Will Delphi, UAW and GM work together

[avant1963]

Rick Wagoner pretty much hits the nail on the head, there’s nothing to gain and everything to lose if Delphi strikes next year. While no one can be happy with the 60% pay cut for Delphi workers (there must be a better salary/benefit combo) and “Steve” Miller comes off as a pretentious ass, only fueling the UAW anger, change in the unions pay and benefit packages are inevitable. A strike by workers would put Delphi down for the count and GM up against the ropes and not change much for the hourly workers. I am not as confident as Wagoner is in this Detroit News piece about Delphi workers not striking, he may be underestimating workers that will be dropped to near poverty levels at $9 an hour. The next few months will be very interesting and will shape the domestic auto industry for the future.

Detroit News Story

[goblue1999]

Rick Wagoner pretty much hits the nail on the head, there’s nothing to gain and everything to lose if Delphi strikes next year.  While no one can be happy with the 60% pay cut for Delphi workers (there must be a better salary/benefit combo) and “Steve” Miller comes off as a pretentious ass, only fueling the UAW anger, change in the unions pay and benefit packages are inevitable.  A strike by workers would put Delphi down for the count and GM up against the ropes and not change much for the hourly workers.  I am not as confident as Wagoner is in this Detroit News piece about Delphi workers not striking, he may be underestimating workers that will be dropped to near poverty levels at $9 an hour.  The next few months will be very interesting and will shape the domestic auto industry for the future.

Detroit News Story

[post="48217"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

While Steve Miller's style is not fully appreciated by the UAW, to the investment community and to others with a stake in the success of the American Automotive industry, he is a breath of fresh air.

Steve tells it like it is, and makes it clear that market forces should dictate wages and benefits, not group coersion, as engendered by the UAW.

[steamer]

I've had intense dealings with the UAW when I worked for GM, and it will take nothing short of an act of God to get them to be cooperative with future contract talks, despite the losses of recent. Many of the represented employees scream grievance when they are even looked at cross-eyed, let alone to accept concessions! I'm just glad I'm out of all that now! GM needs help, and I don't think just one person has the answer.

[CARBIZ]

The Act of God will come when the Court orders the contract cancelled. Then the UAW has a choice: strike and possibly bankrupting General Motors and throwing tens of thousands more of their brothers/sisters out of work, or reach a compromise and save both Delphi and GM. We are living in interesting times.

[daves87rs]

I can't see it happening....Delphi builds parts for so many different cars..for different companies....there would be many cars would be affected...

[Cremazie]

I've had intense dealings with the UAW when I worked for GM, and it will take nothing short of an act of God to get them to be cooperative with future contract talks, despite the losses of recent.

Many of the represented employees scream grievance when they are even looked at cross-eyed, let alone to accept concessions!
  
I'm just glad I'm out of all that now!

GM needs help, and I don't think just one person has the answer.

[post="48766"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You cannot Grieve an agreement, but you can grieve a for someone doing the wrong thing.

Nobody will work for $9/hr that is at delphi now, they would rather strike until the company is done. You can make that wage flipping burgers at McDonalds. No way should Delphi workers have to work for less than $15/hr. Edited November 26, 2005 by Cremazie

[Ghost Dog]

There was a story a week ago or so, that GM was bargainig with the U.A.W. on a buyout for some Delphi employees. The condition being that the Delphi employees not strike. I'm not sure the U.A.W. could make that promise. Those left behind by that deal might act without approval. If GM takes all that liability off of Delphi. Then I think the remaining workers. (most of whom would already be at a lower Hr.rate) Should have there wages honored by Miller for the last year and a half of the C.B.A. Edited November 26, 2005 by Ghost Dog

[Guest buickman]

There will be a strike by Delphi and it may spread to GM. Fault Wagoner for his failure to produce a strategy of increased sales and profit. The hourly workers are not to blame for GM's demise. Management is inherently responsible for the company's direction and they are the ones who should be held accountable. I believe the union should strike until Wagoner is replaced and the workers gain representation on the Board.

[thegriffon]

You mean like at UAL?

Delphi workers will not have to work for $9 an hour. It is meant to make the UAW see how serious things are, not be the definitive offer. It may have gone too far, but I doubt if the UAW refuses to negotiate that it will be the figure Miller takes to the brankruptcy court.

The UAW and previous GM management (not Wagoner) are to blame for GM's troubles, by setting up an unsustainable structure of generous retirement, health and layoff benefits, exacerbated by the massive increases in healthcare costs. Social Security faces the same structural problems, and you can't blame any recent president or congress for that.

GM has made apparent mistakes (discount pricing for one), but they are hamstrung by market perception, consumer and dealer demands (like Red Tag) and the aforesaid structural problems.

[Angry Dad]

Nobody will work for $9/hr that is at delphi now, they would rather strike until the company is done. You can make that wage flipping burgers at McDonalds. No way should Delphi workers have to work for less than $15/hr.

You can't milk a dead cow.

If Delphi workers can make as much at McDonalds as they can now, go, don't let the door hit them on the way out.

What pissess me off the most about this story is the catering to stupidity being done by the UAW chief. Unlike the workers on the press or at the broom, there is competition for good executives. Stop trying to anger the boobs at the bottom by constantly refering to executive salary. Or is it as bad as it can be for these idiots running the UAW, that they have absolutely no rational for the wages and dues? Has anybody made any effort to justify the wages already paid to line workers or is it so out of line with the competition it is totally indefensable?

[goblue1999]

I can't see it happening....Delphi builds parts for so many different cars..for different companies....there would be many cars would be affected...

[post="48787"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Good point.

If the Delphi Union "workers" want to have any future, they will have to keep supplying their customers with quality product while they negotiate their future with their benevolent employer.

Non-GM customers will drop Delphi so fast, their bobble heads will spin.

[gmbuoy]

At Delphi they are making 27 plus benefits, Miller offers 10 plus some benefits, industry average is 16 to 17 plus some benefits for parts makers... Prediction: last minute settlement for 16 to 17 with an incredibly complicated statement on the benefit package which no one will understand till long after it is approved. The UAW leadership lives through this one only to face GM in 07 for the rest of the marbles.

[Cremazie]

You can't milk a dead cow.

If Delphi workers can make as much at McDonalds as they can now, go, don't let the door hit them on the way out.

What pissess me off the most about this story is the catering to stupidity being done by the UAW chief. Unlike the workers on the press or at the broom, there is competition for good executives. Stop trying to anger the boobs at the bottom by constantly refering to executive salary. Or is it as bad as it can be for these idiots running the UAW, that they have absolutely no rational for the wages and dues? Has anybody made any effort to justify the wages already paid to line workers or is it so out of line with the competition it is totally indefensable?

[post="49070"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You cannot expect someone to take a hit that large tho. I mean $15 would be a cut in half. $9 would be insane.

[SimonDavid]

There was a big article on GM in the editorial page of the London Financial Times last weekend. Key points : - GM's cash cushion of 19billion will last maximum 3 months in event of a strike by Delphi. - GM at the moment is not really a business - it's a social welfare system - No company has ever been refused chapter 11 because they applied too early - Selling good assets (like GMAC) to finance cash burn will only delay the inevitable and make it less likely that a viable business will emerge from Ch11 - Few people really understand the chapter 11 process : The main beneficiaries of chapter 11 will be the retirees (who effectively own the company already as they are the largest claimant on its assets) because it is the only way of preserving a viable business from which to pay their benefits. Shareholders will be the biggest losers as their stock becomes worthless. Bondholders may lose, but then they are losing already as their bonds are rated junk. Employees will lose but then they are also future retirees (in fact many of GM's employees are close to retirement age so really they should be more worried about their pensions than pay rates). - The interests of current management (which effectively includes the UAW) in this matter are clearly not the same as the interests of the company.

[drew770]

You cannot Grieve an agreement, but you can grieve a for someone doing the wrong thing.

Nobody will work for $9/hr that is at delphi now, they would rather strike until the company is done. You can make that wage flipping burgers at McDonalds. No way should Delphi workers have to work for less than $15/hr.

[post="48792"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree!
There is no way Delphi should ask their workers to go down to make $9 an hour!
There is a cost of living Delphi should look at before asking for such concessions. The workers not the union are smart enough to read the paper and watch the news to see how bad Delphi and GM is doing and I am sure that if Delphi would put a reasonable offer on the table it would be considered.

$9 an hour is insulting.
Maybe if Delphi,GM, & Ford's management and workers would march themselves to Washington and sit on the Capital's steps and demand Fair trade and reasonable health care costs controls maybe just maybe these so called politicans of ours would help American Manufactoring.
If we keep going down this path of losing manufactoring jobs we will be a Service Nation full of Burger flippers and taco wrappers!!!

It's time to force our politicans to start working for us!

[Angry Dad]

You cannot expect someone to take a hit that large tho. I mean $15 would be a cut in half. $9 would be insane.

[post="49255"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Explain please, why is Gettlefinger who has the power of the UAW behind him picking a fight with Delphi?

Why isn't this guy using the political clout he has to go to Washington, to go to the other unions and flat out align labor's power to defend his workers and the rest?

Here's the truth though Gettlefinger doesn't get it, the executives running Delphi, GM and the rest really want to see their workers get a good paycheck. It only makes sense. If the workers get paid well, the management gets paid well. Don't bother with the stupid "execs are getting bonuses" explanation, it doesn't hold water.

If I were UAW represented with Delphi I would be far more angry with Gettlefinger than Miller. Gettlefinger has proven himself to be completely inept. At least Miller is playing his cards, Gettlefinger doesn't even know what cards he's got.

[Guest buickman]

GENERAL WATCH NEWS

Reprinted from NewsMax.com

Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 10:21 a.m. EST
GM CEO Secures $4.6 Million Pension


As General Motors slashes jobs, closes plants and battles to avoid bankruptcy, the company’s CEO has set up a retirement plan that will pay him at least $4.6 million a year – nearly twice his current salary.

G. Richard Wagoner, who the New York Post calls "the greediest, most undeserving CEO since Chainsaw Al Dunlap,” was named GM’s chief financial officer in 1992, when the company had a global payroll of 750,000 employees.

Under Wagoner’s command as CFO and, since 2000, CEO, the carmaker has seen its employees dwindle to 324,000.

Now the company has announced plans to cut 30,000 more jobs and close 12 North American plants, and Wagoner is denying rampant rumors that GM is preparing for file for bankruptcy protection.


The carmaker’s pension fund is under-funded by more than $45 billion, according to the Post. But Wagoner has nothing to worry about. He has a Supplemental Executive Retirement Plan, which allows a company to use after-tax dollars "that rightly belong to shareholders to shower riches on the CEO instead,” the Post reports.

Best of all for Wagoner, this payout comes from funds that are separate from those underpinning the retirement programs of ordinary workers, which means he’ll pocket his $4.6 million-plus a year even if GM files for bankruptcy.

News of the CEO’s big pension payday comes after Delphi Corp., GM’s largest parts supplier, collapsed, jeopardizing the pension fund set up for the company’s 30,000 workers.

But the company’s CEO J.T. Battenberg, like Wagoner, won’t face financial hardship after he departs the firm – he walks away with a $1.6 million-a-year retirement package.


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[FUTURE_OF_GM]

EXCELLENT READ!! Oh and as for the UAW.... I'd be willing to bet on a strike. After all, they haven't seen the light after 30 years of loses, so why would they see the light now? REMEMBER: Pride is more important than survival! :rolleyes:

[Angry Dad]

GENERAL WATCH NEWS

Reprinted from NewsMax.com

Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 10:21 a.m. EST
GM CEO Secures $4.6 Million Pension
As General Motors slashes jobs, closes plants and battles to avoid bankruptcy, the company’s CEO has set up a retirement plan that will pay him at least $4.6 million a year – nearly twice his current salary.

G. Richard Wagoner, who the New York Post calls "the greediest, most undeserving CEO since Chainsaw Al Dunlap,” was named GM’s chief financial officer in 1992, when the company had a global payroll of 750,000 employees.

Under Wagoner’s command as CFO and, since 2000, CEO, the carmaker has seen its employees dwindle to 324,000.

Now the company has announced plans to cut 30,000 more jobs and close 12 North American plants, and Wagoner is denying rampant rumors that GM is preparing for file for bankruptcy protection.
The carmaker’s pension fund is under-funded by more than $45 billion, according to the Post. But Wagoner has nothing to worry about. He has a Supplemental Executive Retirement Plan, which allows a company to use after-tax dollars "that rightly belong to shareholders to shower riches on the CEO instead,” the Post reports.

Best of all for Wagoner, this payout comes from funds that are separate from those underpinning the retirement programs of ordinary workers, which means he’ll pocket his $4.6 million-plus a year even if GM files for bankruptcy.

News of the CEO’s big pension payday comes after Delphi Corp., GM’s largest parts supplier, collapsed, jeopardizing the pension fund set up for the company’s 30,000 workers.

But the company’s CEO J.T. Battenberg, like Wagoner, won’t face financial hardship after he departs the firm – he walks away with a $1.6 million-a-year retirement package.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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www.GeneralWatch.com
If you no longer wish to receive mail from Buickman, please visit http://www.generalwatch.com/unsubscribe.cfm and enter your email address . 
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[post="49935"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Please supply a credible source.

Whatever doubts I have about GM and it's management are puny compared to what some people are posting on this board.

[ellives]

Agreed - That newsmax.com article makes no references where the information came from and buickman clearly has an agenda.

Please supply a credible source.

Whatever doubts I have about GM and it's management are puny compared to what some people are posting on this board.

[post="50277"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

[The O.C.]

I've had intense dealings with the UAW when I worked for GM, and it will take nothing short of an act of God to get them to be cooperative with future contract talks, despite the losses of recent.

Many of the represented employees scream grievance when they are even looked at cross-eyed, let alone to accept concessions!

I'm just glad I'm out of all that now!

GM needs help, and I don't think just one person has the answer.

[post="48766"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

That's why, like Evok said, this Delphi/UAW battle is pivotal in shaping the future of U.S. domestic automobile manufacturing.

U.S. manufacturers and suppliers simply cannot continue business pacifying their unions with outrageous wages and benefits, etc. The marketplace simply demands that big changes take place.

Rest assured.....the UAW WILL compromise....and WILL fall in line with Delphi's (and later...GM, and Ford's) demands.....whether they like it or not. No one is denying that forcing THAT big of a pay cut will severly impact the quality of life of those UAW workers.....but it's something that HAS to happen....or the Big3 and their suppliers such as Delphi and Visteon are NO MORE.

They WILL compromise....or there will be no more UAW. Rest assured the companies will survive. They will do what it takes to be competitive.....and it WILL get extremely bloody.

[Flybrian]

I'm sorry, but that post reminded me of the Toyota WiLL

[The O.C.]

At Delphi they are making 27 plus benefits, Miller offers 10 plus some benefits, industry average is 16 to 17 plus some benefits for parts makers... Prediction: last minute settlement for 16 to 17 with an incredibly complicated statement on the benefit package which no one will understand till long after it is approved.
The UAW leadership lives through this one only to face GM in 07 for the rest of the marbles.

[post="49253"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I think you are wrong.....if I remember correctly, Evok stated the supplier industry average was $11-$12/hour.....and if ANYONE is an industry insider, it's Evok.

Delphi came in with $9/hour I believe.....and Evok thinks that Delphi would probably settle at $15/hour....but not a penny more.....

[Ghost Dog]

I think you are wrong.....if I remember correctly, Evok stated the supplier industry average was $11-$12/hour.....and if ANYONE is an industry insider, it's Evok.

Delphi came in with $9/hour I believe.....and Evok thinks that Delphi would probably settle at $15/hour....but not a penny more.....

[post="60067"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

And I don't think that will get it done.

Best case scenario. GM Buys out the oldtimers. The Current entry wage becomes rate. Employees pay a share of thier healthcare. Employees not bought out by GM get 401k instead of pension. Current pensioners are untouched.

[evok]

I have spoken to someone a week ago Friday, that is familiar with the situation and that appears to be what will come about.

[evok]

And I don't think that  will get it done. 

Best case scenario. GM Buys out the oldtimers. The Current entry wage becomes rate. Employees pay a share of thier healthcare. Employees not bought out by GM get 401k instead of pension. Current pensioners are  untouched.

[post="60086"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

There will be more of a compromise, and I agree with that.

[razoredge]

Do the auto workers have pay tiers ? Or is it like an apprenticeship where they start low and then once they have established thenselfs they get rate and there is only one rate ?

Im just more fimiliar with the contruction Unions, rate is rate in most cases and everyone once established get it. Equipment operators have differnt levels of skill so there is a few rates there with Crane rate being the Cadillac.

The reason I ask this is, if there is different pay levels, according to years of service then these 30 year people would be the ones at that high 25 or 27 rate? If so getting these people to take their retirement as well as draining the job banks seems like it would save a fortune over the course of a few years. Without insulting and worse yet destroying the lives of workers that have 10-15-20-25 years vested.

I guess this is not Delphis problem though, theirs is far worse, especially being to the point where it is in the hands of an evil, ruthless, could care less multi billionaire who has stolen a multi billionaire life style by destroying businesses and creating human wastelands across America.

Seems to me the writting is on the wall for Delphi. 9 buck is not near poverty it is below poverty. Your in poverty at 12 bucks possibly even at 14, Im not sure, I havent looked it up in awhile. You cant get anywhere with your workforce if your going to stand there and tell them you want to send them to the trailor parks, because some old rice farmers in China are willing to work for meals and a bench to sleep on. Didnt anyone else ever read Good Earth ? I thought here in America we had progressed from that kind of life and lifestyle, now we must compete against it ?

Im not denying any of the serious problems involved with the UAW's package. Id think cleaning it up first would be far more mature that blowing in, making huge generous packages for the destructionests, and then offer your workforce enough weekly pay to live on penutbutter and jelly and pay the lot rent at the local trailer park.

$16 per hour on a 40 hour week isnt much of a paycheck in todays American economy. Which isnt the global economy in case some may have some kind of misunderstanding of economys

So my question is, knowing a bit of the story from both sides. Are any of these powers that be serious about takeing care of the problems we are facing in America or are they just going to blow it off because their making the big buck and they cant see it from their house?

This is much larger than : "this Delphi/UAW battle is pivotal in shaping the future of U.S. domestic automobile manufacturing". This is about America as a whole and how low are we going to lower our people to appease the rest of the world......or worse yet a bunch of crazed daily traders that offer no contribution to socioty - WHATSOEVER! Edited December 18, 2005 by razoredge

[Croc]

No, this has little to do with day traders. If this were about day traders, there would be no Buick, Saturn, HUMMER, or SAAB.

[Ghost Dog]

Delphi has had tiered pay since this contract Started.

“In April 2004, the UAW agreed with Delphi that $14 per hour was a competitive wage” in the auto parts industry as part of a two-tier pay deal negotiated in the 2003 contrac

Edited December 18, 2005 by Ghost Dog

[razoredge]

No, this has little to do with day traders.  If this were about day traders, there would be no Buick, Saturn, HUMMER, or SAAB.

[post="60179"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:lol: :rolleyes:

"This is about America as a whole and how low are we going to lower our people"

where did I say "this" was about day traders ?

"there would be no Buick, Saturn, HUMMER, or SAAB."

yarite - then there would be Chevy and Cadillac........the two divisions that got all the heat for some really poor design and engineering late 70's - 80's and still today at Chevy.

If you cant think outside dont make assumptions about the meanings of some of my statements or that they are directly related to some tiny picture. Because they are most likey never related to the little story. And this is certainly no little story. Its a big fat extremely important moment in N. American history, and its problems are not only rooted as deep as one player.

Go Large !

[razoredge]

Delphi has had tiered pay since this contract Started. Entry I think is 15-18.

[post="60182"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

So how many tiers ?

and

do certian skill areas, say such as mechinist or others have a higher rate, ect. ?

Im just trying to get a better understanding of how that pay is laid out.

Everyone seems to grab that high number and imbed that to memory. Then thats all we hear about. Like the $8o,ooo per year.

[Croc]

What it really is about is keeping the pay to match the skills. Obviously McDonalds doesn't pay living wages, but then again you don't need any skills to work there.

[razoredge]

What it really is about is keeping the pay to match the skills.  Obviously McDonalds doesn't pay living wages, but then again you don't need any skills to work there.

[post="60411"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

So in that case you'll be working for crap shovelers wages because that seems to be your only "skill" ?

If this were the case with pay through out this country, everyone would be working for alot less. Many as much as 100 times less, perhaps a few, a MILLION times less !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!