98 Regency.

Since Hyundai is making so many sales, how happy will these people be at 70k miles when their crapbox falls apart and they owe 12k still on a 2k car?

Chris

[fightingbee]

There are some cars that truly need to be off the road because of their condition.

Almost none of which will be taken on the road by this program. Those people largely cannot afford new vehicles.

The vehicles being destroyed are likely cleaner and/or more efficient than those true "clunkers" out there.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Just how much air pollution is this process making? Great program...

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Question: How many years of driving an old pos 80s car around would it take to equal the amount of pollution from MAKING and SHIPPING a new car?

[Camino LS6]

Another valid question, Teh.

This whole thing is window dressing.

[A Horse With No Name]

As anyone can tell...I am very passionate about this. Why else would I have 25 or 30 posts in the other thread?

However...I think for some people this program will do them a lot of good. Looking over the dealer lots, lots of vehicles in not great shape are getting crushed. Several really cool vehicles are getting crushed, like the 29K original mile 84 Cutlass I wrote about in the other thread.

In real terms, as one of my old room-mates from Alabama once said "we're already screwed" We have lost perhaps a few thousand cars out of the 250,000 or so vehicles they will crush.

The guys that will take this hardest will be the off road guys, as so many Jeeps are being lost. My wife has a relative that got his Jeep in JP magazine. The offroad guys have a whole different outlook on this.

The other hobbyists I feel sorry for are the Circle Track guys and the Engene builders, as so many good V8 cores will be destroyed.

Chris

[!!!TED!!!]

Horrible to watch those videos.

If it were my job to kill engines, I would quit.

[ocnblu]

What a double-edged sword this program is. These videos are truly sickening to watch.

[SAmadei]

Question: How many years of driving an old pos 80s car around would it take to equal the amount of pollution from MAKING and SHIPPING a new car?

According to a C&D article from about 8 years ago, even the WORST polluting POS would have to be run, non-stop for 50 years to equal the amount of pollution created by the building and shipping of a new car.

Granted, some of that is hyperbole, but knowing how much effort it takes to bend sheetmetal and the NASTY chemicals left over from the painting and molding processes and the various circuit board creations, it does not surprise me one bit.

[balthazar]

I was under the impression the primary goal for the C4C was to save oil, not reduce pollutants.

[rkmdogs]

As anyone can tell...I am very passionate about this. Why else would I have 25 or 30 posts in the other thread?

The other hobbyists I feel sorry for are the Circle Track guys and the Engene builders, as so many good V8 cores will be destroyed.

Chris

You may not have heard tonights' news. So many people in MI. have bought into this program,

THEY HAVE RUN OUT OF SUBSIDY MONEY!

There was "only" 1 Bil released from the 4Bil appropriated --- so the whole program is on a hold.

Dealers are pissed, not getting the money.

I also heard that the engines have to be removed before the crushing, and they can be sold by

the scrap dealer. Guess where that metal is going? ----- CHINA!

Edited July 31, 2009 by rkmdogs

[daves87rs]

Oh my...I really should not have clicked for the Olds.....that just made me sick.....

[2005 EquinoxLS]

I think that the program isnt always a bad thing but there should have been a few more provisions in it.

1. The replacement should be from one of the big 3. No trading a Chevrolet for a Honda.

2. If it is something old where there are usable parts they should have the discretion to sell it for parts. Engine included.

3. If by chance somebody trades something old enough to be a classic that has some life then they should be able to sell it. Like the 1981 and 1985 I have just for examples

[toesuf94]

I think that the program isnt always a bad thing but there should have been a few more provisions in it.

1. The replacement should be from one of the big 3. No trading a Chevrolet for a Honda.

2. If it is something old where there are usable parts they should have the discretion to sell it for parts. Engine included.

3. If by chance somebody trades something old enough to be a classic that has some life then they should be able to sell it. Like the 1981 and 1985 I have just for examples

But the program is supposed to be for cars from 1987/1988 and UP....the '84 Cutlass with low miles should never have been able to be put in this program! But I agree...if some idiot trades in an '89 Trans Am turbo - that car should be exempt due to it's collector car status.

Last night's take at the local Chevy dealer: 1988/89 Supercharged Grand prix...had the vented hood...VERY ROUGH CAR.

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

There are those cars they made only a few copies of that will be destroyed. For example I know they did not make that many 1990-1992 Oldsmobile Toronados. That is one less car that could still be used. That Aurora in that video may not be rare, but that car with a little work would still be drivable daily.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I still don't understand why the engines and transmissions can not be resold by the junk yards if they are in decent condition. How does that save oil? The car is crushed anyway, meaning it wont be driving anymore. The engine will sit at a junkyard until someone comes along with a car with an engine in worse condition, and buys the engine to replace their engine. What next, ban companies from making replacement parts for used cars that get less than 20mpg so they will be forced to buy a new car?

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

By destroying these old turn-in cars, it makes cars in the used car market worth more, which in turn is worse for poor people who would just like to get some sort of car.

Way to not help the poor people congress!

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

Volvo S80 being destroyed:

That Volvo fought hard.

Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 being destroyed:

Sad...... That was quick.

[!!!TED!!!]

Heres a really horrible one:

[A Horse With No Name]

But the program is supposed to be for cars from 1987/1988 and UP....the '84 Cutlass with low miles should never have been able to be put in this program!

Program is for 84 and up.

And TED, thanks for the videos.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Volvo S80 being destroyed:

That Volvo fought hard.

Volvo's are damned good cars. Shame that one had to die.

Chris

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

Engine Disablement Procedures for the CARS Program

THIS PROCEDURE IS NOT TO BE USED BY THE VEHICLE OWNER

Perform the following procedure to disable the vehicle engine.

1. Obtain solution of 40% sodium silicate/60% water. (The Sodium Silicate

(SiO2/Na2O) must have a weight ratio of 3.0 or greater.)

2. Drain engine oil for environmentally appropriate disposal.

3. Install the oil drain plug.

4. Since the procedure is intended to render the engine inoperative, drive or move the

vehicle to the desired area for disablement.

5. Pour enough solution in the engine through the oil fill for the oil pump to circulate

the solution throughout the engine. Start by adding 2 quarts of the solution, which

should be sufficient in most cases.

CAUTION: Wear goggles and gloves. Appropriate protective clothing should be

worn to prevent silicate solution from coming into contact with the skin.

6. Replace the oil fill cap.

7. Start the engine.

8. Run engine at approximately 2000 rpm (for safety reasons do not operate at high

rpm) until the engine stops. (Typically the engine will operate for 3 to 7 minutes. As

the solution starts to affect engine operation, the operator will have to apply more

throttle to keep the engine at 2000 rpm.)

9. Allow the engine to cool for at least 1 hour.

10. With the battery at full charge or with auxiliary power to provide the power of a fully

charged battery, attempt to start the engine.

11. If the engine will not operate at idle, the procedure is complete.

12. If the engine will operate at idle, repeat steps 7 through 11 until the engine will no

longer idle.

13. Attach a label to the engine that legibly states the following:

This engine is from a vehicle that is part of the Car Allowance Rebate System

(CARS). It has significant internal damage caused by operating the

engine with a sodium silicate solution (liquid glass) instead of oil.

The sad thing was watching that 1992 Cadillac Deville die on the local news. The woman said it was a boat and it guzzled gas. That car was not a boat. She traded it in for a Hyundai Santa Fe suv?

What is wrong with that picture?

[A Horse With No Name]

The Hundai Santa Fe is a POS. She will be sorry she did that methinks.

Chris

[Blake Noble]

I don't pity her at all. She deserves what's coming to her.

[A Horse With No Name]

5 years of wage slavery to a bank at $409 a month in 60 not so easy..."easy payments..."

Chris

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

This program will cause a sudden increase in sales this month, and several months of lower than average sales.

In the end, this program is non-beneficial to anyone, except the few people who got in on it.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[fightingbee]

A local news program showed the Kia dealer with a rare Dakota convertible in its "clunker" row. One of the national programs was showing several rather decent looking Astros/Safaris awaiting death as well.

[2005 EquinoxLS]

I checked my dealer to see what they had and most arent going to be a loss there were a few good ones. A Ford Expedition which I suppose the program is trying to get off the road. A nice Dodge Durango. A few nice Astro/Safari vans. Other than that the rest arent really going to be a loss. There is an older Toyota pickup(Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

[ToniCipriani]

Volvo S80 being destroyed:

That Volvo fought hard.

That's even a T6 model (can tell by the wheels). My family has one exactly like that except it's silver, and it's still in active service. Probably has like 80-90k kms on it now, but it's still rock solid.

[Intrepidation]

For all of the dealers who think it's fun and laugh at the videos, I do hope you get screwed out of the money and go under.

[cletus8269]

Heres a really horrible one:

the guy saying F that chevy at the end of the movie... its funny, musta learned that from his mamma cause she kept sayin that all night last night

[Sixty8panther]

The Aurora made me depressed, but it DID live to see almost a 1/4 million miles.

The BMW on the other hand, looked in nicer shape than my wife's '88 735iL and

might have had less miles.

What sucks the most is the stories I'm hearing of perfectly respectable, safe &

economical B-body wagons, No* powered Cadillacs & clean pickups being

destroyed for the sake of giving Honda another Civic sale or Toyota more $$$

for some sh1tbox Scion.

[Sixty8panther]

That super clean white Suburban with barn doors made me sick to my stomach!

At least the Caprice Wagon got to do one last burnout.

[Sixty8panther]

Question: How many years of driving an old pos 80s car around would it take to equal the amount of pollution from MAKING and SHIPPING a new car?

I've talked to a few nerds who say the "carbon footprint" of

producing a Toyota Prius is prob. enough to make it

environmentally UNfriendly as compared to just buying a

clean, cheap, used Focus, Altima, PT cruiser, Civic, Golf....

[thedriver]

Well, it looks like the dealers participating in the program are receiving their due. The $4500 counts as taxable income for the dealership, so for their trouble they have to pay more taxes. Beautiful.

[daves87rs]

That super clean white Suburban with barn doors made me sick to my stomach!

At least the Caprice Wagon got to do one last burnout.

+1

[2005 EquinoxLS]

I dont mind the foreign cars being destroyed but some of the nice older American ones that are giving their lives so somebody can give money to the foreign companies. I am not too critical of this program since it is doing its intended purpose. The one thing they should have written into the thing was that the new vehicle had to come from one of the big 3. Thats just me.