2010 Buick LaCrosse

[Oracle of Delphi]

Links: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEKoxWfGICc

Edited June 7, 2009 by Pontiac Custom-S

[ZL-1]

Thx for posting those. Looks like a very nice car, but I'd prefer Buick not to offer CX models. In fact, I'd offer only one loaded trim level, with very few options.

Edited June 7, 2009 by ZL-1

[Satty]

I'd like to see Buick follow the Acura model too, but this is still GM we're talking about, they still need to supply Avis with rentals for blue-hairs in Reno.

[Robert Hall]

I'd like to see Buick follow the Acura model too, but this is still GM we're talking about, they still need to supply Avis with rentals for blue-hairs in Reno.

Well, and they have to overlap the Malibu now, since the G6 and Aura are on their way out...

[regfootball]

i have a sneaking suspicion that the taking of the impala badge off the impala and the g8 demise means the g8 becomes impala and the current impala gets renamed 'classic' and gets heavy fleet duty starting in about late 2010.

no facts, just a guess on my part.

[ZL-1]

i have a sneaking suspicion that the taking of the impala badge off the impala and the g8 demise means the g8 becomes impala and the current impala gets renamed 'classic' and gets heavy fleet duty starting in about late 2010.

no facts, just a guess on my part.

Sending the current Impala to Avis&Co wouldn't be a bad idea, as long as it meant Buick would not sell CX-trim levels anymore.

[vonVeezelsnider]

i have a sneaking suspicion that the taking of the impala badge off the impala and the g8 demise means the g8 becomes impala and the current impala gets renamed 'classic' and gets heavy fleet duty starting in about late 2010.

I don't think so, in fact I'd say that's next to impossible. The Impala gazelle came off, but so did the "LS" badge on LS models. It's aimed at cutting costs and saving money period. When/if a newer Impala comes out on EPII I would expect the gazelle to be back in all its glory.

Not sure I like this new Buick though. The more I look at it the less I like it. If I was to compare it to the CTS in style inside and out I'd say the CTS is a much more well executed design (and I really find it appealing). The LaCrosse has an attractive interior but the center stack puts me off of it somewhat, the exterior styling looks as if they're trying to be BMW. I'd still rather have a DTS or Lucerne or even a CTS4 over this car.

Edited June 7, 2009 by vonVeezelsnider

[CSpec]

Thanks for posting. I believe that this will be a marvelous car, and hopefully they advertise it and give it sensible options packaging. I also can't wait to see its cousin, the Saab 9-5.

[regfootball]

I don't think so, in fact I'd say that's next to impossible. The Impala gazelle came off, but so did the "LS" badge on LS models. It's aimed at cutting costs and saving money period. When/if a newer Impala comes out on EPII I would expect the gazelle to be back in all its glory.

Not sure I like this new Buick though. The more I look at it the less I like it. If I was to compare it to the CTS in style inside and out I'd say the CTS is a much more well executed design (and I really find it appealing). The LaCrosse has an attractive interior but the center stack puts me off of it somewhat, the exterior styling looks as if they're trying to be BMW. I'd still rather have a DTS or Lucerne or even a CTS4 over this car.

no i think the debadging is to take the impala identifier off the car so that in the time continuum there is further spacing of the current model from any impala badging so the next one can arrive sooner than thought possible.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti.../306089931/1197

Not too late for the G8? GM ponders rebranding.

Automotive News: June 8, 2009 - 12:01 am ET

Pontiac is toast at the end of the 2010 model year. But the Pontiac G8 sedan might survive with another GM badge, says Tom Stephens, General Motors' vice chairman of global product development.

"I know there's still discussions on it," says Stephens. "But Chevrolet already has several sedans. How many sedans do you need to cover the waterfront?"

The G8, engineered and assembled by GM subsidiary Holden in Australia, has been a bright spot for Pontiac. With little advertising support, the sporty, rear-drive sedan, which starts at $29,000 including freight, has sold well. Some versions have the same V-8 engine as the Chevrolet Corvette.

Some enthusiasts are lobbying GM to turn the G8 into a Chevrolet Impala SS. The current front-drive Impala SS is being phased out at the end of the 2009 model year.

The G8 also could morph into a performance sedan for Buick. Buick has not had a rear-drive performance car since the mid-1980s.

only glitches, i thought oshawa had the rights to the impala name.

Edited June 8, 2009 by regfootball

[ZL-1]

i thought oshawa had the rights to the impala name.

Maybe that limitation goes away with the bankruptcy process?

[Camino LS6]

meh.

[regfootball]

maybe we will have impala classic, without the leaping impala, and an impala SS.

[Drew Dowdell]

only glitches, i thought oshawa had the rights to the impala name.

Oshwa builds a Zeta now don't they?

[regfootball]

they were supposed to build the new one too. partly why they had it in the contract that the impala name is only built in oshawa.

[ponchoman49]

I don't think so, in fact I'd say that's next to impossible. The Impala gazelle came off, but so did the "LS" badge on LS models. It's aimed at cutting costs and saving money period. When/if a newer Impala comes out on EPII I would expect the gazelle to be back in all its glory.

Not sure I like this new Buick though. The more I look at it the less I like it. If I was to compare it to the CTS in style inside and out I'd say the CTS is a much more well executed design (and I really find it appealing). The LaCrosse has an attractive interior but the center stack puts me off of it somewhat, the exterior styling looks as if they're trying to be BMW. I'd still rather have a DTS or Lucerne or even a CTS4 over this car.

I agree 100%. There is something just not right about the new LaCrosse. the sweepspear looks odd, the Lexus copy rear end and mislocated chrome strip at the bottom of the door, the bloated plain side look and the hidden from side view mini port holes are all a turn off to me. The 4000 lb curb weight is crazy, the 13.3 cu. ft. trunk is a joke, the CX model follows the current cars mistake of offering light tan cloth or light gray cloth seats with no other colors available, the 3.0 liter has less torque than the old 3800 and gets one less MPG and teh dash and center stack just look strange and outlandish. The DTS, Lucerne or CTS are far more appealing looking to my eyes also.

[vonVeezelsnider]

I agree 100%. There is something just not right about the new LaCrosse. the sweepspear looks odd, the Lexus copy rear end and mislocated chrome strip at the bottom of the door, the bloated plain side look and the hidden from side view mini port holes are all a turn off to me. The 4000 lb curb weight is crazy, the 13.3 cu. ft. trunk is a joke, the CX model follows the current cars mistake of offering light tan cloth or light gray cloth seats with no other colors available, the 3.0 liter has less torque than the old 3800 and gets one less MPG and teh dash and center stack just look strange and outlandish. The DTS, Lucerne or CTS are far more appealing looking to my eyes also.

I agree on all points but FYI the new LaX has a 17-18 cu ft trunk.

[InvictaMan]

The only thing I don't like about the new LaCrosse is the fact that the fuel door is on the wrong side. Picked up my LaCrosse brochure, which is very classy BTW, and decided to make some comparisons in style and quality. Just took a stroll through the Lincoln site and seriously, Buick is simply blowing the doors off of them now. The LaCrosse is light years ahead of the MKS in styling, inside and out. Want bloated, take a look at the MKT. Sheesh, what were they thinking. It is a disproportionate nightmare of a CUV. The Enclave is without a doubt the better option. And if the 2012 Enclave clay floating around is any indication, it is only going to move further ahead.

[Justin Bimmer]

The only thing I don't like about the new LaCrosse is the fact that the fuel door is on the wrong side. Picked up my LaCrosse brochure, which is very classy BTW, and decided to make some comparisons in style and quality. Just took a stroll through the Lincoln site and seriously, Buick is simply blowing the doors off of them now. The LaCrosse is light years ahead of the MKS in styling, inside and out. Want bloated, take a look at the MKT. Sheesh, what were they thinking. It is a disproportionate nightmare of a CUV. The Enclave is without a doubt the better option. And if the 2012 Enclave clay floating around is any indication, it is only going to move further ahead.

What is wrong side?

If my fuel door was on the passenger side, i would get in and out at Costco gas hella quick.

Even still, i go thru that lane and just pull the hose over to the other side.

[Robert Hall]

What is wrong side?

If my fuel door was on the passenger side, i would get in and out at Costco gas hella quick.

Even still, i go thru that lane and just pull the hose over to the other side.

Looks like it's on the passenger side (right side). I've had cars with it on the right (a lot of Fords back to the late '70s have had it there) and on the left. On the left is slightly more convenient to pull up and fuel up. But either side works, and with gas stations with 8-10 or more pumps, it's easy enough to pull up on the correct side.

[SAmadei]

Looks like it's on the passenger side (right side). I've had cars with it on the right (a lot of Fords back to the late '70s have had it there) and on the left. On the left is slightly more convenient to pull up and fuel up. But either side works, and with gas stations with 8-10 or more pumps, it's easy enough to pull up on the correct side.

Since we live in an era where we need 9 cupholders for 4 passengers, why not put a gas door on both sides of the car?

I miss the old license plate hidden rear gas filler... yeah, yeah, I understand the safety issue, but that's why I had 6 foot of trunk.

[Robert Hall]

I miss the old license plate hidden rear gas filler... yeah, yeah, I understand the safety issue, but that's why I had 6 foot of trunk.

Meh..those suck because you have to bend over so far to reach them, and easy to spill.

[InvictaMan]

On the left is slightly more convenient to pull up and fuel up.

Hey, I'm lazy. And I enjoy nothing more than a good laugh at watching people drive in for gas, realize they put the pump on the wrong side and have to reorient the car to pump gas. Guess I have just driven Japanese cars (Hondas) for so long that I could see myself being one of those who pulled in wrong. Do they have right side drive in China, if so, this must have been a cost saver. All the other Buicks my family has had were driver (left) side fillers, or the tag filler, which I must say I liked back in the day as well.

[Robert Hall]

Hey, I'm lazy. And I enjoy nothing more than a good laugh at watching people drive in for gas, realize they put the pump on the wrong side and have to reorient the car to pump gas.

I've pulled in the wrong way when I'm in a rental I'm unfamiliar with (and don't check the gauges for an arrow) or I drive my '87 Mustang (which is on the right, while my Jeep is on the left).

[hyperv6]

Anyone see the 2.0 turbo is headed to this car. I wonder how it will be with the 6 Speed auto. I wonder if they will bring in a 6 speed man?

It should make for some smooth power.

[hyperv6]

I checked on my GM info site and there is no mention of Fritz's 2.0 turbo yet but here is a some of the info GM has posted. The 3.6 is 280 Hp and the 3.0 is 255 HP

Buick LaCrosse

Highlights

All new available models include; CX 4GE69, CXL FWD 4GM69, CXL AWD 4GG69 and CXS 4GT69 models

(GAN) Quicksilver Metallic exterior color

(GAO) Gold Mist Metallic exterior color

(GAP) Midnight Blue Metallic exterior color

(GAQ) Red Jewel Tintcoat exterior color

(GAR) Carbon Black Metallic exterior color

(GAZ) Summit White exterior color

(GBN) White Diamond Tricoat exterior color

(GHA) Mocha Steel Metallic exterior color

(AFA) Cocoa/Light Cashmere cloth seats

(AFB) Dark Titanium/Light Titanium cloth seats

(AFC) Cocoa/Light Cashmere leather-appointed seats

(AFE) Dark Titanium/Light Titanium leather-appointed seats

(AFG) Ebony leather-appointed seats

(AFD) Cocoa/Light Cashmere perforated leather-appointed seats

(AFF) Dark Titanium/Light Titanium perforated leather-appointed seats

(AFH) Ebony perforated leather-appointed seats

(PYX) 17" high vent steel wheels with flush cover (standard on CX)

(Q04) 17" machined alloy wheels (available on CX)

(PW2) 18" machine-faced alloy, painted wheels (standard on CXL)

(Q52) 18" chrome-plated wheels (available on CXL, standard on CXS)

(Q70) 19" 9-spoke painted, machined alloy wheels (included and only available on CXS with (PCZ) Touring Package)

(PDD) Comfort and Convenience Package #1, includes (CJ2) dual-zone automatic climate control, (DD8) inside rearview auto-dimming mirror, (UPF) Bluetooth for phone, (APG) driver 4-way power lumbar, (BTV) remote vehicle starter system, (AG2) front passenger 6-way power seat adjuster and (UG1) Universal Home Remote (standard on CXL and CXS, available on CX)

(PCM) Comfort and Convenience Package #2, includes (UD7) Ultrasonic Rear Parking Assist, (A45) memory settings and (DLG) outside heated power-adjustable, manual-folding mirrors with integrated turn signal indicators, ground illumination and driver-side memory and auto-dimming feature (standard on CXS, available on CXL)

(PCK) Luxury Package, includes (NR5) leather and wood grain heated steering wheel, (KU1) driver ventilated seat, (KU3) front passenger ventilated seat, perforated leather-appointed seating, (DB3) power rear sunshade, (ATH) E-Z Key Passive Entry System and (BTM) keyless start (standard on CXS, available on CXL)

(PCI) Driver Confidence Package, includes (UFT) Side Blind Zone Alert, (TT2) Xenon, articulating High-intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps and (UV6) Head-Up Display (available late summer '09 on CXL and CXS)

(PCZ) Touring Package, includes (Q70) 19" (48.3 cm) 9-spoke painted, machined alloy wheels, (RP2) P245/40R19 all-season, blackwall tires, (GNE) Rear H-arm suspension, (F45) Chassis continuously variable real time damping and Sport Mode Selectivity (available on CXS)

(PDB) Entertainment Package, includes (UQA) harman/kardon 280-watt 9-speaker system, (USR) USB port and (KI6) 120V power outlet (standard on CXS, available on CX and CXL)

(AW7) Rear seat mounted thorax air bags (available on all models)

(UYE) AM/FM/XM audio system with single disc CD and MP3 player, auxiliary jack input, seek-and-scan, digital clock, auto-tone control, speed-compensated volume and TheftLock (standard on all models)

(UYS) Audio system with navigation, single CD/DVD player, 40GB Hard Drive Device, MP3 playback, HDD-based navigation and (UVC) rearview camera system (available on CXL and CXS)

(UWG) Rear seat dual-display DVD entertainment system, includes (UYZ) AM/FM/XM CD/DVD player stereo and rear seat dual-display DVD in the headrests (available on CXL and CXS)

(UDC) Single color and (UDD) Multi-color Enhanced driver instrument information (single color standard on CX and CXL, multi-color standard on CXS)

(TSP) Custom Lighting, interior front and rear reading, front and rear door and console ambient lighting, front foot well, puddle lights and instrument panel light pipe (standard on all models)

(VY7) Leather-wrapped shift knob (standard on all models)

(C3U) Oversized, power sunroof (available on CXL and CXS)

LED rear stop tail lamps (standard on all models)

(G96) Electronic limited slip differential (standard on CXL AWD)

(F46) All-wheel drive (standard on CXL AWD)

(LF1) 3.0L DOHC, V6 Variable Valve Timing, Spark Ignition Direct Injection engine (standard on CX and CXL)

(LLT) 3.6L DOHC, V6 Variable Valve Timing, Spark Ignition Direct Injection engine (standard on CXS)

(GNA) front MacPherson strut suspension (standard on all models)

(GNC) rear 4-link suspension (standard on CX and CXS)

(GNE) rear H-arm suspension (standard on CXL, available on CXS with (PCZ) Touring Package)

(MH2/MH4) 6-speed electronically controlled automatic transmissions with overdrive and Driver Shift Control, tap up/tap down ((MH2) standard on CX, CXL (FWD) and CXS, (MH4) standard on CXL (AWD))

Curb weight, lbs. (kg) 3948 to 4199

Cargo volume, cu. ft. (liters) 13.3 (376.7) to 12.8 (362.5)

Fuel capacity, approximate, gallon (liters) 18 (68) Seating capacity, max. (front/rear) 2/3 2/3 2/3 2/3

Engine, 3.0L DOHC, V6 VVT Spark Ignition Direct Injection (SIDI) (FWD - 255 hp [193.9 kW] @ 6900 rpm, 217 lb-ft of torque [293.0 N-m] @ 5100 rpm) (AWD - 252 hp [187.9 kW] @ 6900 rpm, 215 lb-ft of torque [290.3 N-m] @ 5100 rpm

Engine, 3.6L Variable Valve Timing V6 with SIDI (Spark Ignition Direct Injection), DOHC (280 hp [215.5 kW] @ 6300 rpm, 259 lb-ft of torque [349.7 N-m] @ 4800 rpm)

Edited June 13, 2009 by hyperv6

[hyperv6]

Here are the RPO's

Option

Code Description

A45 Memory settings

A51 Seats, front bucket

A69 Safety belts, 3-point, rear, all seating positions

A6C Seat adjuster, passenger, 4-way manual, 2-way power vertical

A70 Safety belts, 3-point, driver and front passenger

AEF Window, power

AEQ Windows, power

AG1 Seat adjuster, driver 8-way power

AG2 Seat adjuster, front passenger 8-way power

AJC Headrests, 2-way adjustable

AL0 Air bag Passenger Sensing System

AP9 Cargo net

APG Seat adjuster, driver 4-way power lumbar

AQQ Remote Keyless Entry

ATH E-Z Key Passive Entry System

AW7 Air bags, rear seat mounted

AXG Window, power

AY0 Air bags, dual-stage frontal and side-impact, driver and right-front passenger and head curtain side-impact, front and rear outboard seating positions

B37 Floor mats, carpeted front and rear

B7Y Sill plates, front

B85 Moldings, bodyside

BAH Theft-deterrent system, immobilizer

BTM Keyless start, switch

BTV Remote vehicle starter system

C3U Sunroof, power

C68 Air conditioning, single-zone automatic climate control

CJ2 Air conditioning, dual-zone automatic climate control

D31 Mirror, inside rearview manual day/night

D70 Axle, 2.77 ratio

DA1 Armrest, center, rear

DB3 Sunshade, power

DD8 Mirror, inside rearview auto-dimming

DH6 Visors, driver and front passenger illuminated vanity mirrors

DLF Mirrors, outside heated power-adjustable

DLG Mirrors, outside heated power-adjustable

DLL Mirrors, outside heated power-adjustable

F45 Chassis continuously variable real time damping

F46 Drivetrain, all-wheel drive

FE9 Emissions, Federal requirements

FX3 StabiliTrak, stability control system

G96 Differential, electronic limited slip

GNA Suspension, front

GNC Suspension, rear 4-link

GNE Suspension, rear H-arm

J61 Brakes, 4-wheel antilock, 4-wheel disc

J71 Brake, parking

K05 Engine block heater

K34 Cruise control

KA1 Seats, heated driver and front passenger

KI6 Power outlet, 120-volt

KRH Air filtration system

KU1 Seat, ventilated driver

KU3 Seat, ventilated passenger

LF1 Engine, 3.0L DOHC, V6 VVT Spark Ignition Direct Injection

LLT Engine, 3.6L Variable Valve Timing V6 with SIDI (Spark Ignition Direct Injection)

MH2 Transmission, 6-speed automatic

MH4 Transmission, 6-speed automatic

N37 Steering column, tilt and telescopic

N40 Steering, power

NB8 Emissions override, California

NB9 Emissions override, state-specific

NC7 Emissions override, Federal

NCG Door locks, child security, rear

NE1 Emissions, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington state requirements

NR0 Steering wheel, leather-wrapped rim

NR5 Steering wheel

NV7 Steering, power, variable effort

P77 Tire, compact spare, 17" (43.2 cm)

PCK Luxury Package

PCM Comfort and Convenience Package #2

PCZ Touring Package

PDB Entertainment Package

PDD Comfort and Convenience Package #1

PW2 Wheels, 18" (45.7 cm) machine-faced alloy

PYX Wheels, 17" (43.2 cm) high vent steel

Q04 Wheels, 17" (43.2 cm) machined alloy

Q52 Wheels, 18" (45.7 cm) chrome-plated

Q70 Wheels, 19" (48.3 cm) 9-spoke painted, machined alloy

QFV Tires, P245/50R17 all-season, blackwall, steel-belted radial

QKE Tires, P235/50R18 V-rated all-season, blackwall

R6B XM Radio, service not available

R8G Cumulative second year of OnStar Safe and Sound Service

R8P Cumulative second and third year of OnStar Safe and Sound Service

R8Y OnStar 1 additional Year of Directions and Connections Service

R8Z OnStar 2 Additional Years Directions and Connections Service

RFA OnStar Business Vehicle Manager Service

RFG OnStar 3 Additional Years Safe and Sound Service

RFH OnStar 4 Additional Years Safe and Sound Service

RP2 Tires, P245/40R19 all-season, blackwall

T61 Daytime Running Lamps

T67 Battery, maintenance free

T96 Fog lamps, front

TSP Lighting, custom

TT4 Headlamps, halogen composite

U2K XM Radio

U65 Audio system feature, premium 7-speaker system

U77 Antenna, integral rear window

U80 Compass display

UD7 Rear Parking Assist

UDC Display, driver instrument information enhanced, one color

UDD Display, driver instrument information enhanced, multi-color

UE1 OnStar, 1-year of Directions and Connections plan

UG1 Universal Home Remote

UJM Tire Pressure Monitor System

UPF Bluetooth for phone, personal cell phone connectivity to vehicle audio system

UQA Audio system feature, harman/kardon 384-watt, 11-speaker 5.1 Matrix surround system

USR Audio system feature, USB port

UVC Rearview camera system

UWG Entertainment system

UYE Audio system, AM/FM/XM stereo, single disc CD and MP3 player

UYS Audio system with navigation, AM/FM/XM stereo, single CD/DVD player, 40GB Hard Drive Device, MP3 playback, HDD-based navigation

UYZ Audio system, AM/FM/XM stereo, single CD/DVD player

VK3 License plate bracket, front

VY7 Shift knob, leather-wrapped

W1Y Steering wheel controls, mounted audio controls

YF5 Emissions, California state requirements

Note UYS 40GB hard drive option

[ZL-1]

Why AWD isn't available with the 3.6L engine is beyond me...

[hyperv6]

Why AWD isn't available with the 3.6L engine is beyond me...

That is odd but the norm for GM. The CTS AWD is on the V6 but not an option on the V car.

Could the power of the two V6 engines as small as it is be enough to be a problem with the AWD?

[Z-06]

That has been the plan for Buick all way long, even in the Detroit Auto Show Press Release it was mentioned that AWD will be only available with 3.0L, not the 3.6L.

[Sixty8panther]

Love the styling....but the FWD mechanicals & resulting proportions

just do not make me get excited. Now if this same car was built off

the Zeta or Sigma chassis, it would certainly be the cat's meow!

[cire]

Thx for posting those. Looks like a very nice car, but I'd prefer Buick not to offer CX models. In fact, I'd offer only one loaded trim level, with very few options.

I totally agree. The CX trim is stripped down to base level Chevrolet status: plastic wheel covers, no foglights, no dual zone automatic climate control, etc...

My guess is that the CX trim level allows Buick to advertise significantly lower base prices for its models than its primary rivals in the market. This is absolutely the wrong approach GM should be taking with Buick. Buick should represent world class premium vehicles, not bargain basement alternatives.

I agree with your approach. All Buick products would be offered with one loaded trim level that contains a very comprehensive list of luxury and tech features as standard equipment. Buick customers would then have a choice of a few stand alone options as well as powertrain preference and drive orientation.

Why doesn't GM get this? Chevrolet should be affordable, Buick/GMC should be aspirational, and Cadillac should be top-tier luxury. Buick/GMC products should start off being equipped at levels that are slightly above the top trim levels of their Chevrolet platform mates, not slightly above Chevrolet's base trim levels.

On an unrelated note: I think that both the W-body LaCrosse and the Lucerne should be discontinued when the LWB Eps II LaCrosse is launched. The Enclave and 2010 LaCrosse should be allowed to lead Buick into the future without the geriatric Lucerne hanging around to remind everyone how outdated and uncompetitive the brand used to be.

Edited June 14, 2009 by cire

[regfootball]

you think GM would ever make an AWD, manual trans luxury sedan or wagon?

pipe dream........

be lucky the lacrosse even offers it...AWD that is.......

[ZL-1]

The Enclave and 2010 LaCrosse should be allowed to lead Buick into the future without the geriatric Lucerne hanging around to remind everyone how outdated and uncompetitive the brand used to be.

Agreed.

Although I think that GM probably needs to keep selling something to Avis, so they keep the Impala and Lucerne alive.

[hyperv6]

I also agree that the base cars have to go. Buick can have a based car but it needs to have some standards like Alloy wheels. As for Leather I am ok with a cloth option as not everyone like leather. I would like to see a upgraded cloth interior.

The Lucerne for all they sell will not help or hurt here. It is out dated but still not a horrible car. If I agree it will provide good contrast on where GM is going till the next model.

Buick needs and will get new models but I do not want to see any more investment in a Zeta for all the longer it will be here. I would rather see them do a RWD on a platform they can build on for years to come and meet goverment standards. Alpha or new Sigma would be a good place to start to build a new long lasting division leading car.

As for the AWD I bet is will not even make up 25% of sales so the engine will not hurt or help much.

[cire]

I also agree that the base cars have to go. Buick can have a based car but it needs to have some standards like Alloy wheels. As for Leather I am ok with a cloth option as not everyone like leather. I would like to see a upgraded cloth interior.

The Lucerne for all they sell will not help or hurt here. It is out dated but still not a horrible car. If I agree it will provide good contrast on where GM is going till the next model.

Buick needs and will get new models but I do not want to see any more investment in a Zeta for all the longer it will be here. I would rather see them do a RWD on a platform they can build on for years to come and meet goverment standards. Alpha or new Sigma would be a good place to start to build a new long lasting division leading car.

As for the AWD I bet is will not even make up 25% of sales so the engine will not hurt or help much.

I'm not sure I agree with you about Zeta. From what I understand, it's a versatile, world class platform; it just happens to be a bit heavy (which seems to be a problem with GM products in general). If GM and Holden can work on reducing the platform's weight to accept more fuel efficient powertrain choices, then I think it's worth keeping the platform around in the future. If I'm not mistaken, it can also be downsized to underpin smaller vehicles than the ones that currently sit on the platform. If this platform can be updated and improved to meet future CAFE regulations and market expectations, then it seems a little foolish to just throw it away. I'm not sure about the costs of developing an entirely new platform as opposed to significantly improving an existing platform (that isn't that old), but it seems to me that it would be cheaper to modify Zeta for future applications than develop a new platform.

I think Sigma should remain exclusive to Cadillac. If Sigma can be downsized to create a sub-CTS car series for Cadillac, then I would like to see GM do this also. If Sigma isn't very flexible, then I would like to see GM possibly create a Sigma-Zeta hybrid platform to allow for the development of various sized products (at one point there was a rumor that GM was working on this, but it might have been cancelled OR it was just simply a rumor).

Edited June 14, 2009 by cire

[hyperv6]

I'm not sure I agree with you about Zeta. From what I understand, it's a versatile, world class platform; it just happens to be a bit heavy (which seems to be a problem with GM products in general). If GM and Holden can work on reducing the platform's weight to accept more fuel efficient powertrain choices, then I think it's worth keeping the platform around in the future. If I'm not mistaken, it can also be downsized to underpin smaller vehicles than the ones that currently sit on the platform. If this platform can be updated and improved to meet future CAFE regulations and market expectations, then it seems a little foolish to just throw it away. I'm not sure about the costs of developing an entirely new platform as opposed to significantly improving an existing platform (that isn't that old), but it seems to me that it would be cheaper to modify Zeta for future applications than develop a new platform.

I think Sigma should remain exclusive to Cadillac. If Sigma can be downsized to create a sub-CTS car series for Cadillac, then I would like to see GM do this also. If Sigma isn't very flexible, then I would like to see GM possibly create a Sigma-Zeta hybrid platform to allow for the development of various sized products (at one point there was a rumor that GM was working on this, but it might have been cancelled OR it was just simply a rumor).

I believe that if possible we may see the Zeta reworked into a smaller car. Alpha? The basic car is there and if they can rework the car as it was once claimed in wheel base and width this could be what they may do. It would save money and time.

I am not calling for the death of Zeta but for it to be transformed into the Alpha as a smaller lighter car. I want to see an affodable RWD car in 2026 and to do so Zeta has to change or be replaced.

Sharing parts with Sigma would also be cost effective but I am not sure where GM wants to go with this plaform.

The issue today is too much weight in almost any car not just GM. They can cut weight fast with new metals [boron etc] but it also increases cost fast. GM may be able to deal with the price after they get the labor cost of building a car down.

Edited June 14, 2009 by hyperv6

[Lamar]

you think GM would ever make an AWD, manual trans luxury sedan or wagon?

Who does anymore, besides BMW and Audi?