Is the Corvette to go the way of the Ponchos?

[RBB]

Can't spell analyst w/o anal.

-RBB

[Intrepidation]

[CaddyXLR-V]

Well, both are probably too heavy. The Kappa platform needs more development to be world class, no doubt. I'm thinking about a 2800lb sports car. Such a car doesn't need 400 or 600hp to be entertaining.

To keep the same power to weight ratio of the current Corvette, a 2800lb Corvette would need 393hp. 3100lbs is already lighter than almost all of its competitors.

[Robert Hall]

To keep the same power to weight ratio of the current Corvette, a 2800lb Corvette would need 393hp. 3100lbs is already lighter than almost all of its competitors.

3100 seems pretty light..I thought the Corvette was more like 3500lbs.

[CaddyXLR-V]

3100 seems pretty light..I thought the Corvette was more like 3500lbs.

Z51 is 3350lbs. Base Corvettes are around 3150lbs

[Northstar]

3100 seems pretty light..I thought the Corvette was more like 3500lbs.

The Z06 weights 3180, regular one weighs 3215, and ZR1 weighs 3325.

[turbo200]

the V8 remains the cheapest and most efficient choice when building corvette. my assumption is lack of development funds and less sales could kill vette, but the performance of vette is so eternally competitive that i doubt sales will take such a hit as time goes on. this car can last until 2015 and still see 15k annual sales at least.

overreaction and political bias have become a trend here. it degrades those to silly standards, especially those obama attackers who curiously ignore the fact that GM had to come to the gov't for help, and bush left the decisions for obama to deal with. bush left obama the responsibility of how to best utilize the money off mines and your backs. pretty heady responsibility. yet all i hear are whining republicans and conspiracy theorists, instead of those who follow the decisions and the subsequent stabilization.

if it were up to GM and chrysler, the excess capacity, excess dealers, excess legacy costs, uncompetitive product lineup [in chrysler's case] would all sort itself out magically from the wand of Harry Potter. people please get a grip and spare us the inconsquential and premeditative talk.

[CaddyXLR-V]

the V8 remains the cheapest and most efficient choice when building corvette. my assumption is lack of development funds and less sales could kill vette, but the performance of vette is so eternally competitive that i doubt sales will take such a hit as time goes on. this car can last until 2015 and still see 15k annual sales at least.

overreaction and political bias have become a trend here. it degrades those to silly standards, especially those obama attackers who curiously ignore the fact that GM had to come to the gov't for help, and bush left the decisions for obama to deal with. bush left obama the responsibility of how to best utilize the money off mines and your backs. pretty heady responsibility. yet all i hear are whining republicans and conspiracy theorists, instead of those who follow the decisions and the subsequent stabilization.

if it were up to GM and chrysler, the excess capacity, excess dealers, excess legacy costs, uncompetitive product lineup [in chrysler's case] would all sort itself out magically from the wand of Harry Potter. people please get a grip and spare us the inconsquential and premeditative talk.

Political bias? It's one of Obama's stated goals to become more green. You're saying he won't be tempted at all to kill off some lower mpg cars, and force through some greener cars once the govt has 50% or more ownership of the company? I highly doubt that.

[regfootball]

3100 seems pretty light..I thought the Corvette was more like 3500lbs.

like most people, they have the wrong perception of GM.

(on this particular item only in your case)

the vette is one of the lightest cars out there. its physical footprint belies the genius engineering to keep the car super light like it is, its also why the vette will get 30mpg on a road trip if you dont slam the throttle.

IIRC the nissan 350z is even heavier than the vette. the vette is almost as light as the vw golf / jetta is heavy.

[turbo200]

Political bias? It's one of Obama's stated goals to become more green. You're saying he won't be tempted at all to kill off some lower mpg cars, and force through some greener cars once the govt has 50% or more ownership of the company? I highly doubt that.

there's no doubt he should and will exert some influence. where the hell is GM's mainstream hybrid competitor? that was his exact question in plain and less colorful language yesterday during his press conference. where are all the mainstream compacts and subcompacts? i know, i know, GM has them coming, just like yesterday, ten years ago, competitive cars are right around the corner. this time thanks to opel and GM engineering we know they're right around the corner. but as an intelligent and curious fellow he has the right to demand GM bring those products to market sooner, after all they are a huge chunk of the new market, and not trucks, which GM is heavily invested in even going forward [crossovers]. it's natural that GM is going to get greener, that was already in the books. they themselves announced a couple years ago they would be seeking fuel efficiency leadership in every segment they compete in.

what i know he won't do is jeopardize the company's future. he will enact and ask them to enact a plan that will allow them to make themselves profitable and pay back the taxpayer's money. he has been entirely candid on this point, and like everything he is candid and detailed on, i believe he is invested in seeing that happen. i think the only thing that will kill trucks, muscle cars, and vettes will be lack of sales and GM's own board deciding they are no longer profitable nature, but that will be the only reason going forward, GM is being set up to be a fully viable and profitable company, something that would have never been able to happen if they hadn't been forced into this situation in the first place. GM would have continued to go about it with all thier excess baggage as long as they could have.

in the case those cars we love die, if you allow me to philosophize, they hold no pertinence to any one person's condition of life here. we will move on, to other brands, or classics, if necessary, to get our fix of fun to drive cars. that is if life allows us to do so, as well.

[CaddyXLR-V]

there's no doubt he should and will exert some influence. where the hell is GM's mainstream hybrid competitor? that was his exact question in plain and less colorful language yesterday during his press conference. where are all the mainstream compacts and subcompacts?

Until GM files for bankruptcy, those cars you mentioned will not contribute to the bottom line. In fact, they probably take away from the bottom line due to GM's cost structure. Once GM fixes it's costs through bankruptcy, if they can make those cars and profit from them, they will. The government needs to keep out of the product decision process.

[A Horse With No Name]

I'm all for giving the automakers help but it almost should be in the form of a hands off one time grant, IMHO.

Chris

[cletus8269]

in the case those cars we love die, if you allow me to philosophize, they hold no pertinence to any one person's condition of life here. we will move on, to other brands, or classics, if necessary, to get our fix of fun to drive cars. that is if life allows us to do so, as well.

or just move on to another hobby and let the fire of automotive passion simply turn to embers. there are only so many cars of yesterday. once they are spoken for they are gone. and with the cash for clunkers they may disappear quicker. if no exciting fun to drive cars are built by your fav brand, then 20 yrs down the road there wont be a kid stumbling through a salvage yard looking for his next cool ride.

[turbo200]

or just move on to another hobby and let the fire of automotive passion simply turn to embers. there are only so many cars of yesterday. once they are spoken for they are gone. and with the cash for clunkers they may disappear quicker. if no exciting fun to drive cars are built by your fav brand, then 20 yrs down the road there wont be a kid stumbling through a salvage yard looking for his next cool ride.

or learn to love european cars. there are some pretty exciting cars out there.

[Intrepidation]

or learn to love european cars. there are some pretty exciting cars out there.

I agreed with what you were saying until this point. No one should "learn to love" another type of car. They should be able to get what they want.

[Camino LS6]

I agreed with what you were saying until this point. No one should "learn to love" another type of car. They should be able to get what they want.

Amen!

But as my experience shows, that is a frustrating thing to find these days.

[A Horse With No Name]

or just move on to another hobby and let the fire of automotive passion simply turn to embers. there are only so many cars of yesterday. once they are spoken for they are gone. and with the cash for clunkers they may disappear quicker. if no exciting fun to drive cars are built by your fav brand, then 20 yrs down the road there wont be a kid stumbling through a salvage yard looking for his next cool ride.

Sadly, I already really feel this way, sort of.

Chris

[turbo200]

I agreed with what you were saying until this point. No one should "learn to love" another type of car. They should be able to get what they want.

i'm saying this because first and foremost i beleive the admininstration is interested in these companies really producing designs at the forefront of their industry. i believe they've studied the market, they've studied what the leading auto companies, the ones making real profit, what thier designs are like. you know product like the venza, insight, fiesta, the ones that gain notoriety and sales quickly.....innovative product.

so i believe in the end, this is what the administration wants, that the companies continue and increasingly produce designs people want to own. they understand the competition is fierce and excessive, they understand everyone is making good cars now, they understand the way forward is for a focused design adn development team to triumph. i think this means as long as the public continues to buy the kinds of cars you want, cletus wants, camino, et al....then they will continue to be made.

secondly, i say what i say because there are really great cars and designs out there. and if we'd all open our minds a little, we'd realize this is not the end of the world, and if we are real enthusiasts we will make it work.

[A Horse With No Name]

I agreed with what you were saying until this point. No one should "learn to love" another type of car. They should be able to get what they want.

I agree we should be able to get what we want.

However, the automotive world is changing so fast that I doubt any of us will get what we really want.

I want a Sosltice Targa...however...when I get in position to buy my next car, Pontiac will be gone and I'll have a GTI in the garage instead.

Chris

[Camino LS6]

i'm saying this because first and foremost i beleive the admininstration is interested in these companies really producing designs at the forefront of their industry. i believe they've studied the market, they've studied what the leading auto companies, the ones making real profit, what thier designs are like. you know product like the venza, insight, fiesta, the ones that gain notoriety and sales quickly.....innovative product.

so i believe in the end, this is what the administration wants, that the companies continue and increasingly produce designs people want to own. they understand the competition is fierce and excessive, they understand everyone is making good cars now, they understand the way forward is for a focused design adn development team to triumph. i think this means as long as the public continues to buy the kinds of cars you want, cletus wants, camino, et al....then they will continue to be made.

secondly, i say what i say because there are really great cars and designs out there. and if we'd all open our minds a little, we'd realize this is not the end of the world, and if we are real enthusiasts we will make it work.

1. You have way more faith in those folks than I do, I really question how a short study of the industry could possibly have them up to speed.

2.No compromise, No surrender

[turbo200]

1. You have way more faith in those folks than I do, I really question how a short study of the industry could possibly have them up to speed.

2.No compromise, No surrender

you're being too uncompromising. somewhere you just have to let go.

[Camino LS6]

Actually, I don't.

And I treasure having the freedom not to.

[Robert Hall]

"You can't always get what you want, sometimes you get what you need"

[Camino LS6]

"You can't always get what you want, sometimes you get what you need"

Perhaps.

But I don't "get what I need" new unless it is also what I want.

And I don't get inspiration from the 'Stones.

[hyperv6]

the V8 remains the cheapest and most efficient choice when building corvette. my assumption is lack of development funds and less sales could kill vette, but the performance of vette is so eternally competitive that i doubt sales will take such a hit as time goes on. this car can last until 2015 and still see 15k annual sales at least.

overreaction and political bias have become a trend here. it degrades those to silly standards, especially those obama attackers who curiously ignore the fact that GM had to come to the gov't for help, and bush left the decisions for obama to deal with. bush left obama the responsibility of how to best utilize the money off mines and your backs. pretty heady responsibility. yet all i hear are whining republicans and conspiracy theorists, instead of those who follow the decisions and the subsequent stabilization.

if it were up to GM and chrysler, the excess capacity, excess dealers, excess legacy costs, uncompetitive product lineup [in chrysler's case] would all sort itself out magically from the wand of Harry Potter. people please get a grip and spare us the inconsquential and premeditative talk.

It is not political bias it is the plain fact that the goverment has higher fuel standards now and some in that goverment are pushing for even higher. Also the emission rules are pressing higher too and will change for even stricter rules.

The Dems are the ones who recieve most of the lobby money and support formt he eviro green groups so they have to support their views. Even more Repubs are now involved in the green embrace now.

It is getting harder and harder to meet the CAFE strandard with the cars now and it is only going to get worse. Smaller lighter and more efficent cars are what companies are going to be foreced too.

As for the restrictive eviro laws being pressed on the after market start reading the SEMA web site and the pending law they have and are fighting. More and more some of these are now being passed. Once they are in they will be near impossible to remove.

The fact is while it would not be as bad d if Mc cain had won it still would not have been good as Washington in gerneral is pushing this more and more regarless what side you sit.

Unless GM can sell a lot of alturnitve energy cars things will be a little tight for large heavy and powerful cars.

Too many in this country do not realize all that is really going on now let alone what could happen if left unchallanged.

You need to face the fact that the politicians you and I support do not support everything we like or want. I have yet to find a politician I support in all things. We as auto enthusiast need to let ourselves be heard as if we remain silent we will have no one to blaime but ourselves if we lose the products we love.

To some they call it an over reaction, I would rather over react than lose any of my rights to buy the vehicle I want.

[Camino LS6]

Hyper, for once we completely agree.

[FloydHendershot]

3100 seems pretty light..I thought the Corvette was more like 3500lbs.

It depends but it usually is.

[balthazar]

>>"Never say never...these are interesting times...who knows what will happen to the Vette."<<

The Corvette will go sub-V-8 when ferrari starts offering a turbo fiat 500 engine in it's tubby cars.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Just think about when Chrysler and GM are govt owned. Do you think there will be anyone from those companies lobbying to fight the restrictions the govt wants to place on autos? The govt will almost have free passes to pass whatever laws they want, and GM and Chrysler will have no choice but to support them.

The govt basically is going to be controlling their resistance.

[FloydHendershot]

It is not political bias it is the plain fact that the goverment has higher fuel standards now and some in that goverment are pushing for even higher. Also the emission rules are pressing higher too and will change for even stricter rules.

The Dems are the ones who recieve most of the lobby money and support formt he eviro green groups so they have to support their views. Even more Repubs are now involved in the green embrace now.

It is getting harder and harder to meet the CAFE strandard with the cars now and it is only going to get worse. Smaller lighter and more efficent cars are what companies are going to be foreced too.

As for the restrictive eviro laws being pressed on the after market start reading the SEMA web site and the pending law they have and are fighting. More and more some of these are now being passed. Once they are in they will be near impossible to remove.

The fact is while it would not be as bad d if Mc cain had won it still would not have been good as Washington in gerneral is pushing this more and more regarless what side you sit.

Unless GM can sell a lot of alturnitve energy cars things will be a little tight for large heavy and powerful cars.

Too many in this country do not realize all that is really going on now let alone what could happen if left unchallanged.

You need to face the fact that the politicians you and I support do not support everything we like or want. I have yet to find a politician I support in all things. We as auto enthusiast need to let ourselves be heard as if we remain silent we will have no one to blaime but ourselves if we lose the products we love.

To some they call it an over reaction, I would rather over react than lose any of my rights to buy the vehicle I want.

If this, any of this remotely pans out than I say good you should be doing everything you can to reduce dependence on oil.

Chalk it up to leading by example.

But to assuage any ill informed fears this is not the case. This is procedure and a bi-product of democrat government. It doesn't mean much other than bigger government with more payroll.

If what you are saying had a modicum of truth Chrysler would start building bicycles tomorrow.

That is not the goal so don't jump off the deep end just yet. Unless that is you don't mind getting all wet.

Edited April 30, 2009 by FloydHendershot

[gm4life]

It will be a V8 forever, the car is already a showcase for fuel economy.

If they can't build it as a V8, they will kill it

They will have no choice.

Anything less would make them the laughingstock of the industry.

As long as GM builds trucks there will be V8s, and as long as there are V8s, one will live between the Vette's fenders.

The only thing that will kill the Corvette would be a lack of sales, even the overgreeen idiots don't have the nuts to take the V8 from Corvette.

Thank you someone who actually gets it. The day they can't give a Corvette a V8 is the day the car should die.

[Z-06]

Why does Corvette need a V6 when it already offers the fuel economy of a V6 or in some cases of an I4?

Seriously it is a political and greenie perception that Corvettes are gas guzzlers, yet these cars with a V8 return same gas mileage as their 4-cylinder Camries.

As someone who owned a C5 Z06 for six months I have milked out 26 mpg in the city by careful driving and currently the BMW barely beats that number despite of it having lesser cylinders.

I can relate an incident.

While returning to FL after flogging the Vette in the Carolinas, I had stopped in Georgia for filling gas, a blue girl (Kerry 2004 on her bumper) was filling gas in a Sequoia besides me. She gives me this evil look and asks, "How much fuel does the gas guzzler burn?" I said I just got about 30 mpg in a tank. She looked like a cadaver after hearing that number.

It seems like the politicians have lost or completely forgotten what America means and what it stands for. I hope these dimwit people realize the values of this country before it is too late.

[ocnblu]

Excellent post, smallchevy.

[SAmadei]

Why does Corvette need a V6 when it already offers the fuel economy of a V6 or in some cases of an I4?

I agree with this totally... but unfortunately, its a case of perception. Cars are in our fact, and Vettes and SUVs more so, so they must be the Earth killers, right? No, usually the coal power electric plants that are getting pollution credits to subsidize their destruction of the planet.

Someone needs to show all the green freaks the Top Gear Prius vs. BMW 3 series MPG comparison video (I think it was a Prius). Basically, they drove the BMW and Prius like they normally drive... i.e. like its a getaway car. The Pruis fell flat on its face and the BMW got better mileage.

[Satty]

A V6 could be sold chaper, expanding the Corvette name. Or the V6 could be the "base" model while the V8 moved to a higher price (and higher profit) point.

[K.C.]

No Corvette? I can't imagine a GM without it.

[hyperv6]

>>"Never say never...these are interesting times...who knows what will happen to the Vette."<<

The Corvette will go sub-V-8 when ferrari starts offering a turbo fiat 500 engine in it's tubby cars.

I remember there was a time they said there would never again be a Ferrari without a gated shifter on the floor after the 400 mess of the 70's

Well has anyone looked in a new Ferrari lately? Never say never.

Either way I see the C6 being around till at least 2016 and a lot can happen by then. I would keep an Eye on the Pratt & Miller team as long as they race the Vette is save.

Jake will not go quietly!

Also these regs will not just effect our sports cars but everyones. So V8's V10 and V12s may all be a dying breed accept for only the very expensive cars where the buyers don't care about price or CAFE gas guzzler taxes.

I expect we will always have performance in one form or another. It will never die we will just be forced to do it in different ways.

Edited May 1, 2009 by hyperv6

[Intrepidation]

Why does Corvette need a V6 when it already offers the fuel economy of a V6 or in some cases of an I4?

Seriously it is a political and greenie perception that Corvettes are gas guzzlers, yet these cars with a V8 return same gas mileage as their 4-cylinder Camries.

As someone who owned a C5 Z06 for six months I have milked out 26 mpg in the city by careful driving and currently the BMW barely beats that number despite of it having lesser cylinders.

I can relate an incident.

While returning to FL after flogging the Vette in the Carolinas, I had stopped in Georgia for filling gas, a blue girl (Kerry 2004 on her bumper) was filling gas in a Sequoia besides me. She gives me this evil look and asks, "How much fuel does the gas guzzler burn?" I said I just got about 30 mpg in a tank. She looked like a cadaver after hearing that number.

It seems like the politicians have lost or completely forgotten what America means and what it stands for. I hope these dimwit people realize the values of this country before it is too late.

I nominate this for post of the year.

[Camino LS6]

I second the nomination!

[wildcat]

I just noticed on GM's media website, Corvette is listed separately and with its own logo script, as if GM considers it a brand with equal standing to Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, et al. Has it been that way for a while? See here.

[Z-06]

I just noticed on GM's media website, Corvette is listed separately and with its own logo script, as if GM considers it a brand with equal standing to Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, et al. Has it been that way for a while? See here.

Yes Sir. I think since 2007 or late 2006, when Corvette went on a Europe onslaught.

[wildcat]

Thank you!