What could Buick do

[ocnblu]

Nothing in my eyes, but I wanted to post this to see if you guys have ideas.

They'll need to expand the lineup. They'll need to produce some youthful models. T-Type trim level regurgitated?

Delta coupe with turbo 2.0L

Alpha coupe and convertible

Zeta LWB sedan

Epsilon II sedan, coupe and wagon

What should Buick do to try to keep a few Pontiac customers from leaving GM wholesale?

[Robert Hall]

Those would require money to develop...in the short term, they will probably just rebadge the G3, G5, G6 and Vibe as Buicks.

G3- Skyhawk, G5-Skylark (or use the Astra as the basis), and G6-Regal.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Cubical

[ocnblu]

Hey Cuticle, Fritz said all Pontiacs are dead and will not be shifted.

[Robert Hall]

Hey Cuticle, Fritz said all Pontiacs are dead and will not be shifted.

That's surprising...I would think they would want to keep them to keep the volume up at BG.

Without Pontiac, BG dealers will have only 2 cars, a couple truck lines, 3 CUVs and a couple SUVs.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Cubical

[Satty]

I dont think Buick needs a Delta. The G5 proved that GM doesn't really gain anything by augmenting the Cobalt, hell they couldn't even get self professed Pontiac fans to buy one over the 'Balt.

[ocnblu]

Instead of taking a veiled swipe at me, Satty, post your ideas on how Buick can keep a few Pontiac buyers from defecting.

[Intrepidation]

Why Buick? The only thing Buick would need to augment is the G8 with this:

Otherwise...

-------------------->

but with more actual Excitement

GTO and Firebird haven't been around for a several years, so Pontiac couldn't even sell you a RWD coupe, just a FWD 2 door. So...

----------------------->

--------------->

possibly with a Chevy badge.

[Camino LS6]

The short answer is absolutely nothing.

Any real damage control would have to take place at Chevrolet - with marginal effectiveness.

[Intrepidation]

The short answer is absolutely nothing.

Any real damage control would have to take place at Chevrolet - with marginal effectiveness.

Actually it means something for anyone who was actually planning to buy a Pontiac soon. Those are the buyers you want to know where will end up with, not buyers for cars 20 years from now that never existed.

[Camino LS6]

Actually it means something for anyone who was actually planning to buy a Pontiac soon. Those are the buyers you want to know where will end up with, not buyers for cars 20 years from now that never existed.

No offense DF, but I have no idea what that post means.

[Intrepidation]

You said the "short answer means nothing". I took it as you referring to "short term."

If that's not what you meant, then my bad.

[Camino LS6]

You said the "short answer means nothing". I took it as you referring to "short term."

If that's not what you meant, then my bad.

Oh, I see now.

No, that was not what I meant at all.

[Camino LS6]

I'll add this to my answer as well:

Buick shouldn't even attempt to pick-up Pontiac's business.

It would not only run counter to the brand identity GM has chosen for Buick, but it would also fail miserably. The end result would be even more damage to Buick as a brand.

[ocnblu]

Let me further pinpoint who I am talking about with this thread: people who have been loyal to a BPG DEALERSHIP for a number of years, who have, until the very near future, bought Pontiacs from that dealership. This is one example of the customer I am talking about.

[Camino LS6]

Let me further pinpoint who I am talking about with this thread: people who have been loyal to a BPG DEALERSHIP for a number of years, who have, until the very near future, bought Pontiacs from that dealership. This is one example of the customer I am talking about.

Satty will have fun with this one, but I think those buyers are all looking for a killer deal on their last new Pontiac right now.

And, they will only return to said dealerships for service.

If I had money to burn, I'd try to get my hands on a Solstice Targa - just because.

[ocnblu]

Local BPG dealership has an orgasmically beautiful metallic red Solstice GXP targa... but it has an automatic transmission...

[Camino LS6]

Local BPG dealership has an orgasmically beautiful metallic red Solstice GXP targa... but it has an automatic transmission...

Well, some things don't change.

Even with cash to burn, I'd leave that one on the lot.

No manual=no sale :AH-HA_wink:

[GMTruckGuy74]

I dont think Buick needs a Delta. The G5 proved that GM doesn't really gain anything by augmenting the Cobalt, hell they couldn't even get self professed Pontiac fans to buy one over the 'Balt.

Even though I have a family and could really benefit from the extra two doors of the Cobalt sedan, if I end up buying a Delta product this year it will be a Pontiac G5 GT Coupe.

Actually it means something for anyone who was actually planning to buy a Pontiac soon. Those are the buyers you want to know where will end up with, not buyers for cars 20 years from now that never existed.

Satty will have fun with this one, but I think those buyers are all looking for a killer deal on their last new Pontiac right now.

Very true... while the wife loves the new 2010 Buick LaCrosse, I forsee me ending up with a Pontiac if I am able to get a new car this year (employment/pending layoff is the holdup right now). If the Pontiacs I desire go away before I can get a brand-new one, then I will look to GMC first, then Buick, for a new vehicle... Chevy will still be low on the list (yes, I did say I want a new HHR, but the wife *loathes* them and I'd much rather have a G5 over the Cobalt).

[Intrepidation]

rather have a G5 over the Cobalt).

Serious question: why? Would you feel that way if Pontiac weren't being killed?

[GMTruckGuy74]

Why Buick? The only thing Buick would need to augment is the G8 with this:

There's just something about the frontend design of the Pontiac G8 that makes me like it the most out of all the VE variants (including Holden's designs). The Middle East Chevies look too Cobalt-ish with their grille design; I'm not a fan of the Holden bumber/foglight styling; and the Buick pictured above is too 'generic' looking. The G8's frontend design gets me everytime and is the area that draws my focus everytime I see one.

That being said, I'd love to see the NA Zeta live on and would prefer a Buick version - even if it means it would be out of my price range.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Serious question: why? Would you feel that way if Pontiac weren't being killed?

While I like the Cobalt and have had several students over the past couple of years buy a new one, I've preferred the look of the Pontiac twin-port grille ever since it's debut. Realistically, I know that there isn't much different between the Cobalt & G5, and the G5's radio readout/display wasn't even changed to red backlighting (it's still blue like the Cobalt). And I would have loved it if the G5 GT Sedan was available in the States; I don't think I'd be hesitating so much right now if I could have that choice. If Pontiac wasn't being killed off, I'd still be shopping the G5 GT Coupe over the Cobalt Sedan. I'd much rather have my money go to Pontiac and have a Pontiac in my driveway than a Chevy. Same holds true with the Torrent - if I was considering a CUV/SUV right now, I wouldn't even look at the Equinox at all.

[Intrepidation]

While I like the Cobalt and have had several students over the past couple of years buy a new one, I've preferred the look of the Pontiac twin-port grille ever since it's debut. Realistically, I know that there isn't much different between the Cobalt & G5, and the G5's radio readout/display wasn't even changed to red backlighting (it's still blue like the Cobalt). And I would have loved it if the G5 GT Sedan was available in the States; I don't think I'd be hesitating so much right now if I could have that choice. If Pontiac wasn't being killed off, I'd still be shopping the G5 GT Coupe over the Cobalt Sedan. I'd much rather have my money go to Pontiac and have a Pontiac in my driveway than a Chevy. Same holds true with the Torrent - if I was considering a CUV/SUV right now, I wouldn't even look at the Equinox at all.

Buy a Cobalt sedan

Buy G5 and Pontiac badges

Buy the sick-on grill insert.

Voila!

I just never got this mindset...it's the same bloody vehicle. At least the Torrent had it's own front end (though not much else). It's not like a Taurus and MKS where they look completely different inside and out, for example.

For me the only Pontiac that interested me are the Solstice and G8, because at least the Solstice doesn't look like the Sky and the G8 isn't rebadged in any other brand in NA.

The G6 gets credit for this too, but it's just a lackluster car compared to cars like the Malibu...and I find the coupe ungainly from most angles (except the one that ocn took the other day)

When I buy my first new car it will be because of what appeals to me most, not the badge on it...but not everyone is like that. Not to sound like a jerk, because obviously some members may take it that way and then tell me to go to another website...that's just my view. For me, the cars that make the brand, not the badge.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Oh trust me DF, the G8 GT Sedan is my most desirable car right now... it's just that to be able to afford my mortgage, other car payment, auto & house insurance, our debt-load, ect. other bills and costs of life, I should be shopping the $23k-$24k MSRP range of vehicles and with Pontiac that leaves me the G3 (no way!), the Vibe (I still can't bring myself to buy a Toyota product, even in Pontiac clothing), and the G5. And you figure with incentives and a minimal down payment I'm really looking to spend $20k-$21k on my new car. There's no way possible I'm going to get a new G8 in that price range... unless dealers are saddled with inventory come late summer/early fall and start giving them away a'la 2004 GTO in 'gotta go' fire sales. And we already have a G6 Sedan - I'd love to be able to get the G6 Convertible, but for it's money I can get a G8 GT instead; same for the Torrent, the ones I want sticker between $29-$31k and I'd rather have the G8 for that kind of money.

As for "brands" and "badges", yeah I drink from the GM Kool-Aid and have bought into "branding" a long time ago. When I was 9 y-o my parents bought a brand new '83 Grand Prix LJ. Mom's car took us everywhere and I learned to drive in it. My mom kept that car for slightly over 10 years and it & Pontiac made an impact on me; my uncle was a GM guy too and had many different GM cars <he leased>, but his last car was a new '87 Pontiac Bonneville SE and it kept him going until he passed in '93 (on the flipside, my aunt was an Olds woman and those too were well respected by me). Most of my neighbors had Pontiacs, Buicks, or Oldsmobiles (if they owned GM), and anyone with a Chevy usually had a economy model (mostly Celebritys, Coriscas and Berettas, with the occasional Camaro - one neighbor though had a new '91 Caprice LTZ loaded that was sharp). When I was a teenager I liked Chevies, but it was Pontiac that drew my attention more ('89-'92 model years) and was what I was inspired to own. In college I wanted many Pontiacs, especially a Grand Prix Coupe, Grand Am GT Coupe, and Trans Am. When I had the opportunity to get a car after graduating college, it was a 3 year old Trans Am T-top Coupe ('95 that I bought in '98). My first new Pontiac came almost a year later when I leased a '99 Grand Am GT1 Sedan; the wife leased a 2000 Grand Prix GT Sedan in 2000. While I was disappointed with the new-for-2004 GP styling, the G6 caught my eye and I wished I waited 6-8 months longer (I bought a '04 Malibu in November '03). I desparately wanted a '04-'05 Bonneville GXP and would have loved a GTO when they came back in 2004, but those cars were way out of my price range. And as far as classic GM cars go, it's the Pontiac division that I like the most over the course of all the years - I can't honedtly say that about Buick, Oldsmobile, and Chevy.

Does this mean that with the demise of Pontiac I won't buy GM in the future? No way!! I still have GMC - my #1 favorite GM brand - and Buick has caught both me & my wife's eyes over the years (she had an '03 Rendezvous that she loved and is head-over-heels for the new 2010 LaCrosse). Just like Olds though (which besides Caddy is the only other NA GM brand that I haven't owned), I'll be sad for years to come with Pontiacs absence. And if I am able to buy a new car this year (2009), I will do my best to make it a Pontiac - for the last time (new anyway).

[Intrepidation]

Maybe you'll get lucky and get a G8 on fire sale.

To go back to the original subject of this thread: I think Chevy has most of what Pontiac had (and then some) so I would imagine buyers will head their if they wants something representative of what Pontiac could have been, should have been (Camaro, Cobalt SS, etc.).

[Camino LS6]

It's an age thing guys, plain and simple.

[Robert Hall]

BG dealers are going to have a problem without Pontiac; how are they going to compete w/ Chevy dealers?

[SAmadei]

Maybe you'll get lucky and get a G8 on fire sale.

So far, I'm not seeing a G8 fire sale going on. The dealers are holding them pretty tightly.

[SAmadei]

BG dealers are going to have a problem without Pontiac; how are they going to compete w/ Chevy dealers?

They are not.

It's like the old Bond scene...

B-GMC: So you expect me to talk?

Chevrolet: (aiming laser), no Mr. B-GMC, I expect you to die.

[regfootball]

It's an age thing guys, plain and simple.

you are referring to the notion that the younger set does not want a buick.....

pontiac needed cars.

the g6 and solstice were the last specific pontiacs. g8 was done as a quick way to replace the pontiac flagship...it was not originally a pontiac.

Obviously the OM agenda and greenies with the axe are in control now so perhaps the notion of pontiac could have had an entire new lineup by now if GM had greenlighted the funds 3 years ago would have been intriguing. an all new alpha range of G6 products......g8 in many variants including wagon and truck, and maybe even a new compact pontiac with a turbo or something EXCITING!!!!!. we all should have known something was amiss when no replacement was planned for the g6 and grand prix. the solstice being introduced just kept everyone from noticing how pontiac was being starved.

well, now that we are in damage control......what would make sense and what OM/Tarp patrol wants Buick to do are two different things.

I would think however what is absolutely critical is to launch the LaCrosse with complete attention and keep the pricing attractive so it comes out of the gate ok. Secondly, I would get the REGAL here as fast as possible. In all forms including OPC. the regal is the model that can possibly grab younger buyers and it MUST make the transition from the insignia seamlessly. The Lucerne has to be kept and supported but there is limited options for what to do with it and how long. I would question if it didnt make sense to do a rename.....LESABRE......and plant the 3.6DI and 6 speed into it with a new interior. Then, lets have the holden chinese PARK AVENUE pronto. Redo the grille but otherwise bring us that goods. By 2012 then the Lesabre and park avenue would need to be consoldiated and replaced with one new large sedan. The chinese excelle / astra variant would if it comes here need to be the SKYLARK. I could honestly see a sedan and wagon being viable with a buick badge. (Pontiac should have gotten the astra). Its too bad the g6 hardtop convertible or some other vehicle could not have become the RIVIERA. Perhaps the Vue will become the RENDEVOUZ. Not a bad idea but inside and out the VUe needs a makeover to be a proper Buick and the dual mode hybrid would be essential as would a better 4 popper and add a 6 speed. I would curtail Enclave production to maintain its exclusivity. Can we get a dual mode Enclave?

my strategy is to promote and revive as many of the classic old buick marques are possible. make it a true revival. go down swinging.

Buick then may need to get involved in racing etc. if they want the younger set to have any interest in buick. and we may need to see things like T-types and Grand Nationals, i.e. dechromed Buicks. Imagine the horror at seeing your first Insignia with a Buick badge and a fake convertible top and pinstripes........

The Regal revival is THE critical Buick though. How much effort GM puts into / if they bring it here will clearly show if GM is not planning to axe Buick in another 3 years........

Edited April 30, 2009 by regfootball

[cire]

To go back to the original subject of this thread: I think Chevy has most of what Pontiac had (and then some) so I would imagine buyers will head there if they want something representative of what Pontiac could have been, should have been (Camaro, Cobalt SS, etc.).

I agree. Buick shouldn't try to become Pontiac or pick up its slack. Buick's lineup needs to be expanded downward (size-wise), but not with rebadged Chevrolets or even Pontiacs. Buick needs distinct smaller products that will reinforce Buick's position as a midmarket premium brand. Giving Buick rebadges of Chevrolet/Pontiac products will only turn the brand into another redundant affordable Chevrolet clone, which undermines the whole purpose for the Buick/GMC sales channel. With Pontiac's affordable alternative products gone (although I hate to see the entire brand discontinued), GM is free to properly position Buick/GMC where it needs to be in the market. GM just needs to be careful that any products placed in Buick's or GMC's lineups are distinct and appropriately premium when compared to their Chevrolet platform mates.

Chevrolet should pick up Pontiac's slack. I would do it with the following products:

* Impala: Rebadged Commodore. I would either completely discontinue the current W-body Impala or relegate it to fleet sales as the Chevrolet Classic at the end of the 2009 model year. I would then replace the Holden badge on the Berlina trim Commodore with an Impala badge (front and rear) and bring that car over as the new Impala low volume specialty sports sedan. The deletion of the W-body Impala from Chevrolet's retail lineup should eliminate any internal brand competition for the Malibu. The addition of a Zeta based Impala to Chevrolet's lineup would give the brand a true modern flagship sedan that doesn't overlap or compete with the Malibu. This car would essentially replace the discontinued G8 sedan.

* Monte Carlo: Develop an Accord/Altima midsize coupe competitor on the SWB Eps II platform. This car would have its own unique sporty styling that wouldn't be shared with any Chevy sedan (especially since there is currently no Chevy sedans on the SWB Eps II platform or any Eps II platform for that matter). This car would essentially replace the discontinued G6 coupe.

* Monza/Monza Nomad: This would be a sporty 3-door coupe (Monza) and 3-door wagon (Monza Nomad) based on the Delta II platform used by the Cruze sedan. The Monza and Monza Nomad would share absolutely no sheetmetal with their Cruze platform mate; the design of these 2 products would be totally unique and distinctive. The coupe and wagon would share front end designs as well as doors; everything from the B-pillar back would be different though. The coupe would replace the discontinued G5 (and Cobalt) coupe and the wagon would sort of be a sportier (and cooler) replacement for the Vibe (and HHR).

* Kappa product: Unfortunately, Kappa has not been profitable and it will probably be discontinued. Since that is the likely scenario, there is no reason to bother speculating about a Chevrolet version.

* G6 convertible: GM is not in any financial condition to continue or replace this type of vehicle.

* G6 sedan: Malibu.

* G3: Aveo5.

* Torrent: Equinox and (to a lesser extent) Terrain.

* G8 ST (stillborn): Slap a Chevy badge on the Ute and bring it over as a low volume El Camino sports truck.

Done! Pontiac's lineup is essentially replaced (what little of it that could or really needed to be replaced).

As far as Buick:

* Velite: Rebadged next gen Corsa 3-door/5-door.

* Centieme: Rebadged next gen Astra sedan/5-door.

* Vivace: Rebadged next gen Astra (or possibly Calibra?) coupe.

* Regal: Rebadged current Insignia sedan.

* Riviera: Midsize coupe built on LWB Eps II.

* Invicta: 2010 LaCrosse rechristened for the North American market.

* LeSabre: Rebadged Holden Statesman/Caprice sedan (low volume flagship sedan).

* Rendezvous: Rebadged next gen Meriva MPV.

* Bravura: Rebadged next gen Zafira MPV.

* Enclave: Next gen morphs into midsize MPV built on LWB Eps II to differentiate it from the Acadia.

* Electra: Some sort of Voltec derivative; maybe a 5-door wagon or MPV type vehicle based on the Flextreme Concept.

As far as GMC:

* Brigade: Rebadged Vue/Antara CUV with 2.4L DI 4-cylinder as sole engine choice (except for a 2-mode hybrid version).

* Terrain: Midsize CUV.

* Acadia: Large CUV.

* Denali: Fullsize SUT. Essentially this would be the next gen Avalanche. It would be reassigned to GMC and would become a GMC exclusive (no Chevrolet or Cadillac versions).

[ocnblu]

What it is, is... buying a vehicle with the Pontiac name projects an image for the buyer. It instills within the buyer a mindset, a feeling, an attitude. Even the entry-level G5 buyer chooses a Pontiac because of their attitude on life and an image they want to exude. Nevermind the scant physical difference between a Cobalt and a G5 when looked at on paper. We're not talking about paper, we're talking about emotions, attitude on life, and image projection. All important considerations for car buyers. This is what has kept the fires going in a Pontiac enthusiast, the history that leads up to the now, what Pontiac has been is still in the arrowhead badge in 2009. No Chevrolet and no Buick can give all that to a Pontiac person.

[Intrepidation]

What it is, is... buying a vehicle with the Pontiac name projects an image for the buyer. It instills within the buyer a mindset, a feeling, an attitude. Even the entry-level G5 buyer chooses a Pontiac because of their attitude on life and an image they want to exude. Nevermind the scant physical difference between a Cobalt and a G5 when looked at on paper. We're not talking about paper, we're talking about emotions, attitude on life, and image projection. All important considerations for car buyers. This is what has kept the fires going in a Pontiac enthusiast, the history that leads up to the now, what Pontiac has been is still in the arrowhead badge in 2009. No Chevrolet and no Buick can give all that to a Pontiac person.

IMHO Pontiac hasn't been able to give off anything resembling that image in decades with only occasional exceptions. No one's going to fool me that a G3 somehow has more attitude and EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!! than an Aveo.

Perhaps one has to be old enough to live during Pontiac's glory days to think this...but most of gen Y doesn't see it that way...and those how do see it in the products that actually convey that image (Solstice, G8, GTO)

So slap a Chevy badge on the G8 and I'll buy one...I care about the car and what the car can do and represents on its own merits, not the badge.

[Robert Hall]

We're talking about emotions, attitude on life, and image projection. All important considerations for car buyers.

That sounds like marketing speak. Nothing substantive. Pontiac's glory days have been gone for a long time, sadly, with just a few sparks of the old image here and there like the GTO, G8, and Solstice.

[CaddyXLR-V]

IMHO Pontiac hasn't been able to give off anything resembling that image in decades with only occasional exceptions. No one's going to fool me that a G3 somehow has more attitude and EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!! than an Aveo.

Perhaps one has to be old enough to live during Pontiac's glory days to think this...but most of gen Y doesn't see it that way...and those how do see it in the products that actually convey that image (Solstice, G8, GTO)

So slap a Chevy badge on the G8 and I'll buy one...I care about the car and what the car can do and represents on its own merits, not the badge.

It won't happen like that. The Chevy will be dumbed down, to fit a wider range of buyers, including the 65+ crowd. Thats the problem with having brands that don't have a specific focus. Yes, it will get you more sales, just look at Toyota. But it doesn't mean the cars will be better.

[regfootball]

GM basically will have nothing to offer younger buyers or performance minded drivers. Unless you can foot the bill for an expensive CTS and even then you might still want the 3 series.

GM s really screwing the pooch here. Honestly if there was no new camaro they had to make do with, GM would have nothing to hang its hat on for anyone who wants fun and a reasonable price tag.

[regfootball]

it also wasnt long ago grand prix sold 200k and grand am like 300k and pontiac as a brand was close to a mill........

[Camino LS6]

Reg, my age comment was in reference to the perception of Pontiac as a brand.

DF: Only sees the rebadges and thinks of the good stuff as a minor aspect of the brand.

GMTG: Accepted the mid-range FWDs as part of Pontiac's heritage and still sees brand value in them

ME: I only see the good stuff and dismiss the rest as mistakes completely irrelevant to the brand's identity.

That's why we see it differently.

Thus my age comment.

[Lamar]

What could Buick do to pick up Pontiac's slack?

Nothing, really. Currently Buick and Pontiac are/have been almost polar opposites of one another. Cushy cruising and ultraconservative styling across the lot from edgy attitude and driving EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's hard to try to cover that base without alienating another. Even with the possibility of a NG LaCrosse Super (probably not, but hey...) I think Chevy has the best chance to recoup Pontiac customers. Will they? I doubt it.

And re: a Buick Zeta sedan? Personally, the only place I want to see a LWB Zeta luxury sedan right now is Cadillac. No sense having the 2nd-tier luxury brand outdoing the proverbial king of the hill.

[G. David Felt]

Personally, BG does not need an econo box or any other low end vehicle. The focus being on mid luxury, they can and very well could keep a number of Pontiac buyer by moving the G8 over to GMC as a performance mid luxury sedan under the Denali banner. Maybe also the G6 so they have a lower Coupe GT performance model but otherwise I would focus on bringing better, new mid lux performance models under the GMC logo with the Denali line.

[Intrepidation]

Reg, my age comment was in reference to the perception of Pontiac as a brand.

DF: Only sees the rebadges and thinks of the good stuff as a minor aspect of the brand.

GMTG: Accepted the mid-range FWDs as part of Pontiac's heritage and still sees brand value in them

ME: I only see the good stuff and dismiss the rest as mistakes completely irrelevant to the brand's identity.

That's why we see it differently.

Thus my age comment.

Well when the bad outweighs the good and has for decades...yeah I'm going to look at it as "the glass is half empty".

I see what you're saying though.

[Lamar]

I hear you, dfelt, but many would believe (me included) that GMC selling cars would become the beginning of the end for them.

The Acadia and Terrain are as close as they should ever get.

[Intrepidation]

Personally, BG does not need an econo box or any other low end vehicle. The focus being on mid luxury, they can and very well could keep a number of Pontiac buyer by moving the G8 over to GMC as a performance mid luxury sedan under the Denali banner. Maybe also the G6 so they have a lower Coupe GT performance model but otherwise I would focus on bringing better, new mid lux performance models under the GMC logo with the Denali line.

Might as well kill GMC now if that sort of thing were to ever happen.

[G. David Felt]

I hear you, dfelt, but many would believe (me included) that GMC selling cars would become the beginning of the end for them.

The Acadia and Terrain are as close as they should ever get.

Might as well kill GMC now if that sort of thing were to ever happen.

OK, Lets hear some valid reasons as to why they should NOT sell auto's? Yes they have not had them before that I can remember and they did have the performance Syclone and Typhone. So why not have a performance auto? Would it be better that Buick have a mid luxury Perfomance line? I could live with that.

[Intrepidation]

OK, Lets hear some valid reasons as to why they should NOT sell auto's? Yes they have not had them before that I can remember and they did have the performance Syclone and Typhone. So why not have a performance auto? Would it be better that Buick have a mid luxury Perfomance line? I could live with that.

Because, GMC is supposed to, and has been almost exclusively about trucks and SUVs. Selling cars dilutes the brand image...dilute it enough and for long enough and you end up where Pontiac is now.

An El Camino type vehicle is as far as I would go, not sedans, agons, coupes, and such.

[Lamar]

Because, GMC is supposed to, and has been almost exclusively about trucks and SUVs. Selling cars dilutes the brand image...dilute it enough and for long enough and you end up where Pontiac is now.

An El Camino type vehicle is as far as I would go, not sedans, agons, coupes, and such.

Basically. Trucks (and such) are GMC's trademark, like sport-oriented cars should have been Pontiac's trademark all along.

Following those same lines, if GMC were axed, one wouldn't expect Buick to start selling pickups.

[Camino LS6]

I wouldn't even go with the El Camino template for GMC at this point in time.

Not until they can do something like the Denali XT, and do it well.

[G. David Felt]

Because, GMC is supposed to, and has been almost exclusively about trucks and SUVs. Selling cars dilutes the brand image...dilute it enough and for long enough and you end up where Pontiac is now.

An El Camino type vehicle is as far as I would go, not sedans, agons, coupes, and such.

I coudl buy that reasoning, what about Buick picking up the performance side so they have a mid lux auto side and a mid lux performance car side. What about thoughts on that?

[Paolino]

I coudl buy that reasoning, what about Buick picking up the performance side so they have a mid lux auto side and a mid lux performance car side. What about thoughts on that?

Isn't the performance side the whole point of the Super series?

[Lamar]

I coudl buy that reasoning, what about Buick picking up the performance side so they have a mid lux auto side and a mid lux performance car side. What about thoughts on that?

I see where your thinking is going... but it still doesn't quite cover Pontiac's spot, which is way more performance than luxury. Pontiac buyers put much more value on the former.

That's not to say that they couldn't do it... but until Buick is fixed and rolling, it's not the best idea.

[SAmadei]

Well when the bad outweighs the good and has for decades...yeah I'm going to look at it as "the glass is half empty".

I see what you're saying though.

I find the Chrysler/Dodge/Buick meets the criteria of "bad outweighs the good and has for decades" far more than Pontiac has. But everyone has their rose colored glasses...