2 New Buick Crossovers?

[buickguy]

First we are getting the Enclave, now a smaller crossover?

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=108095

I think this one should be called the Invicta.

[ehaase]

Edmunds is not a reliable source of information, but this would be a nice product for Buick. Making Buick the "junior Cadillac" division would be a good idea, in my opinion.

[Sixty8panther]

First we are getting the Enclave, now a smaller crossover?

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=108095

I think this one should be called the Invicta.

[post="46738"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

NO effin way brother.

An Invicta is a sleek, low, wide, loooong car wiht a sexy V8 under the hood. Like a Nailhead powered '59 bubbletop.

Invicta was "the most spirited buick". Invicta was a more midline model when LeSabre was the base car.



Invicta is NOT some rinky-dink POS Crossover Van/SUV that's here today and gone tomorrow. <_<

[Croc]

Seriously, I think Sixty8s onto something. Why should GM even bother designing new cars? Why don't they just start making the same exact cars as they did in the 1950s and 1960s. You know, relive the glory days. :rolleyes:

[wildcat]

Hmm, don't be too hard on buickguy for suggesting the name "Invicta." I think there are many Buick fans who wish GM would use a name from the past. Disregarding what the specific vehicle would be, I like the name Invicta, and others from Buick's past. But maybe they're holding Invicta for a RWD flagship.

[Paolino]

Okay, but how many SUV crossover things are we going to have with the 2 sedans? I just feel like Buick is not going to be a "car" company anymore.

[wildcat]

Buick can't be just a "car" company - the market has shifted away. Who among Buick's targets is still just a car company? Lexus? Acura? Crossovers are supposed to be an expanding market, so I think it's great they can give Buick some of the action. Otherwise, Buick would be relegated to conventional thinking, big 4-door sedans, and we know where that will eventually lead. Edited November 22, 2005 by wildcat

[sciguy_0504]

I thought GM was going to keep tabs on how many cars each division has, minus Chevy and Cadillac? God, I hope these cars are each styled distinctly and differently.

[Croc]

Okay, but how many SUV crossover things are we going to have with the 2 sedans?

I just feel like Buick is not going to be a "car" company anymore.

[post="46849"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Buick hasn't been a "car" company since the Rendezvous, Rainier and Terazza.

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I like Invicta, but I am putting my foot down: no bubbletop.

[VenSeattle]

It's been suggested before and I still agree with it:
Give Buick's LWB Theta crossover the Rendezvous name.

And I think they're terribly off in their predicted price range. Buick's Enclave will probably be $35k-$45k but the Theta will probably be priced the same as the outgoing Rendezvous: $25k-$35k.

[Paolino]

Buick can't be just a "car" company - the market has shifted away.  Who among Buick's targets is still just a car company?  Lexus?  Acura?  Crossovers are supposed to be an expanding market, so I think it's great they can give Buick some of the action.  Otherwise, Buick would be relegated to conventional thinking, big 4-door sedans, and we know where that will eventually lead.

[post="46862"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Buick hasn't been a "car" company since the Rendezvous, Rainier and Terazza.

---

I like Invicta, but I am putting my foot down: no bubbletop.

[post="46893"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

What I'm saying is that I feel almost like the LaCrosse is a piece of crap. The Lucerne is great, but not ground-breaking. What is Buick going to have? All trucks and crossovers, and maybe if it feels like it, have 1 car?

I'm not saying the market has shifted, but do we really need like 30 versions of the same thing? I mean, c'mon, GM has crossovers in Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, Saab (will be getting)... do we need them in EVERY division!? I just feel the whole damn thing is overkill.

[ehaase]

All trucks and crossovers, and maybe if it feels like it, have 1 car?

[post="46912"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hogans_Heroes, whom I consider the most accurate insider, even though he rarely posts, gave some good information that Buick will replace the LaCrosse. So there will at least be 2 cars. However, Buick will have to bring back a traditional big sedan like the Roadmaster to get my business.

[Cananopie]

Invicta is a car name, not the cheaper crossover sport vehicles name. You want an "old" name for it, I agree with Ven, call it Rendezvous, that was the name of a successful Buick crossover before they killed it. I also agree with Paulie- obviously there is a market for SUVs out there but come on! Give Buick at least 3 cars... 1 that isn't a 4 door sedan please for some credibility outside of the sedan buyers.

[Hogans_Heroes]

Invicta was name reserved for the RWD Zeta "Buick Flagship Sedan". That vehicle has I believe since been cancelled, due in part to GM planning on the NG Lucerne being RWD (ZETA). Don't look for the Invicta name to be resurrected on a Buick CUV. The CUV program on TE (Theta-Epsilon) platform is real (to be built in Ramos Arizpe), and the Buick is being looked at but is not at the same level of "go" as the BRX and 9-4X. As it stands now (or, more accurately, how it stood two months ago), is that the BRX is scheduled to debut first (as would make the most sense) in December of 2008, with the 9-4X to follow in Feb-09. I don't have timing on the Buick (as it is more shaky than the others), but imagine it would either commence at the same time as the 9-4X or even slightly after. Buick seriously needs this product, as they would otherwise be left only with a Global Epsilon (Epsilon2) Lacrosse, the Zeta Lucerne, and the Enclave. Terazza and Rainier will not live to see the light of day.

[Cadillacfan]

The last thing Buick needs is more models. They need to work on the cars they already have. I thought Buick was going to have a very small amount of vehicles in it's stable.

[titan]

If the Invicta name comes back, it should be the name of the flagship above Lucerne. The CUV is a great idea; this is a fast growing segment, though GM will still be a few years late to the game. If it's priced in the 29-36 range, with the Enclave in the 38-45 range, Buick will be in the bread and butter of the lux crossover market. What they will still need, is a RWD flagship and a halo, a la' Velite.

[VenSeattle]

Invicta was name reserved for the RWD Zeta "Buick Flagship Sedan".  That vehicle has I believe since been cancelled, due in part to GM planning on the NG Lucerne being RWD (ZETA).

Buick seriously needs this product, as they would otherwise be left only with a Global Epsilon (Epsilon2) Lacrosse, the Zeta Lucerne, and the Enclave.

[post="47099"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Is there a solid date for the Epsilon2 LaCrosse? Which plant?

You mentioned in another thread that DTS could/would go Zeta along with the Lucerne... how close to "final approval" is that possibility?

[thegriffon]

GM gave a date for the LaCrosse just the other day ;-)

[thegriffon]

For Ven's pricing to work for Buick, they would have to keep the Rendezvous in production long after the Enclave debuts. I don't see that happening. Given SRX V6 pricing it would also be too close to the BRX.

[Imaj]

Let's hope they are the best Buicks yet..

[titan]

For Ven's pricing to work for Buick, they would have to keep the Rendezvous in production long after the Enclave debuts. I don't see that happening. Given SRX V6 pricing it would also be too close to the BRX.

[post="47341"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I disagree. So what if the Enclave's pricing is close to the SRX? The SRX starts at $40K and the Enclave should start at $35K. It's not like they'll be rebadged sisters... they'll be very different vehicles, and can be sold at similar prices if marketed right. The SRX is based of RWD Sigma, and the Enclave will be more of an RX type softroader instead of a sports car with a backpack (like the FX and X5). Ven's pricing is on point, IMHO.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Edmunds is not a reliable source of information, but this would be a nice product for Buick. 

Making Buick the "junior Cadillac" division would be a good idea, in my opinion.

[post="46803"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

That's exactly what I've been trying to conjure up! And why Buick should have this smaller crossover-which turns out I guess now to be a mid-sizer and not a compact like I originally thought. If there were to be a Buick version, then I don't think BRX would really be needed-if that is, you were going after the X3 and Mariner. I think the next SRX should turned into more a tall mid-size crossover wagon like the Mercedes-Benz R-Class, but lower and sharper looking, and then shoo in BRX or something like that.

[Hogans_Heroes]

Is there a solid date for the Epsilon2 LaCrosse? Which plant?

You mentioned in another thread that DTS could/would go Zeta along with the Lucerne... how close to "final approval" is that possibility?

[post="47314"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

VenSeattle,

Yes, the NG LaCrosse is completely solid and has been for some time - it will debut on the "Global Epsilon" (what GM calls it) / "Epsilon2" (what I've been calling it) architecture beginning in January of 2009. The official code is GMX353.

I don't have official word on plant location assignment, but can only deduce that it will be Orion Township (Lake Orion), MI. It seems to make the most sense.

The current generation will continue until that time (until late 2008), in accordance with GM's timing for the shutdown of Oshawa #2. My guess is it will be pretty long-in-the-tooth at that point.

I actually like your pricing estimates on the Enclave / TE CUV.

I've seen nothing, but would guess the TE CUV (which is not 100% greenlighted) would start at around $24k-ish and go up to $33k-ish. And then the Enclave could slot in above it, maybe starting around $30k and topping out near $39k, excepting any kind of "Ultra" variant).

But remember the Enclave will start production in April of 2007 (after the Nov-06 launch of Acadia & Outlook but well before any potential TE CUV), so initially it's going to have to span a larger pricing band (similar to the current Rendezvous). I believe the current Rondy starts close to $27k, so the Enclave, too, will probably need to begin at a similar point at launch.

Enclave will be better-equipped / lesser priced version of such vehicles as RX350 and MDX, whereas the TE CUV would be positioned to compete more directly with a RDX or CX.

[wildcat]

Hogans Heroes: To say I'm excited by your posts would be an understatement! Thank you for being willing to share this information. (And I know ehaase wouldn't make an endorsement like he did lightly.) Around what date will GM have to decide whether to give the possible Buick CUV the go-ahead?

Was that picture of a Buick grille, described on C&G as "LaCrosse Super," actually the Epsilon II LaCrosse?

Does Buick still plan to use the "Super" and "Reserve" designations? Edited November 23, 2005 by wildcat

[titan]

But remember the Enclave will start production in April of 2007 (after the Nov-06 launch of Acadia & Outlook but well before any potential TE CUV), so initially it's going to have to span a larger pricing band (similar to the current Rendezvous).  I believe the current Rondy starts close to $27k, so the Enclave, too, will probably need to begin at a similar point at launch.

Enclave will be better-equipped / lesser priced version of such vehicles as RX350 and MDX, whereas the TE CUV would be positioned to compete more directly with a RDX or CX.

[post="47417"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thankyou for the solid info. I have a feeling the Enclave will be executed correctly, and will give the RX and MDX reason to worry. I feel the same about the possible TE CUV also.

[wildcat]

I wanted to mention I figured out what "NG" meant. I read these posts and normally, to me, "NG" means "no good." :P But it's "next generation." Again, thanks to anyone who contributed to this thread's information!

[buyacargetacheck]

Buick seriously needs this product, as they would otherwise be left only with a Global Epsilon (Epsilon2) Lacrosse, the Zeta Lucerne, and the Enclave.

[post="47099"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I wonder if "Global Epsilon" or "Zeta" will accomodate a column shifter and a front bench???

[91z4me]

I wonder if "Global Epsilon" or "Zeta" will accomodate a column shifter and a front bench???

[post="50530"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I would think Zeta will, it is afterall a large car and will be sold as a near limo in Asia. I don't think Global Epsilon will it is a European designed car and I don't think they like bench seats much in the EU.