I am no longer a GM fan

[SAmadei]

A real American will stay with their American companies through thick and thin. If you are not happy with the direction of GM then go with Ford or Chrysler, but not a German nut can car company.

Not when they don't make product that appeals to you.

What are we going to do when the most exciting thing offered by the big two is an Impala. Or the largest car is a Cruze/Fusion? I'm not going to pay top dollar for a car that I can't stomach or fit into. (Yeah, I'm more likely to buy a car I can't stomach if its a few years old and won't depreciate driving off the lot).

And why bother supporting an American industry when those people are cutting their own throats by busily shopping for Chinese made crap at Walmart and buying Toyotas in bulk, while waiting for someone in the government to bail them out of their toxic mortgage.

Where are the people lamenting the American TV industry? Well, at some point Zenith (the last American built TV sets) had to switch operations because the American TV industry simply did not work any more. Well, its my feeling that the American car industry is on the verge of being inoperatible, regardless if I buy an token Impala, that I have little interest in driving, or not.

[Daryl Z71]

Not when they don't make product that appeals to you.

What are we going to do when the most exciting thing offered by the big two is an Impala. Or the largest car is a Cruze/Fusion? I'm not going to pay top dollar for a car that I can't stomach or fit into. (Yeah, I'm more likely to buy a car I can't stomach if its a few years old and won't depreciate driving off the lot).

And why bother supporting an American industry when those people are cutting their own throats by busily shopping for Chinese made crap at Walmart and buying Toyotas in bulk, while waiting for someone in the government to bail them out of their toxic mortgage.

Where are the people lamenting the American TV industry? Well, at some point Zenith (the last American built TV sets) had to switch operations because the American TV industry simply did not work any more. Well, its my feeling that the American car industry is on the verge of being inoperatible, regardless if I buy an token Impala, that I have little interest in driving, or not.

Then maybe you should go join a Porshe Forum?

[A Horse With No Name]

It's over.

I can't support such a company any longer.

Because of that, I cannot remain a part of the staff of C&G.

I value the friends I have made here, and I don't intend to disappear completely, but this site has always been about the future of GM - and I no longer believe it has one.

So, as of tomorrow, I hope to be just a regular member here. I will stop by now and then, read a bit, post about old cars, and be on my way again.

To do otherwise would be dishonest.

Believe me, I know how you feel.

I had a neighbor once who worked for GM. He talked about what it would be like when GM had to build a Cadillac on a VW Chasis...sad thing is, we're going to have the VW chasis but no Cadillac with the way we are going.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

What a $h!ty deal.

+1

Chris

[Oracle of Delphi]

Yes, please enlight those of us in pain right now...

I think I'm better off saying nothing. Wait and see what happens by June 1st if anything ...

[G. David Felt]

BMW and Porsche have stayed true to their heritage. They are not trying to be like Toyota. I don't trust Chryslers reliability, and I don't like Fords styling. If I am ever in the market for a pickup though, it will be a Ford. I am going to buy what I like, simple as that.

Then you might as well start by dropping the CaddyXLR-V since it is a dead product and choose something from a company in business that makes a current product you like.

If everyone not onlyl bought what they like but always bought non American product we would never have amounted to the country we became before the last 8 years of Rich indulgance and self destruction that has left us in the current possion we are now in.

Demming and Drucker attempted to teach to the American Auto industry, all industry about long term planning and quality products. Sadly most Americans tend to think of only their own selfishness and instant gratification and now we wonder why we are in the poor shape we are now in.

I agree and support peoples right to buy what they like and freedom of choice, I just ask that people take a hard look at where they spend their hard earned money and does it really help our country and your fellow citizen or does it help a foriegn owned company and country.

[ponchoman49]

I agree 100%. Other than the Camaro and a couple of other GM products, my next year round car purchase will be a Ford. They are making 1000% more sense than GM in the last 10 years or so. So far GM has managed to drop just about every one of my favorite cars and divisions leaving the entry level cheap Chevrolet, Stodgy Buick with 2 substandard cars and one overpriced land yatch, Cadillac which is way out of my price range and has managed to dilute there brand with dumb letter name cars, plain exterior styling(Escalade and DTS aside) and too many costly gimmicks and the redundant GMC. Thi site sadly will become a place to visit only for the older stuff and nostalgia.

[Intrepidation]

Excuse, but how the hellis the CTS plain?

Also, you people do realize what Pontiac sells is no more exclusive or expensive than if it was sold as a Chevy right? Oh look, it has an arrow and a G#...EXCLUSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While I feel you guys and that loosing a brand sucks, refusing to buy GM again because of it just defies logic, especially since, with the exception of the G8, you can buy the same damn thing at another brand.

[balthazar]

Camino- I always found it curious you seemed to base your support of GM on future products; in contrast - I have always based it on past products I've owned and still dream to own. I find it difficult to support an entity on something that doesn't exist yet.

I understand your position RE product potentially coming, then not completely: that disappointment. But you have so much good history together. "GM" is so much more than this very moment.

I can no more abandon GM than I can disown my own family- the bond was forged in years past- I don't know how to unforge it- even as my enthusiasm for the modern Corp is tremendously muted due to the nature of the Modern Car. I certainly am not going to switch to a manufacturer that has never appealed to me previously on the hopes of what they may build in the future. And were I to define myself; I am a Pontiac Man.

Peace to your car soul, brother Camino. Hopefully time will heal some.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Then you might as well start by dropping the CaddyXLR-V since it is a dead product and choose something from a company in business that makes a current product you like.

If everyone not onlyl bought what they like but always bought non American product we would never have amounted to the country we became before the last 8 years of Rich indulgance and self destruction that has left us in the current possion we are now in.

Demming and Drucker attempted to teach to the American Auto industry, all industry about long term planning and quality products. Sadly most Americans tend to think of only their own selfishness and instant gratification and now we wonder why we are in the poor shape we are now in.

I agree and support peoples right to buy what they like and freedom of choice, I just ask that people take a hard look at where they spend their hard earned money and does it really help our country and your fellow citizen or does it help a foriegn owned company and country.

If I could change my name on here, I would have already. I'm fine with my money going to Germany. I gave GM more than a fair chance to earn my money(what a concept, earning something) and they blew it.

[G. David Felt]

Camino- I always found it curious you seemed to base your support of GM on future products; in contrast - I have always based it on past products I've owned and still dream to own. I find it difficult to support an entity on something that doesn't exist yet.

I understand your position RE product potentially coming, then not completely: that disappointment. But you have so much good history together. "GM" is so much more than this very moment.

I can no more abandon GM than I can disown my own family- the bond was forged in years past- I don't know how to unforge it- even as my enthusiasm for the modern Corp is tremendously muted due to the nature of the Modern Car. I certainly am not going to switch to a manufacturer that has never appealed to me previously on the hopes of what they may build in the future. And were I to define myself; I am a Pontiac Man.

Peace to your car soul, brother Camino. Hopefully time will heal some.

+1000

Balthazar, I have to say you really stated it well. This is a very hard time for the General and things will always change and at this time it seems we need to do some very painful change, but as a person who grew up with a dad running his own auto shop and saying every year one of the detroit 3 has a better year than the others and be flexible, he also said if you loved a maker of a car line even if they killed it off, give them time as they always end up coming out with something you will love.

Unlike some who seem to just want to rip on the so called bland styles of auto's. I have stayed true to my heart even when GM did not have much that I liked in the late 90's.

Yet I ended up supporting the General well in the last few years and will still support them.

[G. David Felt]

If I could change my name on here, I would have already. I'm fine with my money going to Germany. I gave GM more than a fair chance to earn my money(what a concept, earning something) and they blew it.

I am Sure DF or one of the admins could assist you with a name change if you would like that. While I have not looked, I would think you could do it in the profile settings but I could be wrong.

Good Luck.

[Intrepidation]

Camino- I always found it curious you seemed to base your support of GM on future products; in contrast - I have always based it on past products I've owned and still dream to own. I find it difficult to support an entity on something that doesn't exist yet.

I understand your position RE product potentially coming, then not completely: that disappointment. But you have so much good history together. "GM" is so much more than this very moment.

I can no more abandon GM than I can disown my own family- the bond was forged in years past- I don't know how to unforge it- even as my enthusiasm for the modern Corp is tremendously muted due to the nature of the Modern Car. I certainly am not going to switch to a manufacturer that has never appealed to me previously on the hopes of what they may build in the future. And were I to define myself; I am a Pontiac Man.

Peace to your car soul, brother Camino. Hopefully time will heal some.

Very well said, balthazar.

[CaddyXLR-V]

For the record, I have nothing against buying older GM vehicles. I will still own a 67 GTO one day, whether GM is still alive at that time or not. But when it comes to new cars, GM is no longer on my radar. My father also owned his own autobody shop, and I have seen dozens upon dozens of GM vehicles in my family. But that doesn't change the fact that GM currently is clueless, and is getting rid of a big piece of what made GM great in the first place.

[ocnblu]

My lifelong interest in the car hobby evaporated today, April 27, 2009. This is depressing, no doubt. I have no idea what I'll do next. Yes, we'll always have the old stuff to smile upon. But hope for the future is dead.

[Intrepidation]

My lifelong interest in the car hobby evaporated today, April 27, 2009. This is depressing, no doubt. I have no idea what I'll do next. Yes, we'll always have the old stuff to smile upon. But hope for the future is dead.

I'm starting to feel like a broken record...

As long as the company exists their will always be hope for the future. there are still products for enthusiasts to get excited about.

Ocn, if the Pontiac thing bothers you so much, how come you didn't buy a G5?

[SAmadei]

My lifelong interest in the car hobby evaporated today, April 27, 2009. This is depressing, no doubt. I have no idea what I'll do next. Yes, we'll always have the old stuff to smile upon. But hope for the future is dead.

Exactly. My lifelong interest in the new GM car hobby died today, as well.

Hell, I will even say that its possible I will own a future Camaro (to convert into a Firebird), but I'm going to be damned if I buy it from GM.

Its called boycotting. It would have been better had GM not produced the G8. Or teased us with the G8 ST. GM has frigging taunted us with what they _can_ produce, but _won't_ produce. Its happened for decades... as soon as GM gets is right, it gets cancelled. We're back where we were in 1997... only foreign customers get the good stuff. Well, no frigging more... GM can't hurt me by cancelling what I couldn't care less about... such as the Cobalt, LaCrosse, Impala, Malibu, DTS, etc. However, I can hurt GM by cancelling them from future consideration.

So, GM, good luck on that future. I'm no longer in support of my taxpayer money bailing your burning carcass out.

[Bimmer325]

So, the death of Pontiac caused your interest in cars to "evaporate?"

Sorry, but if that's the case, you weren't a car enthusiast to begin with. There are plenty of brands around that make more exciting cars than Pontiac.

[Intrepidation]

Exactly. My lifelong interest in the new GM car hobby died today, as well.

Hell, I will even say that its possible I will own a future Camaro (to convert into a Firebird), but I'm going to be damned if I buy it from GM.

Its called boycotting. It would have been better had GM not produced the G8. Or teased us with the G8 ST. GM has frigging taunted us with what they _can_ produce, but _won't_ produce. Its happened for decades... as soon as GM gets is right, it gets cancelled. We're back where we were in 1997... only foreign customers get the good stuff. Well, no frigging more... GM can't hurt me by cancelling what I couldn't care less about... such as the Cobalt, LaCrosse, Impala, Malibu, DTS, etc. However, I can hurt GM by cancelling them from future consideration.

So, GM, good luck on that future. I'm no longer in support of my taxpayer money bailing your burning carcass out.

So why don't you buy a G8 then? One last hurrah.

[ocnblu]

Dodgefan, what say do you have in this? Try Allpar.

[Intrepidation]

So, the death of Pontiac caused your interest in cars to "evaporate?"

Sorry, but if that's the case, you weren't a car enthusiast to begin with. There are plenty of brands around that make more exciting cars than Pontiac.

[Intrepidation]

Dodgefan, what say do you have in this? Try Allpar.

Try not being a jerk.

[SAmadei]

Then maybe you should go join a Porshe Forum?

I'm not into Porsches.

I was, however, one of "GM's Biggest Fans" and now I am one of their "Toughest Critics".

I don't recall that the purchase of a recent GM car from GM was a requirement here. GM has told me in no uncertain terms that they do not want my new vehicle business.

I will still be a fan of pre-2010 GM. And I'll still be buying from GMPP and making the occasional trip to the dealer for parts.

However, BMW is likely to be my new car source.

[SAmadei]

So why don't you buy a G8 then? One last hurrah.

Working on that, but my local dealer isn't interested in getting one I want. For reasons well beyond the scope of this thread, I don't have the time opportunity to check out every other dealer in South Jersey to get one.

I very well may have to buy one sight unseen and shipped from Gay Pontiac, as they seem to be able to get their hands on GXPs.

Its a race against the clock now during a time window where I really didn't want to add a $700 car payment to things... and paying cash isn't a real option because that is earmarked for something more important.

[ocnblu]

Bimmer, Pontiac's death is huge, and it feels like a final straw after spending a lifetime living and breathing GM and feeling good about and defending their market position as the world's #1 car maker.

As far as your statement about Pontiac... you need a clue, boy. As long as the brand was around, there was hope for a return to greatness... there was always the right now and the future, that promise of tomorrow. That is done. It's a real death.

If I must clarify myself, I am not as much a car enthusiast as I have been a GM enthusiast. Let's say you love watching a certain sport because you have a favorite team. Things are proceeding, and then suddenly the team is cut from the league. Tell me truthfully if you can... will you be able to maintain your enthusiasm? Don't lie.

Edited April 27, 2009 by ocnblu

[Intrepidation]

Working on that, but my local dealer isn't interested in getting one I want. For reasons well beyond the scope of this thread, I don't have the time opportunity to check out every other dealer in South Jersey to get one.

I very well may have to buy one sight unseen and shipped from Gay Pontiac, as they seem to be able to get their hands on GXPs.

Its a race against the clock now during a time window where I really didn't want to add a $700 car payment to things... and paying cash isn't a real option because that is earmarked for something more important.

That's understandable, well best of luck if you get one.

[Daryl Z71]

IDK Ive always had a dependable good running vehicle when I bought GM, and that makes it hard for me to just jump ship in 10 minutes.

[daves87rs]

So, the death of Pontiac caused your interest in cars to "evaporate?"

Sorry, but if that's the case, you weren't a car enthusiast to begin with. There are plenty of brands around that make more exciting cars than Pontiac.

+2

It hurts, but damn, if this is all it takes....

[daves87rs]

Bimmer, Pontiac's death is huge, and it feels like a final straw after spending a lifetime living and breathing GM and feeling good about and defending their market position as the world's #1 car maker.

As far as your statement about Pontiac... you need a clue, boy. As long as the brand was around, there was hope for a return to greatness... there was always the right now and the future, that promise of tomorrow. That is done. It's a real death.

If I must clarify myself, I am not as much a car enthusiast as I have been a GM enthusiast. Let's say you love watching a certain sport because you have a favorite team. Things are proceeding, and then suddenly the team is cut from the league. Tell me truthfully if you can... will you be able to maintain your enthusiasm? Don't lie.

And how long have I been telling you guys these "future" cars are going to suck?

It's going to start at GM, and hit other brands as well...nothing is going to be safe from all the "greening".....

And as far as sport teams go, I thought our football team was gone long ago..(detriot lions)...and sure they will be back some day...

[Cory Wolfe]

As I've stated, I stop caring about GM a while ago. They're dead to me. This just further extends that.

With that said, Camino, I hope you stick around. Many of us, here, have moved beyond GM. We still stick around for our general enthusiasm of the automobile. As much history as you have with the company. You will always have the past to remember and love. I will still own the Fiero I've always wanted one of these days. I've pondered over many Firebirds as well. While I will not go as far as some on here and tell you about how you can still support the company for further events you shouldn't hold your breath for, I will say that there's no reason to forget and certainly no reason to lesson your role in this forum. A great personality will be lost, whether we agreed or disagreed with you.

[Robert Hall]

I've always been a general car enthusiast, owned Ford, GM, BMW, and Chrysler products. I just love cars and driving in general...there are definitely some current GMs I'd like to own at some point in time or another, including the G8. I'm saddened to see Pontiac exit, but this has been coming on for a long time... I'm not going to give up on my car enthusiasm.

[frogger]

While I've never been a loyalist of any one car brand, I found GM to have a number of models that appealed to me (to go along with several that I could care less about). Pontiac the name does nothing for me though (nor does any other car brand name GM or not) and I feel the loss of the G8 more than Pontiac as a brand name since its the first Pontiac that I find very appealing built in 20+ years.

[mustang84]

And how long have I been telling you guys these "future" cars are going to suck?

It's going to start at GM, and hit other brands as well...nothing is going to be safe from all the "greening".....

I am holding out that perhaps Ford may become the rebel of the bunch....

[Robert Hall]

And how long have I been telling you guys these "future" cars are going to suck?

It's going to start at GM, and hit other brands as well...nothing is going to be safe from all the "greening".....

Well, if everything is as cool as the Prius and Insight, we have nothing to worry about for the future....

[Intrepidation]

I think Chrysler may yet hang onto their rebel status...RWD midsize car in a see of FWD midsizers? That's rebellious.

[ShadowDog]

Camino, you're worth the read. The only foresight I have if you were to stay is that most of your future posts would likely have a great deal of skepticism and potential negativity for a car maker that has wronged its particular brand fans. If that's the case, perhaps your choice is just; on the other hand, that note I mentioned in another thread of lodging complaints and letter writing campaigns now may help steer direction later, but for the better.

Food for thought?

[Robert Hall]

I think Chrysler may yet hang onto their rebel status...RWD midsize car in a see of FWD midsizers? That's rebellious.

Ya...I really hope Chrysler survives and once again thrives.... and I hope the 200C and NG 300C and Charger make it to production, along w/ the 4th gen GC.

[Intrepidation]

BTW I'm still going to call you moltar.

[Robert Hall]

BTW I'm still going to call you moltar.

N/P...I'll probably get bored of Cubical and switch back someday...

[daves87rs]

Well, if everything is as cool as the Prius and Insight, we have nothing to worry about for the future....

But that is more for the techies...granted, they look cool....

[vonVeezelsnider]

Bimmer, Pontiac's death is huge, and it feels like a final straw after spending a lifetime living and breathing GM and feeling good about and defending their market position as the world's #1 car maker.

As far as your statement about Pontiac... you need a clue, boy. As long as the brand was around, there was hope for a return to greatness... there was always the right now and the future, that promise of tomorrow. That is done. It's a real death.

If I must clarify myself, I am not as much a car enthusiast as I have been a GM enthusiast. Let's say you love watching a certain sport because you have a favorite team. Things are proceeding, and then suddenly the team is cut from the league. Tell me truthfully if you can... will you be able to maintain your enthusiasm? Don't lie.

Look I completely agree with Ocn... Some of us have a "threshold brand" that would ruin it for us if it was gone. Mine happens to be Cadillac... outside of GM that brand is Lincoln.

[Satty]

Meh, just another Monday. Tomorrow will be just another Tuesday.

[daves87rs]

Look I completely agree with Ocn... Some of us have a "threshold brand" that would ruin it for us if it was gone. Mine happens to be Cadillac... outside of GM that brand is Lincoln.

While I can agree, after you have seen a bunch of change, I think you just get used to it....nothing suprises me any more.

[Bimmer325]

Bimmer, Pontiac's death is huge, and it feels like a final straw after spending a lifetime living and breathing GM and feeling good about and defending their market position as the world's #1 car maker.

As far as your statement about Pontiac... you need a clue, boy. As long as the brand was around, there was hope for a return to greatness... there was always the right now and the future, that promise of tomorrow. That is done. It's a real death.

I understand where you're coming from, ocn.

One thing you need to understand is that we're from two different generations. Throughout my lifetime, Pontiac has churned out mediocre product after mediocre product. I know ten people who have rented a Pontiac, and not one person who owns a Pontiac. Pontiac is more of a marketing ploy than a carmaker. They don't engineer cars. The G8 is the best Pontiac produced during my lifetime. The G8 isn't a Pontiac. It was developed by Holden and rebadged as a Pontiac. So many people here refer to Pontiac as this focused, thoroughbred performance brand, forgetting that nobody born in the last 20 years has any reason to think of Pontiac as anywhere near that. They've built shoddy Grand Ams, Avis-queen Grand Prixes, death-trap minivans, floaty Bonnevilles and embarrassingly styled junk for my entire lifetime.

I'm sorry for the loss of the Pontiac you remember. But that was a damn long time ago, and a whole generation of people alive today don't care. And it's not our fault. It's GM's.

[Intrepidation]

Meh, just another Monday. Tomorrow will be just another Tuesday.

NO WAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Satty]

NO WAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I realized my true priorities a long, long time ago, getting emotionally invested in an inanimate object, or the label on that inanimate object just takes away from whats really important in life.

[Intrepidation]

WAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I realized my true priorities a long, long time ago, getting emotionally invested in an inanimate object, or the label on that inanimate object just takes away from whats really important in life.

I have an emotional attachment to my cars, but not anywhere near on the same level as actual people (or pets) that are close to me.

[Robert Hall]

WAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I realized my true priorities a long, long time ago, getting emotionally invested in an inanimate object, or the label on that inanimate object just takes away from whats really important in life.

Ya... tomorrow is another day, a new sunrise, another commute, another 8 hrs in the cube...life goes on.

[daves87rs]

We need hugs!

[Satty]

I actually miss my cube. My "office" is actually smaller that the cube I was in, although I'm the only desk in the office. When I had a full team, we couldn't hold meetings in my office because it wasn't possible to fit 5 people in there comfortably. Since I canned that dude and cleaned off my desk, we can get everyone in. 3 people in chairs, one unfortunate soul sitting on top of my desk.