Time to start trolling the lots for...

[toesuf94]

Well, the Clunker Program is in full swing, and I have to tell you: It makes me sick. This is the STUPIDEST thing I think the government has ever wasted our money on, and really decent cars are going to be scrapped because of it. Further, I really think if the government had half a brain, they would have demanded that the trade ins could only be made on a domestic owned lot - Ford - GM - Chrysler - so that the money came back home, not further increase the trade deficits.

So, get out there, cruise the back lots and tell me what you find.

I will start off with a really nice '99 Wrangler YJ 6 cylinder 5 speed hard top - no rot, great shape...needed a bath...will never see the road again. I will tell you that I saw 7 cars behind our local dealer last night, all marked CLUNKER - NOT FOR SALE. I would have driven 4 of them proudly. They are destined for the crusher. WASTE!

Tell me what you find kids!

[z28luvr01]

Further, I really think if the government had half a brain, they would have demanded that the trade ins could only be made on a domestic owned lot - Ford - GM - Chrysler - so that the money came back home, not further increase the trade deficits.

This

[Intrepidation]

Yeah, an example of flawed logic is at this photo:

Greenbrier Volkswagen, Chesapeake VA

Notice how none of those are VWs, not even foreign. That poor GC and CV.

[cletus8269]

the only silver lining i can begin to see positive is the 87 model year cut off.

[!!!TED!!!]

It begins!

I HATE THIS PROGRAM.

Look what one dealer wrote on Jalopnik:

I'm at Don Beyer Volvo in Falls Church, VA..

I HATE this program, I am responsible for blowing up the engines on all of these vehicles before they can be hauled off for crushing.

I am required to drain the oil, pour water mixed with Sodium Silicate into the crankcase and run the motor until it fatally blows up. ($15,000 Federal Penalty for each vehicle that this is not done to)

The willfull killing of working cars is against my religion.

This makes me so mad....

[Intrepidation]

None of my cars will ever see such a sad fate.

[Robert Hall]

Yeah, an example of flawed logic is at this photo:

Notice how none of those are VWs, not even foreign. That poor GC and CV.

Maybe I should do that with my Jeep. Working to fix the d*mn broken driver's seat track now.

Rob

[Intrepidation]

Have I ever mentioned how I despise the throw away mentality of our society?

[Robert Hall]

Have I ever mentioned how I despise the throw away mentality of our society?

Yeah..it is ridiculous. Just kidding about scrapping my Jeep....but having the seat track break really ticked me off..

Rob

[Intrepidation]

Yeah..it is ridiculous. Just kidding about scrapping my Jeep....but having the seat track break really ticked me off..

Rob

The actual track broke?

[Robert Hall]

The actual track broke?

Yes...the notorious '99-04 Grand Cherokee driver's seat track problem bit me a week ago Sunday. The power mechanism works fine, all 8 ways..but the track metal sheared off on the left front corner and right rear corner, right below where the track bolts to the seat base. So the seat rocks side to side.

I was able to get the track unbolted from the floor last night...da*mn 115 degree heat..I despise Arizona with every fabric of my soul..got to get out of this state. Now I have to unbolt the seat from the track and disconnect the wiring. Ordered a shop manual DVD. I've found salvage, working tracks for $250 on ebay, better than paying $750-1000 for a dealer to replace the entire seat and track.

ARRRRGGGGHHHHHH

Rob

Edited July 28, 2009 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Intrepidation]

Yes...the notorious '99-04 Grand Cherokee driver's seat track problem bit me a week ago Sunday. The power mechanism works fine, all 8 ways..but the track metal sheared off on the left front corner and right rear corner, right below where the track bolts to the seat base.

ARRRRGGGGHHHHHH

Rob

Well it looks like you'll find plenty of spare parts at the junkyard.

The Prizm had a seat issue where the cable came off so only one track worked. Easy enough to fix but required taking the seat out. Ever since the accident it's been messed up though. When we first got the Grand Marquis the previous owner had somehow managed to break the seat frame, separating the upper part from the track. I've not yet had a seat issue with my car, but they are a pain to remove, because you can't get at the rear bolts unless the seat is all the way forward, and the fronts unless it's all the way back. Not an issue with manual seats but a bit more so with power seats.

[toesuf94]

so they ARE blowing up the engines before they can be hauled away? Holy Crap is that a horrible thing to do to a working car or truck! The failed logic of this is beyond comprehension.

Sorry about the seat track...head over to the local dealers...so far I have counted 5 GC's on the clunker lists...you should be able to find a seat track...and if the dealer is cool, should let you slide on grabbing it - after all - YOU OWN IT.

In the photo posted by Dodgefan, we see $27,000 of our money helping the VW dealer sell cars after we just poured how much into the domestic makers?

[gm4life]

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard off. Good cars will be hitting the crusher. I can only imagine how many wonderful early 90's Cadillac Devilles and Fleetwoods will be hitting the dirt.

[siegen]

The idea of the program is a great one. My gripe is that the requirements and minimums are too soft, mainly for trucks and other large vehicles. There needs to be more incentive for people who own older trucks and large vehicles to downgrade to passenger cars. As it is, someone who owns a 14mpg truck can trade it in for a 15mpg truck and get $3,500 cash. What a waste of resources. The fact that the cash is drying up too quick shows that the government was too lenient with the program.

As for customers trading in their domestic vehicle for a foreign one, whose fault is that? The domestic automakers for not doing their job and attracting customers.

Edited July 28, 2009 by siegen

[A Horse With No Name]

Have I ever mentioned how I despise the throw away mentality of our society?

+1

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard off. Good cars will be hitting the crusher. I can only imagine how many wonderful early 90's Cadillac Devilles and Fleetwoods will be hitting the dirt.

Dude, you have NO IDEA. Before this program, at Ace Iron and Scrap, where I scrap Copper wire, LOTS of Caddy's buicks and Olds, many of them easy fixes, were dropped into the crusher whole.

I'm talking some nice looking vehicles, cars that look as nice as your Impala or even better.

Like Ted said, the wasting of cars is against my religion.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

the only silver lining i can begin to see positive is the 87 model year cut off.

True.

I remember reading about how a factory Tri Power Pontiac (Catalina IIRC) went to the crusher whole a few years ago in Cali.

Also, someone turned in a fully restored award winning 41 Chevrolet Pickup truck, stock restored, that also went to the crusher. Read about that one too...I think someone's relative died and they just sold it to the Clunker program and they crushed it.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Well, the Clunker Program is in full swing, and I have to tell you: It makes me sick. This is the STUPIDEST thing I think the government has ever wasted our money on, and really decent cars are going to be scrapped because of it. Further, I really think if the government had half a brain, they would have demanded that the trade ins could only be made on a domestic owned lot - Ford - GM - Chrysler - so that the money came back home, not further increase the trade deficits.

So, get out there, cruise the back lots and tell me what you find.

I will start off with a really nice '99 Wrangler YJ 6 cylinder 5 speed hard top - no rot, great shape...needed a bath...will never see the road again. I will tell you that I saw 7 cars behind our local dealer last night, all marked CLUNKER - NOT FOR SALE. I would have driven 4 of them proudly. They are destined for the crusher. WASTE!

Tell me what you find kids!

One would theink that the Jeep would be worth more than $4500 in the open market.

Chris

[Blake Noble]

The Cash for Clunkers program simply enrages me.

It's a big hit here in Kentucky. Channel 27 news did a short segment on it the other night and someone had basically given away a '97 Ford Expedition in excellent shape. If I remember correctly, I believe they traded it in on a Ford Fusion hybrid. It seems that's the whole underlying motive behind this little incentive: to get Americans to buy smaller, more fuel efficient cars and not drive the cars they want (for those that are smart enough to see beyond the smoke and mirrors).

Some cars are not deserving of such a fate and there are people out there who are not as fortunate who would be more than happy to drive, own, and maintain them.

I'm proud to own cars that my government does not want me to and that's the way it's going to stay. Forever.

Edited July 29, 2009 by YellowJacket894

[FAPTurbo]

It's a big hit here in Kentucky. Channel 27 news did a short segment on it the other night and someone had basically given away a '97 Ford Expedition in excellent shape. If I remember correctly, I believe they traded it in on a Ford Fusion hybrid. It seems that's the whole underlying motive behind this little incentive: to get Americans to buy smaller, more fuel efficient cars and not drive the cars they want (for those that are smart enough to see beyond the smoke and mirrors).

But what if the owner of the Expedition didn't want to drive it anymore, and decided that a Fusion would be preferable? Although I don't think it makes economic sense to send a vehicle like that to the program where it instead could likely fetch a better dollar on the market.

Of course one of the main motives is to get people to trade in their unnecessarily large gas guzzlers; I don't think that was ever concealed from people - in fact, I'm under the impression that's one of its missions.

[fightingbee]

Didn't get a pic, but while driving through the Honda dealer's lot in Daphne, AL last weekend I did see a "clunker" that would break the heart of many here. It was a pretty decent looking gold '91-'96 style Roadmaster wagon with the "wood" paneling and IIRC the skylight too.

They also had an 80's G-body cutlass but at least it did looked ready for crushing, unlike the Buick.

[Robert Hall]

But what if the owner of the Expedition didn't want to drive it anymore, and decided that a Fusion would be preferable? Although I don't think it makes economic sense to send a vehicle like that to the program where it instead could likely fetch a better dollar on the market.

Yeah, being that old it probably had over 100k and was nickel and diming them to death. I'm sure the owners will be happier with something new. The resale value on SUVs--esp. full size ones has tanked since last summer.

Rob

Edited July 29, 2009 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[fightingbee]

"Saving the environment by throwing stuff away"

Pretty much sums it up.

[regfootball]

well, to go from a 15mpg vehicle into a 40 mpg vehicle kind of illustrates what can be done with it.

But this is just a band aid. it temporarily eases consumption to appease the greenies / gore freaks and the leftists who want to steer policy to only wanting you to drive small $h!boxes.

it does not address any of the problems of foreign oil sourcing or the advancement of alternate propulsion.

its not my fault though. People got caught up in the PR campaign that was global warming.....and the financial scam that was 'gas shortage' - AKA 4 dollar gas.

And in the end the government spends a billion and leaves us all with more of a tab we can't pay.

I am most pissed about this. My tranny is going bye bye on the aztek. If i had gotten the AWD version it would have qualified for clunkers. I got the FWD and its not available. So with an about to be toast tranny, my car has no value. At least with clunkers, a nice 4500 reward would ease the decision making for me.

Smoke and mirrors though. If you look and learn, the incentives 2 months ago were far better.....like 2, 3 grand better on some vehicles. Now GM for example has less incentives, as they are letting the govt make up the difference and then some.

It basically becomes an auto industry subsidy.

I am not totally against it. At least they didn't funnel the money to national public radio or something vile like that. At least GM and Ford provide jobs and make stuff instead of cultivating an irrational set of priorities for its listening base (i.e. green at all costs, etc. yada)

[Blake Noble]

But what if the owner of the Expedition didn't want to drive it anymore, and decided that a Fusion would be preferable? Although I don't think it makes economic sense to send a vehicle like that to the program where it instead could likely fetch a better dollar on the market.

I have no problem with what they bought, really. But I have a big problem with what they did to their Expedition. Like you said, it would have made much better sense to sell it privately (it might would have brought more than $4500) then use that money for a downpayment for the car they wanted, since they had to apply for a loan anyway.

Of course one of the main motives is to get people to trade in their unnecessarily large gas guzzlers; I don't think that was ever concealed from people - in fact, I'm under the impression that's one of its missions.

Emphasis on what this incentive was meant to do is never highlighted to the public when it is advertised. It's there when you read the fine print, but ...

[toesuf94]

I see a few problems with this bill: Mostly the wanton wasting of working automobiles. Sure, some POS cars are off the streets, but a fair many of them are not - like the Roadmaster wagon mentioned before. If that car was an LT1 car, then it BARELY meets the MPG cut off. Further, We the People are paying for this program and the benefits will probably NEVER be seen. Yeah, the dealers will sell some more cars - but the price of scrap should drop heavily due to the flood of steel suddenly on the market. Further - there is no return to the program - why not sell the cars to insurance pools and at least recoup some of the money. Brand them destruction only so they never hit the street in one piece again - at least the parts of value would not be wasted.

The other problem I see is the 1986 cutoff. Now the people who could buy the 1995 Roadmaster with the LT1 cannot - they are now too expensive at $4500 - so they maybe buy what is left: an '86 Cutlass Cruiser. Now, we all will probably agree that the Roady would get better mileage and would be less of a polluter than the '86 - so I see this program forcing lower income people looking for the mid 90's car into the older stuff that is left after this program.

To hear of a restored '41 truck or a tri-power Catalina going to the crusher whole makes me sick. Absolutely the stupider things I have heard. How much do you hate cars if you do that sort of thing in a steel yard?

Edited July 29, 2009 by toesuf94

[Intrepidation]

Smoke and mirrors though. If you look and learn, the incentives 2 months ago were far better.....like 2, 3 grand better on some vehicles. Now GM for example has less incentives, as they are letting the govt make up the difference and then some.

Here's the thing though, the CFC doesn't replace the incentives, it's in additions to them. So if there's 2k off the sticker of the car you are looking at, and you get $4500 for the clunker, you just got $6,500 off.

[Intrepidation]

I see a few problems with this bill: Mostly the wanton wasting of working automobiles. Sure, some POS cars are off the streets, but a fair many of them are not - like the Roadmaster wagon mentioned before. If that car was an LT1 car, then it BARELY meets the MPG cut off. Further, We the People are paying for this program and the benefits will probably NEVER be seen. Yeah, the dealers will sell some more cars - but the price of scrap should drop heavily due to the flood of steel suddenly on the market. Further - there is no return to the program - why not sell the cars to insurance pools and at least recoup some of the money. Brand them destruction only so they never hit the street in one piece again - at least the parts of value would not be wasted.

The other problem I see is the 1986 cutoff. Now the people who could buy the 1995 Roadmaster with the LT1 cannot - they are now too expensive at $4500 - so they maybe buy what is left: an '86 Cutlass Cruiser. Now, we all will probably agree that the Roady would get better mileage and would be less of a polluter than the '86 - so I see this program forcing lower income people looking for the mid 90's car into the older stuff that is left after this program.

To hear of a restored '41 truck or a tri-power Catalina going to the crusher whole makes me sick. Absolutely the stupider things I have heard. How much do you hate cars if you do that sort of thing in a steel yard?

I really don't think people are going to drag a fully restored classic to the dealer for $4500 it if it's restored they probably did it or bought it because it is, and plus it would sell for way more on the market. notgonnahappen.com

My biggest problem with it, is that the program doesn't encourage people to buy domestic.

[SAmadei]

well, to go from a 15mpg vehicle into a 40 mpg vehicle kind of illustrates what can be done with it.

Not really. The amount of energy used to create a new vehicle will offset any mileage gains unless you drive nonstop around the clock.

[fightingbee]

My biggest problem with it, is that the program doesn't encourage people to buy domestic.

Yeah, the dealers advertising it the loudest around here are Kia, Toyo, and Nissan.

One Toyota dealer is sending postcards to those whose vehicles "qualify", so they must have even bought owner info. just like those shady extended warranty peddlers do.

Edited July 29, 2009 by fightingbee

[Justin Bimmer]

Yeah, the dealers advertising it the loudest around here are Kia, Toyo, and Nissan.

One Toyota dealer is sending postcards to those whose vehicles "qualify", so they must have even bought owner info. just like those shady extended warranty peddlers do.

You know they are tired of renting space at the ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles where they are storing all their cars!

[CaddyXLR-V]

What I don't get is why these vehicles are having the engines destroyed, then crushing the vehicle. What about all the other people who drive a poorly maintained 70s or 80s car and can't afford to buy a new car even with $4500 cash from trade in, which pollutes probably 10 times more than some of these vehicles being crushed? Some of the engines being destroyed from these trade ins might be better than the ones that are staying on the road. Why aren't these engines allowed to go to junk yards?

[XP715]

I work for a foreign car dealership and just went to survey the cash for clunkers pile on my lunch break. 18 of the 24 vehicles are domestic, most of which are rotted out Jeeps, no big deal, but there's also a '93 Sedan DeVille with 99K on it that looks like it left the showroom yesterday (charcoal gray with a burgundy interior, no padded top, very sharp) and a '96 C1500 regular cab shortbed fleetside FIVE SPEED with 120K in beautiful shape I'd buy right now. But instead they'll be trucked to our off-site lot, ran with an additive in the engines until they seize, and be turned into steel pancakes.

And for the foreign car/autocross nerds out there, one of the six foreign cars of the bunch is an early 90's five-speed RX7 convertible, which goes to show that some neat foreign stuff will die at the hands of retards too.

Edited July 29, 2009 by XP715

[A Horse With No Name]

Sorry to hear that both interesting domestic and imported stuff is going to die.

Like the Dark Blue Suburban I saw in the dead line today, XP 715.

Thought of you when I saw that one.

Also saw a 40,000 mile ford Conversion van, several nice trucks, including a really nice regular cab Dodge 4x4.

But the amazing thing to me was the number of Jeeps. The OP talked about a Wrangler IIRC. One was on the front page of the Columbus dispatch in an article about the program. Another lot had a Grand Cherokee with under 50k that looked amazing.

And the Ford dealer on the way home had, oddly enough...4 Cherokees (three grand Cherokee's and one of the old style) all green. And a green Durango to boot.

Also seen, an older Toyota Land Cruiser and a early 90's FWD Cutty Convertible. Not sure if the cutty was eligible for the progam but it was there in line.

Chris

[GMTruckGuy74]

I need to start cruising through some of my local dealerships soon and see what's on the back lots.

[A Horse With No Name]

Oh, and the Hyundai dealers around here have cashed in the most.

Bunches of domestics, like 25-30 a dealership.

And sadly, at the Chryco dealer I stopped at they were just getting ready to kill 20+ cars, including that really nice Grand Cherokee.

Chris

[Z-06]

As usual a bill with lot of potential that ended up being a dud and heartbreak.

[A Horse With No Name]

Oh, and XP-I saw the most amazingly clean Sedan Deville in the clunker line today. Silver with grey leather. Amazingly nice car...new tires even still had the little nubs on them.

Shame to crush that.

Chris

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

This is so sad. It was reading this thread. When you think of some of the cars being destroyed, it puts things in perspective. It seems people who love cars are becoming an endangered species.

You cannot get brochures any longer from dealers or online.

Cars that suited your needs do not really exist anymore.

Most cars are mid-sized and look and drive like each other.

What has happened to the love affair with the car?

Everything coming is small or compact and is not roomy. I guess this is the price paid for progress...

This is the list of cars that qualify and do not qualify:

http://jalopnik.com/5324978/full-list-of-d...lunkers-refresh

Edited July 29, 2009 by NINETY EIGHT REGENCY

[balthazar]

My '94 F-150 RC/LB 2WD 300 I-6 was rated at 14/18, with a combined 15MPG. I bought it new and it currently has 146K on it. It's in really great shape physically, except the fenders over the rear wheels are starting to bubble heavily fom the backside. Interior is excellent. I really like this truck, I love the RC/LB proportions, too, and it's been a great truck. Only one of 20 vehicles I've ever bought new.

I have not driven it 1000 miles in the last year, however.

All that said : KBB says it's trade-in is $513. O'bamament says $4500.

Hm-mmm....

And while someone may have crushed a '41 Chevy... it wasn't for the CFC - too old. Same for any Catalina.

Edited July 29, 2009 by balthazar

[A Horse With No Name]

My '94 F-150 RC/LB 2WD 300 I-6 was rated at 14/18, with a combined 15MPG. I bought it new and it currently has 146K on it. It's in really great shape physically, except the fenders over the rear wheels are starting to bubble heavily fom the backside. Interior is excellent. I really like this truck, I love the RC/LB proportions, too, and it's been a great truck. Only one of 20 vehicles I've ever bought new. I have not driven it 1000 miles in the last year, however. All that said : KBB says it's trade-in is $513. O'bamament says $4500. Hm-mmm.... And while someone may have crushed a '41 Chevy... it wasn't for the CFC - too old. Same for any Catalina.

I was refering to the previous program in California that Unocal 76 had. That was the program HOT ROD bought their first gen "crusher Camaro" from.

If you want to get depressed, read the back pages of old issues of Hemmings Motor News.

That being said...sorry to see your F150 go.

Chris

[XP715]

Just checked the pile again (we close at 9) and a beautiful triple navy blue '88 Cutlass Supreme has shown up. The last of the RWD G-body Oldsmobiles. Next week it has its engine seized and gets shredded for no practical reason. Awesome.

[A Horse With No Name]

I'm sure the people who traded it in will be happy with their crapbox Sonota.

What else came in of interest?

Chris

[XP715]

Not my cup of tea, but a champagne colored '96ish DeVille showed up in beautiful shape. The Cutlass is still the one that burns me the most though.

[A Horse With No Name]

Wow. That's a crying shame...

Plese tell me you went back out and looked at the Cutttty and it's actually a rustbucket...

Chris

[regfootball]

What year is your Aztec? I replaced a bunch of transmissions back in 2005 because there was a recall where the gears weren't heat treated properly.

04? you think something is amok?

[regfootball]

Here's the thing though, the CFC doesn't replace the incentives, it's in additions to them. So if there's 2k off the sticker of the car you are looking at, and you get $4500 for the clunker, you just got $6,500 off.

yeah but its not as you say.

leave the clunker out of it.

if said car could be bought MSRP for 18, and 2 months ago it was sold at 13,500....but now the same car is 15,500........it means they are holding prices higher. whether you have a clunker is immaterial. then it just means the clunker is a come on to generate showroom traffic..the govt is assisting in padding profits.

[Blake Noble]

Hearing about the '88 Cutty has my blood boiling ...

Edited July 30, 2009 by YellowJacket894

[GMTruckGuy74]

Just checked the pile again (we close at 9) and a beautiful triple navy blue '88 Cutlass Supreme has shown up. The last of the RWD G-body Oldsmobiles. Next week it has its engine seized and gets shredded for no practical reason. Awesome.

Please, please, please tell me you're working on a plan that will let you sneak this car off the dealership's lot and into the garage of a C&G member somewhere in this country!!