GMNA to Undergo Major Capacity Reduction

[jd2b]

Link



Next Significant Step in GM's North American Turnaround Plan
9 Assembly, Stamping & Powertrain Facilities, 3 SPO Facilities to Cease Operations
Total Reduction of 30,000 Positions
Total Cost Reduction Running Rate of $7 Billion by End of 2006

DETROIT - General Motors will undergo a wide-ranging restructuring of its manufacturing operations in the United States and Canada as part of its comprehensive four-point plan to return the company to profitability and long-term growth, GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner announced today.

GM's next step in its North American turnaround plan addresses its ongoing capacity utilization, a major component of reducing structural cost. A total of nine assembly, stamping and powertrain facilities and three Service and Parts Operations facilities will cease operations.

The additional actions will reduce GMNA assembly capacity by about 1 million units by the end of 2008, in addition to the previously implemented reduction of 1 million units between 2002 and 2005. Factoring in the additional capacity from GM's new Delta Township facility in Lansing, Mich., slated to begin production next year, the overall net result will be a GMNA assembly capacity of 4.2 million units. While down 30 percent since 2002, this capacity level will still provide GM plenty of flexibility to anticipate and meet market demand, but in a much more cost-effective manner. A total of 30,000 manufacturing positions will be eliminated from 2005 through 2008.

"The decisions we are announcing today were very difficult to reach because of their impact on our employees and the communities where we live and work," Wagoner added. "But these actions are necessary for GM to get its costs in line with our major global competitors. In short, they are an essential part of our plan to return our North American operations to profitability as soon as possible.

"We continue to be equally committed to revenue drivers - introducing compelling new cars and trucks, and executing our revitalized sales and marketing strategy - and we have received ratification of the agreement with the UAW, which will help significantly to address our health-care cost challenges," Wagoner said. "We are making steady and significant progress in implementing the plan to turn around our U.S. business."

The following six assembly plant sites will be affected in the years indicated:

Oklahoma City, Okla., will cease production in early 2006.
Lansing, Mich., Craft Centre will cease production in mid-2006.
Spring Hill, Tenn., Plant/Line No. 1, will cease production at the end of 2006.
Doraville, Ga., will cease production at the end of its current products' lifecycle in 2008.
The third shift will be removed at Oshawa Car Plant No. 1, in Ontario, Canada, in the second half of 2006. Subsequently, Oshawa Car Plant No. 2 will cease production after the current product runs out in 2008.
The third shift will be removed at Moraine, Ohio, during 2006, with timing to be based on market demand.

Capacity-related actions affecting stamping, Service & Parts Operations and powertrain facilities include:

The Lansing, Mich., Metal Center will cease production in 2006.
The Pittsburgh, Pa., Metal Center will cease production in 2007.
The Parts Distribution Center in Portland, Ore., will cease operations in 2006; the Parts Distribution Center in St. Louis, Mo., will cease warehousing activities and will be converted to a collision center facility in 2006; the Parts Processing Center in Ypsilanti, Mich., will cease operations in 2007. One additional Parts Processing Center, to be announced at a later date, will also cease operations in 2007.
The competitiveness of all unitizing (packaging) operations at the Pontiac, Drayton Plains, and Ypsilanti Processing Centers in Michigan, as well as portions of the unitizing operations at the Flint, Mich., Processing Center will be evaluated in accordance with the provisions of the GM-UAW national agreement.
St. Catharines Ontario Street West powertrain components facility in Ontario, Canada, will cease production in 2008.
The Flint, Mich., North 3800 engine facility ("Factory 36") will cease production in 2008.
Given the demographics of GM's workforce, the company plans to achieve much of the job reduction via attrition and early retirement programs. GM will work with the leadership of its unions, as any early retirement program would need to be mutually agreed upon. GM hopes to reach an agreement on such a plan as soon as possible.

"These are difficult moves that will affect thousands of dedicated GM employees and families, as well as state and local governments," Wagoner said. "We will work our hardest to mitigate that impact."

There will be a significant restructuring charge in conjunction with this capacity announcement, and also with any related early retirement program. The details of these charges will be provided when available.

Wagoner also said the company has further accelerated its efforts in structural cost reduction, raising the previously indicated $5 billion running rate cost reduction plan in North America to $6 billion by the end of 2006. In addition, GM continues to pursue its plans to target $1 billion in net material cost savings. In total, the plan is to achieve $7 billion of cost reductions on a running rate basis by the end of 2006 - $1 billion above the previously indicated target.

"Our collective goal remains the same: to return our North American operations to sustained profitability as soon as possible, thereby helping to ensure a strong General Motors for the future," Wagoner concluded.

General Motors Corp. (NYSE: GM), the world's largest automaker, has been the global industry sales leader since 1931. Founded in 1908, GM today employs about 325,000 people around the world. It has manufacturing operations in 32 countries and its vehicles are sold in 200 countries. In 2004, GM sold nearly 9 million cars and trucks globally, up 4 percent and the second-highest total in the company's history. GM's global headquarters are at the GM Renaissance Center in Detroit. More information on GM can be found at www.gm.com.

###

Forward-looking Statements

In this press release and in related comments by General Motors management, our use of the words "expect, anticipate, design, estimate, forecast, initiative, objective, plan, goal, project, outlook, priorities, target, intend, evaluate, seek, impact" and similar expressions, including references to what the future implementation of our restructuring plan and the tentative health-care agreement with the UAW will achieve, and when, in terms of cost savings and capacity reduction, is intended to identify forward-looking statements. While these statements represent our current judgment on what the future may hold, and we believe these judgments are reasonable, actual results may differ materially due to numerous important factors that are described in GM's most recent report on SEC Form 10-K, which may be revised or supplemented in subsequent reports on SEC Forms 10-Q and 8-K. Such factors include, among others, the following: the ability of GM to realize production efficiencies, to achieve reductions in costs as a result of the restructuring and health-care cost reductions and to implement capital expenditures, all at the levels and times planned by management; the pace of product introductions; significant changes in the competitive environment; changes in laws, regulations and tax rates; the ability of the corporation to achieve reductions in cost and employment levels to realize production efficiencies and implement capital expenditures at levels and times planned by management; changes in relations with unions and employees/retirees and the legal interpretations of the agreements with those unions with regard to employees/retirees; shortages of and price increases for fuel; labor strikes or work stoppages; market acceptance of the corporation's new products; additional credit rating downgrades; and changes in economic conditions, commodity prices, currency exchange rates or political stability.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Oklahoma City, Okla., will cease production in early 2006.

Isn't this the GMT360 extended vehicle (Trailblazer EXT/Envoy XL/Envoy XL Denali) production site?

Lansing, Mich., Craft Centre will cease production in mid-2006.

Goodbye SSR... It's a real shame. Too bad the vehicle wasn't more practical or affordable.

Spring Hill, Tenn., Plant/Line No. 1, will cease production at the end of 2006.

This is sad more for sentimental reasons.... What GM did with Saturn as a company as far as marketing and creating a 'culture' was remarkable and widely heralded. It's something that they should continue to pursue eventhough the Saturn HQ is no longer in operation.

Doraville, Ga., will cease production at the end of its current products' lifecycle in 2008.

The end of the CSVs as we know it?

The third shift will be removed at Oshawa Car Plant No. 1, in Ontario, Canada, in the second half of 2006. Subsequently, Oshawa Car Plant No. 2 will cease production after the current product runs out in 2008.

Wow... That is somewhat of a shocker to me. Aren't these the facilities that produce some of GM's best selling models, not to mention some of the highest quality facilities in the industry?

Secondly, could this mean the introduction of a major new architecture? Last estimates for the new GTO were 2008 right?

[I hope GMRULES again]

Disgusting. Another nail in the GM coffin. Closing Oshawa #2 their most productive plant probably because if GM Canada didn't take some of the hit the UAW would go bananas.Eliminating a third shift at Oshawa #1 so I guess they've conceded that the Impala will never reach the sales of 300k again like a few years back. They sure are making it tough for the GM faithful. I have to wonder if I want to keep living in the past or if maybe I should just move on and be a fan of a car company of the future. RIP

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Disgusting. Another nail in the GM coffin. Closing Oshawa #2 their most productive plant probably because if GM Canada didn't take some of the hit the UAW would go bananas.Eliminating a third shift at Oshawa #1 so I guess they've conceded that the Impala will never reach the sales of 300k again like a few years back. They sure are making it tough for the GM faithful. I have to wonder if I want to keep living in the past or if maybe I should just move on and be a fan of a car company of the future.

RIP

[post="46010"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

That's what I'm worried about....

I thought the Impala was doing, and always has done well. Sure, I could see a reduction when the GP goes out of production IF GM replaces it with a RWD G8 but other than that I don't know.... Unless they have a lot of built in capacity up there that is not being used or unless GM is going to try to grow the G6, Aura and Malibu into their mainstay volume cars to compete with the CamCordImas of the world.

It does bother me that GM is crippling/destroying one of their highest ranked facilities and I hope this isn't them conceding the car market and saying; "Maybe someday sales will rebound, but right now we can't justify the investment" because that would be typical old GM think; to handicapp themselves with an outdated design and then think that the market is drying up.

[thegriffon]

Oklahoma City, Okla., will cease production in early 2006. Bye-bye GMT 370s. Lansing, Mich., Craft Centre will cease production in mid-2006. No more SSR Spring Hill, Tenn., Plant/Line No. 1, will cease production at the end of 2006. End of line for Ion, not Spring Hill. Doraville, Ga., will cease production at the end of its current products' lifecycle in 2008. End of the line for the CSVs. The third shift will be removed at Oshawa Car Plant No. 1, in Ontario, Canada, in the second half of 2006. Sales not so hot for Impala Subsequently, Oshawa Car Plant No. 2 will cease production after the current product runs out in 2008. No more midsize W-bodies (and no more 3800). The third shift will be removed at Moraine, Ohio, during 2006, with timing to be based on market demand. Lower demand for GMT 360s

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Spring Hill, Tenn., Plant/Line No. 1, will cease production at the end of 2006.
End of line for Ion, not Spring Hill.

Thanks for clearing that up, it's great to hear!

The third shift will be removed at Oshawa Car Plant No. 1, in Ontario, Canada, in the second half of 2006.
Sales not so hot for Impala

This is a complete and total shocker to me... It seems that the Impala is doing well around here and was getting good reviews and selling well everywhere else.

I thought for sure it would continue building momentum from the last model (Of course, a lot of the last model was fleet)

[GM GUY]

Toyota would be stupid not to buy some of these modern plants.

[rimtrim]

Subsequently, Oshawa Car Plant No. 2 will cease production after the current product runs out in 2008.
No more midsize W-bodies (and no more 3800).

I find this one the most interesting. They will have to replace the LaCrosse with something, unless they are going to can Buick altogether. Rumors before were that new RWD cars would come out of Oshawa #2 after the W-cars are done. I guess not. If the LaCrosse replacement is a FWD on Epsilon instead, where would it be built? Isn't the existing Epsilon plant (Fairfax) already at capacity?

-Andrew L Edited November 21, 2005 by rimtrim

[I hope GMRULES again]

I find this one the most interesting. They will have to replace the LaCrosse with something, unless they are going to can Buick altogether. Rumors before were that new RWD cars would come out of Oshawa #2 after the W-cars are done. I guess not. If the LaCrosse replacement is a FWD on Epsilon instead, where would it be built? Isn't the existing Epsilon plant (Fairfax) already at capacity?

-Andrew L

[post="46032"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I have been seeing TV commercials about the Lacrosse lately and one of them says "Built in the best plant in North America according to JD Power" , and now they are closing it, what a disgrace.

Fairfax isn't at capacity now but probably will be when the Aura is added there next fall. They could give Buick an Epsilon car and build it along side the G6 in Orion cause that plant could easily use another 100k worth of production. The big question now is what replaces Lacrosse and Grand Prix.

[Polish_Kris]

Not suprised, I knew this would happen. It's pretty sad, if you put yourself in these people's shoes. Who are losing their jobs because of their employer's stupidity. Mainly their union the UAW/CAW who are making GM spend more than they make. So what's the point of this union anyways??? It's not protecting it's workers, cause now 30,000 of them wont have jobs! I go to school in Oshawa, and I know there will be allot of sad faces walking around the campus soon. Edited November 21, 2005 by Polish_Kris

[Drew Dowdell]

And a big congratulations goes out to the UAW for making this possible. </sarcasm>

[BrewSwillis]

Not suprised, I knew this would happen. It's pretty sad, if you put yourself in these people's shoes. Who are losing their jobs because of their employer's stupidity. Mainly their union the UAW/CAW who are making GM spend more than they make. So what's the point of this union anyways???  It's not protecting it's workers, cause now 30,000 of them wont have jobs!  I go to school in Oshawa, and I know there will be allot of sad faces walking around the campus soon.

[post="46043"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Keep buyin Toyotas, and you will see alot more sad faces in the US and Canada. Cheaper (some would even say unfair) Asian competition is what is ruining GM, not particulally the UAW. The UAW has been around for many, many, years with out any real problems.

[steamer]

I can't believe Janesville Assembly dodged the bullet! It deserved to get the axe many times over with their cooperative workforce. Not my problem now, I'm glad I'm out of there, both Janesville Assembly and GM.

[cardood]

And a big congratulations goes out to the UAW for making this possible.
</sarcasm>

[post="46045"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You can't place the sole blame on the UAW. GM needs to build world class vehicles that consumers actually want to buy(without artificial demand).

c|d

[Shantanu]

I wonder what the Rick Wagoner apologists think of this move. GM is going to shrivel up into a shadow of its former self. What a sad day.

[Polish_Kris]

Keep buyin Toyotas, and you will see alot more sad faces in the US and Canada.  Cheaper (some would even say unfair) Asian competition is what is ruining GM, not particulally the UAW.  The UAW has been around for many, many, years with out any real problems.

[post="46048"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The UAW has allot to do with this. GM had to cut costs to accompony the UAW's needs. Therefore quality did go down, because they had to buy cheaper parts, therefore, reliability goes down, and resale value, its a whole ripple effect. That's why people went for the Japs. And that is what brought down the American Auto Industry. If GM did not have to worry about the UAW, they would spend billions more into PRODUCT instead of politics.

[Polish_Kris]

You can't place the sole blame on the UAW. GM needs to build world class vehicles that consumers actually want to buy(without artificial demand).

c|d

[post="46051"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

They can't do that, because they can't afford it. The have to spend the money they would have on product, on the UAW.

[Shantanu]

Any way you cut it, this is the worst day for GM, *ever*. :(

[I hope GMRULES again]

I wonder what the Rick Wagoner apologists think of this move.

GM is going to shrivel up into a shadow of its former self.

What a sad day.

[post="46053"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

They already have.

[ehaase]

If the LaCrosse replacement is a FWD on Epsilon instead, where would it be built?

[post="46032"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Perhaps the Lucerne and Enclave will be the only Buick products after the 2008 model year.

[Cremazie]

Subsequently, Oshawa Car Plant No. 2 will cease production after the current product runs out in 2008.
No more midsize W-bodies (and no more 3800).

There goes one of the Auto industry's highest quality plants. ( I don't suspect they will win a quality award this year, morale has to be zero)

[cmattson]

I'm shocked that the new Impala isn't doing better. Granted that the external styling is nothing knock-your-socks off, but the interior is lights-out fantastic. Nice textures, nice feel on the radio controls, etc. I just drove my co-worker's less-than-a-week-old SS and it rocked. Steering had a nice feel to it, the traction control worked nicely when I put it into action. It seems like a nice, tight package. Perhaps the price is a little on the high side? I echo the Edmunds review when they called it the best Chevy sedan in quite some time.

[Cremazie]

I'm shocked that the new Impala isn't doing better.  Granted that the external styling is nothing knock-your-socks off, but the interior is lights-out fantastic.  Nice textures, nice feel on the radio controls, etc.  I just drove my co-worker's less-than-a-week-old SS and it rocked.  Steering had a nice feel to it, the traction control worked nicely when I put it into action.  It seems like a nice, tight package.  Perhaps the price is a little on the high side?  I echo the Edmunds review when they called it the best Chevy sedan in quite some time.

[post="46075"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The reason is it is against sales numbers of an incentive laden Impala.

[Guest gmrebirth]

Keep buyin Toyotas, and you will see alot more sad faces in the US and Canada.  Cheaper (some would even say unfair) Asian competition is what is ruining GM, not particulally the UAW.  The UAW has been around for many, many, years with out any real problems.

[post="46048"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Oh give me a break. Using that logic, European cars are also "ruining GM" because the Euro is sliding, and European makers have a slight cost advantage over domestic makers.

We live in a global economy. There are no longer "domestic" or "foreign" cars. Toyotas are built and designed in the US, Fords are built in Mexico, some GM cars are sourced from Korea. Globalization is a reality.

What "ruined" GM is GM itself; or rather the incompetent management which has run the company for so long. The same management that put out crap products in the 70s in 80s, causing a huge loss in consumer confidence, and a big boost for the Asian makers. Also it was management that agreed to ridiculous UAW contracts in the 80s, believing that GM was invinsible, because all they saw were profits for the short term, and they failed to look at the long term. It was also management that got GM near bankruptcy in the early 90s. It was also management that continually kept making false promises to people, which has led to a loss of trust in consumers, Wall Street, and the media, not to mention more of a boost for Asian automakers.

[Polish_Kris]

Oh give me a break. Using that logic, European cars are also "ruining GM" because the Euro is sliding, and European makers have a slight cost advantage over domestic makers.

We live in a global economy. There are no longer "domestic" or "foreign" cars. Toyotas are built and designed in the US, Fords are built in Mexico, some GM cars are sourced from Korea. Globalization is a reality.

What "ruined" GM is GM itself; or rather the incompetent management which has run the company for so long. The same management that put out crap products in the 70s in 80s, causing a huge loss in consumer confidence, and a big boost for the Asian makers. Also it was management that agreed to ridiculous UAW contracts in the 80s, believing that GM was invinsible, because all they saw were profits for the short term, and they failed to look at the long term. It was also management that got GM near bankruptcy in the early 90s. It was also management that continually kept making false promises to people, which has led to a loss of trust in consumers, Wall Street, and the media, not to mention more of a boost for Asian automakers.

[post="46079"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Exacally! what I'm saying!

Some people on this board should stop blaming the imports for GM's problems!

[caddycruiser]

Doraville, Ga., will cease production at the end of its current products' lifecycle in 2008.

Okay, so when the current craptacular CSV's are done, the idea is done for good?

I could REALLY see that being a logical choice, ESPECIALLY if the upcoming Lambda crossovers offer just as much space, but don't suffer from the minivan stigma.

Other than that question, they all seem pretty in line to me, except for the Oshawa thing....but maybe we'll hear more about that soon. :huh: Edited November 21, 2005 by caddycruiser

[regfootball]

media 1, GM 0

[Polish_Kris]

media 1, GM 0

[post="46095"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Here we go again............ <_<

[Flybrian]

Here we go again............  <_<

[post="46098"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Want a tissue?

[regfootball]

part of this is the result of people living in a self defeatist state. its NOT AT ALL good if its American designed or made. it extends to more than just cars, but at the root of this is the love of all things NOT AMERICAN as the answer to all our own problems and insecurities. I am not saying, don't buy what's right for you, or what your choice is. I am saying, do the proper research, make the choice YOURSELF, and TRY to look past the media hype from time to time. Status is a main reason folks buy imports in droves, moreso than the whole 'Toyota has legendary reliability' thing. We can't have any importance in this great big world, if we buy the unfashionable car (Chevy). We need to buy an import to make us seem smarter, hipper, more attractive to all our friends. We need popular culture and the media to tell us what we should drive. That's not to suggest that a lot of the domestics products still don't suck in some/many ways..for example, a 2006 Lucerne with a dated pushrod engine in lieu of a modern 3.6.............but the problem is the image and status factor is merely amplifying what are otherwise not hugely better advantages, if any, in a lot of market segments. Eventually, a whole new wave of folks who have never owned Toytas before but lived through a life cycle owning one will one day discover what the WEAKNESSES are. Toyota's historical customer clientele is so blind/sheepish in accepting whatever is bad about the products now, but if a whole new breed of customers who have never experienced them before start whing about things like flimsy sheetmetal, thin paint, undurable suspension components, poor sales and serivce experiences due to arrogance, blandness, costlier parts and service.......... it will take years to breed the UNSATISFIED toyota customers. its is time for a protectionist movement IMHO in this country, in many industries. this article alone could sow the seeds of such a movement. buy what you need and like...import or domestic..... but PLEASE America, don't BLINDLY discount your American companies. Make the choice yourself, and please, at least drive their products yourself first. those 30,000 laid off folks are now on YOUR payroll (i.e. your tax dollars). WHEN toyota officially becomes #1, they will assume the position of being targeted by consumer groups, they will be the main target by lawsuit happy plaintiffs and their lawyers. The press, legal community, customers, EVERYONE will then say....MMMMMM here's our new king of the hill. WE NEED TO BRING THEM DOWN! it will become interesting to see how Toyota acts on the defensive in that position. They will not be able to get away with all the pompous advertising they do now. They will not be able to the 'know it alls' they profess to be. The game will become different, and they will be marked. I hope they know the saying 'you get what you ask for'. Edited November 21, 2005 by regfootball

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I'm shocked that the new Impala isn't doing better.  Granted that the external styling is nothing knock-your-socks off, but the interior is lights-out fantastic.  Nice textures, nice feel on the radio controls, etc.  I just drove my co-worker's less-than-a-week-old SS and it rocked.  Steering had a nice feel to it, the traction control worked nicely when I put it into action.  It seems like a nice, tight package.  Perhaps the price is a little on the high side?  I echo the Edmunds review when they called it the best Chevy sedan in quite some time.

[post="46075"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

People have been conditioned to not give domestics a second look.

Doesn't matter how good they are. Just my opinion.

We live in a global economy. There are no longer "domestic" or "foreign" cars. Toyotas are built and designed in the US, Fords are built in Mexico, some GM cars are sourced from Korea. Globalization is a reality.

I disagree... The money (profit) STILL goes somewhere, either America or Japan.

Some people on this board should stop blaming the imports for GM's problems!

But they are part of the problem. Simply being "the competition" makes them that no matter how you look at it.

Here we go again............ 


Want a tissue?

LOL :D

More like Media: 100 GM: -10

[caddycruiser]

Another question--why isn't Janesville going down the tubes? It's beyond ancient and I really don't think the General is going to need 3 different plants for the new SUV's, especially considering their more realistic volume outlook. Silao, Mexico and Arlington, Texas would seem more than enough to me.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

[quote]part of this is the result of people living in a self defeatist state.

its NOT AT ALL good if its American designed or made.

it extends to more than just cars, but at the root of this is the love of all things NOT AMERICAN as the answer to all our own problems and insecurities.

I am not saying, don't buy what's right for you, or what your choice is.  I am saying, do the proper research, make the choice YOURSELF, and TRY to look past the media hype from time to time.  Status is a main reason folks buy imports in droves, moreso than the whole 'Toyota has legendary reliability' thing.

We can't have any importance in this great big world, if we buy the unfashionable car (Chevy).  We need to buy an import to make us seem smarter, hipper, more attractive to all our friends.

We need popular culture and the media to tell us what we should drive.[/quote]

EXACTLY!!!! Excellent post!!!!

[quote]That's not to suggest that a lot of the domestics products still don't suck in some/many ways..for example, a 2006 Lucerne with a dated pushrod engine in lieu of a modern 3.6.............but the problem is the image and status factor is merely amplifying what are otherwise not hugely better advantages, if any, in a lot of market segments.[/quote]

Again, excellent remarks!!!

[quote]Eventually, a whole new wave of folks who have never owned Toytas before but lived through a life cycle owning one will one day discover what the WEAKNESSES are.  Toyota's historical customer clientele is so blind/sheepish in accepting whatever is bad about the products now, but if a whole new breed of customers who have never experienced them before start whing about things like flimsy sheetmetal, thin paint, undurable suspension components, poor sales and serivce experiences due to arrogance, blandness, costlier parts and service..........

it will take years to breed the UNSATISFIED toyota customers.[/quote]

I don't think there will ever be an anti-Toyota customer base. The media will not allow it, they're too influencial.

[quote]its is time for a protectionist movement IMHO in this country, in many industries.  this article alone could sow the seeds of such a movement.[/quote]

Doubtful, but that would be nice...

[quote]buy what you need and like...import or domestic..... but PLEASE America, don't BLINDLY discount your American companies.  Make the choice yourself, and please, at least drive their products yourself first.[/quote]

It'll never happen.

[quote]those 30,000 laid off folks are now on YOUR payroll (i.e. your tax dollars).[/quote]

Which is priceless!

[quote]WHEN toyota officially becomes #1, they will assume the position of being targeted by consumer groups, they will be the main target by lawsuit happy plaintiffs and their lawyers.  The press, legal community, customers, EVERYONE will then say....MMMMMM here's our new king of the hill.  WE NEED TO BRING THEM DOWN![/quote]

Doubtful, but that would be nice...

[quote]it will become interesting to see how Toyota acts on the defensive in that position.[/quote]

Perfectly, just like with everything else.

[quote]They will not be able to get away with all the pompous advertising they do now.  They will not be able to the 'know it alls' they profess to be.  The game will become different, and they will be marked.  I hope they know the saying 'you get what you ask for'.

[post="46109"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

[/quote]

I certainly hope so.

[regfootball]

People have been conditioned to not give domestics a second look.

Doesn't matter how good they are. Just my opinion.

[post="46110"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

dude, they don't even give em a FIRST LOOK. I bet 2/3 of the US population, especially weathy corporate types, 'movers and shakers', execs, 'professionals', urbanites, liberals, soccer moms, ....domestics NEVER enter their radar. Edited November 21, 2005 by regfootball

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

dude, they don't even give em a FIRST LOOK.  I bet 2/3 of the US population, especially weathy corporate types, 'movers and shakers', execs, 'professionals', urbanites, liberals, soccer moms, ....domestics NEVER enter their radar.

[post="46124"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree 100%

That's why the Camry and Accord, for example, are so popular IMO. To many people they're the only choices..

And what's sad is that OTHER non-American companies can easily make it onto the list (Like Nissan) yet domestics can't.

In order to succeed in the future I think Detroit Inc is going to have to be as good at engineering PR and image as they are cars.

[regfootball]

I agree 100%

That's why the Camry and Accord, for example, are so popular IMO. To many people they're the only choices..

And what's sad is that OTHER non-American companies can easily make it onto the list (Like Nissan) yet domestics can't.

In order to succeed in the future I think Detroit Inc is going to have to be as good at engineering PR and image as they are cars.

[post="46125"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

yes.

they are also good at engineering incentives. <_<

what will REALLY PISS ME OFF this next year is if the new POS HYundai AZERA makes a big splash and gets all sorts of sales and press. Edited November 21, 2005 by regfootball

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

yes.

they are also good at engineering incentives. <_<

what will REALLY PISS ME OFF this next year is if the new POS HYundai AZERA makes a big splash and gets all sorts of sales and press.

[post="46126"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Might as well get the punching bag because I think we both know the answer to that one.

[ehaase]

I wonder if it's a coincidence that the many of the GM plants being closed are in Republican dominated states (Tennessee, Georgia, Oklahoma). The GOP is least likely to bail out GM and certainly would never consider national health care. There is a strong likelihood that the Atlanta, GA area will lose two assembly plants - both the GM minivans plant and Ford's Taurus plant near the airport. The latest rumors are that Ford will not build the new Lincolns there; instead, the Lincolns may be built either in Chicago or in Wixom.

[regfootball]

my dark blue new 500 was parked next to a new dark blue camry at the grocery store yesterday. as i looked at them side by side, same color and all, i struggled to understand why the camry would be considered a superior car by so many. Edited November 21, 2005 by regfootball

[Guest gmrebirth]

my dark blue new 500 was parked next to a new dark blue camry at the grocery store yesterday.

as i looked at them side by side, same color and all, i struggled to understand why the camry would be considered a superior car by so many.

[post="46131"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Your 500 doesn't compete with the Camry.

And you're comparing your NEW 500 to an OLD (dated, end of it's generation) Camry.

[Cadillacfan]

Although I think this move is going to be bad for the workers, it will benefit GM in the end. The S&P dropped GM into junk status because not only was it losing money due to poor product but because they had too many factories and were spending too much money on them. The junk status is supposed to get GM to start cutting off the fat more aggressively and try to turn a profit.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

my dark blue new 500 was parked next to a new dark blue camry at the grocery store yesterday.

as i looked at them side by side, same color and all, i struggled to understand why the camry would be considered a superior car by so many.

I wondered the same thing this weekend at the auto show... Style-wise Detroit has the advantage, power-wise Detroit has the overall advantage and value-wise Detroit has the advantage...

So, that leaves 1) reliability, which is a moot point this day in age and 2) the need to feel 'correct' and 'educated' in your decision to purchase.

Therefore, IMO, The real CORE problem is image, which is of course controlled by the media. GM and Ford have failed to educate the consumer of many things and the media has twisted the knife as much as they can.

Your 500 doesn't compete with the Camry.

It most certainly does.

And you're comparing your NEW 500 to an OLD (dated, end of it's generation) Camry.

It's the only Camry for sale right now, is it not? I'd venture to say that the average Camry buyer doesn't even know that a new camry is so close to debuting.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The Oshawa #2 and Spring Hill #1 are smoke and mirrors.  Both Oshawa and Spring Hill will be renovated and updated with C-Flex production technology and become flexible one manufacturing operations.  Both plants have products slated for them, so there futures are secure.  This a a day that has had to happen for years, it's tough, but this will secure GM's future as they realign capacity to natural demand.  This isn't the end folks, but a bold new beginning for GM.  Rest assured GM isn't going bankrupt anytime soon and will make inroads in the near future.

[post="46136"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

As always, thank you for the ray of hope AH-HA!

[Hudson]

Toyota would be stupid not to buy some of these modern plants.

Toyota would be stupid if they DID buy one of these plants. With these plants comes the UAW. Aside from Spring Hill, none of these plants are near Toyota's supplier base. And Toyota's looking to build a new, even more modern plant.

Except for Spring Hill, which is 16 years old, none of these plants are particularly modern. All of Toyota's plants are newer than the rest of these closures.

[Guest gmrebirth]

It most certainly does.

It's the only Camry for sale right now, is it not? I'd venture to say that the average Camry buyer doesn't even know that a new camry is so close to debuting.

Really? The 500 competes with the Camry?

I wonder what the Fusion competes with ... the Avalon :rolleyes:?

The 500 is FULL size ... thus it competes with the Avalon.

The Camry is midsize, and clearly it is the Fusion that competes with it.

Look around ... all comparison tests pit the Camry against the Fusion, and the 500 against the Avalon.

...

But wait just a minute, when other people start comparing the 500 to the Avalon, 500 fans immediately are on the defensive saying "oh just wait till next year, when the 500 gets a new engine, and AWD, and etc.".

So if 500 fans do it, it is not reasonable for me to say the same? Especially considering the 500 vs. Camry is a flawed comparison to begin with?

[Shantanu]

I wondered the same thing this weekend at the auto show... Style-wise Detroit has the advantage, power-wise Detroit has the overall advantage and value-wise Detroit has the advantage...

So, that leaves 1) reliability, which is a moot point this day in age and 2) the need to feel 'correct' and 'educated' in your decision to purchase.

Therefore, IMO, The real CORE problem is image, which is of course controlled by the media. GM and Ford have failed to educate the consumer of many things and the media has twisted the knife as much as they can.
It most certainly does.
It's the only Camry for sale right now, is it not? I'd venture to say that the average Camry buyer doesn't even know that a new camry is so close to debuting.

[post="46147"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You're driving a 500 now? Congratulations.

[Hudson]

I disagree... The money (profit) STILL goes somewhere, either America or Japan.
But they are part of the problem. Simply being "the competition" makes them that no matter how you look at it.

Much of Toyota's money (from US market vehicles) goes into investing in the US, Canada, and Mexico. Just because the company is based in Japan doesn't mean all the money leaves the country. How many Toyota plants and R&D facilities and design facilities have been built in the past 15 years? How many new GM plants have opened in the same time frame? How many Toyota plants have CLOSED? How many GM plants have closed?

Where's GM's investment been in the past 10 years? Half of Saab....half of Daewoo...a few billion to Fiat...a few hundred million to Fuji....expansions in China...

[turbo200]

in price, the 500 is entirely competitive with the camry, except for incentivized Camrys, which are the norm around here I guess. In versatility, dynamics and roominess the 500 easily trounces the Camry. Not so sure about engine performance [haven't driven them back to back], and interior quality definitely still goes to the Camry.

[Hudson]

dude, they don't even give em a FIRST LOOK.  I bet 2/3 of the US population, especially weathy corporate types, 'movers and shakers', execs, 'professionals', urbanites, liberals, soccer moms, ....domestics NEVER enter their radar.

Odd...when more than half the vehicles sold in the US last year were built by GM, Ford or Chrysler....but 2/3 of potential buyers aren't even looking at domestics? Does that mean that more than half of the potential buyers who don't look at domestics just won't buy a car instead of looking at a domestic?

And how do you define yourself if you don't fall into "wealthy corporate types, 'movers and shakers', execs, 'professionals', urbanites, liberals, soccer moms...."?

[Hudson]

I wonder if it's a coincidence that the many of the GM plants being closed are in Republican dominated states (Tennessee, Georgia, Oklahoma).  The GOP is least likely to bail out GM and certainly would never consider national health care. There is a strong likelihood that the Atlanta, GA area will lose two assembly plants - both the GM minivans plant and Ford's Taurus plant near the airport.  The latest rumors are that Ford will not build the new Lincolns there; instead, the Lincolns may be built either in Chicago or in Wixom.

As much as that might seem like a good answer (and I'm not saying it's not a contributing factor), Ford's decision on Atlanta and GM's decision on Oklahoma City and Doraville fall into other categories. For GM, they're too far away from their supplier base. For Ford, there's no room to expand....they're physically locked into the site they have.