Camaro concept coming to Detroit!

[GMan]

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=103646

B)

[Sixty8panther]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I mean Autoweek is usually right on with their "scoops" and I'm thrilled that we'll be using the Kappa+ chasssis. This means lightweight but sturdy mechanicals and low cost.



FKUCING YES! :metal: Edited November 22, 2005 by Sixty8panther

[Chazman]

If that's the case, I'll be surprised. Perhaps pleasantly surprised....but surprised nontheless.

[griff7774]

in one word....... WOW :cheers:

[NOS2006]

:o :D

[aaaantoine]

This is still rumor and speculation, but given the source, it's a bit more exciting than normal. Stretch Kappa? I will laugh so hard if this ends up looking like my 3-4 year old Camaro proposal (which basically looks like a hardtop Solstice with 3rd Gen Camaro cues)

[SingleStylish]

If '09 is right then this "concept" will be in design freeze and could change drastically in the next three years. The overall process after design freeze is three years. I sincerely hope they are showing a glossed up version of the '07/'08 model and not a pie-in-the-sky '09!

[Brandon Lutz]

Just to let ya'll chew on this. I think Scott said the chassis the concept will be on will not be the actual chassis the car is actually built on. Its very common for a concept to be sitting on something totally different than what what it will be built on. Also from what I've heard building it on a stretched kappa would be terribley inefficient, a waste of resources, and not feasible.

[VenSeattle]

If '09 is right then this "concept" will be in design freeze and could change drastically in the next three years.  The overall process after design freeze is three years.  I sincerely hope they are showing a glossed up version of the '07/'08 model and not a pie-in-the-sky '09!

[post="46776"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

A 2009MY vehicle can go on sale Jan 1, 2008. That's about 2 years away.

[mphmag]

I've got to say after a week in the Solstice more money spent on this platform would be advisable. If the ride height was higher, the body a tad bigger and the engine completely replaced, the camaro on kappa would be amazing. The solstice handles everything so well and the chassis is by far the best part. There's just a lot of ergonomic issues with the Solstice you'd have to answer in a high volume model like a camaro. And upgrade many of the bin parts (everything but the stereo and a/c controls please). If they can keep a v6 under $20 and the V8 at $25 like the mustang and it has some decent looks, a la the solstice, it would kill. And I'm not a GM guy. Dave

[Northstar]

Just because the concept is on Kappa doesn't mean the production version has to be on Kappa. I'm not hinting at anything here (this is not based on any inside info), I'm just pointing out that just because it's on Kappa doesn't mean the production version couldn't be on a different platform.

We know it would be rather expensive to strech Kappa to accomodate two rows of seats, and we've seen two rows of seats on Kappa concepts, so it's not as if the Camaro concept being on Kappa means we will see a streched Kappa with two rows. Then again, maybe getting a Camaro Kappa plus some others (Pontiac sedan, Nomad, etc.) would make the investment needed to strech Kappa make business sense.

[Chazman]

Just because the concept is on Kappa doesn't mean the production version has to be on Kappa.

It won't be on Kappa.

[GMan]

It won't be on Kappa.

[post="46949"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Concept or production?

[Chazman]

Concept or production?

[post="46960"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'd say neither. Edited November 22, 2005 by Chazman

[GMan]

I'd say neither.

[post="46968"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thanks B)

2009 MY, is that too optimistic?

[FunkyPig]

I am very excited, but terribly nervous. After such a long build up, what direction GM decides to take the Comaro in will say a lot about the company. Right now, with all thats going on with the company, they need to be looking forward. If they wheel out something thats effectively a '69 with big wheels and no chrome than there's surely no hope. Please no tacky retro!

[V6powerr]

Its coming! :) :lol:

[turbo200]

Without questioning what Chazman has to say, he's an excellent source, the Camaro might not be on Kappa Plus, but it could still be encouraging they are showing us something on Kappa plus, if indeed Camaro concept is on kappa. I still doubt this will happen to, but autoweek talking about it is just more positive news, right? Edited November 23, 2005 by turbo200

[Guest Josh]

I am very excited, but terribly nervous. After such a long build up, what direction GM decides to take the Comaro in will say a lot about the company.
Right now, with all thats going on with the company, they need to be looking forward.

If they wheel out something thats effectively a '69 with big wheels and no chrome than there's surely no hope. Please no tacky retro!

[post="47078"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You have to remember 1 name and 1 name only.

Bob Lutz.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

To everyone who didn't beleve it, I have two words: UP YOURS! :D Anyhow, it's good to hear the Camaro is making a return. I wonder what this will look like? (Bad assed, I hope.) Edited November 23, 2005 by anorexorcist

[Chazman]

Without questioning what Chazman has to say, he's an excellent source, the Camaro might not be on Kappa Plus, but it could still be encouraging they are showing us something on Kappa plus, if indeed Camaro concept is on kappa. I still doubt this will happen to, but autoweek talking about it is just more positive news, right?

[post="47088"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hey, I hope I'm wrong and GM has some Kappa-esque platform like the Torana's in the works for the Camaro. That would just make my day. Because, quite frankly, I have no idea how GM is going to get a LARGE sedan and a smaller ponycar to share the same platform.

[Guest Josh]

Chrysler is about to do it with the Challenger.

[Chazman]

Chrysler is about to do it with the Challenger.

[post="47131"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yeah, but that's going to be a pretty big, hefty coupe. Ok for a Challenger, intolerable (from my perspective), for a Camaro.

[Cadillacfan]

I hope this information is accurate. That would be sooo sweet! Just imagine what GM could do with it. Since Kappa platform is very similar to the C6, I assume similar engine upgrades would be in the works if the Camaro went into production. Ford would have a really hard time trying to stay ahead of chevy.

[c0ld_phuz10n]

:blink: :o :) :lol: Thats awesome!!! Can't wait to see it. // c0ld_phuz10n

[ehaase]

Ok for a Challenger, intolerable (from my perspective), for a Camaro.

[post="47135"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The Mustang is only 9 inches shorter than a Chrysler 300, and it is just about as wide. I don't think that a Camaro that is smaller than a Mustang would be very popular. Especially when most buyers would be overweight baby boomers.

[Chazman]

The Mustang is only 9 inches shorter than a Chrysler 300, and it is just about as wide.  I don't think that a Camaro that is smaller than a Mustang would be very popular.  Especially when most buyers would be overweight baby boomers.

[post="47163"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Smaller than Mustang and presumed Challenger sized are two different things.

[Cadillacfan]

The Mustang is only 9 inches shorter than a Chrysler 300, and it is just about as wide.  I don't think that a Camaro that is smaller than a Mustang would be very popular.  Especially when most buyers would be overweight baby boomers.

[post="47163"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

If GM was smart, they wouldn't aim this at baby boomers but to the next generation of car buyers which will be much larger in size. Gen Y will start to bring more income in by the end of the decade and will be able to afford more expensive cars. That's just a prediction.

[usa1]

The Mustang is only 9 inches shorter than a Chrysler 300, and it is just about as wide.  I don't think that a Camaro that is smaller than a Mustang would be very popular.  Especially when most buyers would be overweight baby boomers.

[post="47163"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The new Camaro should be no longer than the Mustang. The old Camaro was a packaging nightmare. It was huge on the outside (turned off girls) and small on the inside (turned on practical buyers). The new Mustang is at the uppermost limits in my opinon.

If GM is trying to make a Camaro for baby boomers, then they should just cancel the thing right now. They need to make a car that is appealing to the younger generation first and foremost. Get a new generation hooked on Camaros. The nostalgia people will come along if it's decent. A very close second is make it practical enough for the older buyers. Third, the vehicle needs to be well made. The quality of Camaros has ALWAYS sucked big time. Quality and reliability needs to be much improved.

Oh well, we've heard all this yapping about the upcoming Camaro for YEARS now. It's really quite frustrating. When the new Camaro HITS THE SHOWROOM and is ON SALE, I will get excited. Otherwise, GM should waste no ones time with concepts cars that won't be around for 4 years. GM should SHUT THE HELL UP and only talk when they have something that will hit the market in four MONTHS.

Mark

[nzr]

I agree, if GM rolls out a Baby-Boomer Camaro then it's over...just cancel it. They need to take a futuristic approach with *hints* of previous generations embedded. But then again, every generation of the Camaro has moved towards a more evolved design...so hopefully they will keep it up. Edited November 23, 2005 by nzr

[Carguy]

I KNEW IT!!--------Its RWD!--------Its NOT that small!---------The V8 FITS!--------Its light in weight witch is GOOD for performance!---------New KAPPA F body it is!!--------Better then ZETA due to the weight/size issue and smaller then GTO/CHALLINGER models because its a DIFFERENT CLASS OF CAR!!--------((OH PLEASE LET THIS BE TRUE!!))--------((PLEASE BUILD IT GM!!))

[mrfunji]

There are so many rumors I said f*** it. I'll believe it when I see it.

[Imaj]

Finally, I've waited 4 years for the next Camaro, Now give us a Firebird!

[ocnblu]

This is gonna be one wild ride, and I'm not talking about the car! :AH-HA_wink:

[hyperv6]

Not saying Autoweek is wrong but they also claimed the 07 Solstice will be Supercharged. We knew when they printed the story it was going Turbo. We will know soon enough. I know as late as Feb of 05 the V8 fit the Kappa because Fbodfather said it fit back then.

[Ultra Magnus]

I will be looking forward to seeing what Chevy has come up with. I dont think a stretched Kappa platform is going to work. But then again, GM doesnt pump out a lot of cars from the Solstice/Sky plant so there is a lot of unused capacity there. The Camaro would need a sister car I think just to get numbers up. What that would be, who knows. Well unless they replace the Grand prix with a rear drive four door sedan to complement the GTO.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

I'd say the most ideal dimensions for a Camaro would be 108" wheelbase, 188" overall length; 72" overall width; 53-54" height, seating 4 passengers, with at least 32" rear legroom and a minimum 13 cubic foot trunk on coupes.

[nosajwrx-7]

A nice platform mate would be the G4. IMO.

[turbo200]

G4 would be nice, but it depends on what you're trying to make. If they can decrease the weight enough to make a small pocket rocket, that would be ideal. But that's just not gonna happen. The only platform mate they can ideally make from this is a nice GTO, differentiated, and maybe a mate to the 4- door, and finally distinctively and strongly styled.

[99camaroSS]

do u guys think we will get any pictures before january? like what happend with the challenger ps. sorry i havent posted in forever but between school and trying to get my autoclub up and running i have had zero time

[Brandon Lutz]

do u guys think we will get any pictures before january? like what happend with the challenger
ps. sorry i havent posted in forever but between school and trying to get my autoclub up and running i have had zero time

[post="48061"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Doubt it. I would imagine GM wants to keep this under wraps for as long as possible to get the most public reaction from the unveiling.

[NOS2006]

Doubt it. I would imagine GM wants to keep this under wraps for as long as possible to get the most public reaction from the unveiling.

[post="48085"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Look at the C6..

[Cadillacfan]

Well, seeing how the CTS pictures leaked on the net a few weeks back and only a few saw it, I'd say something similar will happen with the camaro. Though, GM has been very fast to respond.

[99camaroSS]

i would gave anything to see it, JANUARY CANT COME SOON ENOUGH!

[hyperv6]

I expect this will be played very close to the verst just due to the name being restricted till January. If it is leaked it will be an un official leak as the Z06 was. I also would not want to be caugth doing it with the implications of the problems being resolved in Canada. One journelist was already cut off for printing too much on that topic. This program is not an recent thing, it has been a low key project for near 2 years and has little accurate info out accept for what the Fbodfather has released. With out publicity pictures or a comercial being filmed I don't expect much will get shown unless GM want't it this time. The items we see release from the Autoweek I would guess are some of the slow unoffical build up to the release. GM does not want all the focus for the next two months on the Challanger but also do not want to say the C word till they can officially can. I know things are real tight on new cars anymore, when I was shown a C6 months before it's release. I was permited to ask questions and look but if I took a picture I think you may have never seen me again. I expect many will be shocked at how far the car is to production status. This will not be a roller with no engine. I expect something along the lines of the Saturn Aura that was 90% production with only a few detail to be worked out. With the W plant closing in 2008 and the new GTO coming I expect the 2009 model year will be what we see. I don't have any 100% proof on this but from what I have been reading and seeing what GM has done on show car the last few years it would fall in line like this. I will also go out on a limb and say we might see the RWD Pontiac at Chicago? Pontiac has used Chicago for the release of new models over the last few years. I would not be suprised if they give us the first look there on the RWD. Only time will tell if I am right or wrong on the one. Remeber it is always quite before the storm and we all will know on Jan 8 what to expect. Edited November 25, 2005 by hyperv6

[aaaantoine]

If GM wanted to REALLY impress people, they'd show us a 2007 production model in January.

[hyperv6]

Why is the name being restricted until January? Is it because of the whole "No-Camaro-unless-it's-built-in-Canada" deal? If they do release the Camaro in January, I'm wondering how they will keep the buzz up for three years until 2009.

[post="48301"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

As most of us know the name was tied up because of agreement with the Canadian Auto workers union that had various stipulations before the name could be used again.

To the best that I have learned these stipulations have all been worked out and a while back I was told the name could be used again in 2006. I did not know the date but would guess it is Jan 1st due to the fact the car will be shown on Jan 8 unless the concept car is called something else till Like the SS concept II till a later time? But I don't think that will happen.


If you note the post I had with the Fbodfather invite to the Concept car and how they were chosen he never once calls it a Camaro. This is a good example of the care that needed to take place till it is all cleared up.

I suspect problems with the union and plant closing in Canada ran much deeper than any of us could have ever realize. The Hudkins story in PHR is as much as any of us publicly know and much of that was not to have been made public.

We might get lucky and Scott S will write that book someday, as from just some of what I have learned it would be on heck of a story and would really give credit to many who have supported our car and dream.

[Chazman]

I expect many will be shocked at how far the car is to production status. This will not be a roller with no engine. I expect something along the lines of the Saturn Aura that was 90% production with only a few detail to be worked out. With the W plant closing in 2008 and the new GTO coming I expect the 2009 model year will be what we see.

I really don't expect a pre-production car, but merely a styling concept. What's under the skin may/will have no bearing on the production car, and the styling may only be 85% representative.

As far as GTO, I hope they get it worked out, but right now I'm not holding my breathe.

[hyperv6]

I really don't expect a pre-production car, but merely a styling concept. What's under the skin may/will have no bearing on the production car, and the styling may only be 85% representative.

As far as GTO, I hope they get it worked out, but right now I'm not holding my breathe.

[post="48402"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well I might be a little more opimistic on this speculation. I do know that work to some degree on this car has been going on for nearly a year for a fact and have been told it is near 2 years in the making. The second year I can not verifiy but is from a trusted scource. This is what leads me to believe we will see a faily well developed car. GM of late preceeds many of their new car into's by 18-24 months with 90% running show cars.

Where did I put this together from? With Post mostly from Fbodfather from last February and March with info he related to more than one person. Indicated by what we know now that they were already knew the V8 fit the Kappa then, some non specific coments on styling and the loss of the Zeta program was not an issue and things were better to proceed than ever. If the Show car is on a Kappa as it is being reported it indicates they were on to this long ago. Well know Jan 8th on that.

If this car is on a Kappa it will speed up developement time since they will not be starting from scratch like the Solstice. Also if built the enlarged Kappa I am sure will spring many new product. To make the most of a economical RWD. Kappa may be the key to keep the price with the Mustang and below where the Zeta was heading over 30K.

Pontiac has already said a GTO is being done and have seen no other published reports that they have stopped development. There are even published reports by those in the media that have disputed Autoweeks photo shop as not beign long and low enough as the car they have seen. Keep in mind these cars were started before the SUV's and slowed when the SUV's were move ahead of them.

As stated before watch for post from Fbodfather here and at CamaroZ28.com he will give you the parts of the puzzle and with other reports and info you can fit them together in time. I am watching the closing of the W plant in Canada with respect of a replacment car. A RWD sedan is to replace the W line could this be a clue to share underpinnings for the RWD coupe's? The plant closes in 2008 so GM most likley would replace the car 6 month to a year ahead of the closing with it's replacment in 2008 as a 2009? The GTO date has been stated in 2008.

At this point I would be shocked if the concept is not a driver, I do not expect another show car like the 99 fake roller GTO show car. Only time will tell us if this is right or wrong it is just my take on this. I will only worry if Scott S tells us not to keep the faith and right now he seems pretty confident.

The speculation is the fun part of this.

[Chazman]

At this point I would be shocked if the concept is not a driver, I do not expect another show car like the  99 fake roller GTO show car.  Only time will tell us if this is right or wrong it is just my take on this. I will only worry if Scott S tells us not to keep the faith and right now he seems pretty confident.

The speculation is the fun part of this.

[post="48464"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No, it won't be a "foam" car like the '99 GTO. I'm sure it's start and drive. I'm expecting something more along the lines of the original Solstice concept however. Remember, under it's skin was a cobbled up J-car platform with the Rendezvous' Versatrack IRS and diff, Subaru steering and CTS brakes.

I expect the upcoming concept to have a similarly cobbled together undercarriage....but based heavily on Sigma. As far as if it would be based on Kappa goes, you don't have to believe me, Fbodfather has already posted about in at CZ28.