GM Full-Size Van Conversions

[HarleyEarl]

Back to the '70s: GM hot on custom vans Now that SUVs are getting less popular, maybe we'll all love vans again. November 11, 2005: 10:53 AM EST By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNN/Money staff writer NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Remember when vans were cool? No, not minivans. Those were never cool. I mean custom vans. You know, wheel-to-wheel carpeting. Wood trim. Lots of stereo speakers. If you're old enough, you remember some other things that were cool around that time, too. Disco music. "Keep on truckin'" T-shirts. Big hair. Well get ready, because the folks at General Motors are betting that we might be ready for a bit of a comeback. Not the hair, this time. Just the vans. GM is investing a fair amount of time, money and effort in a bid to convince Americans that custom vans are, indeed, still cool (though this time they're to be called "conversion vans.") The real killer blow to custom vans was one GM dealt largely to itself: SUVs. While we were all turning onto SUVs and dropping out of vans, we just forgot all they have to offer. But large SUVs are now declining in popularity. Meanwhile, one major competitor in the market, Dodge, has stopped making its Ram vans. That leaves just GM and Ford making the bare-bones "plumber's vans" that are the elemental core of custom vans. So, given that vans are extremely profitable, GM got together a group of 23 van "upfitters," the small companies that do the work of making a van a "conversion van," and formed the "Conversion Van Marketing Association." The 23 upfitters do the conversion work and GM sells the basic vans and does marketing for them. The resultant custom vans are sold, as always, at GM dealers. So far, with all the marketing support and a significant reduction in competition, conversion sales have not gone up. But they have at least stopped declining, which GM sees as a good thing. The market for conversion vans, under the best of circumstances, is not huge. GM expects to sell half of the 23,000 to 24,000 custom vans sold in 2005. What for? To understand why anyone would buy a conversion van, you have to understand that most custom van shoppers are considering the purchase as an alternative to an SUV. They want a truck, but one with lots of room inside. If you compare a custom to a minivan for day-to-day use, even the most ardent fan of big vans -- that would be Ross Hendrix , GM's marketing director for commercial truck and van fleet sales -- will admit that a custom van comes up short. The big conversion van drives, as you might expect, like a big van. GM pitches the custom van as a "living room on wheels," and, if you can imagine driving your living room, that pretty much sums up the experience. Inside, the seats are big and comfy, but they don't fold flat like they do in minivans, making for a little less versatility of use. The thirst for fuel is super-sized, too. The rather small-ish van I was given to test drive got about 14 miles per gallon in the city and 18 on the highway. And that was prior to all the additions. Conversion vans offer a lot of the same benefits as a big SUV -- serious towing capacity and 40 percent of those sold have four-wheel-drive -- but with more room inside for leg-stretching and for hooking up entertainment systems that rival what many people have in their homes. And the downsides -- fuel consumption and driving dynamics -- are the same ones you'd have to deal with in a big SUV but they may be actually be a little bit worse. "They're in the same price class," said Hendrix, "but a little less utilitarian, a little more luxury driven." Custom vans tend to be weekend vehicles or taken on vacation trips, he said. So, when Friday comes some people drive sports cars, others drive sports bars. Since they are custom, after all, prices can vary a lot, but the average buyer spends about $65,000 Hendrix said. At those prices, the cost of gas isn't a big issue for buyers. When I got into a GMC custom van recently for a few days of driving, I have to admit I was a bit baffled by its appeal. The custom Savana van I had cost about $53,000 total. For that I got to stand up straight thanks to an extra-tall roof and I got two separate stereo systems and captain's chairs and a sofa-like bench seat in the very back for passengers. If I'd wanted to sleep in it, a set of switches in the back folded the rear sofa seat flat. It wasn't until the last night I had the van that I finally understood its appeal, though. During dinner, my young son begged to go outside to watch a video in the van. So we did. I grabbed a DVD of "Dora the Explorer" and the key to the "fancy van." We didn't go anywhere. We just sat on the big sofa in the back and watched Dora and Boots and their friend the talking backpack. I can't tell you how irritating I find Dora and that talking backpack, but my son was about as happy as I've ever seen him. Finally, it made some kind of sense. That's not something I would ever have done in a minivan. But this was a room. It was like a rolling addition to our home. We could have been watching the Jets pre-game show in the Meadowlands parking lot. I'm still not sure if potential custom van buyers will be continue to be unswayed by the poor fuel economy of these vehicles, though. But compared to a mobile home, a mobile room might just be a bargain

[regfootball]

i find dora and boots as annoying as hell too. but i have to admit. i did recently consider a chevy express AWD van as a possibility. in some cases its cheaper than a minivan. if GM refined vans to handle and drive better and have nicer interiors I think conversion vans could spark renewed interest.

[daves87rs]

Our family had an 86 Chevy Custom Van...and I have to say I miss that van. Especially after the 350 was dropped in. :AH-HA_wink: :wub: :chevy: Though gas milage sucked..... If I could afford one, i really would consider one. They need to be priced lower...so normal people can afford them. 50 grand just doesn't cut it. 35 and lower...much better.... People that can afford a Lexus are not going to buy a van... I've seen a few interesting ideas around here though...

[Sixty8panther]

The AWD vans from GM are so much superior to any of their would be competition that it's like they have their very own niche and nothign else even compares. The Econoline makes the Crown Victoria look like a fresh and cutig edge vehicle by comparison. Take a look at an Econoline on a lift, more 1966 than 2006.

[Flybrian]

Crown Vic, Econoline, Ranger...Ford has a thing for hoping retro comes back.

Anyway, remember all the hoopla over 15-passenger vans having inherent stability problems? Remember all the Ford and a few Dodges they always showed? Remember all the GM vans they showed? Like...none? And remember how despite that fact, GM still equipped their vans with Stabilitrak?

WTG, Ford!

[thegriffon]

I still don't understand why people buy the Econoline over the GM vans. It's old, it looks duff, it has horrible engines, worse mileage etc. And you can now get the Duramax in a GM van. Guess they must be giving them away. The new Sprinter should have an impact.

[corvettekidc6]

I think that they should bring back the astro and make another HHR like conversion. Make it look like a Scion Xb with a long car like hood and call it the astro. They probably shoud have done this before the HHR. Maybe Pontiac would like something like that.

[rkmdogs]

I think that they should bring back the astro and make another HHR like conversion. Make it look like a Scion Xb with a long car like hood and call it the astro. They probably shoud have done this before the HHR. Maybe Pontiac would like something like that.

[post="51725"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Dumping the Astro was a typical GM dumb move!
I have had 7 vans in my life so far. A '73Dodge 1T, '78Dodge3/4T maxi,'86Dodge
1TLWB,'88Astro,'95AstroAWD,2001Explorer15pass-1T,and currently a 2000Astro AWD.

I have been out car shopping for the past 4 weeks. There is nothing out there that
compares to the functionality of the Astro. Does it have shortcomings? Definitely
YES! But compared to what is currently out there, I'll keep my Astro and do an
engine swap when necessary!
The HHR came the closest to matching functionality of the interior, and the
Dodge Grand Caravan came in 2nd.

If they had gotten smart earlier and added the street-side door to the Astro,
extended its' nose, like the Venture, swapped in the 4200 I-6, and kept the
RWD, and offered foldable seats----- nothing out there could touch it!

Are you listening GM???????

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Crown Vic, Econoline, Ranger...Ford has a thing for hoping retro comes back.

Anyway, remember all the hoopla over 15-passenger vans having inherent stability problems? Remember all the Ford and a few Dodges they always showed? Remember all the GM vans they showed? Like...none? And remember how despite that fact, GM still equipped their vans with Stabilitrak?

WTG, Ford!

[post="51660"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yes, when GM introduced extended vans around 1991-92, they actually bothered to EXTEND THEIR WHEELBASES!!!!! Remember, Dodge (and still Ford) extend their length to the rear-I question their safety. The GM vans since their 1996 redesign and 2003 facelift, though they aren't differentiated at all, have drab cloth and vinyl interiors (I know they're mostly work vans, but in the deluxe trim level? Come on!), they are still better than any Econoline ever was or will be (at least right now) and are just as good as Dodge's quirky, but increasingly popular Sprinter. What else I would do if I were GM is extend the wheelbase more, particularly toward the front, so the front door opening was a full, wide opening, and so the engine compartment would be moved fully out of the way of the apssenger compartment. I would also lower the body height to the ground, probably for better stability. I don't know the first thing about engineering, but it just makes sense to me. And ditch that 4300 V-6 and make the 4800 V-8 standard-there is no purpose of it being there, and while the Econoline is lousy and dated, it was still a smart move when Ford made the 4.6-liter V-8 standard on the E-150 series.

[regfootball]

power sliding doors on an express would be a huge draw. imagine all the limo conversion possibilities if GM offered a van with cadillac/lexus level trim. the ultimate casino road trip / bachelor party cruisers. hell, strippers and p0rn without having to leave the comforts of the van? the express could also be the ultimate rolling home theater. sprinter gets great mpg i hear. Edited December 2, 2005 by regfootball

[daves87rs]

Dumping the Astro was a typical GM dumb move!
I have had 7 vans in my life so far. A '73Dodge 1T, '78Dodge3/4T maxi,'86Dodge
1TLWB,'88Astro,'95AstroAWD,2001Explorer15pass-1T,and currently a 2000Astro AWD.

I have been out car shopping for the past 4 weeks. There is nothing out there that
compares to the functionality of the Astro. Does it have shortcomings? Definitely
YES! But compared to what is currently out there, I'll keep my Astro and do an
engine swap when necessary!
The HHR came the closest to matching functionality of the interior, and the
Dodge Grand Caravan came in 2nd.

If they had gotten smart earlier and added the street-side door to the Astro,
extended its' nose, like the Venture, swapped in the 4200 I-6, and kept the
RWD, and offered foldable seats----- nothing out there could touch it!

Are you listening GM???????

[post="51729"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

My mom isn't sure what she is going to do with her Astro.

She was thinking maybe Uplander..but I'm now trying to talk her out of it.
Those vans are major P.O.S....I'd thought they would be a bit better...but from
what I'm hearing, but not much if at all... :(

I told her to wait until the L vans/suvs/ smallish wagons roll out in the next few years...those might be worth it...

[RBB]

These things can actually be blinged out quite nicely - the Savana/Express vans looks great with dubs:







The interiors can be very nice, too, although you have to put up with the old-school GM plastics and panel gaps. Some conversion companies put nice interiors and electronics, some look like 70's limos with Audivox stereos and speakers.

Behlmann GMC always rents a ton of space at the St. Louis Auto Show and displays several conversion vans. I remember being quite impressed with this years' offerings. $50+K is a lot of cheddar, though...

-RBB

[HarleyEarl]

Thanks for the photos!.....they have these looking very good. I'm impressed.

[nyscene911]

I love the explorer vans. If it ever got to the point where I needed one of them(enough kids), I would definately pick one up. My family had one that they only got rid of like 2 years ago. The interior of them is kick ass, my family's was loaded with leather and a power rear seat and wood everwhere. Very nice.