What about global engines?

[Northstar]

I've been thinking about GM becoming more global and whatnot, and how platforms will now be engineered for use around the world as well as other vehicle componets. But, what about engines? Are the HV V6s used anywhere other than North America? Wouldn't it be easier (and save costs) to produce millions of HF V6s globally and use them in everything that needs a V6? I'm not starting this thread to necessarily put down the HV V6s, but the HF V6s are clearly better and it seems the only reason for GM not putting them in more cars is cost. If they were produced in huge numbers, wouldn't it bring the cost down significantly and bring the price-per-unit down to near HV V6 levels? If GM is truly becoming global, why not globalize engines too?

[PurdueGuy]

Seems like a good idea, but there would certainly have to be changes in different parts of the world. Since the US has among the most stringent pollution controls in the world, they'd probably need to trade off cleanliness for fuel economy in other parts of the world.

[regfootball]

oh God, pushrod vs OHC again. OHC can be tuned for torque and emissions. the pushrod uses a few fewer parts and can be more compact sometimes. Historically the proof is there that at least for 4 cyl and v6 engines that OHC designs have better running characteristics all around. which would expose why pushrod engines have been popular to GM. Cost, saving money, and probably production, union, supplier contracts they cannot flex around. northstar, i agree. but i think the 5.3 FWD v8 is a great idea and maybe the 3.9 has potential. Aside from that and the corvette/CTSv type cars, GM should make the global hf engines typical.

[pow]

The HF V6s are the only six-cylinder petrol engines used in GM products (and Alfas) outside of North America. Wasn't there a HF V6 plant in Australia?

[skepticman]

GM's New 3.6L V-6 VVT To Debut In 2004 Cadillac CTS (Note the "premium and high-performance" part).

"Created to fulfill GM's strategy calling for sophisticated V-6 engines for global application in premium and high-performance vehicles, the all-new 3.6L V-6 VVT engine will make its debut in the 2004 Cadillac CTS."

Holden Reveals Advanced, All-New Alloytec V6 Engine

"Holden has revealed details of the advanced Global V6 engine that will provide the high-tech heartbeat for future generations of its Australian-built vehicles."

[Northstar]

GM's strategy calling for sophisticated V-6 engines for global application in premium and high-performance vehicles

So apparantly GM only wants to put HF V6s in premium vehicles?

[pow]

So apparantly GM only wants to put HF V6s in premium vehicles?

[post="55530"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well, the Vectra and Commodore aren't really that "premium"... I can't see why they aren't on Malibus and G6s.

[skepticman]

Notice the cars that have the high feature engines (pasted from GM Media Online, Product Information Guide, Powertrain page). Buick Rendezvous Buick LaCrosse / Allure Cadillac CTS Cadillac SRX (base) Cadillac STS (base) Nothing from Chevy or Pontiac. Probably because GM would have to increase the prices to make the same profit as the 3.5L or 3.9L OHV engines. I could maybe see using the HF engines in Chevy SS or Pontiac GXP models instead of the V-8. I think the 3.6L engine is going to be available on the Saturn AURA, so apparently GM considers new Saturns to be premium.

[Northstar]

Nothing from Chevy or Pontiac. Probably because GM would have to increase the prices to make the same profit as the 3.5L or 3.9L OHV engines. I could maybe see using the HF engines in Chevy SS or Pontiac GXP models instead of the V-8.

Well, if we look at the price issue and consider that the price-per-unit goes down with each engine made, wouldn't the price have to be pretty similar to the HV V6s if they produced millions of the HF V6s a year?

If GM put the HF V6s in the following cars it would be producing millions of them just in North America:

(Everything that it is already in)
Malibu
G6
Impala
Monte Carlo
Lucerne
Lacrosse (standard)
Grand Prix
CSVs
Equinox
Torrent
VUE (instead of the Honda V6) -- How can GM afford to buy a similar-to-HFV6 engine from Honda but can't afford to make some themselves?

That doesn't even count any Holdens, Opels, Vauxhall's, etc., from other parts of the world.

[thegriffon]

a.) The older-generation HV V6s are being built and used in China (in different capacities). b.) The 3800 plant being closed is being replaced by another plant for the HF V6s. (yeah, as some people have implied the plant closures are a little bit smoke and mirrors in some cases since new plants had been announced earlier and others will be re-opened with new product after a short hiatus). Edited December 9, 2005 by thegriffon

[skepticman]

Another quote from the GM Media site below. (Note the word "economical"). GM has decided to have separate families of HF and HV engines for some reason, most likely cost. If you want a definitive answer on why, you could try contacting someone at GM Powertrain. "The 3500 3.5L V-6 is part of a new family of sophisticated overhead valve 60-degree V-6 engines that are economical to produce but also incorporate technologies like variable valve timing to generate very competitive specific horsepower and torque outputs."

[ehaase]

The HF V-6's get relatively poor fuel economy. Both the 2.8 and 3.6 get 17 or 18 in the city (while Toyota's 3.5 is getting 22 in the city), while the 3.5 OHV is getting 20 to 22 in the city. The 3.9 HV also gets relatively poor fuel economy, around 18 or 19 in the city. Unless GM can get better fuel economy out of the HF V-6's, I can see keeping the 3.5 HV, especially for lower end Impalas and Malibus for CAFE purposes. I don't see the point of either the 2.8 HF or 3.9 HV. I'd drop the 2.8 from the CTS and make the 3.6 standard. I'd replace the 3.9 HV with the 3.6 HF across the board.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

GMs HF engines get poor gas mileage cause they are geared for speed not fuel economy,