Saab Auto Steering Into Black

[Guest Josh]

For what is probably only the second time since General Motors Corp. acquired Saab Automobile, the Swedish brand will be profitable this year, says Jay G. Spenchian, general manager of Saab Cars U.S.A. Inc.

Spenchian also says he has been assured by Fritz Henderson, president-GM Europe, that Saab is an important part of the company, and its product portfolio will be expanded, not terminated, as some reports suggest.

The Saab chief says worldwide sales will total 140,000 units this year, including 42,000 in the U.S. That represents a 12% increase, including fleet sales, over 2004.

Meanwhile, Spenchian says he did not learn about GM's divestiture of its Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. stock until shortly before the news was made public Oct. 5.

The move killed plans for the 7-passenger 9-6X cross/utility vehicle, based on the Subaru B9 Tribeca.

He expresses confidence the brand will market new models in the future, with previews set to begin at the Detroit and Los Angeles auto shows in January.

Full Story: http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_saab_auto...ering/index.htm

[aaaantoine]

That's right! Earn GM some money back.

[Ghost Dog]

2 Concepts this year eh? 9-4x and Mauers 9-2 coupe?

[Imaj]

So we can say that this year GM Europe would be profitable! That's GREAT News..

[jbartley]

::phew:: so i guess the press can't have gm sell, kill, destroy saab as they wish

[balthazar]

Pish-posh; sure they can. Saab is still a deep money loser, long-term. Frankly, it's well past it's peak and I don't see it gaining marketshare. I would prefer if any division/brand action was to take place, saab would be the first target.

[Northstar]

Well, if Saab can make money I suppose it's okay to keep around. However, Saab should be limited to 3 vehicles IMO: Epsilon/Epsilon II 9-3 AWD Sigma Lite 9-5 Then either a Lambda or TE crossover. That's IT. If Saab gets another 9-2x (after the current one is dead), the 9-4x TE, and a 9-6 Lambda crossover and the roadster they were talking about, then that's horseshit. If GM invested the same money in Pontiac and/or Buick and gave them that many vehicles they'd sell A LOT more than Saab and rake in millions rather than the few pennys Saab will make.

[Croc]

I'd rather see Pontiac go than SAAB. It is easier to mould a nonexistent image (SAAB) into a positive one than to try and do the same with a negative image (Pontiac).

[Northstar]

It is easier to mould a nonexistent image (SAAB) into a positive one than to try and do the same with a negative image (Pontiac).

[post="49787"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

That may be, but with more vehicles like the Solstice Pontiac's image will change almost instantly. I don't see anyone not buying a Solstice because it's a Pontiac.

If Saab can make money then I wouldn't cut it, but if they're making relatively little money I see no reason to give them 6 or so low volume products if Pontiac and Buick only get 3 or 4. If the vehicles went to one of the other two brands they would probably sell in much larger volumes and bring in a lot more cash, which is GM's biggest concern right now.

[Ghost Dog]

Pish-posh; sure they can. Saab is still a deep money loser, long-term. Frankly, it's well past it's peak and I don't see it gaining marketshare. I would prefer if any division/brand action was to take place, saab would be the first target.

[post="49757"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Look at the numbers on the GMNA production cuts. - 1 million vehicles! thats not coming from Chevy or Cadillac. GMNA does'nt build Saabs. Take 1 million vehicles away from Buick and Pontiac. What's left? Edited November 29, 2005 by Ghost Dog

[balthazar]

I'd rather see Pontiac go than SAAB.  It is easier to mould a nonexistent image (SAAB) into a positive one than to try and do the same with a negative image (Pontiac).

Bullsh!t. saab has an image- the car of choice for pot-smoking college professors in their 50s. A "quirky" brand that dare not break away from such esoteric trivalties as a key in the console or all 22 worldwide saab loyalists wail & moan. saab can only mean what it's meant for the last 25 years: FWD 4-banger hatchbacks with particularly upright windshields. Sure they have 1 or 2 other models outside that now... and they are verbally trounced by the 'faithful' and one of those's days are numbered.
It's these few "iconic" features that hamstring the development & growth of the brand... the few things that mark what is otherwise a merely somewhat competitive product in a ragingly ferocious segment.

Pontiac has a long history of building performance cars for the enthusiast, moreso than saab by a long shot. Their path has been a bit muddled of recent times, tho the GTO & Sostice (& the G6 in a lesser capacity, IMO) are right back on track. At least Pontiac is not saddled with the albatross of -say- using an Indian Head emblem and 3 2bbl carbs or encuring the rejection of the faithful.

[Croc]

I don't feel SAAB has that image anymore. It isn't on very many peoples' radar at all, and while "quirky" might come to mind, I really don't see the "stoner" image around much today. Pontiac is saddled with a negative trashy image; like it or not that is the reality. Even if SAAB does have the image you purport it to have, quirky and eccentric is more doable than trashy and cheap. SAAB has two things going for it: it is premium, and it is an "import." Again, SAAB at least doesn't have a negative image. Anyway, GME needs SAAB more than GMNA needs it.

[pow]

Meh, people will buy Saabs just because they're not BMWs. It's just that their products aren't up to snuff, substance-wise.

[balthazar]

I have yet to encounter a "negative, trashy, cheap" image associated with Pontiac, so I cannot agree in the least that that is "reality".

And I think the only people who think saab is "premium" are those employed in their marketing department. Their image may not be negative (again- I don't believe Pontiac's is either), but it's not all that great and it's not progressive, and that's at strict odds with the premium segment.

>>"GME needs SAAB more than GMNA needs it"<<

Fine, then pull saab stores from the U.S.. Or sell off saab to a european corporation. It'll never pay off.

[Croc]

SAAB is premium in that it commands a premium price. SAAB makes damn good cars. I think their problem is a lack of marketing. Most consumers don't have SAAB on their radar.

[Flybrian]

SAAB is premium in that it commands a premium price.  SAAB makes damn good cars.  I think their problem is a lack of marketing.  Most consumers don't have SAAB on their radar.

[post="49972"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Marketing, an (until like three years ago) old, old lineup, and laughter-inducing pricing on certain models.

They're getting better, although I'll always be interested to see how SAAB straddles the line between quirky but low-selling and mainstream but unoriginal.

[Clownzilla]

Well, if Saab can make money I suppose it's okay to keep around. However, Saab should be limited to 3 vehicles IMO:

Epsilon/Epsilon II 9-3
AWD Sigma Lite 9-5
Then either a Lambda or TE crossover.

That's IT. If Saab gets another 9-2x (after the current one is dead), the 9-4x TE, and a 9-6 Lambda crossover and the roadster they were talking about, then that's horseshit. If GM invested the same money in Pontiac and/or Buick and gave them that many vehicles they'd sell A LOT more than Saab and rake in millions rather than the few pennys Saab will make.

[post="49780"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Good idea, but I think their linup should be simplified even more.

9-3 AWD
9-3 Conv. AWD
9-5 AWD
9-5 Conv. AWD

Let Opel be the guide for their vehicles, not GMNA (97x) or any other company (92x). I don't care where you build them (Sweden, USA, Germany), as long as it has a Euro-feel. Does SAAB need any type of SUV? Isn't AWD enough? Very few people really need SUV's or AWD, but if a quirky car comes around that offers this "needed"
option I'm sure it would sale. Obviously, Subaru has shown this. SAAB could be the upmarket, European Subaru.

[91z4me]

Well, if Saab can make money I suppose it's okay to keep around. However, Saab should be limited to 3 vehicles IMO:

Epsilon/Epsilon II 9-3
AWD Sigma Lite 9-5
Then either a Lambda or TE crossover.

That's IT. If Saab gets another 9-2x (after the current one is dead), the 9-4x TE, and a 9-6 Lambda crossover and the roadster they were talking about, then that's horseshit. If GM invested the same money in Pontiac and/or Buick and gave them that many vehicles they'd sell A LOT more than Saab and rake in millions rather than the few pennys Saab will make.

[post="49780"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I doubt that SAAB will have a RWD based drivetrain on any further models, 9-7 excluded it was a rebadge and a pretty quick one to boot. The 9-5 will go on EPII long and wide. I think there will be 2 different Epsilons one SWB 9-3 and Pontiac and one long with the longer one being wider, LaCrosse and Chevy midsize

[TurboRush]

Croc, I think you are right on the money with your thoughts on Pontiac and Saab........ Saab has yet to make a presence in the world and is a growing brand. If GM makes the right moves, Saab will grow up to be a great moneymaker for it's parents. GM hasn't realy started putting money into SAAB until recently.... now is time to watch it grow :)

[RJB]

I just received my new issue of CAR magazine last week and they had a quick drive of the new Sportcombi wagon. They said overall its still as quirky as ever and it still has the torque steer to end all torque steer. It had th 2.8L engine, so bascially they said go for the diesel. Which of course we can't get here in the States. Slight things that keep hindering Saab I think.

[TurboRush]

They should realy bring the high power diesel to NA, I think it would sell rather well!

[Aerodynamic]

Bullsh!t. saab has an image- the car of choice for pot-smoking college professors in their 50s. A "quirky" brand that dare not break away from such esoteric trivalties as a key in the console or all 22 worldwide saab loyalists wail & moan. saab can only mean what it's meant for the last 25 years: FWD 4-banger hatchbacks with particularly upright windshields. Sure they have 1 or 2 other models outside that now... and they are verbally trounced by the 'faithful' and one of those's days are numbered.
It's these few "iconic" features that hamstring the development & growth of the brand...

okay so here are two statements you made that seriously pissed me off (im being honest here) well to start off my first car was a 1979 saab 900... im neither a college professor or a "pot-smoker"... im a girl who when she was 16 years old had $800.00 to buy a car... well i got one... perfect condition in every way you could imagine... i mean hell it was made in 1979 and it had HEATED seats... im sure that if you drive a pontiac it doesnt even have them now... i had a friend who was driving a 2001 pontiac and it was a pile of trash... we would take my car out everywhere we went.. she didnt even have power door locks or heated seats or anything! Yes my first saab DID have the key in the center but my current one doesnt... most of them do... and thats just a mark of the brand... all brands should keep things from there past and evolve around them to form a unique car thats not like every other car at every other dealership...

At least Pontiac is not saddled with the albatross of -say- using an Indian Head emblem and 3 2bbl carbs or encuring the rejection of the faithful.

haha i have that "indian head emblem" tattoo'd on me right below my bikini line... funny how people have different tastes... i love that emblem B)

Anyways... yes saabs are quirky cars and thats why anyone who has one loves it... yes they are expenisve but to the owners are worth every penny. SAAB isnt one of GM's biggest and most succesful brands... they are very under-marketed... if GM would invest in some better marketing SAAB could really go places. In todays world it doesnt matter how good of a product you have, but how well it is advertised.

Heres my "FWD 4-banger hatchback with a particularly upright windsheild" :angry:



46K new and lovin it. . .

you all are thinking about saabs so negatively... why dont you open your mind a little and look at how much people are dedicated to there saabs and try to understand why we love them so much and why we want the brand to survive. . .

i dont like pontiacs and no one could pay me any amount of money to drive one instead of my saab... but that being said i dont wish the brand to fail either.

:CG_all:

-Kaylan Marie

[TurboRush]

Kaylan and Balthazar...... I think the "indian head" you are reffering to is possibly the Griffin on the Saab logo? far from an indian........ Ironicaly, the Indian head or figure was pontiac's thing....... along with the arowhead.... ;)

[balthazar]

Of course not all saab buyers are like that, Aerodynamic, but that is (or moreso: was) saab's image for a long time, like it or not. But now you know how many Pontiac fans feel... repeatedly seeing their preferred division "trash"ed.

In step with you; I have a Pontiac and I would never even consider owning a saab either in replacement or in addition to my Poncho. I've looked at saabs as a result of hearing people (1... maybe 2) say how well they like them. I saw absolutely nothing attractive or appealing about them. In fact, the prime characteristic was archaic styling inside & out... to a degree that overshadowed whatever positive attributes there may have been. I've not driven one, largely because I've never met anyone who's ever owned one, but like I said: I saw nothing that would make me want to drive one.

The Pontiac Indian Head is indeed awesome- do you have the stylized early '50s version (my fav) or the more delicate one from the '30s? What's the story behind that, Ms. No Pontiacs?

BTW- I looked at a 1966 Cadillac last month with heated seats.

Kaylan and Balthazar...... I think the "indian head" you are reffering to is possibly the Griffin on the Saab logo? far from an indian....

No: I was talking about the Pontiac Indian Head logo used up into the mid '50s. You didn't think I was saying saabs used 3x2bbl carbs too, did you??

[Aerodynamic]

Kaylan and Balthazar...... I think the "indian head" you are reffering to is possibly the Griffin on the Saab logo? far from an indian........

Ironicaly, the Indian head or figure was pontiac's thing....... along with the arowhead....  ;)

[post="53304"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

you dont honestly think i am a saab owner who believes its an indian head do you?? i thought thats what he was calling it and i was joking. i know its our beloved griffin B) i will post up a pic of my tat for you sometime PM me with you TSL name okay?

BTW- I looked at a 1966 Cadillac last month with heated seats.

funny... saab DID invent heated seats... i didnt mean that my car was the first year they made them.... want the story?? :

someone who was working with saab designing a vehicle had a bad back... and during the winter time it got especially bad from the harsh cold temps they have in sweden. So they decided to put heating elements in the seats (these arent like the later seats where you turn them on with a switch/button/rolling adjuster but they turned on automatically when the car was on and it was below a certain temp outside.

but anyways enough argueing.. and this isnt about saabs and cads i thought this was about saabs and pontiacs? what year did they start using them? :blink:

I've not driven one, largely because I've never met anyone who's ever owned one, but like I said: I saw nothing that would make me want to drive one.

its funny because they say around (and help me out on this percentage turbo rush... might be 75?) 70% of people who test drive a saab will buy one. They are an awesome car to drive... and i havent ever had anyone say anything bad about my car... exterior or interior... who can argue with black leather recaro racing seats?? that are heated, 8 way power adjustable and 3 memory settings? perfection in my eyes! And much better then your poncho? :blink:

:CG_all:

-Kaylan Marie

sorry to start argueing and everything... im a perfectly resonable person and the only thing i will ever fight about (and i mean ever) is someone bad mouthing a saab. saabs are in my blood and insulting the brand is worse then anything you could do to me.

[TurboRush]

yep... that figure looks about right... I remember reading that somewhere.... In a certain arcticle I remember reading at the end said "if youre not convinced" dare to test drive one? And even on MSN autos in the section where ppl write reviews about a certain car, a number of ppl wrote that their perceptions were wrong and they were blown away (I presume by the turbo ;-) ) after a test drive and that is what persuaded them to buy... Honestly Balthazar, go to a Saab dealership and take a brand new 9-3 Arc for a spin....and yes the Arc because it is the middle of the line model that doesnt have the rough suspension but it does have the H/O Turbo engine......

[balthazar]

I'm not against that idea, TR, but I just don't have any free time. There is a dealer along one of my regular routes of travel, perhaps something will work out; at least a close-up visual inspection. Kaylan- I searched online but was unable to find either when saab first had heated seats, nor if in fact they were the first to introduce it. Cadillac's first offering may well be '66. I only brought up Cadillac because many people seems to think both saab is in the luxury segment. As for the interior issue: most pics I've seen of recent saab interiors were shockingly dated, IMO. I couldn't put those interiors in even the same ballpark as my Pontiac's interior, but I am easily as biased in this case as you are on saabs, so our opinions probably cancel each other out. ;) My Poncho isn't exactly 'recent' tho.

[Aerodynamic]

Saab is and always has been a luxury brand. ....i even have a poster in my bedroom of a '79 just like my old one... and at the top it says "LUXURY NEVER MOVED SO WELL".... its an old dealership poster! Now the newest dealer poster i have is a picture of a new 9-3 Aero and it says "Fly first class" because the new slogan "born from jets" of course... -Kaylan Marie Edited December 7, 2005 by Aerodynamic

[MyerShift]

SAAB is technically known for hatchbacks, right? Opel has a wagon, sedan, and a hatch version of the Vectra, right? I feel SAAB should have: The "Audi A3 Competitor": 9-2 3-Door Hatch 9-2 5-Door Hatch The "A4 Competitor": 9-3 Sports Sedan 9-3 Convertible 9-3 Sports Wagon (SportCombi) 9-3 3-Door Hatch 9-3 5-Door Hatch The "A6 Competitor" 9-5 Sports Sedan 9-5 Sports Wagon (SportCombi) 9-5 5-Door Hatch The "TT Competitor" Sonnet (9-1 perhaps?) The "Q5 Competitor" 9-6X The "Q7 Competitor" 9-7X And maybe for the ultimate flagship: 9-8/9-9 (Most likely rear drive (say it isn't so, it's a SAAB!)) And add all-wheel-drive as an option to all models across the board, with exceptions being certain trim levels such as the base Linear. Just the crazy ramblings of someone thinking how they would like SAAB supposing it could be done, and done profitably. -Pie in the Sky sort of thing-