Processor Question

[Z-06]

Is there a significant different between Intel Xeon 55-- series processors and 54-- processors having almost same frequency?

I was looking for dual quadcore system as my workstation at home and was wondering will the speed difference be significant enough to pay the higher price for the 55-- processors.

5570 Nelahem

5450 Harpertown

[FAPTurbo]

The new CPU is Intel's latest and greatest, the 'Core i7'. It's an advanced architecture, but you pay for it in motherboard costs, and the use of triple-channel DDR3 RAM.

The expensive option will outperform the cheaper one because it's capable of carrying out more processes. The cheaper one is also a 'dead-end' in some people's minds because it uses DDR2 RAM which is being replaced by DDR3.

Core i7 processors are supposed to really shine if they're used in multi-GPU solutions, which may be part of your workstation.

While I can't really help too much, you can gain a bit of an idea with some benchmarks:

http://www.techspot.com/review/124-intel-c...i7-920-940-965/

The processors shown are consumer models, but I don't think the Xeon's have too much difference. For example, the expensive CPU you've shown will be more or less equal to the '940' and the cheaper one will be similar to the '9650.'

[capriceman]

wow.. why do you need xeon's? plan on virtualizing servers?

the 55 nehalm hyperthreads 4 cores meaning it can handle 8 threads at once almost acting as a 8 core cpu. and if your virtualizing servers it can handle 15 of them off of one chip. also xeons allow for cross connecting dual cpus so if you have a mobo that supports 2 of them it load shares and them you can virtualize 31 servers. It is 1366 the latest and greatest.

the 54 is older and doesnt hyper thread. its proven though.

Im wondering what are you doing on this computer because that is a hell of a lot of number cruching power. Cause a normal 920 i7 will tackle anything you ever could throw at it and its $199 at microcenter.

[Z-06]

Good question.

I am not planning to virtualize at this point, but eventually I will. My immediate needs are two:

1. 64 bits AutoCAD/ Civil 3D, which a single CPU can handle.

2. Chess!! That kills it. I wanted to use the processing power for game analysis. With new programs coming with multiprocessor capability, more the merrier. I have seen quite a difference when the programs use two instead of one processor.

[capriceman]

Good question.

I am not planning to virtualize at this point, but eventually I will. My immediate needs are two:

1. 64 bits AutoCAD/ Civil 3D, which a single CPU can handle.

2. Chess!! That kills it. I wanted to use the processing power for game analysis. With new programs coming with multiprocessor capability, more the merrier. I have seen quite a difference when the programs use two instead of one processor.

Well its your money so i wont spend it for you but dual quad cores are way more than you can ever need. Especially enterprise class stuff which is just overpriced consumer stuff since there is no different instruction sets. I dont know if cad can use it yet but adobe photoshop is able to use Nvida graphic cards (8 series and up I recommend GTX 285) to do parallel processing (supercomputerish) they call it Cuda. it makes rendering 1000% faster!

seriously look into

X58 motherboards

intel I7's 920 is the best value and a good zalman or sunbeam core contact heatsink and fan stock one blows.

12gb's of ddr3 which can be easily had for less than $200

GTX series video cards gtx 275 best value / performance

Velociraptor hard drives they are fast!! and cheaper than SSD's SSD are fast when empty once they are filled they are slow as hell thats why i like fast mechanical drives be damned if they fail though. I use Server class SAS drives but veloci's are just as fast.

get a good psu like a 800+ watt antec or a PC power cooling or silverstone or Corsair or themaltake.

This will be around 1000 - 1500 but good and damn fast. more than you could ever need plus it has room to virtualize a comfortable 4 OS's.

Im sorry to the AMD fans but at current gen stuff Intel has them beat for raw power. but AMD has some nice Opterons out if you want to go amd i think they have a 6 core out now

[Z-06]

Well its your money so i wont spend it for you but dual quad cores are way more than you can ever need. Especially enterprise class stuff which is just overpriced consumer stuff since there is no different instruction sets. I dont know if cad can use it yet but adobe photoshop is able to use Nvida graphic cards (8 series and up I recommend GTX 285) to do parallel processing (supercomputerish) they call it Cuda. it makes rendering 1000% faster!

seriously look into

X58 motherboards

intel I7's 920 is the best value and a good zalman or sunbeam core contact heatsink and fan stock one blows.

12gb's of ddr3 which can be easily had for less than $200

GTX series video cards gtx 275 best value / performance

Velociraptor hard drives they are fast!! and cheaper than SSD's SSD are fast when empty once they are filled they are slow as hell thats why i like fast mechanical drives be damned if they fail though. I use Server class SAS drives but veloci's are just as fast.

get a good psu like a 800+ watt antec or a PC power cooling or silverstone or Corsair or themaltake.

This will be around 1000 - 1500 but good and damn fast. more than you could ever need plus it has room to virtualize a comfortable 4 OS's.

Im sorry to the AMD fans but at current gen stuff Intel has them beat for raw power. but AMD has some nice Opterons out if you want to go amd i think they have a 6 core out now

Rendering in Civil 3D totally uses GPU power than a CPU power. But if you are modeling and creating 3D surfaces, the calculations involve CPU power and mega memory. Like I said I think a single quad core with 8GB DDR3 can handle 3-4 drawings opened at once.

But my main concern is chess games analyses. The software that analyze these games use something called Tablebases, which help the computer chess programs such as Shredder or Fritz analyse multiple scenarios. While they do not use much memory (1 GB at most) the programs need to go through the Tablebases only with raw power of the processors. Typically a grandmaster has a rack workstation with quad processor capability, while I am not a grandmaster, I think single CPU will not cut those computations. Faster HDD helps only to access the Tablebase thread, once the program catches the thread it is raw computing from that point on. I hope I explained my situation. I will not build it, I will possibly go the Dell route, which is almost the same price for the system including warranty.

[capriceman]

wow.. thats pretty insane. i thought you were joking about a chess game or something. like i do about minesweeper. yeah sign up for dell small biz email alerts sometimes they email nice 10-15% off stuff. I know they dual nehalm 1U servers that are kickass.

[Z-06]

Cappy, the main thing I have heard about Core I7 used for consumer applications is the inability to communicate on a multi processor platform. While Core I7 and Nelahem are based on the exact architecture, multi-processor capability exists only in the Xeon siblings. If the core I7's are indeed multi-processor capable, then I can see your point and get myself to build me a system. Till then, I have no choice but to get the Xeons. Is it also true that Xeons because of better heat dissipation capabilities have better overclocking capability than the consumer siblings?

I totally understand the enterprise editions are bitchily expensive because of one reason - the cost of business not failing because of a faulty system - a blackmail the tech companies use. The same is the case between Quadro FX cards and their consumer siblings, the Quadros are expensive as hel compared to GTXesl. I love the idea of Velo Raptors, they are solid stuff. I want SAS too, but I think I will hold my horses there, since, harddrive speed is not ultra critical for me.

[capriceman]

well Of course Xeons have a better chance to Overclock becasue they are taken off the better part of the waffer like the parts where there are no defects are either turned into Xeons by addeding multi cpu instruction sets or highend "extreme Series" cpu. http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/from-sa...s-made-2009079/ intresting read if you have the time it's not detailed but cool to see how they make them. (its where i got the wafer diagram) however they make the same heat and use the same wattage although do to the higher quality they have higher Delta temps. so they have a higher tollerence to extreme temps into the 80-90ºC range. although if you buy a dell you cant Overclock it. but like you said warranty and quailty may be a win.

[Z-06]

This is amazing stuff. I never knew how the processors were created. Those are some grueling details and precisions. Thanks for the info.

As with the overclocking, I am not going to go that route, considering the calculations will require extended periods of full CPU usage, I do not want to bust the computer up too soon. I was just wanting to confirm what I read and heard.

But you did not answer my question of existence multiprocessor capability of consumer Core I7.

[FAPTurbo]

But you did not answer my question of existence multiprocessor capability of consumer Core I7.

As far as I know, it doesn't exist. You'll need to use Xeon's.

For example:

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,677813/...kets-1366/News/

Although the board is running with unbuffered memory server processors are required for the dual-CPU mode.

[Z-06]

As far as I know, it doesn't exist. You'll need to use Xeon's.

For example:

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,677813/...kets-1366/News/

That seriously sucks. I guess there is not enough market for those and if they created a processor, Intel would lose the hoards of enterprise profits.

I have had great experience with Xeons since my school time, I will be happy to own one despite being expensive.

[capriceman]

yes only Xeon class processors have multi cpu capability although there was a consumer class socket 771 that had multi cpu ablity.

[FAPTurbo]

That seriously sucks. I guess there is not enough market for those and if they created a processor, Intel would lose the hoards of enterprise profits.

I don't think it was so much losing enterprise profits as it was their previous foray into consumer-level dual socket boards was a disaster more-or-less. They had a special 'Skulltrail' board which used two Socket-771 CPU's, and the result was a hot-running, and inefficient product that tanked, and is essentially a punchline nowadays.

Edited July 31, 2009 by TheCaptain

[Z-06]

I don't think it was so much losing enterprise profits as it was their previous foray into consumer-level dual socket boards was a disaster more-or-less. They had a special 'Skulltrail' board which used two Socket-771 CPU's, and the result was a hot-running, and inefficient product that tanked, and is essentially a punchline nowadays.

They could have easily created workstation-lite motherboard to overcome the problem. Socket-771 was a project to test waters, and Intel put half hearted efforts into it enough to bomb it. It was something GM would do in heydays, make a half assed project and then cut it before giving proper opportunity. Weren't Skulltrails expensive and resource hogs?

[Z-06]

Here are the computers that played the 2009 World Computer Chess Championship in Pamplona, Spain. Insane:

Linkity

Rank	Program	Country	Hardware	Score	Games	Title
1	Rybka	flag USA	Intel Xeon W5580 @ 3.2GHz x 8	8.0	9	World Computer Chess Champion
2	Deep Sjeng	flag BEL	AMD 3.2Ghz x 4 (r1-7), Intel X5560 @ 2.8Ghz x 8 (r8-9)	6.5	9	
2	Junior	flag ISR	Intel Xeon W5580 @ 3.2GHz x 8	6.5	9	
2	Shredder	flag DEU	Intel Xeon W5580 @ 3.2GHz x 8	6.5	9	
5	Hiarcs	flag GBR	Intel Xeon W5580 @ 3.2GHz x 8	6.0	9	
6	Jonny	flag DEU		4.5	9	
7	The Baron	flag NLD	AMD Opteron 270 @ 2.0Ghz x 4	3.0	9	
8	Equinox	flag ITA	8x Intel® Xeon® CPU X5355 2.66GHz	2.0	9	
9	Pandix 2009	flag HUN		1.5	9	
10	Joker	flag NLD	2.33GHz Core 2 Quad	0.5	9	

[capriceman]

http://www.cray.com/Home.aspx

[Z-06]

<Speechless>

That is pushing my needs cappy. It is like taking a Nuclear bomb for a knife fight.

[capriceman]

Overkill is nothing to be ashamed of. Im using an I7 and sli gtx 275 for minesweeper.

[capriceman]

What if its an 8?