Chevrolet 'Camaro/Chevelle' Prototype

[91z4me]

91z4me did you see Scotts post on names on cz28?

He gave a statment that "if one is to say Z everyone knows it is a Camaro but if you say SS it could be anything."

He followed it up with a "The SS did go away for a few years but did return later."

The final line was wanting to know if he was driving us crazy yet.

I have been thinking on this and wonder if this means the cars standard performance version will be a Z28 with a higher model later of a SS?

Or does it mean the new car may be call a Z28 and not a Camaro? I have never seen the name Z28 was off limits.

I also think that if a Chevelle is made it will be a 4 door.  Back in the day half or more Chevells were 4 doors  and with todays market Chevy could use a 4 door sedan that size.  We also know GM may have made mistakes but those working on the Camaro would never make it a 4 door. Unless it was like the Saturn hidden doors.

I don't know what cars built where but these would replace the W cars and that is their best plant. The are reported gone in 08 so what would they build in the great white norh in 09?

More clues only make more questions!

[post="51090"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The general consensus on CZ28 is that the Z/28 will be a Z06 type of top model and will come 18 months after production starts on the regular cars.

[ocnblu]

I'd be happy with the cheapest V8 model, but it's gotta have nice rims.

[ehaase]

I could be wrong about all this but I think I have put the crumbs together pretty well.

[post="50871"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

This is a lot of speculation about cars that are at least three years away. I seriously doubt that even GM has yet finalized its RWD plans. We didn't know many details about the 2005 Mustang before 2003. We knew very little about Chrysler's LX cars before 2002 or 2003. I don't think that we will know details about these cars until sometime in 2007. The fellows on the Camaro Z28 board are interesting, but I prefer to wait until the insiders here post something (if they don't stop posting, because I know that some of them are getting weary of some of the posters).

[BIGPhil]

Just to start thanx 91z4me. That was some great info that you gave. I think that moving the Malibu to the Impala's platform or to replace the Impala with the Malibu would be a good way to make room for a RWD "Impala"(being that they are now close in size) BUT...... The competition all offer a 4cyl in that size class, as a value leader. GM can move the platfroms/names around only if they can stay competitive at this point with a V-6 (just beacuse I REALLY don't see a 4cyl "Malpala" being able to move out of its own way) In response to what hyperv6 said about the hidden Saturn doors on a "Camaro", I hope not. Understanding that it definately would make acess easier but I think they should make it closer to a 2+2 like the GTO. Another question is if they build one of the platforms at Willmington, DE, where would they build the Sol-Sky. I don't really know that much about the plant capacities at all. I 'm just wondering if you think they might move that production somewhere else?

[91z4me]

Just to start thanx 91z4me. That was some great info that you gave.

I think that moving the Malibu to the Impala's platform or to replace the Impala with the Malibu would be a good way to make room for a RWD "Impala"(being that they are now close in size) BUT...... The competition all offer a 4cyl in that size class, as a value leader. GM can move the platfroms/names around only if they can stay competitive at this point with a V-6 (just beacuse I REALLY don't see a 4cyl "Malpala" being able to move out of its own way)

In response to what hyperv6 said about the hidden Saturn doors on a "Camaro", I hope not. Understanding that it definately would make acess easier but I think they should make it closer to a 2+2 like the GTO.

Another question is if they build one of the platforms at Willmington, DE, where would they build the Sol-Sky. I don't really know that much about the plant capacities at all. I 'm just wondering if you think they might move that production somewhere else?

[post="51128"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Phil you are right about details not being known BUT GM has finalized its plans through 2009 by now. That means its RWD plans are buttoned down and will be here before you know it, car year 2009 is calendar year 2008, only 2 years away.

Malibu is all but confirmed by GM to get bigger. Epsilon II will be capable of larger cars and Malibu will be one of them. The 2.2 and 2.4 Ecotec can move the current Epsilons perfectly fine, should it get DI by 2008 along with the mild hybrid system it will get out of its own way with no problem, don't forget the next Malibu will have the 6 speed auto. The W-body is dead the question is what will happen to Impala. I personally can see another nameplate, Chevelle or Monte Carlo being used on the Sigma lite sedan. I also could see a larger RWD/AWD sedan bearing the Impala name coming later with the current car living till like 2010 or so. IF GM decides to move Impala to RWD the Malibu will have to be able to appeal to a larger portion of the population and cover a larger market.

[BIGPhil]

Good info again 91z4me. Thanks again.

[ehaase]

Phil you are right about details not being known BUT GM has finalized its plans through 2009 by now.  That means its RWD plans are buttoned down and will be here before you know it, car year 2009 is calendar year 2008, only 2 years away.

Malibu is all but confirmed by GM to get bigger.  Epsilon II will be capable of larger cars and Malibu will be one of them.  The 2.2 and 2.4 Ecotec can move the current Epsilons perfectly fine, should it get DI by 2008 along with the mild hybrid system it will get out of its own way with no problem, don't forget the next Malibu will have the 6 speed auto.  The W-body is dead the question is what will happen to Impala.  I personally can see another nameplate, Chevelle or Monte Carlo being used on the Sigma lite sedan.  I also could see a larger RWD/AWD sedan bearing the Impala name coming later with the current car living till like 2010 or so.  IF GM decides to move Impala to RWD the Malibu will have to be able to appeal to a larger portion of the population and cover a larger market.

[post="51146"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Although you are certainly correct about the Epsilon II Malibu, most of your posts are just guessing. No reliable source has confirmed that any of these RWD cars will be out for the 2009 model year. (GuionM is interesting, but is not at the level of AH-HA, Evok, Thegriffon, Hudson, or Hogans_Heroes.) GM already has a full plate for 2009 - the TE platform crossovers, the Epsilon II LaCrosse, Lambda minivans, possible sub-Thetas. No one has said that the Ecotec will get Direct Injection by 2008. GM just finalized its 2008 model year plans. While your theories makes sense and hopefully will be true, most of us here should not be presenting ourselves as authorities on future cars. Edited December 1, 2005 by ehaase

[91z4me]

Although you are certainly correct about the Epsilon II Malibu, most of your posts are just guessing.  No reliable source has confirmed that any of these RWD cars will be out for the 2009 model year.  (GuionM is interesting, but is not at the level of AH-HA, Evok, Thegriffon, or Hogans_Heroes.) GM already has a full plate for 2009 - the TE platform crossovers, the Epsilon II LaCrosse, Lambda minivans, possible sub-Thetas.  No one has said that the Ecotec will get Direct Injection by 2008.  GM just finalized its 2008 model year plans.  While your theories makes sense and hopefully will be true, most of us here should not be presenting ourselves as authorities on future cars.

[post="51170"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Essentially EVERYTHING that you just posted as GM having on their plate is speculatin because GM didn't announce it. BTW Nobody will confirm if what I have said is true because to do so would put them under the eye of the General and might expose some of their sources. All the things I posted are speculatory at the moment, that doesn't mean they don't fit the puzzle.

BTW Guy has said previously where he gets a lot of his info and there is good reason why he is rarely wrong, he doesn't post something until he hears it from multiple sources.

[Chicagoland]

Most likely GM will rush a Chevy 2+2 coupe to answer to th Mustang. And some were not around in the good old days to know that not all old Chevelles were muscle machines, those were the SS's. Most were average Joe/Jane cars with vinyl tops and 2 barrel carbs. In fact some people called them Malibus. So much so, that the '78 Mid-size car was re-named Malibu. Edited December 1, 2005 by Chicagoland

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

OK to bring some info over from CZ28, where I spend most of my time.

Simga is a Zeta, VE is a Zeta, Sigma lite is a derivitive of a Zeta.

Zeta is a build and design process that allows multiple versions of the same architecture to be built on the same line in similar manners, for instance CTS, STS, SRX are all on Sigma BUT they are different vehicles, the current V-car would fall into the same category also.

Holden is the homeroom for RWD so all new RWD programs, excluding trucks and Corvette will be mostly engineered by them.  Holden is using VE, as SimonDavid said it is an updated and improved V-car unibody with Sigma suspension, though I am hearing an advanced strut arrangement similar to the newer BMW system is used up front.  This is a lower cost platform to Sigma.

Problem with VE in the states is that the build process is different than the US uses and would have cost a lot of money to change VE to build it into the states.  Though Guy McCoy said he has heard VE may actually come to the states afterall for Buick and Pontiac, more on this in a second.

Sigma is high cost because of somewhat extensive use of aluminum, and because Caddy pretty much bore the burden to develop it and now doesn't want to share. 

Sigma lite is being referred to as the 'RWD Chevy platform' presumably because it bore most of the expense to design and engineer the chassis.  Sigma lite or it may be called Zeta lite or something totally different uses Sigma unibody components with a strut front, Mark Ruess thanks for spilling that, along with the Ve (steel intesive IRS).  Sigma lite was probably being worked on as far back as 00 all the way till 2002 or 2003.  Then it took a nap while GMNA thought about using VE for its US cars.

GMNA decides converting a US plant to make VE the way Holden makes it would be to expensive, about a year after that we hear that Zeta is cancelled.  All hell breaks loose but some people say don't worry wait till the smoke clears and then look at what you have.

So what we have is 3 different RWD platforms all are Zeta's and ALL meet US safety standards all interchange at least part of the rear suspension and ALL can share engines.

What we will see is Sigma staying with Caddy, DUH, VE being a Holden and possibly US built chassis with Buick getting a large sedan, Pontiac a midsize sedan and coupe (GTO), and Sigma lite being the basis for a Chevy sport sedan and sport coupe (Camaro).  There also lies the possibility for a Chevy Large RWD sedan based on VE.

I hope some of the confusion is cleared, GMI won't listen when people lay it out for them I hope you guys do listen.

Also I think that a Chevelle sedan makes Mucho sense and that is something I can see happening unless the Impala is the RWD sedan to launch around 09.

[post="50669"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

VERY GOOD POST!

Confirms a lot of what we've heard over the past 2-3 years. And it's a very exciting future! Now GM just needs to get it on the road. Chevelle and Camaro; how bad ass is that!

[Hudson]

• Wasn't there another thread that said it would be a stretched Kappa?  Not that it really matters to me, but I just want to get the facts (if any) straight.
  
  
  
• I thought all the legal issues with the Camaro name have been resolved or no longer exist.

1. From my information, these new models (two body styles...most likely coupe and convertible) will be based on Kappa.

2. I think there was a time-frame issue...and that hasn't passed yet.

[91z4me]

1. From my information, these new models (two body styles...most likely coupe and convertible) will be based on Kappa.

2. I think there was a time-frame issue...and that hasn't passed yet.

[post="51218"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hudson when you say models do you mean concepts or produciton cars?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

i'd guess the next gen Malibu inherits the Maxx extended wheelbase and grows a bit in size to get closer to the FWD Impala, and then the Impala goes RWD in '09

that gives Chevy a pretty well rounded line-up

That makes perfect sense, logically and the timeframe lines up well too.

[turbo200]

1. From my information, these new models (two body styles...most likely coupe and convertible) will be based on Kappa.

2. I think there was a time-frame issue...and that hasn't passed yet.

[post="51218"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

WHOA.

1. Kappa for concept or for production? I think Fbodfather already said not Kappa once, but he could have been referring to production only. 2 body styles? I'm just wondering if this is for concept or production again. Either way, it's nice to hear, thanks for that bit of info.

2. Isn't the time frame issue done as of Jan 1, 2006, allowing GM to go ahead and show it at NAIAS?

[AAS]

2. Isn't the time frame issue done as of Jan 1, 2006, allowing GM to go ahead and show it at NAIAS?

[post="51247"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

right... I thought that time had passed...

[hyperv6]

right... I thought that time had passed...

[post="51256"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I have been told by a reliable person that the Name would be clear in 2006 but was not given a date.

I did assume if the concept was shown in Jan the release date negotiated may be Jan 1st.

The original agreement was 2017 plus different case if this or that took place. I assume it could and has been negotiated out. This is not like dealing on a 60% pay cut here.

We will know on Jan 8th byt the name it carries.

Scott did note last Feb the Z28 would be the top line car and the SS would be lower but by his latest post on CZ28 it makes one think Z28 has gone back to the regular place as performance car and a SS wouls return later. I know he said in Feb it was not final in anyway at that point.

One thought could they call it a Z28 and not a Camaro? He made the statment that when you say Z28 everyone thinks Camaro you say SS it could be any line car at Chevy. He also noted the SS went away but came back later??? Edited December 1, 2005 by hyperv6

[V6powerr]

Watch Toyota and Honda get stereotyped as being boring and bland cars. You can drive them without a manual, Ha! GM is coming back to its roots with a mission!:)

[ehaase]

Watch Toyota and Honda get stereotyped as being boring and bland cars. You can drive them without a manual, Ha! GM is coming back to its roots with a mission!:)

[post="51350"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Most of us at C&G got worked up into a state of ecstasy two or three years ago by the prospect of RWD V8 powered cars that GM was supposed to introduce for the 2007 model year. Remember when we were told that there would be a new RWD Impala, Camaro, Grand Prix, GTO, LaCrosse, and premium Buick sedan for 2007? Some people virtually cursed me for being skeptical (because I knew that GM had new W and G body cars coming out 2004 to 2006 and would not be replacing these cars so quickly).

I am not going to get excited about 2009 RWD cars until GM announces them. At this time, they are nothing more than proposals.

[turbo200]

feel free not to rain on our parade, ehaase :P respectfully, we only get excited because these are kinds of cars we MOST want to see at GM. If they finally listen to the customer, thier fortunes might change. As it stands there are little to no cars from GM that I would take over cars from other companies, if the right Camaro, with the right quality, design, and performance came out, then I'd buy one, simple as that

[hyperv6]

Most of us at C&G got worked up into a state of ecstasy two or three years ago by the prospect of RWD V8 powered cars that GM was supposed to introduce for the 2007 model year.  Remember when we were told that there would be a new RWD Impala, Camaro, Grand Prix, GTO, LaCrosse, and premium Buick sedan for 2007?  Some people virtually cursed me for being skeptical (because I knew that GM had new W and G body cars coming out 2004 to 2006 and would not be replacing these cars so quickly).

I am not going to get excited about 2009 RWD cars until GM announces them.  At this time, they are nothing more than proposals.

[post="51356"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The difference you have here is they are showing a concept car when before this was all just paper proposals.

The worse thing GM could do other than not building a RWD car is showing one and not building it. I know every one wants to call GM idiots but not all there are and they would never let this car go to concept for a show with out a intention for production. We are talking Camaro not Nomad here and there are some folks still sore it went away the first time.

If this was some hydrogen kryptonite powered car that will do 0-60 in 1.4 sec and get 75 mpg I might be a little leary. But this is a hot button car and GM would be doing something worse than everything in the last 20 years combind as to show a Camaro show car with no intent to put it on the market.

Besides the guys working on this car know better and would never let it happen as they are wanting this car as much as we do. They are the reason the name has not been slapped on some FWD 6 banger. Would you have wanted a Camaro II to live down like Ford still is. This car is in good hands!

The only thing that could hurt here is the finacial problems, but clearer heads are prevailing and letting the new product flow. Edited December 2, 2005 by hyperv6

[Northstar]

Question: The Epsilon II is the midsized platform that is capable of supporting front, rear or all wheel drive right?

Also, wasn't there talk about no concepts being at NAIAS? That would mean the special group is seeing a production car right?

[post="51450"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The info about Epsilon II be F/R/AWD was just a bad rumor, it wasn't true. As for the concepts, it appears GM changed it's mind and we'll have some :D

[hyperv6]

Also, wasn't there talk about no concepts being at NAIAS? That would mean the special group is seeing a production car right?

[post="51450"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

There have been some that have denied that the Concept car was going to be shown back on Sept 4 when I posted what I knew was good info. I had first heard about it back in August but just needed to here it from a second place. But to be fair this has been a low profile project for many reasons we will learn later, lets face it they have only refered to this as "the Car" internally.

The car being shown is a Concept and will be called nothing more at this point. I suspect from as long as this has been in the works the car will be closer to production than many want to believe. I have been told by they same places that the car has been worked on to some degree at various levels for near 2 years.
This is not a quick throw together Solstice type show car deal.

I have not been told this but I have a feeling what we will see will be in the 80% give or take range of a production car. I have not heard a business case being approved but if they want to make their point the more production like car is the better to make their case to produce it.

This showing is important toward getting the car produced and they have to get everything right. GM needs this car and the folks behind it want it as bad as we all do on this web site.

Scott S. is a great car guy and a very good Chevy/ GM historian and know what the score is on this. I think we will all be greatful to him for his efforts once this is done. It has been too long since Chevy had a outspoken car guy outside the Corvette group. I think the next few years GM performance will rise higher than it ever did in the 60's. The new Solstice and Z06 is just a example of what to expect out of a GM car. Edited December 2, 2005 by hyperv6

[ehaase]

Unless the production coupe is on Kappa (as Hudson has said several times, and he has proven to be very accurate over the 4 or 5 years that I have been reading his posts at various places) and can be built at Wilmington, I do not see the Camaro coming out before 2010. Most of you just want to talk about Camaro, Camaro, Camaro, but the fact is that most of the cars to built off Zeta will be sedans. These sedans will replace the Impala, Lucerne, and DTS that were just introduced. I do not see a Zeta or Sigma lite Camaro coming out before any of these sedans are ready to replaced because I do not see the Camaro being built at its own plant.

[Chazman]

Unless the production coupe is on Kappa (as Hudson has said several times, and he has proven to be very accurate over the 4 or 5 years that I have been reading his posts at various places) and can be built at Wilmington, I do not see the Camaro coming out before 2010. 

Yeah, I'd like to hear more from Hudson about that. I find him to be typically well informed, but my sources tell me that Camaro and Kappa DO NOT have a future together.

As far as Wilmington goes, who's to say that it will build only Kappas.

[Chicagoland]

Most of us at C&G got worked up into a state of ecstasy two or three years ago by the prospect of RWD V8 powered cars that GM was supposed to introduce for the 2007 model year.  Remember when we were told that there would be a new RWD Impala, Camaro, Grand Prix, GTO, LaCrosse, and premium Buick sedan for 2007?  Some people virtually cursed me for being skeptical (because I knew that GM had new W and G body cars coming out 2004 to 2006 and would not be replacing these cars so quickly).

I am not going to get excited about 2009 RWD cars until GM announces them.  At this time, they are nothing more than proposals.

[post="51356"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I totally agree. Some even claimed there would be a 2005 Camaro. I posted some thoughts about disbelief and was flamed big time. Don't know where people got the idea that the could whip up a whole new RWD car line, and re-tool a plant in just two years time.

Chrysler has officially announced the return of th Challenger. Where is the official announcement from GM? No, a post on the net saying "I swear..." with no pics, docs, or sources doesn't count.

[Hudson]

Hudson when you say models do you mean concepts or produciton cars?

My contacts rarely know anything about concepts...this is all production based.

[Hudson]

WHOA.

1. Kappa for concept or for production? I think Fbodfather already said not Kappa once, but he could have been referring to production only. 2 body styles? I'm just wondering if this is for concept or production again. Either way, it's nice to hear, thanks for that bit of info.

2. Isn't the time frame issue done as of Jan 1, 2006, allowing GM to go ahead and show it at NAIAS?

See above. I'm not talking about concepts.

[turbo200]

very interesting. Camaro on kappa...hmmmm......we've been told by so many that to change the structure of kappa would be too expensive...well more for the fire, i guess thanks for the info

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Scott did note last Feb the Z28 would be the top line car and the SS would be lower but by his latest post on CZ28 it makes one think Z28 has gone back to the regular place as performance car and a SS wouls return later. I know he said in Feb it was not final in anyway at that point.

I dunno.... It seems too logical to align the Z/28 as the top car (Right Chazman :AH-HA_wink:) along with the Z06 AND it's original intentions as a race ready Camaro. This is especially true with the watering down of SS.

So, I'd like to propose a relatively simple THEORY. What if the Camaro launch and proposal is like the Cobalt. As in, the base model and top performance model (Camaro and Z/28) are shown first and promoted first to be followed by a more affordable mid range performance version (SS)

Remember, the Cobalt and SS Supercharged were intro-ed first and produced first then followed by the mid range SS a year later.

[Sixty8panther]

Look people you want to go for Toyota's throat with Chevrolet? Here's how... enough product to cover EVERYONE. Keep the FWD Impala and Malibu for the FWD pansies that feel like RWD is scary or somehow impractical. Then make two different sizes of affordable RWD chassis, here's the breakdown I'd do: Mid size RWD: Camaro for Chevy (also GTO for Pontiac an Invicta for Buick) Full size RWD: Big sedan called Caprice Classic and a large personal luxury coupe called Monte Carlo. This also means a bitchin' Electra 225 for Buick, full size Bonneville for Pontiac and top top it all off dress it up and give it some rea luxury indise and out for a Fleetwood Borugham that can coexist with the smaller FWD Deville (DTS) No more lost sales to Ford (Crown Victoria & Mustang) but you're also still satisfying the FWD grocery getter market and thus taking sales away from Toyota & Honda. It's a WIN/WIN scenario people, if you're developing a whole new floorplan might as well use it!

[Hudson]

The cars I'm talking about enter production in August 2007.

[haypops]

very interesting. Camaro on kappa...hmmmm......we've been told by so many that to change the structure of kappa would be too expensive...well more for the fire, i guess

thanks for the info

[post="51838"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Autoweek recently reported that the camaro would be on an extended Kappa. Sorry I don't have the link. Also I don't pretend to know wheteher they know what they are talking about or not.

[turbo200]

The cars I'm talking about enter production in August 2007.

[post="51844"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The cars you were referring to earlier in this post:

1. From my information, these new models (two body styles...most likely coupe and convertible) will be based on Kappa.

2. I think there was a time-frame issue...and that hasn't passed yet.

was the Camaro. Of that I am almost positive.

Now you are saying they enter production in August 2007. A Camaro coupe and convertible off Kappa in August 2007. I am trying hard not to be too much of an intruder, but I want to hear more.

Anything more off Kappa, around August 2007 is only good news, damn good news. Edited December 2, 2005 by turbo200

[ehaase]

As far as Wilmington goes, who's to say that it will build only Kappas.

[post="51755"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Can Wilmington build cars on more than one platform? I may be wrong, but I think I have read that GM has no plants that currently produce more than one platform. I have read the proposals that Spring Hill and Oshawa may eventually be flexible.

[poly]

Can Wilmington build cars on more than one platform?  I may be wrong, but I think I have read that GM has no plants that currently produce more than one platform.  I have read the proposals that Spring Hill and Oshawa may eventually be flexible.

[post="51881"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

in a word... YES

[Chazman]

Can Wilmington build cars on more than one platform?  I may be wrong, but I think I have read that GM has no plants that currently produce more than one platform.  I have read the proposals that Spring Hill and Oshawa may eventually be flexible.

[post="51881"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I don't know. There has been some loose talk of a second line. But I don't think a final decision has been made, one way or the other. I don't know if GM ever plans on converting it over to C-Flex either.....it's possible.

As far as Kappa - as we know it today - the architecture CANNOT support a back seat in a production car with a real fuel tank. It simply cannot. A real 2+2 production Kappa would have to be essentially, an ALL NEW platform.

I was/am a HUGE fan of the platform that Holden put together for the Torana concept (as a basis for Camaro I thought it perfect), and I lobbied hard for it within GM. And it had some influential fans, believe me, even at the VERY TOP. It also had some enemies however, and combined with the cost of an all new architecture (which it would have been), was enough to make sure it never developed. As far as I know, it's deader than a doorknob now. Pity. Edited December 2, 2005 by Chazman

[turbo200]

so then what production cars is Hudson referrring to, chazman? He says a coupe and convertible based off Kappa.

[91z4me]

I don't know. There has been some loose talk of a second line. But I don't think a final decision has been made, one way or the other. I don't know if GM ever plans on converting it over to C-Flex either.....it's possible.

As far as Kappa - as we know it today - the architecture CANNOT support a back seat in a production car with a real fuel tank.  It simply cannot. A real 2+2 production Kappa would to be essentially an ALL NEW platform.

I was/am a HUGE fan of the platform that Holden put together for the Torana concept (as a basis for Camaro I thought it perfect), and I lobbied hard for it within GM. And it had some influential fans, believe me, even at the VERY TOP. It also had some enemies however, and combined with the cost of an all new architecture (which it would have been),  was enough to make sure it never developed. As far as I know, it's deader than a doorknob now. Pity.

[post="51888"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Ok Charlie let me throw this out. What if you used Sigma unibody parts along with Kappa suspension components? That would yeild a unibody that was already capable of larger cars than Kappa AND it would share parts between 2 already devloped chassis. Could this be Sigma lite afterall?

Hudson thanks for throwing this out there it may be a wrench in the logic I made but it may be an important wrench.

[Chazman]

so then what production cars is Hudson referrring to, chazman? He says a coupe and convertible based off Kappa.

[post="51901"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I don't know, nor will I speak for him. But the current Kappa architecture WILL NOT support anything but a two seater.

[Chazman]

Ok Charlie let me throw this out.  What if you used Sigma unibody parts along with Kappa suspension components?  That would yeild a unibody that was already capable of larger cars than Kappa AND it would share parts between 2 already devloped chassis.  Could this be Sigma lite afterall?

Hudson thanks for throwing this out there it may be a wrench in the logic I made but it may be an important wrench.

[post="51903"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I believe Kappa's suspension components are pretty optimized for a car which weighs no more than Kappa.

[Sixty8panther]

I believe Kappa's suspension components are pretty optimized for a car which weighs no more than Kappa.

[post="51905"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Right, same as I wouldn't want a Miata suspension on a 929 Sedan and vice versa.