Time to bring Holden and Opel to N.A.

[Lexcar14]

This is a long a term strategy and may be the thing needed to make GM cars wanted by the public again. I think that GM needs to bring the Holden and Opel nameplates to N. America. I don't wanna get rid of Buick, Pontiac, or Saturn, but I think the names need to be changed. Pontiacs and Buicks are just not in people's minds anymore when they think of buying a car. They are not considered 'cool' cars to own. If GM brings over those 2 new nameplates, I really think GM could make more sales. After all, those would be considered import autos, even though they're GM. When you tell someone you bought a new Buick or Pontiac, you shouldn't have to defend yourself. Bringing Holden and Opel nameplates may do the trick to get the bad perception out of people's heads.

[Cremazie]

It's an idea, but Opel is the saturn of new, just wait. Holden will engineer full size rwd cars for GM, that will save millions! They have a great plan now, they just have to follow it.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Opel still has a bad rap in the US, best to leave them rebadged saturns and not tell any1 :)

[Lexcar14]

It's true that Saturn will basically be Opel, but GM needs to shake up their lineup. It costs way too much money to dump a brand, but less expensive to change the names and logo. Chevrolet, Cadillac are fine, but something needs to be done with Pontiac and Buick especially. They're good cars, but people don't wanna say they own one. Changing names is the quickest way to change perceptions. GM can't afford to wait another decade. Look at Buick in China! They're booming! But most of the cars are just rebadged Daewoos and Opels. I think something in the reverse could be successful here. Edited November 22, 2005 by Lexcar14

[Robert Hall]

Opel still has a bad rap in the US, best to leave them rebadged saturns and not tell any1  :)

[post="46617"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It's been over 25 years since the Opel name was used in the US.... I really doubt if many buyers under 45 remember it...

[Clownzilla]

It's been over 25 years since the Opel name was used in the US.... I really doubt if many buyers under 45 remember it...

[post="46687"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'm in my mid 20's and have worked at a GM dealership for 11 years, and I see Opel as a quality product. Yes, I understand that they were junk in the past, but I see them in the same light as I see Toyota being junk in the past. Even being a GM nut, I really never think of Opel as even being sold here before. I think bringing Opel and Holden over here would get some sales. Lexcar14 is right that Opel and Holden would be "cool".
To be honest with you, I really think that Holden and Opel are "cool", and I would be glad to drive one!

[Robert Hall]

I'm in my mid 20's and have worked at a GM dealership for 11 years, and I see Opel as a quality product. Yes, I understand that they were junk in the past, but I see them in the same light as I see Toyota being junk in the past. Even being a GM nut, I really never think of Opel as even being sold here before.  I think bringing Opel and Holden over here would get some sales. Lexcar14 is right that Opel and Holden would be "cool".
To be honest with you, I really think that Holden and Opel are "cool", and I would be glad to drive one!

[post="46690"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'd have no problem with Holdens or Opels sold here..I've driven modern Opels in Europe (a Vectra and an Astra) and they were fine cars..

[CARBIZ]

The idea has merits, however. As gas hits $4 a gallon, there are a lot of cute vehicles under the Opel and Vauxhall nameplates that would sell here, especially in Canada. My buddies in Sao Paulo are driving a Chevy Astra - what a fun, great looking car. Why can't we have something like that here?

[Robert Hall]

The idea has merits, however.  As gas hits $4 a gallon, there are a lot of cute vehicles under the Opel and Vauxhall nameplates that would sell here, especially in Canada.  My buddies in Sao Paulo are driving a Chevy Astra - what a fun, great looking car.  Why can't we have something like that here?

[post="46695"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yes, also the Chevy Mexico line is a mix of US and Opel-based models...I've seen Chevy Vectras, Astras, and a 'Chevy' (Corsa) in Arizona...

[Cory Wolfe]

Hmm... I don't like this thread. Let me guess, Lexcar... you're from CA or maybe even NY, right? That sounds exactly like someone from there would say... Anyways, no, no, no, and no.

[Lexcar14]

Actually, I live in Kentucky, in the backyard of the Camry plant. Everyone around here reflexively buys Toyota, unless it's a full size truck. I just think 2 new brands in America would be a good way for GM to regain market share and get back into conversations.

[aaaantoine]

While I like Opel design, I remain generally unimpressed with Holden's designs. The only thing Holden has going for them is its blatant use of high-displacement engines and a few cool niche players. Maybe if Opel design were integrated with Holden engineering, we would have the ultimate GM import.

[wildcat]

lexcar: I thought many people feel that GM has too many brands now. (I think they should work with what they have.) So do you think they should bring 2 new makes over to NA and have to spend money acquainting the general public to them? Why not harvest whatever Saturn isn't taking from Opel for possible sharing, along with Vauxhall product, as NA Pontiac and Buick models? Edited November 22, 2005 by wildcat

[Polish_Kris]

Yes, also the Chevy Mexico line is a mix of US and Opel-based models...I've seen Chevy Vectras, Astras, and a 'Chevy' (Corsa) in Arizona...

[post="46697"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No union influence there, that's why they could import them freely from Europe.

[Lexcar14]

Well as far as introducing new brands, I think Americans are far more welcoming of something new and trendy than in other countries. Look at Scion! It's been very successful. Saturn was a new brand in 1994, when it was at the height of it sales success. New car brands can do well in N.A., and I think with Holden and Opel, GM will have its competitors reeling. GM could also regain market share it lost with Oldsmobile. It's a bold and risky move, but it's visionary and could shake up the entire auto industry in N.A.

[sciguy_0504]

Don't change the brand names but definately import the cars just as they are. Please.

[wildcat]

I thought GM is in too deep of financial straits to have money to advertise and market two new brands of cars in NA? <_< They didn't seem to have money (or ideas) to keep Buick and Pontiac where they should be.

Here's a visionary move --- make Buick what it once was. Never mind trying to convince Americans that they should buy an unknown quantity, a Holden, here. Use Holden's successes to revitalize Pontiac and Buick. Edited November 22, 2005 by wildcat

[Cory Wolfe]

Kentucky... Well, its by a Camry factory. Figures. :P I'm in northwestern PA and I can honestely tell you I see more Pontiacs than I do all Japanese companies. Pontiac is up with Chevy and Ford here. They're seen as cooler than them. Pontiacs are not cars people are embarrassed of. Welcome to Brookville, PA. Besides, Pontiac is GM's 3rd best selling brand currently. Only GMC and Chevy outsell it. Sales are declining, but it has been losing models left and right while GM continues to f**k around. GM is to blame for Pontiac's problems Not Pontiac. Changing its name would solve nothing just as changing Grand Am to G6 did nothing. For one, it's just marketing BS used to hide problems within the company. Two, it loses the public's knowledge of it. Three, it's just retarded. A name's image can be turned around. Look to history for proof. If you stop f**king around and build show-stoppers that are just that in every possible way... you're going to change perception and attract buyers. It will happen. You just have to do it and stop f**king around. GM, are you listening?!?!?

[Guest Josh]

(off topic) deleted a few posts to clean up the thread and put it back on track.

[haypops]

Saturn was a new brand in 1994

Actaully it was 1991, I think.

[hyperv6]

Saturn has a very good name and would be wasted now that they will be offering much better cars. People thing of good service and people friendly dealers the new product will fix what they are missing. Many yet still remember Opel as a rusting Buick import. Holden means nothing here and if you offered their RWD in Pontiac you would fix the product part there. Bottom line is Names are not an issue just the old product that is going out soon.

[LosAngeles]

Holden's Statesman/Caprice would make for a great Bonneville....and Commodore is, of course, Tempest!!!

[Slick_Holden]

While I like Opel design, I remain generally unimpressed with Holden's designs.  The only thing Holden has going for them is its blatant use of high-displacement engines and a few cool niche players.

Maybe if Opel design were integrated with Holden engineering, we would have the ultimate GM import.

[post="46767"][/post]

Your not impressed with these Holden's??.
And your argument for high displacement engines is very wrong. In 97 with the Holden VT they had a little 5LT V8 185kw. That model brought Holden back to life back to the top and all they had was a 5LT V8 and 3.8lt V6. So much for high displacement engines :rolleyes:
The Holden Commodore is Australia's top selling car and has been for many many years now. And will be again this year;).


I also know that Holden VE will form the base of a new Buick in 2008 if that info is right.
Edited November 24, 2005 by Slick_Holden

[Cory Wolfe]

Thanks for the pics, but... They all look outdated (that's a given) and they all look the same, especially the front. I can understand wanting a brand identity, but damn... is any differentiation at all bad? Other than body styles, they're practically the same thing, styling wise. If the new Zeta based Holdons don't all look the same... I wouldn't mind. Still, I'm only complaining about the name-changing aspect of it. You can bring the Holdens, but don't change the name. All thats doing is replacing a brand, not changing one.

[aaaantoine]

Your not impressed with these Holden's??.
And your argument for high displacement engines is very wrong. In 97 with the Holden VT they had a little 5LT V8 185kw. That model brought Holden back to life back to the top and all they had was a 5LT V8 and 3.8lt V6. So much for high displacement engines :rolleyes:
The Holden Commodore is Australia's top selling car and has been for many many years now. And will be again this year;).
I also know that Holden VE will form the base of a new Buick in 2008 if that info is right.
<insert images here>

[post="48020"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I meant high-displacement as a complement, but in my previous post, you can replace "high-displacement" with "powerful".

To be more specific about the designs...

The grille and fascia updates are looking okay, but they don't impress me. The overall profile of most Holdens is stuck in the 90's. This is the public's main gripe about the GTO.

Would I buy a Holden? Hell yes, but not for its looks.

[Slick_Holden]

Thanks for the pics, but... They all look outdated (that's a given) and they all look the same, especially the front. I can understand wanting a brand identity, but damn... is any differentiation at all bad? Other than body styles, they're practically the same thing, styling wise. If the new Zeta based Holdons don't all look the same... I wouldn't mind.

Still, I'm only complaining about the name-changing aspect of it. You can bring the Holdens, but don't change the name. All thats doing is replacing a brand, not changing one.

[post="48226"][/post]

What you need to understand is holden builds Large RWD cars. This is it.
They come in different variants. Utes LWB SWB Coupe. All these models are built off the Commodore in one way or another.
This is the Aussie GTO from HSV.
Now all these cars start there life as a Commodore. See any difference in them yet?
But on the name change it's not up to Holden it's GM desicsion same as the Monaro (GTO).

I meant high-displacement as a complement, but in my previous post, you can replace "high-displacement" with "powerful".

To be more specific about the designs...

The grille and fascia updates are looking okay, but they don't impress me.  The overall profile of most Holdens is stuck in the 90's.  This is the public's main gripe about the GTO.

Would I buy a Holden?  Hell yes, but not for its looks.

[post="48239"][/post]

Ok... The GTO(Monaro) Is based on the VT Commodore that was first build in 97. It shares more of that car then any other Holden.
The Commodores are all built on the 97 VT. This new VE will be the first major change to the car since the old VL was replaced with the VN Back in 88. This is a all new car.
This is what the Monaro (GTO) Was built on.. But as i know it most of the GTO buyer convert there GTO almost back to the Monaro look anyway.

I can show you the models as they went throught little changes or major changes but as the Commodore goes it was first built in 78. First big change to it was 86. First major change was 88. Then went to 94 for a slight make over into 97 for a major change. Now we are waiting for the VE as the biggest change in Holden history to a car. This is 100% new no carry over and we have some crappy pics if you guys are intrested. Edited November 26, 2005 by Slick_Holden

[Cory Wolfe]

What you need to understand is holden builds Large RWD cars. This is it. They come in different variants. Utes LWB SWB Coupe. All these models are built off the Commodore in one way or another.

I know that, but that doesn't mean they all have to look the same. Its cheaper, but Holden could atleast give each their own styling. Know what I mean?

Anyways, I thought Holden had more vehicles than just those... Last time I checked their website I think they did. Although, they probably didn't build them, probably just imported Opels or such. Its been a while, though...

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

But as i know it most of the GTO buyer convert there GTO almost back to the Monaro look anyway.

Really? i havent seen a single "monaro" here.

[rkmdogs]

Look at Buick in China!  They're booming!  But most of the cars are just rebadged Daewoos and Opels.  I think something in the reverse could be successful here.

[post="46624"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You smokin' them funny cigarettes again?

The only car suitable for US roads and driving distances would be the Buick
Royaum, ----- which is made by Holden, --- in Australia!

That other Chinese crap isn't even worthy to be pooped out of somebodies tailpipe!
And while our economy is bleeding to death, you want to give more money to the
Chinese? You must really have a death wish!