Interesting BW article on Gen Y and Detroit

[gmcbob]

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflas...0527_888775.htm

It's going to take some outstanding product and marketing to get young people thinking about Ford, GM and Chrysler the same way they think about Toyota, Honda and the other import manufacturers as we keep moving along.

I tend to be a realist, and my gut is telling me that things are probably going to be very ugly for the Big 3 over the next year or two, maybe even permanently (except for Ford perhaps), but I still have a little bit of hope left.

I'm down here in Texas, so I'm pretty far removed from the Big 3 stronghold area (Midwest) but I still see young people driving newer domestic cars and trucks (trust me, I have to sort of look hard, especially in the more affluent parts of town, but I do see it).

The stats on California in this article are amazing. I think it's crazy here in Houston how popular import manufacturers tend to be nowadays, but whenever I'm visiting California, I'm blown away by the sheer lack of presence that the Big 3 have on the roads - it's actually uncanny to me.

The Big 3 can win over young people, but they're going to have to be very, very clever about it. There's an opportunity in this to really wipe the slate clean.

My 15 year old nephew likes my 68 Impala - a lot. His parents own a Toyota and a Nissan. There's mojo in the older domestic stuff - and it resonates well with young people. Take that and somehow convey the message that the new product is the best in design and character from that era, with the best of technology and innovation from this era, and it could work.

I think there's a solid opportunity with the Camaro to bring a lot of 20 somethings into Chevy showrooms over the next year or so.

[regfootball]

its quite a bit of BS. 20+/- yo and making judgements about what car sucks when chances are they have never made a car payment or a house payment and have never owned a new car by which to make claims about whether a car is reliable or not.

and then it is still a fashion thing. cars are bought as fashion accessories. so yeah, if you're young and want to impress your friends you have to buy the import vehicle, its a designer product.

and then they end up buying the big weiner mobiles anyways, camry, accord, outback. because someone told them to.

Edited May 30, 2009 by regfootball

[vonVeezelsnider]

and then they end up buying the big weiner mobiles anyways, camry, accord, outback. because someone told them to.

Not Me. Not Ever.

[Satty]

and then they end up buying the big weiner mobiles anyways, camry, accord, outback. because someone told them to.

As opposed to old guys buying Pontiacs and Chevys because someone told them to 30 years ago, or because they made an awesome performance car back in 1969?

[Blake Noble]

I've owned three domestic vehicles and I would honestly hate to own anything else. I'm not saying that I'm going to limit my choices, but after the Firebird and my next project car, Ford will be my first stop for a new car because they offer a car that correctly offers the qualities that I want in a car (Mustang).

[FAPTurbo]

Being part of the generation that skateboards on your sidewalks, and downloads the Internet through the Google tubes, while listening to the hippity-hoppity because we don't know what the Jazz is all about, I'd say this article is more or less on the money.

[mustang84]

^

[regfootball]

As opposed to old guys buying Pontiacs and Chevys because someone told them to 30 years ago, or because they made an awesome performance car back in 1969?

or its simply because they think rice vehicles look retarded and are built flimsy.

[Satty]

or its simply because they think rice vehicles look retarded and are built flimsy.

Isn't that the exact same thing as people thinking domestics are clumsy and unreliable?

[regfootball]

there is enough evidence out there that confirms there is not a lot of difference between pretty much all makes these days. quality as an impression is formed in the details also. as an example, as i inspected a hyundai elantra touring the other day, i was appalled at how thin the sheet metal around the trunk was and how cheaply it was trimmed out. tundra for example is a horrible vehicle in both the way they lauched it and how cheap it feels inside and out. crumpling tailgates?

if you want to get in survey pissing matches there are more than enough studies out there that confirm US brand reliability is right up there.

and like i said, if you haven't even had a license or even a set of keys long enough to live with a vehicle for its full life after buying new (if you've had a new vehicle at all), its rather funny to attempt to make quality statements about a vehicle brand as a whole.

and as a whole, there are more import floaters out there than not, just like domestics. most of your asian cars by volume that get sold in the country are the worst floaters. the euro stuff that actually sells (not just the ones that get wrote up in the mags) are floaters too. for example a passat 2.0t. steers ok but ride and handling in no way are what you would call for an enthusiast. i think if you drove an aura and a passat side by side you would find the aura rides and steers quicker.

most audi, lexus, volvo, mercedes sold by volume are floaters. even a non sport 3 series is not anything to get excited about.

Edited June 1, 2009 by regfootball

[Satty]

And there are enough studies out there confirming imports are reliable vehicles as well.

My point is that you make a lot of asinine assumptions and throw a ton of faulty logic out there to diminish imports.

[regfootball]

i guess i don't care about how others arrive at their misguided logic. i typically only need a short test drive to confirm the car sucks.

kind of like the toyota vibe i test drove a few days ago. utter cheese. its sad gm has to affix its name to a lifeless soulless vehicle like that.

[black02]

The stats on California in this article are amazing. I think it's crazy here in Houston how popular import manufacturers tend to be nowadays, but whenever I'm visiting California, I'm blown away by the sheer lack of presence that the Big 3 have on the roads - it's actually uncanny to me.

The Big 3 can win over young people, but they're going to have to be very, very clever about it. There's an opportunity in this to really wipe the slate clean.

My 15 year old nephew likes my 68 Impala - a lot. His parents own a Toyota and a Nissan. There's mojo in the older domestic stuff - and it resonates well with young people. Take that and somehow convey the message that the new product is the best in design and character from that era, with the best of technology and innovation from this era, and it could work.

I think there's a solid opportunity with the Camaro to bring a lot of 20 somethings into Chevy showrooms over the next year or so.

Yeah, in the LA and Bay areas, almost no one buys a new domestic sedan. If you go into the central valley -- places such as Fresno and Bakersfield -- the domestics do quite a bit better (i.e. you see some). But I see quite a lot of Camaros and Mustangs in the areas where sedans don't sell. Also, the 300 and Charger do well.

It definitely helps that you can't get anything like a Charger from Toyota or Honda. It's too bad that GM canceled their Zeta Chevy sedan plans.

[hyperv6]

We can sit here and bash the imports and the people wh drive them all day and it will not change a thing.

The fact is the group of anti American car buyers has grown and is a very large group today , Misguided, mis informed what ever the excuse they are buying thiese cars and bashing American cars more and more. These people do not intend to ever buy an american car as they feel no need to.

This is something that GM and the others lost with this generation that grew up in Hondas and Toyotas. Odds of winning them back are slim. What American car comanies need to do is win back those with open minds and wallets. Also win back the kids just entering the car market that are still open to cool neat cars they would like.

It took American car companied 25-35 years to created this group and it will take some time to creat a new generation. Cars like the Camaro will wins some but they also GM needs to offer cool cars Gen Y would pay attention too. They don't care about V8 engines and larger cars they want smaller powerful cars. Now witht he new Hyundia and drifting at least they will now show an interest in RWD.

GM needs cars like a Mini and WRX to compliment the Camaro. THese are markets GM has hardly made a serious entry in. The Cobalt SS is one car that shows they can so it mechanically but it needs to be in newer and better sheet metal. I just hope they use the Alpha in this area if it makes it.

[enzl]

Not that anyone cares...but I'll chime in that one of the reasons I rarely visit this site anymore is the lack of ideas.

Yea, I know there are diehard GM fans in the group...and they're going to dredge up how crappy certain import cars/features/whatever are to prove a point to noone but themselves and those that agree.

Then, one of the more moderate members has the 'temerity' to question whether the first posters' statement is accurate...and then it devolves into the same drivel.

Guess what--the Det3 lost. It's over, just as predicted by some of the most disliked members on this board.

Now its a matter of saving what's left---be it your favorite GM model or a local dealer.

The kids are right because that's the future. Logic dictates little of these opinions...

[Camino LS6]

Some of you may be surprised to hear me say this, but I think there is a real hope for the domestics going forward. I have employed many 18-25 year-olds for several decades now, and my observation is that there is a great deal of love for domestic products in this group now. They loved the f-bodies and the GTO and the Mustang, shopped the Cobalt SS and lusted after the Solstice. They bought ( and enjoyed) Jeep after Jeep, and revere the legends of the the Corvette and Viper. They know that real trucks are only built here, and that old Japanese cars can really suck. They also don't make any time for PR BS, they find the sources that will give them the truth.

They may be mercenary, and short on brand loyalty, but they are not the sheeple that their parents have become. The cakewalk that Toyota and Honda have enjoyed is over, the score will begin again at 0-0 over the next few years. The foreign makes will see the percentage of retirees in their demographics increase steadily, but youth will make new choices. Just like each generation before them, they do not want to be their parents.

The next decade in the auto business will be a wild west of change.

[Z-06]

Not all is lost, the road is tough, but not impossible. GM can be back if it keeps the heads in the right places, keeps constantly leading rather than following and listens to what customers have to say and provide what customers want.

[z28luvr01]

Some of you may be surprised to hear me say this, but I think there is a real hope for the domestics going forward. I have employed many 18-25 year-olds for several decades now, and my observation is that there is a great deal of love for domestic products in this group now. They loved the f-bodies and the GTO and the Mustang, shopped the Cobalt SS and lusted after the Solstice. They bought ( and enjoyed) Jeep after Jeep, and revere the legends of the the Corvette and Viper. They know that real trucks are only built here, and that old Japanese cars can really suck. They also don't make any time for PR BS, they find the sources that will give them the truth.

They may be mercenary, and short on brand loyalty, but they are not the sheeple that their parents have become. The cakewalk that Toyota and Honda have enjoyed is over, the score will begin again at 0-0 over the next few years. The foreign makes will see the percentage of retirees in their demographics increase steadily, but youth will make new choices. Just like each generation before them, they do not want to be their parents.

The next decade in the auto business will be a wild west of change.

Yes, yes, and yes. It's why I've heard Gen Y referred to as "Gen Why". They are searching for truth and give little value to past perceptions. While not tuning this thread political, I'll also point out that our current president resonates very well with this demographic, and his attempts to emphasize the importance of the American auto industry to America will not be lost on them.

[hyperv6]

Some of you may be surprised to hear me say this, but I think there is a real hope for the domestics going forward. I have employed many 18-25 year-olds for several decades now, and my observation is that there is a great deal of love for domestic products in this group now. They loved the f-bodies and the GTO and the Mustang, shopped the Cobalt SS and lusted after the Solstice. They bought ( and enjoyed) Jeep after Jeep, and revere the legends of the the Corvette and Viper. They know that real trucks are only built here, and that old Japanese cars can really suck. They also don't make any time for PR BS, they find the sources that will give them the truth.

They may be mercenary, and short on brand loyalty, but they are not the sheeple that their parents have become. The cakewalk that Toyota and Honda have enjoyed is over, the score will begin again at 0-0 over the next few years. The foreign makes will see the percentage of retirees in their demographics increase steadily, but youth will make new choices. Just like each generation before them, they do not want to be their parents.

The next decade in the auto business will be a wild west of change.

I hope you are correct.

I have noticed the last two months FOrd and GM sales have dropped much less than Toyota and Honda. I would have expected a drop in GM sales just because of the killing of brands. They were the ones that took the hit but the others did much better.

I know there are 101 reasons this could happen but I hope maybe some people do have a little pride in the American companies and will come back to support them.

[A Horse With No Name]

My point is that you make a lot of asinine assumptions and throw a ton of faulty logic out there to diminish imports.

...a lot of people here do. I've got news for ya. other than it's minivan, Hyundai is about to hand Toyota their ass, and Nissan is on the move. Mazda has a great car in the 5 and the 3, and Honda isn't sitting still either.

People who buy these cars are not all ignorant retards.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Some of you may be surprised to hear me say this, but I think there is a real hope for the domestics going forward. I have employed many 18-25 year-olds for several decades now, and my observation is that there is a great deal of love for domestic products in this group now. They loved the f-bodies and the GTO and the Mustang, shopped the Cobalt SS and lusted after the Solstice. They bought ( and enjoyed) Jeep after Jeep, and revere the legends of the the Corvette and Viper. They know that real trucks are only built here, and that old Japanese cars can really suck. They also don't make any time for PR BS, they find the sources that will give them the truth.

They may be mercenary, and short on brand loyalty, but they are not the sheeple that their parents have become. The cakewalk that Toyota and Honda have enjoyed is over, the score will begin again at 0-0 over the next few years. The foreign makes will see the percentage of retirees in their demographics increase steadily, but youth will make new choices. Just like each generation before them, they do not want to be their parents.

The next decade in the auto business will be a wild west of change.

Actually this is one of the best posts you've ever made, and that is saying something. I wonder why everyone here is so threatened by "change" when change and a dynamic marketplace is what drives us to waste time on the interweb BS'ing about cars with each other.

I have noticed the SAME thing in the younger crowd, although Chev. will have to come up with a replacement for the Cobalt SS.

Chris

[gm4life]

Some of you may be surprised to hear me say this, but I think there is a real hope for the domestics going forward. I have employed many 18-25 year-olds for several decades now, and my observation is that there is a great deal of love for domestic products in this group now. They loved the f-bodies and the GTO and the Mustang, shopped the Cobalt SS and lusted after the Solstice. They bought ( and enjoyed) Jeep after Jeep, and revere the legends of the the Corvette and Viper. They know that real trucks are only built here, and that old Japanese cars can really suck. They also don't make any time for PR BS, they find the sources that will give them the truth.

They may be mercenary, and short on brand loyalty, but they are not the sheeple that their parents have become. The cakewalk that Toyota and Honda have enjoyed is over, the score will begin again at 0-0 over the next few years. The foreign makes will see the percentage of retirees in their demographics increase steadily, but youth will make new choices. Just like each generation before them, they do not want to be their parents.

The next decade in the auto business will be a wild west of change.

Gosh I hope your right, I do see hope. Then again my son was telling me how one girl his age at party made a comment she would never buy or drive an American car, "they suck" she said.

[Robert Hall]

I've worked with a number of Ys (recent college grads) in the last few years in the Denver area and Phoenix area, and AFAIK, 100% of them drive Japanese (Civics, Camrys, a G37, Priuses). Not encouraging.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Camino LS6]

Actually this is one of the best posts you've ever made, and that is saying something. I wonder why everyone here is so threatened by "change" when change and a dynamic marketplace is what drives us to waste time on the interweb BS'ing about cars with each other.

I have noticed the SAME thing in the younger crowd, although Chev. will have to come up with a replacement for the Cobalt SS.

Chris

I don't know if it is one of my best or not, but it is certainly one of my most quoted.

[FAPTurbo]

Plenty of people my age like ol' Detroit iron. The problem is that only until recently, GM's offerings that were likely targeted to people my age were spectacularly craptacular, *cough* G6 GXP *cough*

[Drew Dowdell]

Generation Y is extremely cynical and skeptical with zero brand loyalty. The "everyman" imports will have to actually prove themselves with this group. BMW, Benz and Lexus will still be the fashion accessories they are, but these people aren't going to go out and buy Camrys just because their mom has one. IF anything, that would probably be the biggest mark AGAINST the Camry.... Mom had one.

[Camino LS6]

Generation Y is extremely cynical and skeptical with zero brand loyalty. The "everyman" imports will have to actually prove themselves with this group. BMW, Benz and Lexus will still be the fashion accessories they are, but these people aren't going to go out and buy Camrys just because their mom has one. IF anything, that would probably be the biggest mark AGAINST the Camry.... Mom had one.

Exactly my point.

[regfootball]

Gosh I hope your right, I do see hope. Then again my son was telling me how one girl his age at party made a comment she would never buy or drive an American car, "they suck" she said.

and again my guess is she's never bought a new car at all, likely doesn't even make car payments, possibly may not even have a full time job and other bills.

and is simply going on whatever is fashionable to say.

[FAPTurbo]

I'm not too sure, really. If anything, a lot of this generation are more likely to follow trends. Look at the success of the iPod: the player itself is nothing special when compared to the competition, but because it's stylish, and is regarded as something of a symbol, young people buy it, often without comparing to other brands.

GM is like the Zune, in a lot of cases: it's just as capable, if not, way more, is often cheaper, offers more for less, has a few extra little goodies, and has decent enough looks. But the thing is, well, it doesn't have that 'je ne sais quoi,' like the iPod. The iPod is fashionable, the Zune is more workmanlike. The Domestics are viewed as something for poorer people, or those who are blue-collared. Definitely not true, but that's what I get from talking to people, who are looking to buy cars, or ask about mine.

Just this morning in my economics class, we were discussing the GM situation, and most students in the class believed that GM still builds only gas guzzlers, and that the cars fall apart. The age group in this class is 18-23'ish, and predominantly middle-class, 'west-coast' types, the very people GM needs to target.

Priorities have changed too, I think; now it's all about gizmo's and gadgets. Family friends of mine bought their daughter an Aveo; the daughter didn't care when I said it was a piece of crap, and that the economy was subpar compared to a Cobalt, or Fit - instead, she loved it because it had a six speaker sound system, and she could wire her iPod (which she also bought, despite my saying other units were better ) into it. I think GM missed the boat in that respect, especially when they took their time putting Bluetooth into their vehicles, and not trying to at least ape the funkiness of Scion in a couple ways.

Another thing is that many first car purchases amongst people my age, are used vehicles. Of course, brands like Toyota and Honda have a higher perceived quality. A kid who wants a car will want something that's going to last, and mom's old Toyota Camry, while boring as hell, will get them to A & B, with little trouble. Also, younger people are less able to deal with high gas prices, so a used import is also desirable, because once again, Honda and Toyota are said to get better fuel mileage. While that's not always true, it's what is believed.

The impression I get is: When we want something, we want it now, and doing research is for school. Even then, Wikipedia is all anyone my age is going to look at.