dealer wants to buy Pontiac from GM

[wildcat]

Could it happen? Should it happen? Click here.

EDIT: Another report here.

Edited May 2, 2009 by wildcat

[MyerShift]

"Third best selling brand for GM in 2008"

[BigPontiac]

Seems like an ambitious undertaking...little concerning the "Pontiacs" he quotes are G5, G6 and Vibe...

[SAmadei]

I hope so. And I feel that any group willing to spend a non-trivial amount of money on the brand should get it, if not by the bankruptcy court then by the investors. Money is money and Pontiac is an asset that only withers if left in a drawer, like Oldsmobile.

If this new Pontiac was to be built in the US and without union labor, I bet they could be quite competitive, pricewise.

It would also be nice to see the brand properly managed by intelligent people... like how Penske is handling Smart.

Edited May 2, 2009 by SAmadei

[wildcat]

GM says Pontiac is not for sale, it must be phased out. Click here.

[Camino LS6]

GM says lots of things that end up not being true.

[wildcat]

Can you remove the other thread. No point in having two, and it belongs under Pontiac anyway.

[Satty]

http://www.notgonnahappen.net

It makes no sense for GM. They sell the name to a group that doesn't have the money to design or build their own vehicles? Thats a recipe for disaster on both sides. In no time "Pontiac" would be bankrupt (how many independant, 1-line automakers survive in the U.S.?) and GM would be stuck with the cars they built for a brand they didn't want to keep and didn't but any work into updating or replacing.

[z28luvr01]

They might as well offer it for sale. They're going to get no return on it by shutting it down. Considering that Opel, Saab, Saturn, and Hummer are on the block but not sold, you'd think GM's ears would perk up when someone offers to take an unwanted brand off their hands.

[Sixty8panther]

Prediction:

2019 A.D.

General Motors CEO "It would have been LESS costly

to keep making Pontiacs at a loss than it was to kill

the brand over the past few years."

Those who do not learn from their mistakes...

Oldsmobile comes to mind.

[Satty]

They might as well offer it for sale. They're going to get no return on it by shutting it down. Considering that Opel, Saab, Saturn, and Hummer are on the block but not sold, you'd think GM's ears would perk up when someone offers to take an unwanted brand off their hands.

So they could continue to build cars and pay outrageous union wages to workers for another company to compete with what GM is offering at BG dealers? GM wouldn't benefit from this at all.

[ehaase]

This is just silly.

[Camino LS6]

Can you remove the other thread. No point in having two, and it belongs under Pontiac anyway.

Actually, it belongs in GM news.

[Camino LS6]

So they could continue to build cars and pay outrageous union wages to workers for another company to compete with what GM is offering at BG dealers? GM wouldn't benefit from this at all.

What the hell makes you think BG will have anything comparable to Pontiac?

That just isn't going to happen.

[FAPTurbo]

[Camino LS6]

If any GM brand attempts to cover some of Pontiac's ground, it will be Chevy.

Nothing Pontiac even remotely fits the Buick brand.

[Chris_Doane]

LoL yea a couple of dealers have the money to buy/operate Pontiac.

[Camino LS6]

LoL yea a couple of dealers have the money to buy/operate Pontiac.

Correction: A group of investers that includes a couple of dealers.

[Satty]

Correction: A group of investers that includes a couple of dealers.

Unless this "group of investors" is Ford Motor Company (or Honda, or Chery, etc), they wont have the resources to do any sort of development or production, so what exactly would they be able to do other than delay the inevitable for a few months?

Edited May 2, 2009 by Satty

[wildcat]

Actually, it belongs in GM news.

Since it was about a specific division, Pontiac, I think it belongs under Pontiac. It's not general GM news.

[Bimmer325]

If any GM brand attempts to cover some of Pontiac's ground, it will be Chevy.

Nothing Pontiac even remotely fits the Buick brand.

If Buick wants to survive, they'd better start making cars that don't "fit" the Buick brand.

[Camino LS6]

Unless this "group of investors" is Ford Motor Company (or Honda, or Chery, etc), they wont have the resources to do any sort of development or production, so what exactly would they be able to do other than delay the inevitable for a few months?

Set it up as a contract build with GM. God knows good marketing hasn't been tried on Pontiac since the 70s. So, a marketing concern takes over that aspect and GM gets to keep some volume builds.

After that, it would get stickier.

But I sure would like to see someone shed the surrender mentality and give it a good shot.

Some jobs could be saved which would please the administration...

Anyway, I'd hope that the idea be explored thoroughly before being dismissed.

Someone needs to try and get something going in our domestic industry.

Do I think it has much chance?

No.

But it would be a nice surprise and I'm glad that someone is looking at it.

There is a giant hole opening in our automotive market, and I'd like to see some American players step up before the recovery cements a foreign victory.

[Camino LS6]

If Buick wants to survive, they'd better start making cars that don't "fit" the Buick brand.

In the Pontiac template?

I think not.

[Camino LS6]

Since it was about a specific division, Pontiac, I think it belongs under Pontiac. It's not general GM news.

Wrong.

It is a deal proposed to GM - by definition this is "GM news".

[Chris_Doane]

Correction: A group of investers that includes a couple of dealers.

I would guess "includes" means "largely or totally composed of."

[Camino LS6]

I would guess "includes" means "largely or totally composed of."

You could be right.

...or not.

[wildcat]

Wrong.

It is a deal proposed to GM - by definition this is "GM news".

[Bimmer325]

In the Pontiac template?

I think not.

What exactly is the "Pontiac" template? Cars like the G6? The G5? The G3? The Vibe? The G8 they didn't develop or engineer? Seriously, I want to know.

All I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense for Buick and performance to be mutually exclusive things.

[Camino LS6]

What exactly is the "Pontiac" template? Cars like the G6? The G5? The G3? The Vibe? The G8 they didn't develop or engineer? Seriously, I want to know.

All I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense for Buick and performance to be mutually exclusive things.

And I'm saying that it is.

So we disagree.

No big deal.

[Satty]

Why would GM want to continue to produce and develop cars for a brand they have made pretty clear they dont want to continue to produce and develop? It makes zero sense for GM to even consider this, unless these nameless investors have deep enough pockets to cover all the money GM would have to put into engineering and certifying these cars.

[Camino LS6]

Why would GM want to continue to produce and develop cars for a brand they have made pretty clear they dont want to continue to produce and develop? It makes zero sense for GM to even consider this, unless these nameless investors have deep enough pockets to cover all the money GM would have to put into engineering and certifying these cars.

GM's stated reason for killing Pontiac was that they didn't have the resources to pormote/market it.

And a $1 billion yearly loss for Holden

And the loss of the economies of scale on certain platforms

There would be pluses and minuses to the idea.

But I know you'd much rather just witness a crash with its attendant carnage.

[Satty]

It would make far more sense for GM to use Holden to plug Buick and Chevy than to try to give that volume to an independent group of amateurs.

[Camino LS6]

It would make far more sense for GM to use Holden to plug Buick and Chevy than to try to give that volume to an independent group of amateurs.

Which they are stupid enough not to do...

[Croc]

And I'm saying that it is.

So we disagree.

No big deal.

Yeah, because GN and GNX never happened

This isn't 1960. The Sloan model is long gone, and GM is in survival mode. You are going to see traditional divisional lines blur, and you will have to be able to deal with that without your head exploding.

[Bimmer325]

Camino, got it.

Anyway, Pontiac hasn't been a performance brand in years. G6 owners will be more than happy with a Malibu when it comes time to trade in. If Buick wants to compete with Acura or whoever, they're going to need cars that perform. If Buick wants to die, they can keep making cars like the Lucerne.

[Camino LS6]

Yeah, because GN and GNX never happened

This isn't 1960. The Sloan model is long gone, and GM is in survival mode. You are going to see traditional divisional lines blur, and you will have to be able to deal with that without your head exploding.

Bite me, Croc.

That's just stupid.

The last thing Buick needs now is any performance oriented model.

The fusion of performance and luxury needs to be the exclusive domain of Cadillac.

Only Chevy is positioned to handle lower cost performance.

It would hurt Buick to dilute its mission to include performance oriented models.

Overlap is the enemy, remember?

[Satty]

10 years from now, only a few diehards will still be lamenting the loss of Pontiac, the same way only a few diehards still lament the loss of Oldsmobile or Plymouth or Eagle.

$h!. It happens. The world continues to turn.

[Camino LS6]

10 years from now, only a few diehards will still be lamenting the loss of Pontiac, the same way only a few diehards still lament the loss of Oldsmobile or Plymouth or Eagle.

$h!. It happens. The world continues to turn.

And 10 years from now only a few diehards will lament the end of GM, right?

BS

[wildcat]

. . . GM is in survival mode. You are going to see traditional divisional lines blur . . .

Good point. The GM with many divisions, including Pontiac and Olds, is not the same GM of the present and future with Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, and Cadillac.

. . . and you will have to be able to deal with that without your head exploding.

Another good piece of advice.

[Camino LS6]

Whatever.

Good luck making that work.

[wildcat]

Well, thats it then.

I'm done with all of this.

[Camino LS6]

Just hanging around waiting to be de-admined.

And free from the likes of you actually.

You and Satty can then enjoy pissing on Pontiac uninterrupted.

[Croc]

Bite me, Croc.

That's just stupid.

The last thing Buick needs now is any performance oriented model.

The fusion of performance and luxury needs to be the exclusive domain of Cadillac.

Only Chevy is positioned to handle lower cost performance.

It would hurt Buick to dilute its mission to include performance oriented models.

Overlap is the enemy, remember?

Never said it was the first thing they were getting, but you better believe they will get some performance eventually. I can't see those Opel transplants handling like floaty boats.

It wouldn't hurt Buick, but there's no way I will ever convince you otherwise, so I won't go into it. Buick needs good handling vehicles for its survival. At this point, GM needs to release hit after hit--no room for error. Some performance will likely be added to Buick, and the world won't end, and Cadillac will not be threatened in any way, shape or form.

Of course overlap is the enemy, but with Pontiac gone, there is nothing to overlap. I never said Buick would take on lower-cost performance, and Buick will never likely be given all the features available in Cadillacs. Buick will be the middle brand. And middle brands have to have some limited performance.

[wildcat]

As of this point GM is dead to me. Off to something else.

These are your own words, not mine. So, given what you've said, why does your opinion on ANYthing that GM does matter?

Edited May 2, 2009 by wildcat

[Croc]

Just hanging around waiting to be de-admined.

And free from the likes of you actually.

You and Satty can then enjoy pissing on Pontiac uninterrupted.

Pissing on Pontiac? Oh, you mean actually being realistic about this whole situation, which was being telegraphed months ago? I don't appreciate your personal attacks, and at this point I will agree with you that leaving the site--or at least taking a break from it--would do you quite a bit of good, as you don't seem to be that grounded right now. Take a break, get some rest, and maybe return when you've gone through the grief process more. Because right now you're still stuck somewhere between denial and anger.

[Camino LS6]

These are your own words, not mine. So, given what you've said, why does your opinion on ANYthing Gm does matter?

Why does yours?

And why, even come into this thread, which should be full of "what if" dreams for those that actually care about Pontiac - not cawing , naysaying vultures like yourself.

[Croc]

Why does yours?

And why, even come into this thread, which should be full of "what if" dreams for those that actually care about Pontiac - not cawing , naysaying vultures like yourself.

You're out of line. Nobody is served by taking a flight to FantasyLand.

[Camino LS6]

You're out of line. Nobody is served by taking a flight to FantasyLand.

So be it.

[wildcat]

Why does yours?

And why, even come into this thread, which should be full of "what if" dreams for those that actually care about Pontiac - not cawing , naysaying vultures like yourself.

You forget, I posted this story last night - does that sound like I don't care about Pontiac? - but I think I can participate in this thread; I never said my opinion was better than anyone's; I never said anything against Pontiac, only posted what others had reported in the news; I tried to make my posts grounded in fact based on print reports, not solely on opinion like you offered; I haven't swore off GM like you did; I haven't been "anti-" everything like you've been lately; and I haven't insulted you or called you names like you did to me.

And with that, I'd like to ask an administrator to step in and remind Camino LS6 to watch his manners.

[z28luvr01]

There is nothing wrong with Buick actually having performance. At this time, however, it doesn't make sense for Buick's mission to be performance. Rather, it should be on style, precision, luxury, refinement, etc. which is working well in China right now and should be successful in the US if GM stays the course. The "affordable performance" theme will have to go to Chevy - there's no other place for it.