Should Pontiac make a 4-cylinder G6 Coupe?

[ToniCipriani]

Then compare it to a base 97 grand am. 150hp quad 4, 0-60 in 7.8 seconds. And my window sticker says $14,000.

[post="50353"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You forgot to take into consideration inflation. $14k in 1996 isn't $14k now.

[Cory Wolfe]

From the GM Media site, that the G6 V6 is actually only 83lbs heavier than the Malibu LT.

In theory, assuming the 2.4L is around the same as the 2.2L in weight, that would be around 120lbs difference, engine alone.

Therefore, the power-to-weight ratios (lower is better):

G6 4-cyl (est.) - 3380 - 120 / 167 = 19.5 lbs/hp

Malibu LS 2.2L - 3174 /144 = 22.0 lbs/hp

1995 Grand Am SE (3100 V6, couldn't find Quad4) -  2840 / 155 = 18.3 lbs/hp

First, I must say... I was using the G6 GT's weight which is around 3500 and is geared more aggressively. That has been my example throughout this entire thread. Yes, the extra weight equates to the extra equipment it has, but it is faster even with the extra weight. It has poor performance as it is... 8 seconds to 60. That is terrible. The last Grand Am GT (99-04) went to 60 in only 7.8 seconds... some data says 7.7 secs. It had only 175hp and it weighed about 3100-3200. (I also want to add that it handled much better... about .79 or .8gs compared to .82gs :AH-HA_wink: ) Now... my GA weighs about 2800lbs (and the stats I have say that GA you pointed out weighs about 2900lbs) and has 150hp. I think it has something like 155 lb/ft torque. You can't factor out torque, which the 2.4L Ecotec isn't strong in. Gearing, too. :P

So the GA SE IS slightly quicker, but you can't compare this ratio alone. Materials and safety standards are completely different between the years.  Other things such as safety standards, the GA is no match to the G6.  Also, it's unfair to compare a GA GT directly with the base G6. Selling price of a GA GT when brand new is nowhere as low as a G6 base.

Again... I'm not talking about safety and sh!t like that. Performance and performance ONLY. I mean... no f**king sh!t the G6 blows the GA away in safety. That's a given and it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Duh...

But what really gets me is why I can't compare my GAGT to a base G6? Yeah... there's the price difference but it's the same engine that was in the SE (aka: "base") Grand Am. Same gearing unlike the 3500 in the G6 base and GT. Actually the SE is alot lighter because of the lack of as much cladding and once again equipment. Unlike the G6, the main difference between the trims were styling and handling. So... the SE should be faster in a straight line. Hmm...

And again, read my original post. I said it was a stopgap vehicle until a new coupe arrives, or maybe let it stay if it sells. The G6 is the smallest coupe Pontiac has right now, the availablility is just to boost sales, and to add affordability. People wanting more power can always pay more.

GM shouldn't even consider stopgap vehicles... Especially in this do or die time. Come on...

[Cory Wolfe]

Then compare it to a base 97 grand am. 150hp quad 4, 0-60 in 7.8 seconds. And my window sticker says $14,000.

[post="50353"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You forgot to take into consideration inflation. $14k in 1996 isn't $14k now.

[post="50363"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Inflation, my ass... You said base, he gave you the base for a 97 Grand Am. It is in everyway possible, comparable to a base 06 G6. Hello?!?!?!? :blink:

Also, according that book I have, the base price for my GA GT was $14,854. No, I had no reason to bring that up. Yes, it is irrelavant. Shoot me. :P

[z28luvr01]

Smartass... :P The headgasket won't blow, but the knocking might kill it... :lol: :D
Of course... It will still weigh more than a Malibu with the 2.2, though. The increase of horsepower with the 2.4 will most likely even it. Still... it's a Pontiac. It may be okay for a Chevy, but a Pontiac? You and everyone else have got to be kidding me. Not only is it overlapping which many like to bash and end up supporting the PBG merger because of that... it's a Pontiac for Christ's sake. No Pontiac should be the equivilent of a Chevy. It should be above one. This... this wouldn't be and just continues to ruin the General. I'm disgusted and appalled you guys like this idea... Do you want to see Pontiac die? What about GM? I swear you guys do and all I say doesn't compute with your minds. It may be a bit extreme to think that way but I can tell you one thing that is for sure: It isn't helping either. I hope you guys realize that.

*shakes head*

[post="50346"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

A 4cyl G6 coupe will not kill Pontiac any more than the Torrent and SV6 are killing it now. Nor would it kill it any more than that Cobalt-posing-as-a-Pontiac Pursuit would if it were to come to the US. Pontiac is in the unfortunate position of needing sales any way it can get them in order to justify its existence. As much as I don't like the Torrent/SV6, they're serving a purpose for Pontiac right now. They won't be needed when the B-P-G consolidation is complete. Thinking along these lines there's an excellent business case for a 4cyl G6 coupe: It would take minimal investment on GM's part, and its pricing would surely help it swipe more than a few Accord/Solara buyers. The G6 GT coupe as it is competes well with the Accord 4cyl coupe. A 4cyl G6 coupe would surely undercut it by no less than a couple of thousand.

[Cory Wolfe]

And your point is... :P I don't really care what purpose it would serve. It's still a terrible idea and just the fact that it would be taking a step back in performance makes wonder what the hell happened. I thought GM was supposed to be moving foward? No? But that wouldn't be moving foward, now would it? I didn't think so. It would be a disgrace to the Pontiac name moreso than any Grand Am, Sunfire, Aztek, or other Pontiac people like to bitch about. Just as the Montana is a disgrace. The Torrent is too but, literally, in this SUV obsessed country we live in, I actually can see a purpose for it even though it, too, is a disgrace. Hell... Pontiac's lineup is just full of disgraces... F**k it. Let's just make it worse than it already is... :rolleyes: Edited November 30, 2005 by blackviper8891

[Chicagoland]

Gas is not cheap anymore, and Pontiac is not a company that "makes" cars, they SELL what GM makes. Not everyone wants a race car, and CAFE is still the law of the car sales fleet. The real world couldn't care less about Pontiac's image being "ruined" by a 4 cylinder car. It would sell, and the sun would still come up tomorrow. Back in the 1960's 'glory days', Pontiac actually sold more station wagons, sedans, and 6 cylinder cars than the GTO's. Some don't understand BUSINESS. You need to have bread and butter to sell, to support the desserts.

[Cory Wolfe]

Gas is not cheap anymore, and Pontiac is not a company that "makes" cars, they SELL what GM makes. Not everyone wants a race car, and CAFE is still the law of the car sales fleet.

The real world couldn't care less about Pontiac's image being "ruined" by a 4 cylinder car. It would sell, and the sun would still come up tomorrow.

Back in the 1960's 'glory days', Pontiac actually sold more station wagons, sedans, and 6 cylinder cars than the GTO's. Some don't understand BUSINESS. You need to have bread and butter to sell, to support the desserts.

[post="50428"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No offense, but are you being sarcastic or just retarded? :blink:

"Gas is not cheap anymore, and Pontiac is not a company that "makes" cars, they SELL what GM makes." No... Really? I did not know that... I thought Pontiac made they're own cars... I mean... I just love the DOHC V10 powered Fiero on the Pizzi platform that sells for $12,980. I'm going to buy one someday. Yep. :mellow:

"The real world couldn't care less about Pontiac's image being "ruined" by a 4 cylinder car. It would sell, and the sun would still come up tomorrow." Yep. That's why Pontiac outsells Honda in California... :huh: They just don't care about Pontiac's image, do they?

"Back in the 1960's 'glory days', Pontiac actually sold more station wagons, sedans, and 6 cylinder cars than the GTO's." But... But I thought Pontiac sold about 2,400,000 GTOs in 64, alone, compared to only 12,000 for the rest of Pontiac vehicles in the entire decade of the 60s. :unsure:

"Some don't understand BUSINESS. You need to have bread and butter to sell, to support the desserts." Really? I always thought you could be the number 1 selling brand in America with only niche vehicles... Guess I wrong... Wow. :o

So... which is it? Sarcastic or Retarded? Right now I'm leaning towards one very heavily. What I just wrote is filled with the other. Hope I didn't give away my opinion...

Anyways, you're basically saying Pontiac should just be a brand filled with a bunch rebadges and sales toppers with a few niche vehicles... You know... because that's what will truly return Pontiac to greatness: a bunch of ho-hum vehicles that are underpowered and overweight. Perfect! I'll alert the presses of your wonderful idea! -_-

[Cory Wolfe]

Sudden thought... "Not everyone wants a race car, and CAFE is still the law of the car sales fleet." Huh... I didn't know wanting a car that can outrun my POS 95 Grand Am is wanting a race car. Wow... I'm highly appreciative of how you think my Quad4 powered GA is a race car. Want to buy this race car? C&G Member's special is only $500. That race car will outrun G6s with the 3500! Ohh-weee! Better snatch this steal before someone else does!

[Flybrian]

He makes a few valid points, so...I don't see where the hostility comes from...

[avro206]

This thread kills me! :P Its not like a 1.6L 4cly would be put in coupes. Secondly its already in the 4 door-----so why all fuss over a 2 door? Honda Accords come in a 2 dr 4 cly. Unfortunately man does not live by aceleration alone. Most of on this board love power ect but the average person does not place such a high priority on it. So you cannot realistically expect GM to do the same. But thats what the Z06's, G6 GTP, Cobalt S/C SSs are for. US! The car nuts. Rest of the cars and engines are for non car people. They want a nice ride, a modest amount of power and good gas mileage. A G6 coupe with the 2.4L Ecotec sounds like it can fullfill that, no problem. If GM can boost sales by offering the coupe with the 2.4L Ecootec----then they should try. They NEED to sell all the cars they can these days. And an FYI---the 2.4L Ecotec is a very good engine. It has more torque down low then the peak numbers suggest. So try to objectively read my post and then insist that its wrong to put the 2.4L Ecotec in the coupe. And if you want to talk about bad power to weight ratios, H3 is king. 4800lbs (give or take) 220hp= 21.8lbs per hp! ugh!

[Cory Wolfe]

Hostility? :lol: I just used sarcasm to show why his post was about as relevant as me talking about gay dog. Oops, my bad. Didn't mean to sound hostile but my love of Pontiac overpowers many things. When I feel that it is being threatened by stupid ideas or total retardation and other stuff like that, I like to make it obvious. As far as I'm concerned... I'm the Pontiac fanatic, don't try to tell me what Pontiac needs. Again, I'm sorry if that displeases members, but it's fun. Really fun. I love to use sarcasm. I mean, it's not my fault there are alot of rediculous thoughts in this thread... :D Oops, did it again, Sorry.

[avro206]

Lets take a moment and disect the 95 Qaud 4: 150 hp at 6000 rpm and 145 lb.-ft. at 4800 rpm now the 2.4L Ecotec in G6 application 167hp at 6300 rpm and 163 lb.-ft @4500rpm More power down low and up high. A broader power band! 1995 was about the worst year for the Quad 4---for power that is. They nutered it with balance shafts and the hp and redline plumeted. I had a road test from Car and Driver, I believe. It was 9.0 to 60mph and 17.0 in the 1/4 mile. I'd bet money that a 5 speed G6 2.4L Ecotec could beat those numbers. The VVT really helps the midrange torque curve. Viper---if your looking for a replacement for you GA---the G6 is not the answer. It has grown up and is a much biggger car then the 95 Grand Am. Look at the 2.4L Cobalt SS! I have one--and I raced a Beretta GTZ HO QUAD 4. And I beat him by 0.5 sec and 3-4 mph. I do see your point about the slowness og the G6 GT VS the 99-04 Grand Am GT. My wife has an 00 and I do find it stupid the G6 GT is slower.

[Cory Wolfe]

This thread kills me! :P

Its not like a 1.6L 4cly would be put in coupes. Secondly its already in the 4 door-----so why all fuss over a 2 door?

Honda Accords come in a 2 dr 4 cly.

Unfortunately man does not live by aceleration alone. Most of on this board love power ect but the average person does not place such a high priority on it.

So you cannot realistically expect GM to do the same. But thats what the Z06's, G6 GTP, Cobalt S/C SSs are for. US! The car nuts.

Rest of the cars and engines are for non car people. They want a nice ride, a modest amount of power and good gas mileage. A G6 coupe with the 2.4L Ecotec sounds like it can fullfill that, no problem.

If GM can boost sales by offering the coupe with the 2.4L Ecootec----then they should try. They NEED to sell all the cars they can these days.

And an FYI---the 2.4L Ecotec is a very good engine. It has more torque down low then the peak numbers suggest.

So try to objectively read my post and then insist that its wrong to put the 2.4L Ecotec in the coupe.

[post="50476"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I objectively read your post... and I have to say... What is so wrong with wanting a car that can outrun my 95 Grand Am? Honestly? I have the smallest engine offered for 95, yet it can outrun all but the biggest engine available in G6s? Do any of you guys not see a problem with that? Honestly? If you ask me... that is f**ked up. If any of you insist otherwise... Guess what. You are a f**king retard. Ask me and I will tell you. Please do. I love calling people that... Please fulfill my desires.

*takes out gun* *blows head off*

[CaddyXLR-V]

Whats the point of having 9 different brands if they are all going to be doing the same thing, and be equally as slow as each other? What next? We can all look forward to the car that replaces the G6. It will be 3800lbs, with a 175hp 4cyl as the base engine. Hey it has more power than in 2005 so who cares. The 4cyl would be fine if the car still weighed 3000lbs, but it doesnt. Even my 01 Grand Am GT only weighs I think 3070lbs. And look what a performance image did for Nissan. I thought nobody cared about performance?

[Cory Wolfe]

Lets take a moment and disect the 95 Qaud 4:

150 hp at 6000 rpm and 145 lb.-ft. at 4800 rpm

now the 2.4L Ecotec in G6 application

167hp at 6300 rpm and 163 lb.-ft @4500rpm

More power down low and up high. A broader power band!
1995 was about the worst year for the Quad 4---for power that is. They nutered it with balance shafts and the hp and redline plumeted.

I had a road test from Car and Driver, I believe. It was 9.0 to 60mph and 17.0 in the 1/4 mile.

I'd bet money that a 5 speed G6 2.4L Ecotec could beat those numbers. The VVT really helps the midrange torque curve.

Viper---if your looking for a replacement for you GA---the G6 is not the answer. It has grown up and is a much biggger car then the 95 Grand Am.

Look at the 2.4L Cobalt SS! I have one--and I raced a Beretta GTZ HO QUAD 4.
And I beat him by 0.5 sec and 3-4 mph.

I do see your point about the slowness og the G6 GT VS the 99-04 Grand Am GT.
My wife has an 00 and I do find it stupid the G6 GT is slower.

[post="50494"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Oh... I know 95 was the worst year for the Quad4. However, 9 secs to 60 and 17 secs to 1/4mi sounds oddly off. C&D never liked GAs anyways... but my GA is faster than that. Maybe its the K&N air filter it has... F**k it, I'm selling it anyways. Why should I bother to defend it when it's not running perfectly?

Anyways, I'm not even thinking about replacing it with a G6. First off, I can't afford a GTP which is the only G6 worth getting considering the less than spectacular performance of the rest. Second, I think I'd rather get another POS GA. Yeah... they're already faster than 2/3 G6s. Probably a HO Quad4. Third, I'm not really interesting in getting a Pontiac at the moment. You see... I need something reliable and the Pontiacs that I can afford are nothing near that.

As for the Cobalt... No surprise there since it's relatively light. Can't afford nor want one anyways. Edited November 30, 2005 by blackviper8891

[Cory Wolfe]

*edit* Sorry. Edited November 30, 2005 by blackviper8891

[Cory Wolfe]

Whats the point of having 9 different brands if they are all going to be doing the same thing, and be equally as slow as each other?
What next? We can all look forward to the car that replaces the G6.  It will be 3800lbs, with a 175hp 4cyl as the base engine. Hey it has more power than in 2005 so who cares.

The 4cyl would be fine if the car still weighed 3000lbs, but it doesnt. Even my 01 Grand Am GT only weighs I think 3070lbs.
And look what a performance image did for Nissan. I thought nobody cared about performance?

[post="50498"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thank You! I'm not the only one with any sanity anymore... I thought I was going to go insane at the lack sanity in this thread. It's about time. Thank you! Thank you! THANK YOU! You are my hero.

[AM6_Cutlass]

There should definately be a G6 coupe with a 4-cyl. Face it, the G6 coupe is not selling. I have not seen one on the road yet, they need to do all they can to increase its appeal (including replacing the 2+2 configuration with a real back seat) In fact, the Grand AM coupe did not seem to sell that well after they got rid of the SE trim either. You can get an Accord coupe with a four, so why not a Pontiac?

[ponchoman49]

First, I must say... I was using the G6 GT's weight which is around 3500 and is geared more aggressively. That has been my example throughout this entire thread. Yes, the extra weight equates to the extra equipment it has, but it is faster even with the extra weight. It has poor performance as it is... 8 seconds to 60. That is terrible. The last Grand Am GT (99-04) went to 60 in only 7.8 seconds... some data says 7.7 secs. It had only 175hp and it weighed about 3100-3200. (I also want to add that it handled much better... about .79 or .8gs compared to .82gs :AH-HA_wink: ) Now... my GA weighs about 2800lbs (and the stats I have say that GA you pointed out weighs about 2900lbs) and has 150hp. I think it has something like 155 lb/ft torque. You can't factor out torque, which the 2.4L Ecotec isn't strong in. Gearing, too. :P
Again... I'm not talking about safety and sh!t like that. Performance and performance ONLY. I mean... no f**king sh!t the G6 blows the GA away in safety. That's a given and it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Duh...

But what really gets me is why I can't compare my GAGT to a base G6? Yeah... there's the price difference but it's the same engine that was in the SE (aka: "base") Grand Am. Same gearing unlike the 3500 in the G6 base and GT. Actually the SE is alot lighter because of the lack of as much cladding and once again equipment. Unlike the G6, the main difference between the trims were styling and handling. So... the SE should be faster in a straight line. Hmm...
GM shouldn't even consider stopgap vehicles... Especially in this do or die time. Come on...

[post="50375"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The 99-02 grand AMs had the 2.4 Quad 4 vin code "T". The 03-04 versions were vin code "F" 2.2 liter Ecotec. That 2.4 Quad 4 put out 150 hp and 155 torque, not 175 hp! The Ecotec made 140 hp and 150 torque. The 1995 2.3 liter Quad 4 put out 150 hp and 145 torque, less than even the smaller 2.2 Ecotec. HPP magazine tested a fully loaded G6 GT with every conceivable option including Panaramic roof, leather, XM, Onstar etc with the 3500 and 3.29:1 gears and got 7.5 seconds 0-60 not 8 seconds like your saying. Thats faster than any 99-05 GA GT ever got with it's lower output 175 hp 3400. I used to beat non ram air GA GT's with my 3800 Grand Prix with 3.29:1 gears and that car was rated at 7.8 seconds! So much for these cars duplicating these times. And the only G6 that weights 3500 lbs is the fully loaded 4 door GT version with heavier Panaoramic roof. So thus a 2 door coupe with lighter 2.4 can't possibly weight 3500 lbs. Even a retard can see this! Besides your so called wonder car that supposedly does 7.8 seconds to 60 has a STICKSHIFT not an automatic like the current G6 2.4. Put a 6 speed manual behind that car with 3.92:1 gears and your GA will get beat. I have driven 1995 GA 2.3's with stick and they certainly don't go 0- 60 in 7.8 seconds. They had balance shafts starting that year that restricted high RPM for smoothness and quietness. It also dramatically lowered output fom the 175-195 hp Quad 4 days along with torque. They felt far more like 8.8- 9.0 seconds to me and that was supported as I routinely blew the doors off 1995 2.3 GA GT's with sticks with my 1996 3100 powered automatic Corsica that did 8.1 seconds to 60.

Back to our normal topic post: yes the 2007 G6 should be available with a 2.4 Ecotec and 6 speed stick or automatic in the coupe for people that want a fun 2-door car that doesn't suck gas like a GTP 18/26 auto, 18/27 stick. Just get a few more horses out of it like 172 as in the HHR or 177 as in the Soltice and it will perform fine.

[The O.C.]

I can't believe this thread has gone on for 4 pages! I didn't read all the posts......but this seems to be a pretty clear-cut issue..... A 4cyl G6 Coupe is a natural in the marketplace......will give the buyer more choice, will improve GM's CAFE fuel economy numbers, will give the buyer a more economical choice in these days of higher gas prices, and with 170hp, will be a more-than-decent performer in its own right. Accord coupes with 4cyls are peppy and responsive.....so are Solara coupes actually.... What's all the debate? I don't get it?

[Cory Wolfe]

Alright... first off, don't act like I'm a retard and don't words into my mouth. Now to address your points...

The 99-02 grand AMs had the 2.4 Quad 4 vin code "T". The 03-04 versions were vin code "F" 2.2 liter Ecotec. That 2.4 Quad 4 put out 150 hp and 155 torque, not 175 hp! The Ecotec made 140 hp and 150 torque. The 1995 2.3 liter Quad 4 put out 150 hp and 145 torque, less than even the smaller 2.2 Ecotec. Of course... they're also lighter, if you haven't forgotten. More horsepower is overruled by more weight. HPP magazine tested a fully loaded G6 GT with every conceivable option including Panaramic roof, leather, XM, Onstar etc with the 3500 and 3.29:1 gears and got 7.5 seconds 0-60 not 8 seconds like your saying. I'm going by MT test data with the same car. C&D's is similar, therefore HPP's is flawed as far as I'm concerned. Thats faster than any 99-05 GA GT ever got with it's lower output 175 hp 3400. I used to beat non ram air GA GT's with my 3800 Grand Prix with 3.29:1 gears and that car was rated at 7.8 seconds!  So much for these cars duplicating these times. Again, that is magazine test data, this time from C&D as I couldn't find any from MT. And the only G6 that weights 3500 lbs is the fully loaded 4 door GT version with heavier Panaoramic roof.  So thus a 2 door coupe with lighter 2.4 can't possibly weight 3500 lbs. Even a retard can see this! Of course, but that is besides the point. It will still be a porky car for a 4cyl. It needs a diet. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Besides your so called wonder car that supposedly does 7.8 seconds to 60 has a STICKSHIFT not an automatic like the current G6 2.4. Put a 6 speed manual behind that car with 3.92:1 gears and your GA will get beat. I have driven 1995 GA 2.3's with stick and they certainly don't go 0- 60 in 7.8 seconds. They had balance shafts starting that year that restricted high RPM for smoothness and quietness. It also dramatically lowered output fom the 175-195 hp Quad 4 days along with torque. They felt far more like 8.8- 9.0 seconds to me and that was supported as I routinely blew the doors off 1995 2.3 GA GT's with sticks with my 1996 3100 powered automatic Corsica that did 8.1 seconds to 60. Did I say my car did 0-60 in 7.8? No, CaddyXLR did. His Grand Am had the extensively updated Quad4 bumped to 2.4L and renamed Twin Cam. That is the rating for his car from, you guessed it, a magazine like above. I know my GA couldn't possibly acheive that. Besides, mine isn't completely stock. It does have a K&N air filter and I did notice that the exhaust is not OE. It's faster than 8.8-9.0 secs to 60. Also, the 175-190hp Quad4 were the HO versions, which, are obviously different than regular Quad4s. That and the 185, and earlier rated as 190hp version was only available in the Olds Achieva SCX. The 175, and earlier rated as 180hp were given to Grand Ams (and others).

Anyways, you've told me nothing I didn't already know and I've actually had to correct you in some instances. A waste of a post if you ask me. What was your point again? To somehow prove Pontiac needs a car slower than my Grand Am? The supposed Excitement Division? That wouldn't be too exciting... would it? :rolleyes:

I love 4cyls and would love to see the G6 get one, but some things need done. First of all, it needs a power boost to atleast 180hp. Second, it needs atleast a 5spd manual and auto transmissions, no 4spds. Third, it needs to loose some weight until it weighs at most 3100lbs, preferably around 3000lbs. Fourth... it's some styling enhancements. Too bland and too weird for Pontiac and Import lovers alike. Edited January 10, 2006 by blackviper8891

[Cory Wolfe]

Also, I'd just like to note that my GA is a piece of shit. Now take it off my hands for me... :D

[ponchoman49]

Anyways, you've told me nothing I didn't already know and I've actually had to correct you in some instances. A waste of a post if you ask me. What was your point again? To somehow prove Pontiac needs a car slower than my Grand Am? The supposed Excitement Division? That wouldn't be too exciting... would it? :rolleyes:

I love 4cyls and would love to see the G6 get one, but some things need done. First of all, it needs a power boost to atleast 180hp. Second, it needs atleast a 5spd manual and auto transmissions, no 4spds. Third, it needs to loose some weight until it weighs at most 3100lbs, preferably around 3000lbs. Fourth... it's some styling enhancements. Too bland and too weird for Pontiac and Import lovers alike.

[post="71228"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Whats the matter Viper, nervous that I know my specs better and that I don't always need to go by what Honda & Driver says. My Grand Prix did 7.8 seconds by not only a stopwatch but also a G-force. The rating was used to support my case, nothing more. HPP magazine tested there car with some break in miles unlike Honda & Driver and Toyota Trend that test green cars from GM so as to give them worse numbers so I would bet HPP numbers are far closer to reality. Your telling me nothing that I don't know about the high output engines. The point I made was that GM only had detuned balance shaft Quad 4 bangers available from 95 onwards on the GA. Obviously they were high output with higher hp numbers. And you are the one saying that your car will blow away any G6 that has a 4 banger in it with your tired quad 4 and you can keep up with a 3500 G6. Thats where I assumed you were agreeing on the 7.8 second time on you 95 GA. Again, a 4 cylinder powered G6 coupe will NOT, repeat not weight 3500 lbs. And with a stick will whoop your beat GA's ass. I would bet money on it. My post was not a waste, it was just intended to correct all the mistakes you made with hp numbers, cars you could beat with you wasted GA and uninformed bias on what the general public wants in these high gas price times. Just because you think everything should have a race car engine in it that costs well over 20 grand doesn't mean thats what the public wants too! Oh and btw, my bud and I test drove a $17990 special G6 with it's lethargic 2.4 Ecotec with but 200 miles and stopwatched it at 8.5 seconds to 60 several times. Going by that number, fully broken in versions would likey beat that by a few more tenths, a 6 speed stick from the GTP would definately improve things even further and the coupe would weight slightly less that the sedan we drove. So much for your theory of whooping a 4 cylinder G6. And your often quoted C&D got 0-60 in 9.0 seconds from a 1995 GA coupe with 150 hp Quad 4 with 5 speed stick that I have lying around at home. What a race car that is! :rolleyes:

[Cory Wolfe]

Nice to see that you are still putting words into my mouth and still acting like I'm a retard.

Whats the matter Viper, nervous that I know my specs better and that I don't always need to go by what Honda & Driver says. Um... what? Nothing's the matter and I'm not nervous. I go by C&D and such because, well, where do you expect me to get test numbers? Do you expect me to take each car I need data for to a drag strip to record the time? Since two people using a stop watch has the possibility for human error... Think what you want, but if you got simple HP numbers wrong, you must not know your specs better. My Grand Prix did 7.8 seconds by not only a stopwatch but also a G-force. The rating was used to support my case, nothing more.I didn't question the number for your Grand Prix, just supported the number C&D got. HPP magazine tested there car with some break in miles unlike Honda & Driver and Toyota Trend that test green cars from GM so as to give them worse numbers so I would bet HPP numbers are far closer to reality. GM, like all manufacturers, provide the test vehicles for C&D and such. If that is so, it's GM's own fault, but it's not true. It's just another close-minded attempt to dismiss what these magazines say because GM vehicles generally do poorly. Guess what... it is usually deserved. It took me a while to admit that to myself. Now I try to be decently open-minded, unlike you I can tell. Your telling me nothing that I don't know about the high output engines. The point I made was that GM only had detuned balance shaft Quad 4 bangers available from 95 onwards on the GA. Yeah... I know that and you were correct. I didn't say anything about it because of that. I moved on to what you said about HO Quad4s with confusing wording (thought you meant Quad4s dropped from 175 to 150 for 95, which obviously isn't true). Obviously they were high output with higher hp numbers. And you are the one saying that your car will blow away any G6 that has a 4 banger in it with your tired quad 4 and you can keep up with a 3500 G6. Thats where I assumed you were agreeing on the 7.8 second time on you 95 GA. Technically, I was being facetious about it beating them in it's current condition. If it had no problems, however, yes it will beat a 4cyl G6 unless something changes. Again, though, it's not stock. Again, a 4 cylinder powered G6 coupe will NOT, repeat not weight 3500 lbs. Once again, I'm not implying that. I am just saying that it will still be a porky car for a 4cyl at 3200-3300lbs, which is what I presume a 4cyl G6 coupe might weigh. I think it needs to be around 3000-3100lbs. And with a stick will whoop your beat GA's ass. I would bet money on it. As my GA is now... I would too. The spun rod bearing has severly limited it's performance. Hills kill it and it overheats continuously. My post was not a waste, it was just intended to correct all the mistakes you made with hp numbers, cars you could beat with you wasted GA and uninformed bias on what the general public wants in these high gas price times. Just because you think everything should have a race car engine in it that costs well over 20 grand doesn't mean thats what the public wants too! Intended to correct me when I wasn't the one that needed to be corrected? Whatever you say... I am a Pontiac fanatic, if you haven't noticed, and I know my stuff about newer Pontiacs (aka, I am particular to the '80s and '90s). Anyways, uninformed bias on what the general public wants in these times? That's funny... I thought Pontiac was supposed to be the "Driving Excitement" brand while we had Chevy and Saturn for those who wanted fuel economy (soon to be just Chevy, by the looks of it). Why does Pontiac need vehicles that don't even deliver average performance? They don't, but who says 4cyls can't deliver performance? No one and if you'd read my last paragraph, I want a 4cyl G6 for economy, but it has to have some performance that's better than just average. I don't want a race car. What I want would still deliver good fuel economy and still cost below $20k. Otherwise, well, it's a Pontiac and this is the sort of thinking that has gotten Pontiac to where it is today. Thanks to Bob Lutz, some of that is changing even though I'm not a fan of his (yet, hopefully). Oh and btw, my bud and I test drove a $17990 special G6 with it's lethargic 2.4 Ecotec with but 200 miles and stopwatched it at 8.5 seconds to 60 several times. Going by that number, fully broken in versions would likey beat that by a few more tenths, a 6 speed stick from the GTP would definately improve things even further and the coupe would weight slightly less that the sedan we drove. Sounds about right, although I think your are being a bit aggressive with what it could do. So much for your theory of whooping a 4 cylinder G6. If my GA ran perfectly, it still would without changes to the G6. With a 6spd manual, it probably could beat mine pretty easily but GM won't do that. It'll be a 5spd at most. I'd bet my GA on it. :D And your often quoted C&D got 0-60 in 9.0 seconds from a 1995 GA coupe with 150 hp Quad 4 with 5 speed stick that I have lying around at home. What a race car that is! :rolleyes: Never said it was quick and certainly not a race car. Plus, going by you're theory... it wasn't broken in so one that is will be a few tenths faster. Anyways, again I do not want a race car. I just want respectable performance, which an as is G6 coupe with a 4cyl will not provide. For a Chevy, that'd it'd be completely fine, as is. This is Pontiac, however. Pontiac cannot be a bunch of Chevies with different styling. Look where doing that in the past has gotten it...

[post="71646"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

[cavalier36]

Ive driven the 4cyl and both V6's in the G6.. the 4 cyl isnt really that slow but both V6's seemed to operate much more smoothly, and the V6's were much smoother.. the 4cyl G6 seemed kinda buzzy.. I think the 4cyl is just there to satisify Alamo and Enterprise. and to keep cheap model in the fold for lower imcome people who need a bigger car than the Cobalt..

[regfootball]

I can't believe this thread has gone on for 4 pages!

I didn't read all the posts......but this seems to be a pretty clear-cut issue.....

A 4cyl G6 Coupe is a natural in the marketplace......will give the buyer more choice, will improve GM's CAFE fuel economy numbers, will give the buyer a more economical choice in these days of higher gas prices, and with 170hp, will be a more-than-decent performer in its own right.

Accord coupes with 4cyls are peppy and responsive.....so are Solara coupes actually....

What's all the debate?  I don't get it?

[post="71203"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I don't either!

[MyerShift]

I prefer my stick shifts to be clear of any and all blood, thank you. B)

Now... Yes, there should be a 4-cyl G6 Coupe.  A: It's already offered in the Sedan.  B: It would bring down the price and generate more sales.  C: Since there's no Sunfire/Pursuit to speak of in the US, it would be a damn good entry-level car for Pontiac.

[post="48168"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Whoa, it's been a while. Sorry about the "bloody" part. I just feel strongly about it.

With better transmissions, different gearing, and what-not, I'm sure that the 3.5L engine could more swiftly motivate the G6 off the line.

[ToniCipriani]

Or maybe wait until the 2.4L gets DI. Might help. But a 5-speed stick and 4-cylinder combo is a bare minimum must, I'd say.

[Drew Dowdell]

I objectively read your post... and I have to say... What is so wrong with wanting a car that can outrun my 95 Grand Am? Honestly? I have the smallest engine offered for 95, yet it can outrun all but the biggest engine available in G6s?  Do any of you guys not see a problem with that? Honestly? If you ask me... that is f**ked up. If any of you insist otherwise... Guess what. You are a f**king retard. Ask me and I will tell you. Please do. I love calling people that... Please fulfill my desires.

*takes out gun* *blows head off*

[post="50495"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

For the simple reason that the current G6 is a much bigger car then the 95 Grand Am.

The Accord and Camry grew up since 1995, so has the G6. What you are missing, BV, is a car slotted under the G6 that is roughly the same dimensions as your current GA. That would likely be the Pursuit.

[Drew Dowdell]

and to keep cheap model in the fold for lower imcome people who need a bigger car than the Cobalt..

[post="71691"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I think this bit of wisdom needs repeating.

[MKB1701]

Hell no... it's heavy enough as is. It's going to be slow as sh!t. If it loses a few hundred pounds, I could see it. Right now, no way. This isn't like when Grand Ams did it as they were light. Mine weighs only 2800lbs. A 4cyl works great for it. A 3500lb one? You've got to be kidding me unless you're turbocharging it. But that isn't cheap... So no, no, no, and no!

[post="48000"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hell of a point, wish I could change my vote........