Should Pontiac make a 4-cylinder G6 Coupe?

[ToniCipriani]

Well since there's no Pursuit down south, that makes the G6 coupe to be the smallest coupe that Pontiac has. Should they make a 4-cylinder version instead of just the GT and GTP until a new coupe arrives? I myself is all for a 4-cylinder G6 :D Edited November 24, 2005 by ToniCipriani

[z28luvr01]

I don't see why not. This car would probably start in the high teens, making it a good head-on competitor to the Accord, especially if they offer it with the 5spd.

[pow]

Yes, with a manual transmission, too.

[Flybrian]

Why not? And, yes, with a stick.

[Cory Wolfe]

Hell no... it's heavy enough as is. It's going to be slow as sh!t. If it loses a few hundred pounds, I could see it. Right now, no way. This isn't like when Grand Ams did it as they were light. Mine weighs only 2800lbs. A 4cyl works great for it. A 3500lb one? You've got to be kidding me unless you're turbocharging it. But that isn't cheap... So no, no, no, and no!

[bobo]

I don't understand the appeal of the four-cylinder G6's, but I've never driven a vehicle with the 2.4 liter ecotec. I have driven several vehicles with the 2.2 liter ecotec, and I don't find that engine to be particularly smooth. How is the larger engine? Smooth, fun to rev? More fun than the 3900?

[ToniCipriani]

Haven't picked up my car yet, so I couldn't comment at the moment. But I did drive a GT with a 3.5L, it's a bit too much power for me. I generally don't like cars that have too much power, but not pigs as well. It's not like I'm racing the car or doing donuts, but I still want it to go up hills with no problems.

[mjdecker]

I wouldn't mind a 4cyl G6 coupe since the sedan offers it and it could be a good for people who want better gas mileage but don't want a compact.

I'm thinking that my next car might be an Alero or Grand Am coupe with an Ecotec (5 speed of course).

But I did drive a GT with a 3.5L, it's a bit too much power for me. I generally don't like cars that have too much power, but not pigs as well.

I'll take a cobalt coupe with a twin turbo charged LS7 B) .. Is that too much power?

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

No-there shouldn't even be a 4-cylinder G6-the 2.8-liter DOHC High Feature 210hp V-6 should be standard on Base models-leave the 4-cylinders (the 2.4-liter DOHC ECOTEC) to the Malibu.

[Drew Dowdell]

Sure there should.... They have 4-cylinder Accord coupes, Solaras, Stratus coupes, Sebring coupes.

[MyerShift]

Pontiac should make a four cylinder version of the G6 coupe. I'm glad they make a sedan. I just wish that it had a few more available options so that one could have equipment levels comparing to the V6 versions (this is supposing that the Build & Price part of Pontiac's page is the same as a little while ago) but while having a lower overall price and improved efficiency (however slim) as some of us, like me, enjoy that peculiar four cylinder sound and be able to boast about that fuel mileage. Now, Pontiac, just one more thing about the G6 four cylinder model- PUT A BLOODY STICKSHIFT IN IT!!!!!!!!! Edited January 11, 2006 by MyerShift

[ocnblu]

How about the Cobalt SS motor? Actually, the 2.4L might work if offered with manual transmission, which should be available on the 4 cyl sedan as well.

[pontiaccrest]

NO and NO NO!!!!

[ToniCipriani]

How about the Cobalt SS motor?  Actually, the 2.4L might work if offered with manual transmission, which should be available on the 4 cyl sedan as well.

[post="48151"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Having the Supercharged under the hood sort of defeats the purpose in the first place. A 4-cylinder version should be the economical alternative, but the supercharged isn't. I guess the 2.4L will just need some time to prove itself before some people will change its mind.

And yes, the 4-cylinder is dying for better transmissions.

[aaaantoine]

Now, Pontiac, just one more thing about the G6 four cylinder model-

PUT A BLOODY STICKSHIFT IN IT!!!!!!!!!

[post="48071"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I prefer my stick shifts to be clear of any and all blood, thank you. B)

Now... Yes, there should be a 4-cyl G6 Coupe. A: It's already offered in the Sedan. B: It would bring down the price and generate more sales. C: Since there's no Sunfire/Pursuit to speak of in the US, it would be a damn good entry-level car for Pontiac.

[Cory Wolfe]

Maybe you guys are the reason GM bastardized Pontiac... :blink: I repeat: No. It'll just as bad of an idea as the Torrent and Montana. Sure, it'll bring in sales, but it'll further degrate Pontiac's ailing image. First of all, a G6 with the 3.5 does 0-60 in only 8 seconds. 8 seconds, people. Even that is terrible. A DOHC N/A 4cyl? You're looking at atleast 9+ seconds. Again, slow as sh!t. A DOHC T/C or S/C 4cyl? That could possibly be acceptable but it eliminate whatever advantages it had in cost and fuel mileage. So what is the point? How about we get on GM's ass for not offering an actuall compact instead this horrible idea? I swear C&G is hellbent on Pontiac's death.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Maybe you guys are the reason GM bastardized Pontiac... :blink:

I repeat: No. It'll just as bad of an idea as the Torrent and Montana. Sure, it'll bring in sales, but it'll further degrate Pontiac's ailing image. First of all, a G6 with the 3.5 does 0-60 in only 8 seconds. 8 seconds, people. Even that is terrible. A DOHC N/A 4cyl? You're looking at atleast 9+ seconds. Again, slow as sh!t. A DOHC T/C or S/C 4cyl? That could possibly be acceptable but it eliminate whatever advantages it had in cost and fuel mileage. So what is the point? How about we get on GM's ass for not offering an actuall compact instead this horrible idea?

I swear C&G is hellbent on Pontiac's death.

[post="48209"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree. Even my 4cyl 98 Grand Am Se did 0-60 in 7.9 seconds, and now the V6 G6 cant even match that.
I'm sure Pontiac could get more sales by adding the Pontiac Wave to the lineup, but I doubt that would help the brand. How about the 2.8 as the base engine with a stick instead?
Pontiac needs to bring its image up to match its prices, instead of bringing its prices down to match its image. Edited November 25, 2005 by CaddyXLR-V

[ToniCipriani]

No-there shouldn't even be a 4-cylinder G6-the 2.8-liter DOHC High Feature 210hp V-6 should be standard on Base models-leave the 4-cylinders (the 2.4-liter DOHC ECOTEC) to the Malibu.

[post="48054"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree. Even my 4cyl 98 Grand Am Se did 0-60 in 7.9 seconds, and now the V6 G6 cant even match that.
I'm sure Pontiac could get more sales by adding the Pontiac Wave to the lineup, but I doubt that would help the brand. How about the 2.8 as the base engine with a stick instead?
Pontiac needs to bring its image up to match its prices, instead of bringing its prices down to match its image.

[post="48282"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

OK, reality check. The 2.8L is built at St. Catharines, and that plant's closing. Where would you expect to get enough engines from, given that most of them go into CTSes already?

In short: Pontiac won't get that engine.

[Northstar]

The original plan was to give the G6 the 2.8L, but it would have been more expensive than going with the 3.5L; so, giving it the 2.8L would raise the price, not lower it.

[Cory Wolfe]

OK, reality check. The 2.8L is built at St. Catharines, and that plant's closing. Where would you expect to get enough engines from, given that most of them go into CTSes already?

In short: Pontiac won't get that engine.

Realtiy check.. 4cyl and a g6 coupe is a fuckin stupide idea. :rolleuys:

[ocnblu]

Is there still a 4 cylinder BMW available in the US? Edited November 26, 2005 by ocnblu

[bobo]

I think it's been about 5 years since BMW offered a 4-cylinder in the 3-Series and Z3.

[mightymouse]

BV: Realtiy check.. 4cyl and a g6 coupe is a fuckin stupide idea. :rolleuys: Reality is: Everything is stupid to some degree, of course, you know you can order one with the 4cyl in it? 34mpg s t o p w h i n i n g :P Edited November 26, 2005 by mightymouse

[ToniCipriani]

BV: Realtiy check.. 4cyl and a g6 coupe is a fuckin stupide idea. :rolleuys:

Reality is: Everything is stupid to some degree, of course, you know you can order one with the 4cyl in it?  34mpg

s  t  o  p  w  h  i  n  i  n  g    :P

[post="48843"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You can?? The coupe's GT and GTP only isn't it?

[mightymouse]

[quote name='ToniCipriani' date='Nov 26 2005, 09:18 PM']
You can?? The coupe's GT and GTP only isn't it?
There's a Pontiac salesman that lives down the street, he was
telling me that you can order a coupe w/a 4 beginning in '06....
I don't have proof, tho...Pontiac site says otherwise of course.

[ToniCipriani]

You can?? The coupe's GT and GTP only isn't it?

There's a Pontiac salesman that lives down the street, he was
telling me that you can order a coupe w/a 4 beginning in '06....
I don't have proof, tho...Pontiac site says otherwise of course.

[post="48949"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I wouldn't trust dealers. Last time the dealer told me I can order a 4-cylinder with a 5-speed stick. Got me excited for a minute... but you know the deal. He came back to me and it was a mistake. It's like everytime I talk to a dealer the salesperson is always flipping the brochure in front of me. Edited November 27, 2005 by ToniCipriani

[Flybrian]

I wouldn't trust dealers. Last time the dealer told me I can order a 4-cylinder with a 5-speed stick. Got me excited for a minute... but you know the deal. He came back to me and it was a mistake. It's like everytime I talk to a dealer the salesperson is always flipping the brochure in front of me.

[post="48952"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

See, this is why I should be a car salesman. I'd readily and honestly inform you of model availability both out of the lot's allocation and what could be special ordered from the factory without having to scan the same brochure you have access to.

I'd also drive the living shit out of demo cars.

[mightymouse]

I'd rather beat a dealer with a stick, than stick with a dealer.

[razoredge]

Didnt read much of this guys. I say the question is < should the Cobalt bodystyle be the only offering in this high volumn low price market ? > < is this utilizing a plant to its fullest effeciency ? > forget the G6 in this scenerio, I cant imagine a car that heavy with a 2.4 I4, but if they want them, they can have them. Edited November 27, 2005 by razoredge

[avro206]

They should try it out and see what happens. Slower then the V6: Check Whats your point?? Very few people buy on the basis of hp and accleration. Look at Hummers! They are all slow but people buy them. A 2.4L 5 speed G6 would be okay and could easily beat a 2.2L Malibu and a H3!! :P Edited November 27, 2005 by avro206

[Cory Wolfe]

s  t  o  p    w  h  i  n  i  n  g

A 2.4L 5 speed G6 would be okay and could easily beat a 2.2L Malibu and a H3!!

Yep... all while my 95 GA with its ticking, knocking, leaking headgasket, and overheating Quad4 would whoops it's fat ass. I thought the '90s were supposed to be Pontiac's worst era? That's what everyone seems to say but if a 4cyl is put into a G6 coupe (one in the sedan is bad enough), I'd have to seriously argue that. Grand Ams with Quad4s and Quad4 HOs, Turbo Grand Prixs, Turbo Sunbirds, manual trannies available on most vehicles, and most vehicles were light. What the hell happened? Even with the Solstice and such, I'd rather have a 90s Pontiac than a current one. 4cyl in the coupe would be the final nail in the coffin. Edited November 27, 2005 by blackviper8891

[ToniCipriani]

I was astonished when I heard this, but my friend told me that my G6 is actually lighter than his Mazda 3. And it has a 2.3L @ 170HP. *EDIT* Oh wait... never mind, I think my friend made a mistake. It's like 2800lbs, where the G6 is 3380lbs. Edited November 27, 2005 by ToniCipriani

[Flybrian]

Yep... all while my 95 GA with its ticking, knocking, leaking headgasket, and overheating Quad4 would whoops it's fat ass. I thought the '90s were supposed to be Pontiac's worst era? That's what everyone seems to say but if a 4cyl is put into a G6 coupe (one in the sedan is bad enough), I'd have to seriously argue that. Grand Ams with Quad4s and Quad4 HOs, Turbo Grand Prixs, Turbo Sunbirds, manual trannies available on most vehicles, and most vehicles were light. What the hell happened? Even with the Solstice and such, I'd rather have a 90s Pontiac than a current one. 4cyl in the coupe would be the final nail in the coffin.

[post="49159"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Serious question - have you even driven a 4cyl G6 or Malibu for that matter?

[mightymouse]

Yep... all while my 95 GA with its ticking, knocking, leaking headgasket, and overheating Quad4 would whoops it's fat ass. '90s were Pontiac's worst era I'd rather have a 90s Pontiac than a current one.

[post="49159"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

NUH UHHHHH. Technology HAS improved on the 4s...If you could afford a new G6,
OR Solstice, you would love to have one! SoRrY. The only way you would win is if you went off a cliff first. :P That's it. You go in the oven.

[avro206]

I was astonished when I heard this, but my friend told me that my G6 is actually lighter than his Mazda 3. And it has a 2.3L @ 170HP.

*EDIT* Oh wait... never mind, I think my friend made a mistake. It's like 2800lbs, where the G6 is 3380lbs.

[post="49205"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Mazda 3 is 160hp and the weights are in the 2900lbs range and the G6 range is 3200-3500lbs.

[razoredge]

G6 is too heavy, Im sure a SCX would run all over one, due to weight and resistance alone. The Ecotec is a better designed engine than Quad 4, correct ? Wheres Pontiacs small 4 passenger car ? does anything weigh under 3000 in this segment anymore ?

[jmore1276]

NO!!!!!!!...but if so ONLY and I mean ONLY with a stick.

[jmore1276]

does anything weigh under 3000 in this segment anymore ?

[post="49338"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

[/quote]

Not even my ex-wife :P

[razoredge]

:lol: ouch !

[z28luvr01]

I have driven a 2.2L Malibu, and performance was adequate for it. Not outstanding, but power was there when I needed it. I don't think a higher horsepower 4cyl, especially one mated to a stick, would be that much of a problem in the G6. BV, as you've experienced firsthand, the engine combinations GM offered in the 90s may have had more power, but they were certainly less reliable and durable. I'd bet the farm on my Ecotec, or even my father's 2.4L Twin Cam (a revised, ableit detuned Quad 4).

[ponchoman49]

I have driven the 2.2 Ecotec Malibus are they were fine for everyday driving. If your out to race people then none of these cars, even the GTP is for you. At 6.7 seconds to 60 even a Cobalt SS can beat you. SO on that thought a G6 2.4 coupe does indeed make sense. The old Grand AM sold in heavy quantities with the 4 cylinder so putting the 167 hp motor behind the new 6 speed manual should produce pretty decent power. The coupe with a 2.4 shouldn't weight much over 3200 lbs and maybe even a little under in a $17995 value edition. The trouble with the G6 coupe is that you must move up 2 wrungs to a GT model which is priced around 24-25K to get that 2 door model. A lower priced 2.4 or even base 3500 version would make perfect sense to bring in more traffic to the showroom. And not every car needs to accellerate to 60 in 4 seconds. 98% of the time on our super crowded highways you can never even use that power and with gas prices being so super unstable many folks want more economical choices. 34 mpg highway is very good for a big 4 in a mid size car.

[ToniCipriani]

Or how about this... It may sound stupid, but offer a "sound deadening material delete" option. For those who don't mind trading more engine noise for weight, thus lighter and faster. I remember when Porsche designed the 997, they took a complain about the 996 that there's not enough engine noise in the cabin. Since Pontiac should be about performance, maybe follow the suit?

[avro206]

Or how about this...

It may sound stupid, but offer a "sound deadening material delete" option. For those who don't mind trading more engine noise for weight, thus lighter and faster. I remember when Porsche designed the 997, they took a complain about the 996 that there's not enough engine noise in the cabin.

Since Pontiac should be about performance, maybe follow the suit?

[post="49613"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The weight penaly would be pretty small I think. An thus any mileage/performnce would be almost unnoticeable. Can't imagine too many G6 buyers wantinf a club sport 4 cly G6

[bobo]

I forgot that I drove an HHR with the 2.4 liter ecotec. The car never felt underpowered, but I didn't go up any hills. I think the engine would be adequate in the G6, though it does weigh 200 pounds more than an HHR. I also forgot that the Solstice has the big ecotec. It feels perfectly fine in that car, which may be overweight for a roadster, but is still 600 pounds lighter than a G6. Edited November 29, 2005 by bobo

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Yes, but the I4 would have to be different than GMs run of the mill ECOTEC... it would need a higher redline for if you want power, but generally speaking it gets good gas mileage if you dont actually use it for the added power. But i think the money would be better spent on improving the HV line of engines, the HV is essentially GMs version of SOHC engines while the HF are the DOHC line (duh). Honda has shown that single cam engines are capable of decent power, so why cant GMs pushrods do the same all while getting good gas mileage. Edited November 29, 2005 by Teh Ricer Civic!

[Cory Wolfe]

Serious question - have you even driven a 4cyl G6 or Malibu for that matter?

[post="49207"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No, but I can do the math. Power to weight ratios. Yeah... heard of those? They actually mean something. That and they have these tests where they see how fast a car can accellerate from 0mph to 60mph... Really, they do. You see... I compare those things. You must have never thought of that...

NUH UHHHHH.  Technology HAS improved on the 4s...If you could afford a new G6,
OR Solstice, you would love to have one! SoRrY. The only way you would win is if you went off a cliff first.      :P  That's it.  You go in the oven.

[post="49212"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I never said technology hasn't improved on the newer Ecotecs... that doesn't mean they're automatically faster. Especially when you dump one in a 3500lb Midsize car... As I said, the performance of my Quad4 powered G6 is comparable to the G6 powered by the 3500 V6, forget a 4cyl. I repeat: My GA with its ticking, knocking, leaking headgasket Quad4 with 121,000 miles will open a can of whoopass on any 4cyl powered G6. Hands down. If it was in perfect condition, I'd have a good chance of beating a 3500 powered G6. That's how rediculous things are right now... I swear...

I have driven a 2.2L Malibu, and performance was adequate for it. Not outstanding, but power was there when I needed it. I don't think a higher horsepower 4cyl, especially one mated to a stick, would be that much of a problem in the G6.

BV, as you've experienced firsthand, the engine combinations GM offered in the 90s may have had more power, but they were certainly less reliable and durable. I'd bet the farm on my Ecotec, or even my father's 2.4L Twin Cam (a revised, ableit detuned Quad 4).

[post="49575"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Have I ever said anything about reliability? No. I'm speaking strictly about performance. 2800lbs + 150hp > 3500lbs + 170hp. By a large margain, I might add... And *ahem* a Malibu is how much lighter than a G6? Yeah...

Again, a 4cyl in the undoubtedly heavy G6 is so f**king retarded that I am just completely shocked any of you guys would want that... unless you have plans for the death of Pontiac. It's just as rediculous as giving Pontiac a f**king rebadged minivan. That was and still is one of the worst things to happen to Pontiac, IMO. Pontiac is supposed to be affordable performance that usually appeals to younger buyers. Pontiac was closer to that in the 90s than they are now... A 4cyl in a 3500lbs vehicle? ...That's something I'd expect Chevy to do. Not Pontiac. So if you guys are going to support this, I better not hear any comments about Pontiac and the 90s. Got it?

(God... Why do members of C&G want Pontiac to follow in Olds' footsteps? Why oh why!?)

[z28luvr01]

Have I ever said anything about reliability? No. I'm speaking strictly about performance. 2800lbs + 150hp > 3500lbs + 170hp. By a large margain, I might add... And *ahem* a Malibu is how much lighter than a G6? Yeah...

Yeah, but your point is moot if the 2800lb car loses the race due to a blown head gasket.

*swish*

Just for the sake of argument, the Malibu with the 2.2L weighs 140lb less than the Malibu with the 3.5L. It's not too farfetched to think a G6 4cyl would undergo a similar wight reduction. I tried to find concrete info, but there's no weight info published on the base G6 sedan.

[ToniCipriani]

From the GM Media site, that the G6 V6 is actually only 83lbs heavier than the Malibu LT.

In theory, assuming the 2.4L is around the same as the 2.2L in weight, that would be around 120lbs difference, engine alone.

Therefore, the power-to-weight ratios (lower is better):

G6 4-cyl (est.) - 3380 - 120 / 167 = 19.5 lbs/hp

Malibu LS 2.2L - 3174 /144 = 22.0 lbs/hp

1995 Grand Am SE (3100 V6, couldn't find Quad4) - 2840 / 155 = 18.3 lbs/hp

So the GA SE IS slightly quicker, but you can't compare this ratio alone. Materials and safety standards are completely different between the years. Other things such as safety standards, the GA is no match to the G6. Also, it's unfair to compare a GA GT directly with the base G6. Selling price of a GA GT when brand new is nowhere as low as a G6 base.

And again, read my original post. I said it was a stopgap vehicle until a new coupe arrives, or maybe let it stay if it sells. The G6 is the smallest coupe Pontiac has right now, the availablility is just to boost sales, and to add affordability. People wanting more power can always pay more. Edited November 30, 2005 by ToniCipriani

[Cory Wolfe]

Yeah, but your point is moot if the 2800lb car loses the race due to a blown head gasket.

Smartass... :P The headgasket won't blow, but the knocking might kill it... :lol: :D

Just for the sake of argument, the Malibu with the 2.2L weighs 140lb less than the Malibu with the 3.5L. It's not too farfetched to think a G6 4cyl would undergo a similar wight reduction. I tried to find concrete info, but there's no weight info published on the base G6 sedan.

Of course... It will still weigh more than a Malibu with the 2.2, though. The increase of horsepower with the 2.4 will most likely even it. Still... it's a Pontiac. It may be okay for a Chevy, but a Pontiac? You and everyone else have got to be kidding me. Not only is it overlapping which many like to bash and end up supporting the PBG merger because of that... it's a Pontiac for Christ's sake. No Pontiac should be the equivilent of a Chevy. It should be above one. This... this wouldn't be and just continues to ruin the General. I'm disgusted and appalled you guys like this idea... Do you want to see Pontiac die? What about GM? I swear you guys do and all I say doesn't compute with your minds. It may be a bit extreme to think that way but I can tell you one thing that is for sure: It isn't helping either. I hope you guys realize that.

*shakes head*

[CaddyXLR-V]

Then compare it to a base 97 grand am. 150hp quad 4, 0-60 in 7.8 seconds. And my window sticker says $14,000.