Is the Corvette to go the way of the Ponchos?

[cletus8269]

http://autos.aol.com/article/car-news/corv...ise/20090429001

Pontiac Is Dead; Is The Corvette Next?

What Detroit Will Build (and Won't) In Its Next Chapter

by Rex Roy | AOL Autos

In remarks made in March about the auto industry, President Obama said, "We cannot, we must not, and we will not let our auto industry simply vanish." This is positive news for many, but it may actually signal the end of the consumer-driven American automotive industry.

Depending on how active the Obama administration chooses to be regarding the operation of General Motors and Chrysler (the government already forced out GM CEO Rick Wagoner), bureaucrats may restrict the types of cars these two manufacturers sell in the post bail out future. Government leaders such as Nancy Pelosi have already voiced the opinion that Americans should drive smaller, more efficient vehicles. Conditions on the bail out funds may be the vehicle used to force GM and Chrysler to build only what Washington wants them to build. Additionally, changing emissions regulations will force Ford Motor Company and other producers to follow suit.

More information will surface, so it is too soon to accurately predict what GM and Chrysler may look like when they emerge from the Obama team's restructuring program. However, one can assess and offer educated conjecture about how President Obama's actions may affect the cars arriving in showrooms of the future.

Cleaner Cars

Bureaucrats want Detroit to build cleaner cars. Because facts don't generally make good sound bites, politicians and regulators do not highlight the fact that every new car and light truck in sold in the U.S. run nearly emissions free once the engines have warmed to operating temperature. Current regulations already mandate exhaust emissions so clean that in U.S. cities experiencing heavy pollution days (think L.A. in August), the gases leaving a new passenger vehicle's tailpipe are cleaner than the air entering the engine.

So what do politicians really mean when they talk about "cleaner cars?" It's all about carbon dioxide emissions. Environmentalists have convinced enough members of enough different government bodies that C02 emissions must come down to combat alleged global climate change. President Obama believes that man-made C02 is dangerous.

Avoiding ongoing arguments regarding man-made C02 emissions and its impact on climate change (whether it is major or non-existent), because of a Supreme Court ruling during the Bush administration, C02 can be regulated by the Environmental Protection Agency. New regulations are expected to begin impacting vehicles as soon as the 2011 model year.

With current technology, the only way to lower C02 emissions is for vehicles to consume less carbon-based fuel; gasoline, diesel fuel, natural gas, liquid propane, and coal-generated electricity.

More Fuel-Efficient Cars

Currently, government mileage targets are 35 mpg by 2020. The Obama administration may change this goal and increase the mpg even further. In general, meeting the "35" rule mandates small, lightweight vehicles with small, highly-efficient engines.

Expect more use of high-strength, light-weight steels such as boron. Ford already uses boron in its 2009 F-Series pickup to save weight while maintaining crash protection capabilities. More exotic and expensive materials such as carbon fiber will expand from use on exotic sports cars to more mainstream applications.

Regarding engines, manufacturers will attain more efficiency from smaller internal combustion engines. Technologies that contribute to added mileage include direct injection, variable valve timing, and auto-stop engines. High-performance models will utilize forced-induction such as turbocharging or supercharging. Diesel engines could also see expanded use (now that clean-burning diesels are available), but further tightening of C02 emissions could rule out this choice altogether.

The availability of hybrid powertrains will also expand considerably to include more vehicles and classes of vehicle. Some manufacturers have already announced long-range plans that show hybrid editions of every model offered. Types of hybrids will also expand beyond the current mild-hybrid (characterized by the Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid), single-mode hybrids (Toyota Prius and Ford Fusion Hybrid), and dual-mode hybrids (GM full-size trucks and SUVs). These hybrid types are parallel hybrid designs where both the gasoline engine and electric motors directly power the wheels. The upcoming Chevrolet Volt is a series hybrid; the Volt's electric motor provides acceleration while its on-board gasoline engine is used only to charge the batteries. Plus-in charging for hybrids is also just over the horizon.

The common trait with these new C02-reducing techniques is higher cost. Tomorrow's more efficient cars and trucks will be more expensive.

Disappearing Cars

In a move largely seen as giving in to Washington, General Motors recently closed it High Performance Vehicles division. The HPV team was largely responsible for GM's most exciting cars including the Cadillac CTS-V and the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1.

Bureaucrats have little use for performance-oriented V-8 powered cars, so don't expect cars like the Chevy Corvette, Dodge Viper, Chevrolet Camaro SS, or Dodge Challenger R/T to survive long term. Their survival is no longer tied to customer demand, but to the demands of the government that now controls the product portfolios and development dollars at GM and Chrysler. Recently, GM announced it was killing its Pontiac brand, a concept that seemed to define performance all by itself some decades ago. Now that brand is gone.

Ford Motor Company will also likely be affected. New emissions regulations may keep future V-8 editions of the Mustang in the barn.

According to John Wolkonowicz, Senior Analyst at HIS Global Insight, "With Obama's plan, everything changes in the domestic automotive world. The government will be able to dictate what General Motors and Chrysler can sell. Washington believes it knows what Americans should drive, and this bail out gives them the means to dramatically change the market." Wolkonowicz sees the potential for a significant narrowing of choice in the automotive market. He says, "With the power given them by the bail out, the government can simply mandate certain classes of cars and trucks out of existence, regardless of whether they are popular with American drivers or not."

After studying the government's response to GM's survival plan, Wolkonowicz believes that the only way for GM to secure government funds will be to become even smaller than they had proposed. The analyst expects GM to shrink to just two divisions, Cadillac and Chevrolet. Buick, Pontiac, GMC, Saturn, and HUMMER will all cease to exist.

While GM will soldier on in its smaller form, Wolkonowicz doesn't expect Chrysler to survive in its current form, even with news that Fiat has agreed to a broad partnership. If Wolkonowicz is wrong, the Fiat connection would provide Chrysler with needed small car vehicle platforms, but the fate of vehicles such as the Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300 doesn't look good.

Who Is At The Wheel?

This new age of government oversight in the automotive industry may progress using one of two strategies. The first path continues the current practice of setting regulations and then allowing manufacturers to meet those regulations. This allows manufacturers a high degree of flexibility in how they react while developing vehicles consumers want to drive.

However, the essential takeover of GM and Chrysler signals a more active role that will likely dramatically change the way the automakers do business. This second scenario removes the consumer from the auto manufacturing equation. Customer demand is directly superseded by political interest in ecology and energy policy. In other words, manufacturers will only sell vehicles the government allows them to sell.

Even with ever-present worries of fuel prices, some 70-percent of the orders for Chevrolet's all-new 2010 Camaro are for the V-8 edition that produces over 400 horsepower (while achieving up to 25 mpg on the highway). Clearly, American drivers want what they want. The question is whether that matches what the U.S. government will want Detroit to build.

Gallery: Pontiacs we'l never forget. from the article.

[PurdueGuy]

There are plenty of bureaucrats that love their Corvettes. Not so much rental cars with arrowheads on them.

[Cremazie]

^ The Corvette is profitable and low volume, a v8 that gets the best gas milage in its class.

[cletus8269]

"Bureaucrats have little use for performance-oriented V-8 powered cars, so don't expect cars like the Chevy Corvette, Dodge Viper, Chevrolet Camaro SS, or Dodge Challenger R/T to survive long term."

Really, Viper...V8? LOL This article is cereal biznasss HHAAAAhahaa

hehe well it is by AOL autos so i will be a little easier on em, but at least the guy puts out valid points how the new cars are more environmentally friendlier.

[DBeaSSt]

^ The Corvette is profitable and low volume, a v8 that gets the best gas milage in its class.

Now, now. No need to let facts get in the way of "making auto manufacturers green."

[Camino LS6]

Brave New World ?!!!

[Camino LS6]

Pelosi needs to be removed - yesterday.

[turbo200]

Now, now. No need to let facts get in the way of "making auto manufacturers green."

let's see. so far, GM has let go of Saturn, a subbrand marketed as fuel efficient and primarily functioning in the entry level segments of the industry providing mass market fuel efficient cars. saab is also gone, marketing turbo charged engines as an efficient way of producing more power and using less gas. pontiac is gone, marketed primarily in the mainstream midmarket with a fuel efficient midsize sedan, also produced other fuel efficient volume offerings, along with one performance sedan offering the best fuel economy of a V8 sedan. the only gas guzzling brand they've gotten rid of is hummer.

What remains? Cadillac? big engines, big luxury mass, big power, not gas efficient. Buick? big cars, relatively large engines, no compact offerings. GMC? i don't think i need to advertise what segments they compete in.

so far, GM's decisions seem swayed in favor of profitability, relevancy, and getting rid of excess [dealers especially]. corvette is profitable, so it'll likely stay. the administration has stated multiple times they have no desire to own a car company. they will use means, such as tax breaks, to encourage, and eventually influence, the proliferation of more fuel efficient and 'green' electric cars....but what the public wants the public is still gonna get. gm needs to make a profit in order to pay back the money they've borrowed. there are other issues that will determine the viability of the current configuration of the corvette. wealth and oil prices are two of those.

[hyperv6]

This is what I have been warning about. the goverment funding is not what is doing this it is the goverment regs. People before the election claimed they wanted change and I warned you may want to becareful what you wish for.

In the next 10 years the cars will be smaller and V8 will be expensive or very hard to get.

35 MPG and Emission rules are going to remove the fun cars from the line up. Even cars like my Ecotech Turbo may be a hard to find engine.

The party supported by the Green left are in charge and now will have a controling majority. We will see change and it is not change the auto enthusiast will like.

Not only will the auto companies be pressed here but the performance aftermarket will be in the sights of these people. You just needs to check some of the laws that have been attempted around the country that we will soon find on the plate of the federal goverment.

Law controling the changing of any non stock parts including wheels have been attempted. Yes tires and wheel have been targeted by green groups as they drive up green house gasses because they create more drag on a car and make it less efficent.

I have been told this kind of things will not happen by some in other threads here but it is getting closer every day. If your a car enthusiast and don't take this seriously you had better wake up.

There was a green group report that said fat people also contribute to global warming in serveral ways. Next you weight will become a goverment factor. Taxes on soft drinks and other tactics will attempted.

The green groups are going to change our lives if we like it or not. I am sure we all want clean air but we also want it done in a efficent practiacal matter. Not the manner that they want to force unresonable matters on our lives.

[Camino LS6]

The only hope is that they are overstepping their authority and supposed "mandate".

A backlash will come - I just hope it is strong enough.

[hyperv6]

The only hope is that they are overstepping their authority and supposed "mandate".

A backlash will come - I just hope it is strong enough.

I expect the next election for house and senate seats to see a lot of changes. The questions are how many laws will be passsed that will effect us in the time remaining.

These laws not only effect my hobby but how I make my living.

I am just waiting for Al Gore or someone else to try to connect this trumped up swine flu deal as a fall out from global warming. I am not joking as I am almost positive someone will try. It is that out of control.

Just look at the little florecent bulbs they are forcing on us. If you drop one the goverment has a 15 step guide line on how to clean them up as they contain a very small amount of mercury.

They are also improted from China and the present incandecent bulbs are made in KY. I wonder how clean the container ship is that brings in these bulbs and how much fuel it takes to bring in these bulbs?

[CaddyXLR-V]

the administration has stated multiple times they have no desire to own a car company.

Any product decision over $100M needs to be approved by the board appointed by the govt. That would be EVERY product decision. Don't underestimate Obama's desire to make the country more green to fit what the rest of the world wants.

[BuddyP]

Pelosi needs to be removed - yesterday.

Yup, and Nov. 2011 can't get here fast enough.

[gm4life]

The only hope is that they are overstepping their authority and supposed "mandate".

A backlash will come - I just hope it is strong enough.

Oh it will don't worry.

[Daryl Z71]

Pelosi needs to be removed - yesterday.

Damn beat me to it! Oh and I think Obama needs to fix the economy right now not worry about greener cars.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Daryl Z71

[Camino LS6]

I feel I need to clarify something here:

My dislike for Pelosi isn't a partisan thing, I simply feel that she is underqualified and dangerous as speaker.

Also, a swing back to the Republican side isn't what I hope for.

I hope for the realization of the grave nature of our current crisis to settle into the psyche of each and every office holder.

They need to see just how deep the hole we are in really is.

Extremists like Pelosi are hopeless in that regard.

[ZL-1]

I am all for more environmentally friendly cars, but I wouldn't want the Corvette to go the way of the dodo bird...

[evok]

According to John Wolkonowicz, Senior Analyst at HIS Global Insight, "With Obama's plan, everything changes in the domestic automotive world. The government will be able to dictate what General Motors and Chrysler can sell. Washington believes it knows what Americans should drive, and this bail out gives them the means to dramatically change the market." Wolkonowicz sees the potential for a significant narrowing of choice in the automotive market. He says, "With the power given them by the bail out, the government can simply mandate certain classes of cars and trucks out of existence, regardless of whether they are popular with American drivers or not."

This guy is an clown and I am being kind. His quotes get more and more comical.

Edited April 29, 2009 by evok

[Robert Hall]

Maybe Chevy can offer the Vette w/ the turbo 4 from Solstice or the Volt drivetrain.

[deftonesfan867]

This guy is an clown and I am being kind. His quotes get more and more comical.

Can't spell analyst w/o anal.

[gm4life]

Oh it will don't worry.

At least I hope.

[Daryl Z71]

I am all for more environmentally friendly cars, but I wouldn't want the Corvette to go the way of the dodo bird...

I don't mind them at all, I just don't think we need to get rid of every damn car out there thats not. If Im forced to buy a GREEN car I will not buy anything at all, because I want no parts in ownership of one.

[ocnblu]

A Corvette with less than 8 cylinders... that's rich.

[Robert Hall]

A Corvette with less than 8 cylinders... that's rich.

Could be a fun car if it weighed a bit less w/ the 3.6 DI engine...

[ocnblu]

Never with the name Corvette. If anything, maybe a smaller 2-seat Chevrolet roadster as a companion car... but NEVER a Corvette.

[Satty]

Never with the name Corvette. If anything, maybe a smaller 2-seat Chevrolet roadster as a companion car... but NEVER a Corvette.

[ocnblu]

Oh get that out of my face.

[Satty]

The precedent is there, as is the technology.

[Intrepidation]

Oh get that out of my face.

That's what she said.

[Camino LS6]

If any of you think that a non-V8 Corvette has a snowball's chance in hell, you are smoking some very bad stuff and should go directly to the ER.

[ocnblu]

A Kappa Stingray is one thing, but a Y-body 6 cylinder? Pishposh.

[Robert Hall]

If any of you think that a non-V8 Corvette has a snowball's chance in hell, you are smoking some very bad stuff and should go directly to the ER.

Never say never...these are interesting times...who knows what will happen to the Vette.

[Camino LS6]

Never say never...these are interesting times...who knows what will happen to the Vette.

It will die first - count on it.

[daves87rs]

The only hope is that they are overstepping their authority and supposed "mandate".

A backlash will come - I just hope it is strong enough.

Who many people do you know who have a spine?

Not enough, I'm sure...too many sheeple.....

It's going to happen, I'm quite sure of that......

[daves87rs]

If any of you think that a non-V8 Corvette has a snowball's chance in hell, you are smoking some very bad stuff and should go directly to the ER.

+1

[daves87rs]

That's what she said.

[daves87rs]

The precedent is there, as is the technology.

When I see it I'll believe it...it's all about the $$...

[Camino LS6]

Some details Satty left out concerning the Blue Flame six:

- When Corvette debuted, Chevy didn't have a v8

- The early six bangers were a sales flop, and Corvette was nearly cancelled.

- The V8 saved the car from extinction.

[Robert Hall]

Some details Satty left out concerning the Blue Flame six:

- When Corvette debuted, Chevy didn't have a v8

- The early six bangers were a sales flop, and Corvette was nearly cancelled.

- The V8 saved the car from extinction.

Yes, but that was nearly 55 years ago...the sports car market has evolved since then.

[cletus8269]

yeah i love the thought of the next vette sounding like

or maybe

Cause at the end of the day, when they sound like

or

or maybe even

you dont sound like a motorcycle on steroids.

Edited April 30, 2009 by cletus8269

[regfootball]

I feel I need to clarify something here:

My dislike for Pelosi isn't a partisan thing, I simply feel that she is underqualified and dangerous as speaker.

Also, a swing back to the Republican side isn't what I hope for.

I hope for the realization of the grave nature of our current crisis to settle into the psyche of each and every office holder.

They need to see just how deep the hole we are in really is.

Extremists like Pelosi are hopeless in that regard.

enraged crazy woman with a pulpit..........

[Nick]

Maybe Chevy can offer the Vette w/ the turbo 4 from Solstice or the Volt drivetrain.

Fancy seeing you again, Adam.

Someone had to say it.

[Robert Hall]

Fancy seeing you again, Adam.

Someone had to say it.

Auggghhhh...didn't think of it that way. Maybe some of his off-the-wall insane ideas were more prescient than we thought.. Who knows, maybe GM will base the C7 off the Kappa platform...at least it would still be RWD but lighter...

Edited April 30, 2009 by Cubical

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Hmm i thought it had to be a turbodiesel 4 cyl?

[ocnblu]

Cuticle, how much heavier is the Y-body convertible over the Kappa convertible? I don't think it's much, and the Y-body chassis is infinitely more competitive than Kappa. Kappa is fine as a fun roadster, but as a serious sports car, no dice.

[Robert Hall]

Cubicle, how much heavier is the Y-body convertible over the Kappa convertible? I don't think it's much, and the Y-body chassis is infinitely more competitive than Kappa. Kappa is fine as a fun roadster, but as a serious sports car, no dice.

Well, both are probably too heavy. The Kappa platform needs more development to be world class, no doubt. I'm thinking about a 2800lb sports car. Such a car doesn't need 400 or 600hp to be entertaining.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Cubical

[Camino LS6]

Well, both are probably too heavy. The Kappa platform needs more development to be world class, no doubt. I'm thinking about a 2800lb sports car. Such a car doesn't need 400 or 600hp to be entertaining.

But it has to be a V8 to be a Corvette.

Corvette is not simply a Halo for Chevy, It is a Corporate halo and American Icon.

It will never be powered by anything less than a V8.

The only way you will see a Corvette powered otherwise will be when the internal combustion engine itself goes out of production.

Until that day, Corvette is V8.

BTW: The Corvette is not "too heavy" whatsoever.

[Robert Hall]

But it has to be a V8 to be a Corvette.

Corvette is not simply a Halo for Chevy, It is a Corporate halo and American Icon.

It will never be powered by anything less than a V8.

The only way you will see a Corvette powered otherwise will be when the internal combustion engine itself goes out of production.

Until that day, Corvette is V8.

BTW: The Corvette is not "too heavy" whatsoever.

I'm trying to be realistic and think of a way the Corvette can survive...you can bet GM's bean counters are thinking of ways to cut the costs and make it smaller and more efficient. The future isn't going to be the past.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Cubical

[Camino LS6]

I'm trying to be realistic and think of a way the Corvette can survive...you can bet GM's bean counters are thinking of ways to cut the costs and make it smaller and more efficient. The future isn't going to be the past.

It will be a V8 forever, the car is already a showcase for fuel economy.

If they can't build it as a V8, they will kill it

They will have no choice.

Anything less would make them the laughingstock of the industry.

As long as GM builds trucks there will be V8s, and as long as there are V8s, one will live between the Vette's fenders.

The only thing that will kill the Corvette would be a lack of sales, even the overgreeen idiots don't have the nuts to take the V8 from Corvette.

[Intrepidation]

But it has to be a V8 to be a Corvette.

Corvette is not simply a Halo for Chevy, It is a Corporate halo and American Icon.

It will never be powered by anything less than a V8.

The only way you will see a Corvette powered otherwise will be when the internal combustion engine itself goes out of production.

Until that day, Corvette is V8.

BTW: The Corvette is not "too heavy" whatsoever.

This.