Motor Trend 2006 Car of the Year

[sciguy_0504]

Wow.

[Sixty8panther]

There are two Shelby GLH-S for sale in Hemmings right now. One for $8,000 and one for $10,000. Neither is outrageously priced.

[post="50901"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Wow is right... :rotflmao: To each his own I guess!

[Hudson]

Wow is right...  :rotflmao:  To each his own I guess!

At the time, they were claimed to be quicker than the original Shelby GT350...and I'm sure they handled better.

[The O.C.]

Back to Civic.....the more I see it, the more I really like it. They've cropped up seemingly EVERYWHERE out here in SoCal..... I was driving next to a new coupe last night, and could see the dash lit up in front of the driver, and it looked really cool with the two-tier setup.....Honda's trying to mimic the cool nighttime interior lighting that VW has done so well as of late. I still prefer a traditional instrument-cluster setup.....but at least the Civic interior is quite unique and provides something different from other normal economy cars.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Starting to see more Civics around here too-the coupejust looks strange, and the sedan looks well proportioned, but I just can't get over how compromised it is.

[BrewSwillis]

At the time, they were claimed to be quicker than the original Shelby GT350...and I'm sure they handled better.

[post="51164"][/post]

[Polish_Kris]

Come on guys, don't dis the K-kar, look at this beauty:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Dodge-Aries-K-86-DODGE-...1QQcmdZViewItem

[regfootball]

.....but at least the Civic interior is quite unique and provides something different from other normal economy cars.

[post="51190"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

THE iON HAS A UNIQUE DASH ALSO.

[haypops]

THE iON HAS A UNIQUE DASH ALSO.

[post="52388"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

And is quite ergonomic too.

[regfootball]

And is quite ergonomic too.

[post="52399"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

and now digital gauges on the civic are ok when in the past in GMcars it was trashed?

i just read the MT COTY article. so full of crap. the same fusion that beat the sonata in a recent comparo gets lower scores than the Sonata in COTY testing.

whatever.

if you read the MT article you also see how the HYUNDAI AZERA is the second coming.

MT no longer represents the mass market. their viewpoint is very limited these days.

[Sixty8panther]

Come on guys, don't dis the K-kar, look at this beauty:

[post="52335"][/post]

Wow... case in point. How the hell do you put a bench seat in a car that's narrower on the inside than a Geo Prizm?


Nice photography BTW... :rolleyes:

[haypops]

[quote name='regfootball' date='Dec 3 2005, 10:23 PM']
and now digital gauges on the civic are ok when in the past in GMcars it was trashed?

My post refered directly to the ION's instruement cluster.

[rkmdogs]

i just read the MT COTY article.  so full of crap.......... 

MT no longer represents the mass market.  their viewpoint is very limited these days.

[post="52512"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

RIGHT ON, regfootball!

If you must indulge in reading this crap, make sure that you cover page 49 first.
This is the list of the so-called expert judges, and what they drive or aspire to drive!
Only two of them own American cars!..... and one doesn't even own a car right now!..... Shades of Ralph Nader criticism.
I sent them an e-mail with a comment about the objectivity of this judgine panel.
Ol' man Petersen would roll over if he could see what this French company is doing
to what used to be the most popular car mag in the country!

I sure wish that ol' Tom Macahill from Mechanix Illustrated could be reborn.
HE would tell it like it is, and not care whose toes got stepped on!!!!! :rolleyes:

[haypops]

I sure wish that ol' Tom Macahill from Mechanix Illustrated could be reborn.
HE would tell it like it is, and not care whose toes got stepped on!!!!! :rolleyes:

[post="52682"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Be careful what you wish for. I wrote to him perhjaps 50 years ago complaining about his Renalut Daulphine review and he defended that car at the expense of american cars.

[The O.C.]

THE iON HAS A UNIQUE DASH ALSO.

[post="52388"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The only thing "unique" about the ION's dash is the centrally-mounted gauge cluster...and even that is NOT unique as it's been done before.

That being said, I'd take the Civic's dual-cowl instrument cluster (in the CORRECT location in front of the driver) over the ION's arrangement.

And we don't EVEN want to begin discussing interior fit-and-finish or materials of the ION versus the new Civic.....

[The O.C.]

MT no longer represents the mass market.  their viewpoint is very limited these days.

[post="52512"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

.....why...?

Just because they didn't pick a GM vehicle? At least that's what I read into your posts...

Seems a bit narrow view of MT IMHO.....

[Polish_Kris]

The only thing "unique" about the ION's dash is the centrally-mounted gauge cluster...and even that is NOT unique as it's been done before.

That being said, I'd take the Civic's dual-cowl instrument cluster (in the CORRECT location in front of the driver) over the ION's arrangement.

And we don't EVEN want to begin discussing interior fit-and-finish or materials of the ION versus the new Civic.....

[post="53112"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

.....why...?

Just because they didn't pick a GM vehicle?  At least that's what I read into your posts...

Seems a bit narrow view of MT IMHO.....

[post="53114"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hehe, well said O.C.
B) Edited December 5, 2005 by Polish_Kris

[Flybrian]

And we don't EVEN want to begin discussing interior fit-and-finish or materials of the ION versus the new Civic.....

[post="53112"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No one was...

[regfootball]

RIGHT ON, regfootball!

If you must indulge in reading this crap, make sure that you cover page 49 first.
This is the list of the so-called expert judges, and what they drive or aspire to drive!
Only two of them own American cars!..... and one doesn't even own a car right now!..... Shades of Ralph Nader criticism.
I sent them an e-mail with a comment about the objectivity of this judgine panel.
Ol' man Petersen would roll over if he could see what this French company is doing
to what used to be the most popular car mag in the country!

I sure wish that ol' Tom Macahill from Mechanix Illustrated could be reborn.
HE would tell it like it is, and not care whose toes got stepped on!!!!! :rolleyes:

[post="52682"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

popular mechanics has better auto coverage these days from an objectivity standpoint. i cannot believe how quickly MT went from being a redneck/domestic banger book to being a full on import propaganda machine. like what 18 months?

[regfootball]

The only thing "unique" about the ION's dash is the centrally-mounted gauge cluster...and even that is NOT unique as it's been done before.

That being said, I'd take the Civic's dual-cowl instrument cluster (in the CORRECT location in front of the driver) over the ION's arrangement.

And we don't EVEN want to begin discussing interior fit-and-finish or materials of the ION versus the new Civic.....

[post="53112"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

again, when did digital speedometers all of a sudden become univerally ok'ed by the automotive press?

[regfootball]

.....why...?

Just because they didn't pick a GM vehicle?  At least that's what I read into your posts...

Seems a bit narrow view of MT IMHO.....

[post="53114"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

no, because their criteria from review to review is suspect and limited.

[regfootball]

No one was...

[post="53117"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

exactly.

[Cory Wolfe]

.....why...?

Just because they didn't pick a GM vehicle?  At least that's what I read into your posts...

Seems a bit narrow view of MT IMHO.....

[post="53114"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Let's put it this way... when C&D writes a less biased review... you know something's wrong. :P

[sciguy_0504]

.....why...?

Just because they didn't pick a GM vehicle?  At least that's what I read into your posts...

Seems a bit narrow view of MT IMHO.....

[post="53114"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No, because, as we have discussed on this board, there are better cars that should have received the award. Not just GM, whose only entry that deserve the award was the Corvette, but other manufacturers.

[Polish_Kris]

No, because, as we have discussed on this board, there are better cars that should have received the award.  Not just GM, whose only entry that deserve the award was the Corvette, but other manufacturers.

[post="53275"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I know, but what O.C. is saying is regfootball appears to be mad because MT stopped favouring GMs and other domestics.

[Sixty8panther]

I know, but what O.C. is saying is regfootball appears to be mad because MT stopped favouring GMs and other domestics.

[post="53294"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

When exactly did MT favor domestics? :huh: When the kiss Hondas ass or when the lick Toyotas? Or is it when they loved the Titan or praised the new BMWs. Please clarify.

[pow]

When exactly did MT favor domestics? :huh: When the kiss Hondas ass or when the lick Toyotas? Or is it when they loved the Titan or praised the new BMWs. Please clarify.

[post="53413"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

How about... they approve of all good cars, regardless of origin? They seem to always have "American muscle" stories.

[turbo200]

How about... they approve of all good cars, regardless of origin? They seem to always have "American muscle" stories.

[post="53423"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

this is the truth. they only favor cars that inherently drive better. they are car enthusiasts first and foremost, and they are critics as well first, it is thier job to be critical of all cars. american cars don't meet the bar, haven't for a long time, and the bar has only gotten higher and higher. you don't want to beleive it, then you are living in a dream world. MT was not biased for picking the civic, it's a solid choice. I don't really understand why all the commotion is over them choosing this car. in 2002 they picked the thunderbird, and it sure wasn't the best car out there, but they picked it because they thought it was signiifcant.

[Hudson]

No, because, as we have discussed on this board, there are better cars that should have received the award.  Not just GM, whose only entry that deserve the award was the Corvette, but other manufacturers.

And as many of us have defended, the Civic was the RIGHT choice.

[Polish_Kris]

How about... they approve of all good cars, regardless of origin? They seem to always have "American muscle" stories.

[post="53423"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Exacally, all the great magazines have good and bad things to say about everyone, pick a few of them up once in a while and read the articles, before jumping to conclusions just from reading a few sentences....

[regfootball]

i'm beginning to think MT picked the civic mainly because it offers a hybrid. in twenty years time, they want to be able to say, 'we recognized the significnace of hybrid techonology in the auto industry before everyone else' but they had to use the test numbers for the Si to justify the selection. just got C/D. the civic didn't even crack the 10best and the civic hybrid review certainly was not stellar. not bad, but in no way gushing. and by that, i mean things besides the hybrid aspect. the civic is flawed in many areas that it doesn't justify its spot. here's one -dramatic windshield rake yields no interior benefit. pulling the base of the WS forward is only a visual feature, it does not create a larger cab. in fact, isn't the wheelbase bigger but the back seat is SMALLER? 24 grand for a hybrid civic? buy a base malibu for 16 grand, get 32-35 mpg, have more room, and save the 8 grand. Edited December 6, 2005 by regfootball

[The O.C.]

again, when did digital speedometers all of a sudden become univerally ok'ed by the automotive press?

[post="53152"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hey....I HATE digital instruments.....BUT my point was that I'd take the Civic's arrangement (at least it has an analog tach) in the correct location over the ION's in the center of the dash....

[The O.C.]

When exactly did MT favor domestics? :huh: When the kiss Hondas ass or when the lick Toyotas? Or is it when they loved the Titan or praised the new BMWs. Please clarify.

[post="53413"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Maybe it's the aussie.....but MT used to be THE domestic-favoring rag. Maybe it was with C Van Tune or the guy before (I forget his name) but when, for example, C&D would rip apart a Buick or something, MT would give it a fair-to-even good review.....

They seemed better at recognizing a Buick isn't a sport sedan.....and reviewed it accordingly.....for example.....

[haypops]

.....BUT my point was that I'd take the Civic's arrangement (at least it has an analog tach) in the correct location over the ION's in the center of the dash....

[post="53763"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It really isn't important whether the instruements are in front of the driver or in the center of the dash, the important determinent is how high up they are. Thus both the civic and ION are excellent in that respect.

[The O.C.]

It really isn't important whether the instruements are in front of the driver or in the center of the dash, the important determinent is how high up they are.  Thus both the civic and ION are excellent in that respect.

[post="53770"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I disagree......I've driven an ION a few times.....and I've driven Scions.....and everytime I do, it seems really unnatural to have to glance over to the center to scan the gauges.

Yeah....maybe if you owned the car, over time, you'd "get used to it"......but why design a vehicle that you have to "get used to" in such a manner over time?

That's why I don't like the centrally-mounted gauge clusters....your gauges, speedo, etc., are probably the most important part of the vehicle that you need to pay attention to while driving. THAT, you should screw with as little as possible.

[siegen]

24 grand for a hybrid civic?  buy a base malibu for 16 grand, get 32-35 mpg, have more room, and save the 8 grand.

[post="53671"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The base model Civic (with 5sp Auto) costs $15,360 and gets 30/40 mpg. The base model Malibu (with 4sp Auto) costs $17,999 and gets 24/32 (more comparable car to the Accord). A more comparable car to the Civic would be the Cobalt. The base model Cobalt Sedan (with 4sp Auto) costs $15,340 and gets 24/32 (the manual gets a little better mileage, but most Sedan buyers will want an automatic).

The base model Accord gets 24/34 with a 5sp Auto and costs $19,025 (a little better than the Malibu, but the base model Accord also costs about a grand more than the Malibu). I'm not going to compare features though, you can do that here and here. I will say one thing though, the Accord gets better mileage and has a more powerful higher displacement engine (comparing the 4cyl's). 166 @ 5800 HP and 160 @ 4000 TQ vs 144 @ 5,600 HP and 155 @ 4,000 TQ

[haypops]

166 @ 5800 HP and 160 @ 4000 TQ vs 144 @ 5,600 HP and 155 @ 4,000 TQ

[post="54019"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

That is just 3.2% less PEAK torque for the Chevy. However it is not peak torque that is important but rather the area under the curve (torque vs RPM). The Ecotec has an usually flat torque curve and may likely be a better prerformer in that respect.

[regfootball]

you can still find a new 2005 malibu that is larger than the civic on a lot that you can buy for well under 14 grand, if economy and saving gas mileage and money is your thing. you'll pocket close to ten grand and see real world mpg at 33-38 that is not far off what hybrids are getting. and save close to ten grand. hey, just a thought for reasonable folks not consumed by image.

[siegen]

That is just 3.2% less PEAK torque for the Chevy. However it is not peak torque that is important but rather the area under the curve (torque vs RPM).  The Ecotec has an usually flat torque curve and may likely be a better prerformer in that respect.

[post="54034"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Unfortunately manufacturers do not give us any sort of dyno graph, only the peak numbers, so we will have to guess based off of the rpm numbers they give us and the displacement. You are thinking in the correct direction though. Does GM/Chevrolet have a cam-shift or cam timing mechanism in their Ecotec engines?

Unfortunately finding 4cyl comparisons is hard, since most Organizations go for the 6cyl comparo's, but I will look for some performance numbers.

you can still find a new 2005 malibu that is larger than the civic on a lot that you can buy for well under 14 grand, if economy and saving gas mileage and money is your thing. you'll pocket close to ten grand and see real world mpg at 33-38 that is not far off what hybrids are getting. and save close to ten grand. hey, just a thought for reasonable folks not consumed by image.

I was comparing EPA vs EPA. The Honda vehicles usually do very good in respect to their EPA ratings. An 2005 Accord may be harder to find, but will also save you a few grand compared to the 2006 model. Edited December 7, 2005 by siegen

[The O.C.]

Unfortunately manufacturers do not give us any sort of dyno graph, only the peak numbers, so we will have to guess based off of the rpm numbers they give us and the displacement. You are thinking in the correct direction though. Does GM/Chevrolet have a cam-shift or cam timing mechanism in their Ecotec engines?

Unfortunately finding 4cyl comparisons is hard, since most Organizations go for the 6cyl comparo's, but I will look for some performance numbers.
I was comparing EPA vs EPA. The Honda vehicles usually do very good in respect to their EPA ratings. An 2005 Accord may be harder to find, but will also save you a few grand compared to the 2006 model.

[post="54047"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

C&D did a comparo in Feb. '03, (still current generation Camry, Accord, Mazda6, etc.) and most of the cars had 4cyl engines mated to 5-speed trannys.

The Accord 4cyl is a RUNNER......now I know autos will be slower, but C&D got 0-60 in 7.5secs for the Accord, 7.9secs for the Mazda6i, 8.3secs for Camry SE....all with 4-cylinders and 5-speed manual trannys.

In fact, in C&D's 11-03 road test of the Malibu LT V6, they only achieved 7.9secs 0-60 for the V6/auto Malibu.....neck-and-neck with the 4cyl Mazda6i, and blown away by the 4cyl Accord EX from the comparo. Edited December 7, 2005 by The O.C.

[CSpec]

Unfortunately manufacturers do not give us any sort of dyno graph, only the peak numbers, so we will have to guess based off of the rpm numbers they give us and the displacement. You are thinking in the correct direction though. Does GM/Chevrolet have a cam-shift or cam timing mechanism in their Ecotec engines?

[post="54047"][/post]

Actually, GM and Honda do provide such graphs. Here are the Ecotecs in the Cobalt:




Civic:

[sciguy_0504]

I disagree......I've driven an ION a few times.....and I've driven Scions.....and everytime I do, it seems really unnatural to have to glance over to the center to scan the gauges.

Yeah....maybe if you owned the car, over time, you'd "get used to it"......but why design a vehicle that you have to "get used to" in such a manner over time?

That's why I don't like the centrally-mounted gauge clusters....your gauges, speedo, etc., are probably the most important part of the vehicle that you need to pay attention to while driving.  THAT, you should screw with as little as possible.

[post="53777"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I've driven my fair share of cars in my young life and I have no problem with the gauges being where they are in my Scion or where they were in my Grand Prix.

[siegen]

Thank you Cspec. I overlayed the TQ curves. It's odd because the Civic dyno says right on it that it peaks at 128TQ, yet the graph only shows it peaking at 123TQ. So there's probably a little margin for error.



From looking at it, it looks like the Civic's TQ curve is actually flatter and doesn't fall off as bad after 5k rpms. Remember we're only comparing the shape of the TQ curve, not the actual numbers. The Civic is definately less, but it is also almost half a liter smaller.

I don't suppose you can rummage up an '06 Accord I4 dyno? It would be a 2.4L, more comparable to the 2.4L ecotec. In fact, the only 2.2L engine Honda has, and it's not quite 2.2 at 2.157L, is the S2000 engine. And I don't think the F22C would make a very good comparison to this engine, lol.

Also, from looking at that graph of the Ecotec, I can see they do have VVT, because of the two distinct TQ curves. I found a GM site explaining it somewhat. Does anybody have a more in depth description of its workings? Does it effect cam lobe profiles at all?

[regfootball]

128 lb ft of torque...WOO HOO!

[sciguy_0504]

I finally received my copy of MT today so I was able to read the entire COTY section and make a decision, not just some knee-jerk reactionary statement I had before. Funny thing is, though, that knee-jerk reaction was right. First, it seems as if the editors picked the Civic to be COTY even before they started looking for the cars to take part in the competition. "Ok, we're picking the Civic so now what cars can we throw in to try to make it look fair?" You read the reviews for the majority of the competition and it's like they were either looking at/driving the wrong cars or they didn't look at/drive them at all. Second, I'm surprised MT didn't pick the Hyundai Azera as COTY, though they pretty much made it clear it came in 2nd place. In fact, the editors seemed to get off on all the Korean products, swooning over them like they're God's gifts to the world. I'm sorry but the Azera's interior it NOT luxury-level stuff. According to MT, Buick should be worried more about the Azera than Lexus. I wonder how much the Koreans paid MT? Third, what they said about Detroit's products was disgusting. You guys know I'm no kool-aid drinker but I was irritated with the comments being made towards everything from the Fusion to the Solstice. The humping order seemed to go like this: Korean (minus the Civic), Japanese, European, American. In case you guys didn't care like reading or couldn't read the praise given to the Civic, here are some excerpts: "Indicated redline on the Si's tach is 8000 rpm. The limiter doesn't kick in until 8500 rpm. The engine feels like it would happily spin to 10,000. Sure you could gun a Cobalt SS or Focus ZX4 ST to 8500 rpm. Once." "Is it just us or does the Si's bizarrely contoured steering wheel...somehow remind you of the mask in "Scream?" "A cockpit from 'Star Trek' - and it works." (Followed by long paragraph of why it's beautiful) "These new Civics are rolling artwork." "Easiest speedo on the market to read." Who else wants to throw up? My subscription's done and if you want to call me a "baby" or harrass me for it, go ahead. The Civic's minivan-style windshield wipers are calling your name.

[regfootball]

civics and azeras are where its at!

[siegen]

128 lb ft of torque...WOO HOO!

[post="54344"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

128 TQ is just fine for a 1.8L engine, and is equivelant to the 155 TQ the 2.2L engine makes, except the Honda engine has a more linear curve and makes closer to its peak TQ throughout the rev range when compared to the GM engine.

[regfootball]

128 TQ is just fine for a 1.8L engine, and is equivelant to the 155 TQ the 2.2L engine makes, except the Honda engine has a more linear curve and makes closer to its peak TQ throughout the rev range when compared to the GM engine.

[post="56508"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

128 torque is not enough for everyday driving.

[Cory Wolfe]

128 torque is not enough for everyday driving.

"Only in America." :P Edited December 11, 2005 by blackviper8891

[siegen]

128 torque is not enough for everyday driving.

[post="56623"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Why not? The engine is only one part of what makes a car go, not the whole. If you are judging a car entirely by its engine, you are missing the big picture.