RWD Cadillac Flagship Back On Track, Plus Two New Buicks Approved

[black02]

AWD doesn't help cornering, it adds weight, which hurts cornering.

Actually, a well-engineered AWD system will corner faster than a well-engineered RWD system. AWD lets you get maximum traction usage from all four wheels, so even though it's heavier, it'll be quicker.

If AWD were an option in F1, everyone would have it. The reason it's not there is that it's outlawed.

I still like RWD better, because I want more from a street car than just taking every corner at maximum speed.

[Z-06]

GM to enter motorcycle business.

Fritz Henderson believes GM will make world class super-sport bikes, cruisers and touring motorcycles while delivering world class fuel economy. Motorcycles will be introduced using two brands. There won't be any rebadging. First motorcycle to be expected in 2012 and plans for Voltech in a liter class bike is already on drawing board.

[hyperv6]

I just love all the over reaction and drama on this web site anymore. With only 2% of the info know with the 1% of it that will change after the hold that many think will mean the end to the platform that never was canceled.

Again this is a case lets let them get us a little more info to work with. GM is early on some of these programs and they are looking and dealing with alot of things right now.

Bob Lutz will do well with the cards he is delt. Just look at the fact he already has the CTS V coupe on line for release and has come out to say the new Buick ads suck! Wait till fall and we will see a lot more of where GM is headed.

Lutz wins more and get more right than anyone at GM has for years. We all just need to give him a little time to do his magic.

[hyperv6]

GM to enter motorcycle business.

Fritz Henderson believes GM will make world class super-sport bikes, cruisers and touring motorcycles while delivering world class fuel economy. Motorcycles will be introduced using two brands. There won't be any rebadging. First motorcycle to be expected in 2012 and plans for Voltech in a liter class bike is already on drawing board.

Note both will be RWD.

[Z-06]

Note both will be RWD.

According to "some inside sources" GM will introduce FWD motorcycles to meet the CAFE requirements.

[Lamar]

According to "some inside sources" GM will introduce FWD motorcycles to meet the CAFE requirements.

:rotflmao:

[Robert Hall]

GM to enter motorcycle business.

Fritz Henderson believes GM will make world class super-sport bikes, cruisers and touring motorcycles while delivering world class fuel economy. Motorcycles will be introduced using two brands. There won't be any rebadging. First motorcycle to be expected in 2012 and plans for Voltech in a liter class bike is already on drawing board.

Hmmm... 2 brands. Maybe they will brand the sport bikes 'Pontiac' and the cruisers/touring bikes 'Oldsmobile'. And use W-body parts, and the bikes will all weigh 1000lbs each.

[black02]

GM to enter motorcycle business.

Fritz Henderson believes GM will make world class super-sport bikes, cruisers and touring motorcycles while delivering world class fuel economy. Motorcycles will be introduced using two brands. There won't be any rebadging. First motorcycle to be expected in 2012 and plans for Voltech in a liter class bike is already on drawing board.

Couldn't hold that one 'til April 1st, eh?

[A Horse With No Name]

I think I'm pretty much done with GM for a while. I'm so sick of "this is off, this is on, this is gone, this is back, this is going, this is not going anymore". No one knows what the hell they're doing anymore.

+1

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Hmmm... 2 brands. Maybe they will brand the sport bikes 'Pontiac' and the cruisers/touring bikes 'Oldsmobile'. And use W-body parts, and the bikes will all weigh 1000lbs each.

At the rate we are going, the 2019 Corvette will be based on a W body platform, and built in a quonset hut in Flint by Scout troup 439 as part of their "Eagle Project"

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Next week, GM will be sourcing engines from Honda for the new FWD Cadillac flagship!

Right now someone in the Renncenter is surfing CarDomain.Com to see if someone has put an Accord motor in a W body Impala.

Chris

[67impss]

At the rate we are going, the 2019 Corvette will be based on a W body platform, and built in a quonset hut in Flint by Scout troup 439 as part of their "Eagle Project"

Chris

Nah AmeriCorp

[A Horse With No Name]

Bob Lutz will do well with the cards he is delt. Just look at the fact he already has the CTS V coupe on line for release and has come out to say the new Buick ads suck! Wait till fall and we will see a lot more of where GM is headed. Lutz wins more and get more right than anyone at GM has for years. We all just need to give him a little time to do his magic.

This is true, and in 4 or 5 years I expect GM to be much stronger. However, right now making fun at their expense is about like fishing with dynamite.

Chris

[hyperv6]

This is true, and in 4 or 5 years I expect GM to be much stronger. However, right now making fun at their expense is about like fishing with dynamite.

Chris

Like I have state let this settle out and then get mad once you have some concrete plans from GM you hate. At this point no one here really knows much of what product we will see as much of it has yet to be settled.

Come Sept comes and they don't have any solid plans you like then slit a wrist.

Lets see what Uncle Bob has cooked up and where he takes this bus. With money and better marketing I think many will be suprised with some of the thing we may see from GM and Bob. Too many here think every car has to be a GTO or Camaro. That would be great but welcome to reality.

[Camino LS6]

It would be nice to see less junk and a few decent RWD cars.

They haven't even been able to manage that.

Not every car needs to be a FWD econobox.

It works both ways.

[Cmicasa the Great]

I think they should build both the XTS and the new SLS STS DTS whatever they want to call it. I think there is a market for both. I know people say the XTS is directly competetive with buick but back in the 90s Cadillac has an SLS and an STS with different options and touring suspension vs more traditional suspension.

Heck, even in 1985, we had a choice of standard or "touring suspension" or the Seville. Ours had a nice "touring suspension" badge on the trunk.

Precisely... I don't kno where the mixed messages came from. The XTS was always being considered as an ES350 competitor to bridge the gap between the ALPHA based Caddy 3series fighter and the CTS. I don't have issue with that at all... because looking at BMW's line-up ALONE gives me a headache. WTF is the "5series GT" for when I already have nightmares about running into the gruesome X6 in dark alleys.

[Cmicasa the Great]

+1

Chris

Says the guy who either has or dreams about Mustangs. I don't think U were a shoe-in for a GM car in the first place

[Cmicasa the Great]

Next week, GM will be sourcing engines from Honda for the new FWD Cadillac flagship!

WHY??? When every comparable engine GM makes is as powerful or more.. and certainly as efficient.

[Intrepidation]

Says the guy who either has or dreams about Mustangs. I don't think U were a shoe-in for a GM car in the first place

Don't jump to conclusions.

WHY??? When every comparable engine GM makes is as powerful or more.. and certainly as efficient.

I was being sarcastic. However, it wouldn't be the first time GM sourced Honda for an engine.

[smk4565]

RWD is best for handling. Caterham, Lotus, Ferrari, Corvette, Viper, race cars, etc are all rear wheel. The AMG and M cars are rear drive, not awd.

The on again, off again stuff is annoying, and shows GM (mainly Cadillac) doesn't know what direction they are going in. They already make a stretched CTS, and it doesn't sell. Adding length to the sales dud STS isn't going solve anything. And I don't think the S-class is built on a stretched 2003 E-class platform. They can't build an S-class competitor form the GM parts bin, the engine, chassis, suspension, transmission all have to be developed from scratch. They should focus on a 3-series size car instead.

The Delta Buick picture on Autoblog shares all body panels with the Cruze so it looks like a straight rebadge. A delta Buick is a good idea, rebadging the Cruze is not. LaCrosse should dump the base model and start at $30k and be the top end Buick, kill the Lucerne already. 3 sedans is plenty.

[Intrepidation]

I think most of GM management couldn't find their asses with both arms and a road map.

[cire]

I think I'm pretty much done with GM for a while. I'm so sick of "this is off, this is on, this is gone, this is back, this is going, this is not going anymore". No one knows what the hell they're doing anymore.

RIGHT ON!

All the rumor mongering hasn't helped either. This bit of "news" originated with Motor Trend, which happens to be the poster child for unreliable, irresponsible reporting.

[A Horse With No Name]

Says the guy who either has or dreams about Mustangs. I don't think U were a shoe-in for a GM car in the first place

About 60% of what I have owned has been GM, including two trucks, two vans, Two Cutlases, Two Chevelles, Two-Tri5 Chevy's, A Cavalier and a Skylark, etc.

With all of these cars coming in two's we should worry about a biblical flood before we should worry about a Ford....And I hardly think owning one vintage Mustang in my life has hurt GM in the least.

Seriously, I wanted a Solstice so badly it made me weep and now that is gone, at least as a new car proposition. Methinks my next GM vehicle will be a 1950's Chevy or GMC truck. I've always wanted an old truck.

My next new car puchase will probably be a MINI Cooper S. While I am a huge GM fan, I love everything from British cars to brass era classics.

FWIW my real love right now though is SCCA racing and autocrossing, a place where the Solstice is strong. If you get real bored check out the national winners in Solo/autocross and Showroom Stock racing...you'll see I have a real reason to love the Solstice.

Chris

[cire]

critical! is the buick compact a rebadged cruze, or is it the astra?

I believe the Buick will be a rebadged Astra. The media seems to get a kick out of trying to turn this future Buick product into the second coming of the Cimarron. The compact Buick sedan in all the spy shots is clearly a next generation Astra sedan. There are a lot more similarities between the spy shot sedan and the Astra 5-door than there is between the spy shot car and the Chevrolet Cruze. If the media would take the time to closely inspect the pictures of the spy shot sedan, they would reallize this fact.

[A Horse With No Name]

RWD is best for handling. Caterham, Lotus, Ferrari, Corvette, Viper, race cars, etc are all rear wheel. The AMG and M cars are rear drive, not awd. The on again, off again stuff is annoying, and shows GM (mainly Cadillac) doesn't know what direction they are going in. They already make a stretched CTS, and it doesn't sell. Adding length to the sales dud STS isn't going solve anything. And I don't think the S-class is built on a stretched 2003 E-class platform. They can't build an S-class competitor form the GM parts bin, the engine, chassis, suspension, transmission all have to be developed from scratch. They should focus on a 3-series size car instead. The Delta Buick picture on Autoblog shares all body panels with the Cruze so it looks like a straight rebadge. A delta Buick is a good idea, rebadging the Cruze is not. LaCrosse should dump the base model and start at $30k and be the top end Buick, kill the Lucerne already. 3 sedans is plenty.

RWD is great, however great handling cars don't have to be RWD. Honda Prelude and Cobalt SS SC or Cobalt SS/TC would come to mind, both of which are great handling FWD cars.

VERY few people will ever race, track day or autocross their cars, and a good FWD package ought to do for 95% of the population.

That being said, my daily driver is RWD.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I believe the Buick will be a rebadged Astra. The media seems to get a kick out of trying to turn this future Buick product into the second coming of the Cimarron. The compact Buick sedan in all the spy shots is clearly a next generation Astra sedan. There are a lot more similarities between the spy shot sedan and the Astra 5-door than there is between the spy shot car and the Chevrolet Cruze. If the media would take the time to closely inspect the pictures of the spy shot sedan, they would reallize this fact.

Packaged and marketed correctly, a Buick (Astra) should sell well and be a great car. A little more power and a little better interior trim out would have made the previous Astra a MINI fighter, IMHO. (everyone here will disagree with me, but I loved the prev. Astra. Next one should be much better.)

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

RIGHT ON! All the rumor mongering hasn't helped either. This bit of "news" originated with Motor Trend, which happens to be the poster child for unreliable, irresponsible reporting.

Road and Track and Grassroots Motorsports are about the only domestic car mags I read, the rest is pretty much trash writing IMHO.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I think most of GM management couldn't find their asses with both arms and a road map.

Setting their asses on fire and providing a guided tour wouldn't help either.

Chris

[Z-06]

Couldn't hold that one 'til April 1st, eh?

Well if you look at GM's PR and news everyday is April 1st.

[A Horse With No Name]

...or Friday the 13th.

Chris

[ehaase]

I don't believe a word of this rumor. Cadillac's lineup 3 years from now will be the CTS, Epsilon II XTS, SRX, probably a Lambda Escalade, and hopefully an Alpha (but I wouldn't be surprised if that is 5 or 6 years away). After last week's Caprice debacle, I'm not believing any of this - even if Bob Lutz announces it.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Don't jump to conclusions.

I was being sarcastic. However, it wouldn't be the first time GM sourced Honda for an engine.

So lets talk about the times Honda sourced WHOLE VEHICLES from a GM subsidiary. The Trooper and Rodeo thank U for remembering when they were called "SLX and Passport"

[Intrepidation]

So lets talk about the times Honda sourced WHOLE VEHICLES from a GM subsidiary. The Trooper and Rodeo thank U for remembering when they were called "SLX and Passport"

Yeah what utter heaps they were.

[A Horse With No Name]

...and my father owned a Passport, bought it new. Most miserable piece of $h! he ever owned as a vehicle.

THANK YOU GM AND HONDA!

My father is now a very loyal Toyota customer thanks to this vehicle.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Yeah what utter heaps they were.

+1 to the 1 millionth power!

Chris

[Cmicasa the Great]

Yeah what utter heaps they were.

That's what they get for trusting in the Japanese car makers. Honda shouldn't even trust themselves Japanese cars are so covered in BullSh*T perception it isn;t even funny.

[A Horse With No Name]

I think I just read a post from cmicasa that got deleted about what should happen to my father because he drives a Toyota.

Hmmm....my wife chose a Toyota product also. Let me guess...you only believe in the free market and freedom of choice if someone chooses GM, right?

FWIW my father works on the red cross blood drives, helps with special olympics, is in volved with Civitan, works to raise money for college scholarships for worthy teenage high school students...and drives a Toyota. Yet somehow he is less worthy as a human being because he drives a Toyota. Got it.

Chris

[Intrepidation]

No more personal attacks.

[A Horse With No Name]

That's what they get for trusting in the Japanese car makers. Honda shouldn't even trust themselves Japanese cars are so covered in BullSh*T perception it isn;t even funny.

The Japanese have built some brilliant cars (NSX, 240Z, Miata, MR2, Supra, et al) The Americans have built some brilliant cars (GTO, Camaro, Mustang, Impala, Et al) and the Europeans have built some brilliant cars (BMW M3, GTI, Audi TT, et al).

Get over it.

And I have a good friend who is a Honda engeneer. Honda has done some brilliant things. As well as some dip$h! things, as the styling of the Acura lineup will relate to...

Cheers

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

No more personal attacks.

+1. Cheers and Gears is a place where we all love GM. We don't love only GM, but we all love GM and wish the best for it.

For GM to prosper, it must have free market competition. We also celebrate what the competition gets right, because we are sane, rational individuals.

We celbrate our diversity of opinion here, and welcome all voices that are rational and thoughtful.

That is the Cheers and Gears I love.

Chris

[Northstar]

Over/under on this being down by Fritz within 72 hours?

Why are they giving Buick a Cruze? It should be a totally unique vehicle if they are doing it at all. It sounds like it has a different nose and slightly different interior.

[Intrepidation]

Over/under on this being down by Fritz within 72 hours?

Why are they giving Buick a Cruze? It should be a totally unique vehicle if they are doing it at all. It sounds like it has a different nose and slightly different interior.

In the grand GM fashion! But Fritz doesn't like rebadges I thought...

[A Horse With No Name]

For some unknown reason, I have faith that GM will get the next small cars as right as they got the Malibu, Corvette C6, CTS, Camaro, G8, Solstice, Sky, et al.

With the Ford Focus coming from Europe and Fiat helping Chrysler we may very well ahve some very good small cars in 3 or 4 years.

Guys...this shake up in the auto industry has been coming since the early 1970's. I am suprised our domestics have done as well with it as they have. It is going to take until 2013 or 2014 for the new product to come out.

REALITY CHECK-go to your nearest Chevrolet dealer, sit in a new Camaro, and think...this car took 5 years to get here and it was worth the wait.

Let's have a little faith in GM. I get discouraged, and make some pot shots on these forums...but lets have a little faith.

Chris

[Blake Noble]

Don't invest too much in the rear-drive Caddy becoming a reality at the moment, is all I'm going to say ... :AH-HA_wink:

Sorry... but I can't subscribe to that way of thinking.

Chug-a-lug-lug on that GM Koolaid. I bet you thought that the Caprice was actually going to happen too, huh? :rotflmao:

I warn you, you are going to be disappointed. Keep your mind open and take the rumors you hear about future GM products with a grain of salt. Don't invest too much hope in what you hear. I used to be a bigger GM fan than you were, then I started to wake up to the ugly reality that surrounds GM like stink on $h!.

Edited July 21, 2009 by YellowJacket894

[smk4565]

In the grand GM fashion! But Fritz doesn't like rebadges I thought...

Fritz says that, yet GMC exists. The Buick Cruze looks like a total badge job, because that is how GM thinks. They think a badge job and some marketing will fool the public or capture buyers, yet they have been proven wrong over and over.

I like the idea of a Delta Buick if it has it's own sheetmetal and interior, it should be as different from the Cruze as the LaCrosse is from the Malibu. A DI ecotec and an optional turbo 4 would be good.

We should do the over/under on whether or not Fritz still has his job on January 1st. I think he'll survive 2009, but not 2010.

Edited July 21, 2009 by smk4565

[daves87rs]

I think most of GM management couldn't find their asses with both arms and a road map.

+1

That's going for quote of the year.....

[regfootball]

I believe the Buick will be a rebadged Astra. The media seems to get a kick out of trying to turn this future Buick product into the second coming of the Cimarron. The compact Buick sedan in all the spy shots is clearly a next generation Astra sedan. There are a lot more similarities between the spy shot sedan and the Astra 5-door than there is between the spy shot car and the Chevrolet Cruze. If the media would take the time to closely inspect the pictures of the spy shot sedan, they would reallize this fact.

the astra has the front quarter windows. that should be the truest giveaway.

to me, the cruze will be = kia forte. nice enough car. but a throwaway. and in no way should a buick be a throwaway.

[daves87rs]

Over/under on this being down by Fritz within 72 hours?

Why are they giving Buick a Cruze? It should be a totally unique vehicle if they are doing it at all. It sounds like it has a different nose and slightly different interior.

It's going to happen-and it's called CAFE. That's why.

Any other questions?

[daves87rs]

For some unknown reason, I have faith that GM will get the next small cars as right as they got the Malibu, Corvette C6, CTS, Camaro, G8, Solstice, Sky, et al.

With the Ford Focus coming from Europe and Fiat helping Chrysler we may very well ahve some very good small cars in 3 or 4 years.

Guys...this shake up in the auto industry has been coming since the early 1970's. I am suprised our domestics have done as well with it as they have. It is going to take until 2013 or 2014 for the new product to come out.

REALITY CHECK-go to your nearest Chevrolet dealer, sit in a new Camaro, and think...this car took 5 years to get here and it was worth the wait.

Let's have a little faith in GM. I get discouraged, and make some pot shots on these forums...but lets have a little faith.

Chris

[daves87rs]

Well if you look at GM's PR and news everyday is April 1st.

Isn't that the truth...