R.I.P GM as we know it

[gm4life]

You're also not part of a generation that grew up with imports that were far better than their domestic counterparts.

My son is born in '90, and he still loves domestic cars. Actually more than me.

Edited May 24, 2009 by gm4life

[Camino LS6]

Interesting.

I despise the W-body for a whole host of reasons, yet the good stuff (as posted in pic form here) outweighs that fact.

I still love so much GM product, because I don't judge the good stuff through the lens of the crap like Satty does.

I dismiss the crap within seconds as unimportant to me.

To use Satty's example of Solara vs. Monte Carlo - I'd walk past both of them without taking any notice whatsoever.

[Satty]

As a fan of GM's vehicles, its fine to bury the garbage in your mind, but as a fan of GM as a whole, one really has to take the garbage into account. Cars like the Ws and Js ARE the reason GM is on the verge of bankruptcy and why their market share has plummeted, and thats why GM cant afford to do things like the G8 ST and Cien.

[A Horse With No Name]

Interesting.

I despise the W-body for a whole host of reasons, yet the good stuff (as posted in pic form here) outweighs that fact.

I still love so much GM product, because I don't judge the good stuff through the lens of the crap like Satty does.

I dismiss the crap within seconds as unimportant to me.

To use Satty's example of Solara vs. Monte Carlo - I'd walk past both of them without taking any notice whatsoever.

To me the W Body is kind of like the Mustang II-right car for the time, even though the enthusiasts may not like them.

Ford sold 385,000 Mustang II's in 74 and something like 125,000 of the larger bodystyle in 73.

GM has sold enough W bodies to fill the Pacific Ocean full to overflowing.

I just want to enjoy the GM pics, methinks. Personally, I know a lot of people who own W bodies and love them...and while I'll never own one, the Monte SS paint schemes I thought were cool.

Hopefully the Volt pulls it through for GM in the future...'cause God only knows the Camaro and CTS can't carry the whole thing.

Chris

[gm4life]

To me the W Body is kind of like the Mustang II-right car for the time, even though the enthusiasts may not like them.

Ford sold 385,000 Mustang II's in 74 and something like 125,000 of the larger bodystyle in 73.

GM has sold enough W bodies to fill the Pacific Ocean full to overflowing.

I just want to enjoy the GM pics, methinks. Personally, I know a lot of people who own W bodies and love them...and while I'll never own one, the Monte SS paint schemes I thought were cool.

Hopefully the Volt pulls it through for GM in the future...'cause God only knows the Camaro and CTS can't carry the whole thing.

Chris

I totally agree, the Volt is not for me but cool none the less, and will be cheering it on from the sidelines. As for the W's SLP, Instense, PFYC have all made a killing off of performance parts for the front driver 3800's and then compare them to a similarly priced rice burner a big burly FWD W-Body with a 3800 seems like a hell of alot more car than say a riced Civic. They in a way were like a modern Chevelle, GTO, GP and Monte Carlo, my point was is that even a very "basic" Grand Prix SE with a 3.1 was a pretty boring car but then if you checked the right option boxes you could have a fairly exciting Grand Prix GTP Coupe with loads of goodies including HUD and Onstar, that drove pretty darn good. What I was saying was GM good at varying the cars for different tastes/budgets and did a pretty good job out of extracting performance from basically the same car.

[knightfan26917]

We just need to get over it and all have an all GM caravan somehwere...did I hear "road trip"

That's an AWESOME idea, Chris.

Ya'll could join us for this:

http://www.cheersandgears.com/index.php?showtopic=26485

...or road trip on Route 66:

http://www.cheersandgears.com/index.php?showtopic=26482

It's no secret I haven't been happy with GM for a VERY long time, starting with their "wisdom" in giving us the Toyota Nova/Ch#$r%*et Corolla in the mid-1980s ... and continued with several other nameplates.

Still ... I am a GM guy. While I've thought about getting a Mustang ... or even a Dodge Charger ... or even a Dodge Challenger ... I just can't see myself driving one of those regularly....

*shrugs*

Some awesome pics in this thread, for sure. It's definitely neat.

Cort | 35swm | "Mr Monte Carlo"."Mr Road Trip" | pig valve.pacemaker ...RT 66 = Sept 5-16, '09

WRMNshowcase.legos.HO.models.MCs.RTs.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"So many people have come and gone; their faces fade as the years go by" ... Boston ... 'More Than A Feeling'

[Oracle of Delphi]

Interesting.

I despise the W-body for a whole host of reasons, yet the good stuff (as posted in pic form here) outweighs that fact.

I still love so much GM product, because I don't judge the good stuff through the lens of the crap like Satty does.

I dismiss the crap within seconds as unimportant to me.

To use Satty's example of Solara vs. Monte Carlo - I'd walk past both of them without taking any notice whatsoever.

Not me, I love the W's and always will ...

[capriceman]

If any Govt. department should run GM i hope its nasa. as they turn a very small budget into the most advanced technology known to man.

[ShadowDog]

Even in the perfect world, not every car would be RWD with no less than a V6 under the hood. Not every car would have sport-tuned suspension; bright, over-sized wheels, wrapped with rubber bands for tires. Not every car would have hip-hugging and shoulder-bolstered seats for the canyon-carving, four-lane freeways.

There will always need to be the class with Aveos and fuel-efficient, practical and inexpensive, entry-level general transportation about the size of a Cobalt. There will always need to be the simple family-mover cross-over that has 'good-enough' acceleration and half-decent technological gizmos with more focus on safety.

There will always be cars the purist and fan-boy will scoff at and think was a waste of time designing, engineering and building because it isn't 'cool' enough. People need those kind of cars, and GM needs to have these cars sell in order to provide the purist and fan-boy a performance-based and sporty, 'cool' variant or stand-alone architecture.

Every manufacturer has its groaner-mobiles. Not building them would mean shutting out the majority of your consumer-base.

Yeah, this is all common sense; however, after what I've been reading, I get the feeling that the only cars people here want are tire-smoking, road-thundering, V8 powered, pant-soiling, performance cars from Chevette to Corvette. It doesn't matter what decade or generation, it isn't going to happen and I wonder why this reality isn't acceptable?

[Robert Hall]

Every manufacturer has its groaner-mobiles. Not building them would mean shutting out the majority of your consumer-base.

Yeah, this is all common sense; however, after what I've been reading, I get the feeling that the only cars people here want are tire-smoking, road-thundering, V8 powered, pant-soiling, performance cars from Chevette to Corvette. It doesn't matter what decade or generation, it isn't going to happen and I wonder why this reality isn't acceptable?

The problem is, up until recent years, GM's mass market FWD generics have been subpar and mediocre when compared to the competition (Toyota, Honda) that the mainstream public loves....25+ years of mediocrity got GM into to the trouble it's in now.

[Satty]

The problem is, up until recent years, GM's mass market FWD generics have been subpar and mediocre when compared to the competition (Toyota, Honda) that the mainstream public loves....25+ years of mediocrity got GM into to the trouble it's in now.

Exactly. Its not like GM keeping the old B-Bodies around or making 3 Zetas for every brand would've helped, because those aren't the cars that sell in numbers.

[A Horse With No Name]

...and here I would have to agree with Satty and Cubical. GM has screwed the pooch on the basic transportation cars, esp. at the entry level. Just got back from our autocross, and I was corner working with Shawn, who is a Honda engeneer who helped develop the certain aspects of the FIT and the Civic SI for the US market. He was talking about all of the things Honda had done to make the Fit and Civic effective as entry level cars. The Fit and Civic have pretty much handed the Cobalt and Aveo their ass in terms of everyday entry level cars.

Until GM fixes their entry level issues, it's going to be a sad day in mudville for GM.

Chris

[ShadowDog]

...and here I would have to agree with Satty and Cubical. GM has screwed the pooch on the basic transportation cars, esp. at the entry level. Just got back from our autocross, and I was corner working with Shawn, who is a Honda engeneer who helped develop the certain aspects of the FIT and the Civic SI for the US market. He was talking about all of the things Honda had done to make the Fit and Civic effective as entry level cars. The Fit and Civic have pretty much handed the Cobalt and Aveo their ass in terms of everyday entry level cars.

Until GM fixes their entry level issues, it's going to be a sad day in mudville for GM.

Chris

I certainly haven't been seeing any major discussion here on mainstream basic transportation cars, which is why I asked.

[Lamar]

I certainly haven't been seeing any major discussion here on mainstream basic transportation cars, which is why I asked.

There have been plenty of discussions on the Malibu... but that's about it as far as I can remember.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Lamar

[regfootball]

...and here I would have to agree with Satty and Cubical. GM has screwed the pooch on the basic transportation cars, esp. at the entry level. Just got back from our autocross, and I was corner working with Shawn, who is a Honda engeneer who helped develop the certain aspects of the FIT and the Civic SI for the US market. He was talking about all of the things Honda had done to make the Fit and Civic effective as entry level cars. The Fit and Civic have pretty much handed the Cobalt and Aveo their ass in terms of everyday entry level cars.

Until GM fixes their entry level issues, it's going to be a sad day in mudville for GM.

Chris

unfortunately that is true.

the cruze will be an upgrade but it does not appeal to be top of class.

the next aveo looks like garbage.

OTOH, the fiesta and next focus look mighty good......

as the shiny black astra 3 door passed me on the road yesterday looking snazzy i can't help but think GM blew chunks on its launch here big time.

and it looks like if they can't get the next one here either its another lost opportunity.........