[Updated] Pontiac Officially Dead in 2010 as of 04/27/2009

[Robert Hall]

it's more a reflection of the public in general. i guess it can't be helped but too much sht these days is media driven people don't even test drive or cross shop alternatives. really gm's disaster of a pr dept should be as much to blame for gm's downfall as anything. letting lutz talk in public for one.......duct tape his mouth and send oprah $$$$ to say GM is green.....

My experience has been the general public couldn't care less whether GM lives or dies..they are happy with their Accord, Camry or other appliance.

[gm4life]

Well if Pontiac dies I really do hope that Buick can stay around along with GMC. I know how much this sucks for a Pontiac man, and would never want to put a fellow GM fan through it with "their" brand. In the mean time, while I own two great Pontiac's I very well could be adding a 3rd, might as well seen as they won't be around for ever. Also my Bonneville has a an odd dent/paint chip on the front fender, time for her to go to the body shop. The point being I am going to keep my Pontiac's I have for a while and Bonneville prolly till I die or my son gets me to give it up. That 2001 GP SE looks even more appealing after hearing all this news. I do fear GM could very well be Cadillac and Chevrolet, and I hope then Chevy would have a great SS line-up WITH performance, and no-excuses cars IN EVERY segment.

Edited April 25, 2009 by gm4life

[Intrepidation]

Damn right I would consider a Genesis, it's a RWD 2+2 sports car that isn't half-assed in any way. It's a genuine driver's car. Much more than the sad excuse for EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!! that the G6 coupe is. I respect Hyundai/Kia because every successive model they create has been leaps and bound better than the one it replaced.

With Pontiac, it's always one step forward and to steps back. For every Solstice you have a Torrent, a G6. For every G8 you have a Cobalt and a f@#king Aveo. It's been like this for years and that's sickening.

Nevertheless I have said multiple times (for those who have poor memory) that I plan to own a G8 at some point (preferably a GXP but I bet teh value of those will skyrocket).

[Intrepidation]

I'm sad that GM couldn't get it's ass in gear 15 years ago and make Pontiac into a strong brand. If they had, it wouldn't be getting the axe.

[saturnd00d]

I guess what I am saying is: Why would you not buy the same product rebadged and supported at a Chevrolet dealer? What are you going to buy if Pontiac is indeed dead? A Camry?

See my mentality differs from yours. My family has bought GM since my dad first came to Canada in 1968. He has supported them throughout the years with his low income but nonetheless, never hesitated.

If he were alive today you can bet he would have a change of heart just like I do.

Why support a company who isnt on the same page as you are?

I want build quality and fuel efficiency in a small package. I dont see that over at chevy [and where I do is in a premium-priced vehicle costing way more than it should like both the Cruze and Volt]. You might laugh but I do see that more and more over at Hyundai. They are seriously stepping up their game and I think its only a matter of time before they catch up to [and pass] Honda and Toyota.

Edited April 25, 2009 by saturnd00d

[FloydHendershot]

My business is going everywhere else, except GM. I now feel bad for all the times I have defended GM and convinced people to buy GM vehicles. Now, it is my mission to convince people to NOT buy GM.

Ah so you have become much the same as the other juvenile asinine posters populating the internet wishing GM dead because this time baby lost his bonnet. Making it your mission? Surely you can find better motives to justify your existence.

There has been no brand autonomy for years. The same people that make Pontiac make Chevy and Buick and Cadillac and GMC still.

The goal is to create a stronger company that can deliver products that ensure its future so it can still provide cars, and jobs for the people designing and building those cars for the rest of country that may still care. Pontiac does not make GM and if all the Pontiac customers went elsewhere so be it. There wasn't enough of you to begin with anyway.

'Tis a pity. :smilies-38096:

[daves87rs]

Oh yeah...

I'm avoiding this site on Monday....

Damn, if you guys think this is bad, you haven't seen anything yet....

[balthazar]

My experience has been the general public couldn't care less whether GM lives or dies..they are happy with their Accord, Camry or other appliance.

honda sales are comparatively low. toyota is neck & neck with GM (this disasterous year aside). toyoota is about as generically-insipid & appliance-like as they come- I fail to see how the general public could care anymore about toyota or honda- there is a plethora of choice in each segment any modern mainstream buyer could flip to with little adjustment or lament. The general public cares VERY little for any mainstream manufacturer living or dieing, but this is the nature of modern consumerism.

[Daryl Z71]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/24...c-close-plants/

Previously, GM said it would keep one or two Pontiac models as a niche brand. But the Obama administration is pressuring GM to go further in downsizing its money-losing operations.

Election 2012 CANNOT get here fast enough!!!

lol you got that right.

[Daryl Z71]

Looks like I won't be considering GM for a new car purchase when I decide the time will come.

In fact, next summer's purchase might just be my last GM purchase entirely.

My business is going to Ford.

Im not buying anything new AGAIN!

[daves87rs]

Im not buying anything new AGAIN!

You can save a bunch of money...

[Intrepidation]

By switching to Geico!

[Satty]

By switching to Geico!

Nope, Obama wanted them to change their spokesreptile from the gecko to an iguana.

[Daryl Z71]

lol Im just not buying anything because of the Economy you never know anymore when its gonna take a crap. I bought my other truck (05 Silverado) two years ago, and thats not even enough time to get it paid for. I bought my 09 and BAM 2 months later I get laid off. I only bought a new one because I figured what the hell I still have 3 years left to pay on the other so If I can't find another job I lose one either way! lol

[Intrepidation]

Nope, Obama wanted them to change their spokesreptile from the gecko to an iguana.

Curse you!! *shakes fist*

[Intrepidation]

I'm not going to buy a new car until I have the funds to physically hand them the money for it. I don't want payments. I want my car to be mine the moment I sign the papers and drive it off the lot.

Until then I am more than happy with my cars

[Robert Hall]

honda sales are comparatively low. toyota is neck & neck with GM (this disasterous year aside). toyoota is about as generically-insipid & appliance-like as they come- I fail to see how the general public could care anymore about toyota or honda- there is a plethora of choice in each segment any modern mainstream buyer could flip to with little adjustment or lament. The general public cares VERY little for any mainstream manufacturer living or dieing, but this is the nature of modern consumerism.

If you haven't paid attention, the Accord, Civic, and Camry have been in the top 10 in car sales in the US for years... so obviously, the public like their product..

[hyperv6]

DAMN STRAIGHT!

I learned to drive on a Pontiac, my family has bought several

and my parents, esp. my father would consider it his favorite

brand... we've bought a few Chevys but he always preferred

Pontiacs for their sportier style.

When working as a salesman for Bill DeLuca Chevrolet/Pontiac

GMC/Buick I sold my parents their 2001 Grand Am GT, ordered

with EVERY single option available except for the engine block

heater since it's not necessary here in Southern New England.

They still have that car, it's their most favorite car they've

ever had.... My dad would buy a G8 in a heartbeat if it were in

the budget and the only reason they bough the Cobalt is

because either way, even if they had the G5, you're sill buying

a Cobalt. The Grand Am stands out quite well against the

Malibu or Century. (same price range)

The question is how many here crying over the loss of Pontiac has bought one new in the last I will open it up to 25 years? Have you bought one?

So many complain about the loss but few have shown real support with their money.

If GM can't sell many here who think it is a crime to kill Pontiac then who would they sell them too?

I have had a new 1985 Fiero, 1990 GP, 1997 SSEI and a 2004 GTP Comp G in the last 25 years. All were good cars but the 1990. The big reason they did stand out were the rest of cars from GM for the most part was so bad. Chevy had things like the Celeberty, Olds the Ciera and Buick the Century need I say more. I still have two of the Pontiacs yet but I moved on so the end is not effecting me as much as it will some others. I did reall y did not leave Pontiac they left me when they lost the performance.

My daily driver is a 13 second 1/4 mile car that gets 30 MPG highway and can haul a 9 foot ladder inside. It wears a bow tie.

I will miss Pontiac but not as much as I would have a few years ago. I was brought home from the Hospital in a 1960 Ventura as wa smy son in the SSEI. I have lapped the indy speed way at over 100 MPH in a Pontiac and even won my class in the largest Pontiac show in the country 7 times. I have been a Pontiac club president and even had one of my Pontiac's Featured in several Pontiac magazines. I own rare prototype Pontiac parts. have driven nearly all the great Pontiacs from the past including SD cars and most years of GTO.

I guess I see it as I will always have this heritage and back ground with the older cars but the new cars have done nothing for me and I see few really collecting any other than the G8 and Solstice. I may lose future cars but at the rate they were going I do not see much coming anyway.

GM will own the name and if things are right a niche brand could always comeback if they have the right product for the time. A performance car that fits the market not their past would be ideal and could be sold at a Buick dealer later on. There is no reason they could return any past GM car line if they have the right product or a need. But like Olds is there really a need for them today....No!

Anyone else here have any show of support of a new Pontiac in the last 25 years?

[SAmadei]

Ah so you have become much the same as the other juvenile asinine posters populating the internet wishing GM dead because this time baby lost his bonnet. Making it your mission? Surely you can find better motives to justify your existence.

There has been no brand autonomy for years. The same people that make Pontiac make Chevy and Buick and Cadillac and GMC still.

Its not brand autonomy that bothers me, as long as there was some brand distinction. It's the product... and Chevy can't be everything to everybody.

It begs the question, why buy GM? Well, Pontiacs were more aggressive in appearance and handling once... that appealed to me. How will Chevys be aggressive when they are trying to reach the cheapest depths? It simply does not appeal to me for a new car purchase.

As far as making it a mission... well, my mission as auto sage was lost years ago, since I was so foolish to recommend GM products to people who want Hondas, Toyotas and BMWs. My mission and existence is to provide for my family and enjoy cars. GM brings little joy to me anymore... and this official announcement will snuff it on Monday.

If I have to eat my pride and change brands, I'm not going to do it twice. I'm going to go to one without compromise that will be around because they are not run by a bunch of idiots.

Edited April 25, 2009 by SAmadei

[Intrepidation]

Its not brand autonomy that bothers me, as long as there was some brand distinction. It's the product... and Chevy can't be everything to everybody.

It begs the question, why buy GM? Well, Pontiacs were more aggressive in appearance and handling once... that appealed to me. How will Chevys be aggressive when they are trying to reach the cheapest depths?

As far as making it a mission... well, my mission as auto sage was lost years ago, since I was so foolish to recommend GM products to people who want Hondas, Toyotas and BMWs. My mission and existence is to provide for my family and enjoy cars. GM brings little joy to me anymore... and this official announcement will snuff it on Monday.

If I have to eat my pride and change brands, I'm not going to do it twice. I'm going to go to one without compromise that will be around because they are not run by a bunch of idiots.

You're looking at it wrong. Chevy is not "cheapest" anymore. They are the everyman brand. That doesn't mean they are cheap. Have you taken a good look at a G6 and a Malibu lately? In every possible way the Malibu is a better, higher quality car. Have you seen the Camaro lately? Would you not call that aggressive? How about the Cobalt SS? The G5 doesn't even have a GXP version to match that. Lest we forget the Corvette.

Chevy can be everything to everyone except luxury...and that's where Cadillac and Buick come in.

[SAmadei]

You're looking at it wrong. Chevy is not "cheapest" anymore. They are the everyman brand. That doesn't mean they are cheap. Have you taken a good look at a G6 and a Malibu lately? In every possible way the Malibu is a better, higher quality car. Have you seen the Camaro lately? Would you not call that aggressive? How about the Cobalt SS? The G5 doesn't even have a GXP version to match that. Lest we forget the Corvette.

Chevy can be everything to everyone except luxury...and that's where Cadillac and Buick come in.

Corvette is legacy... in 1953, GM didn't know if it was going to be a roadster or a station wagon.

I have always considered the Camaro to be a bit bland. Very nice bland, but bland, nonetheless.

Cobalt SS... not aggressive. Looks like every other Cobalt. Yeah, I like sleepers, but not coma.

Malibu... better, higher quality... well, it better... its got a 4 year head start over the G6. GM needs quality in _all_ cars. And a cheap car can still be built with quality. When you got a '68 Biscayne with a straight six, the '68 Impala with a 427 had the same quality parts.

So, what is the "everyman"? Average income is $25K-$35K, depending on your description of "average income". So, either the "everyman" spends nearly a year's income on a stripper car (going by MSRP), buys a used car or a new Aveo/Cobalt. Cheap cheap cheap. If you have a family... you got limited options for what you can squeeze three kids into. Anyway, the "everymen" I know think Chevies are cheap... and its going to take GM 20 years to convince them otherwise. Everyman=cheap... its been like that for a century. Many people buying Toyotas and Hondas THINK they are buying upmarket.

I'm not an everyman... but I don't want a Buick or Cadillac yet... where does that leave me?

[Intrepidation]

Corvette is legacy... in 1953, GM didn't know if it was going to be a roadster or a station wagon.

I have always considered the Camaro to be a bit bland. Very nice bland, but bland, nonetheless.

Cobalt SS... not aggressive. Looks like every other Cobalt. Yeah, I like sleepers, but not coma.

Malibu... better, higher quality... well, it better... its got a 4 year head start over the G6. GM needs quality in _all_ cars. And a cheap car can still be built with quality. When you got a '68 Biscayne with a straight six, the '68 Impala with a 427 had the same quality parts.

So, what is the "everyman"? Average income is $25K-$35K, depending on your description of "average income". So, either the "everyman" spends nearly a year's income on a stripper car (going by MSRP), buys a used car or a new Aveo/Cobalt. Cheap cheap cheap. If you have a family... you got limited options for what you can squeeze three kids into. Anyway, the "everymen" I know think Chevies are cheap... and its going to take GM 20 years to convince them otherwise. Everyman=cheap... its been like that for a century. Many people buying Toyotas and Hondas THINK they are buying upmarket.

I'm not an everyman... but I don't want a Buick or Cadillac yet... where does that leave me?

So if you consider the Camaro "bland" what the hell do you consider aggressive? A G6 with bugs bunny teeth and a big wing? I can't think of many cars...nothing under 50k that are anywhere near as aggressive, and certainly nothing Pontiac has to offer.

Your argument about the Cobalt brings Pontiac further into question. Ok, it's a sleeper...but it has aggressive performance the "performance" division's clone doesn't.

The G6 has had plenty of time, and a "MCE" to fix it's shortcomings.

Your argument seems to be based on a GM brand strategy that hasn't really existed for decades. Times have changed and Chevy can fill the performance and the everyman group at the same time. Pontiac is a joke to most people besides the G8 (which could easily be an Impala replacement) and the Solstice, which you can find over at your Saturn dealer.

[Intrepidation]

I think Pontiac had a lot of potential, and had a few good cars recently the upheld to it's ideal image, but the brandhas been dragged through the mud so much over teh decades that it's mostly a rebadge brand anyway...I just don't see how you wouldn't buy another GM since most of them you'll find at other brands anyway.

It's like if Chrysler shuttered Dodge...sure I'd be upset but I would still support the company, especially if the end result means a stronger, better company.

[MRDETROITMETAL]

PONTIAC= Poor Old Numskulls Thought Id Always Continue.....NOT.

Hell ...I would BUY Pontiac !!!

WTF...If Shelby & Panoz can do it, I sure as F can too.

Performance ?...there it goes !!!!

[SAmadei]

So if you consider the Camaro "bland" what the hell do you consider aggressive? A G6 with bugs bunny teeth and a big wing? I can't think of many cars...nothing under 50k that are anywhere near as aggressive, and certainly nothing Pontiac has to offer.

Uh, the Trans Am. And the 5th gen Trans Am that could have been. The GTO (1999) that could have been. The G8 coupe that could have been. Actually, I consider the G8 to be more aggressive.

Your argument about the Cobalt brings Pontiac further into question. Ok, it's a sleeper...but it has aggressive performance the "performance" division's clone doesn't.

I can't help that GM has shot itself in the foot for a decade. Same engine is availble in the Solstice... and I can't figure out why GM wasted all the effort on the Cobalt SS when the Camaro was coming and the Cruze is the future. The Cruze SS will be as exciting to look at as grass growing, as well.

The G6 has had plenty of time, and a "MCE" to fix it's shortcomings.

I can't help that GM has shot itself in the foot for a decade. More than a MCE was needed on the G6.

Your argument seems to be based on a GM brand strategy that hasn't really existed for decades. Times have changed and Chevy can fill the performance and the everyman group at the same time. Pontiac is a joke to most people besides the G8 (which could easily be an Impala replacement) and the Solstice, which you can find over at your Saturn dealer.

After driving the G8, I think it would need serious tuning down to become a Chevy. The last "real" Impala SS was a floaty boat, not a canyon carver.

And where does anyone get the idea the G8 will automagically become a new Impala or Caprice. GM has neglected us with the W-body Impala for over a decade while giving the middle east what we pined for. I'm sure that will continue.

I think Pontiac had a lot of potential, and had a few good cars recently the upheld to it's ideal image, but the brandhas been dragged through the mud so much over teh decades that it's mostly a rebadge brand anyway...I just don't see how you wouldn't buy another GM since most of them you'll find at other brands anyway.

So the new Skyhawk (Aveo) and Skylark (Cobalt) rebadges will make sense and will fill the old BPG showrooms with customers? Again, I'm not trying to be negative towards Buick, but its a bunch of rebadges, as well.

I agree the only Pontiacs worth saving are the G8 and Solstice (at this point), but killing the brand still pisses off the faithful, and THE G8 IS NOT OFFERED AT ANY OTHER GMNA BRAND. Plus the Solstice would be offered only as a Pontiac (since Saturn is leaving)... again, I don't buy this, Sky gets restyled into a Chevy... where is the money for that?

Killing Pontiac achieves nothing positive. There are no factories to close. No dealers to close. Barely any brand overhead, since it is part of BPG. All it does is signs the future death certificates of Buick and GMC.

Is GM overpaying for arrowhead badges or split grills?!? I knew the arrowhead on the back of the Torrent looked involved, but is GM paying more than $1 for an arrowhead. That's what is saved here.

It's like if Chrysler shuttered Dodge...sure I'd be upset but I would still support the company, especially if the end result means a stronger, b

Chrysler is different. They killed their "everyman" car... the Plymouth... granted, by giving it no new product. Dodge has been somewhat successful at being both everyman and sporty. Of course, Dodge don't come close to touching Chevy's volume. And killing Dodge would make no sense since it is Chrysler that has the problems right now (i.e., no decent cars beyond the 300).

I hate to see anything happen to any of the old big 3, but I fear Chrysler/Dodge really is history... either instantly on June 1 or by prolonged disaster by Fiat. Lets look at the past "success" of European influence on US automakers... AMC-Renault. Daimler-Chrysler. GMNA puppeted by Opel. Fiat has a history of management almost as bad as the average British automaker... Fiat has had their crap together, what two years now?

You're going to be upset and supporting another company when all of Chrysler is gone... just like me. GM is gone for me.

So, GM makes three cars that _barely_ fit my needs (G8, CTS, Camaro). They are killing off the brand that produces the best one for my needs, and I'm just supposed to buy something else? Perhaps a nice Cobalt SS? We got specials on trucks! Keep my figures crossed for a GM to invest $2 billion into dumbing down the G8 into an Impala... for what? 2015?

So if GM dumps everything into the crapper and only builds Cobalts, how many people on this forum are going to just say, "OK, well at least I can still buy a Cobalt, its a suitable competitor for the 3 series. They both have four wheels, and get you from point A to point B."

I'm really done with this thread, I really can't believe that the consensus here is "Just buy a Chevy".

[Chicagoland]

"how long until Obama and his minions assassinate GMC"

Now it's 'blame Obama'. The GOP Senators want Asians to make cars in the south, since they hate the UAW. So no, John McCain and Sarah Palin would have not 'saved' them either.

What $$$ could be used to prop up all the duplicate cars and all, just to please the nerds who live in the 60's? Chevrolet is a solid brand, and the idea of B-O-P being 'better' is LONG OVER!

Edited April 25, 2009 by Chicagoland

[z28luvr01]

Guys, again, please keep the politics out of this. Several GM officials have said that the administration is asking for GM to give up NOTHING in terms of brands. This news story is GM's own doing.

[ZL-1]

So...

1990's: Pontiac is Excitement

2000's: Pontiac is car

2010's: Pontiac is dead

[Satty]

Pontiac is CORPSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[daves87rs]

"how long until Obama and his minions assassinate GMC"

Now it's 'blame Obama'. The GOP Senators want Asians to make cars in the south, since they hate the UAW. So no, John McCain and Sarah Palin would have not 'saved' them either.

What $$$ could be used to prop up all the duplicate cars and all, just to please the nerds who live in the 60's? Chevrolet is a solid brand, and the idea of B-O-P being 'better' is LONG OVER!

That's what happens when you ask the government for help...

And the government has screwed up pretty much everything for decades....not much hope there....

[Daryl Z71]

What happens to this site if GM bites the bullet?

[regfootball]

The question is how many here crying over the loss of Pontiac has bought one new in the last I will open it up to 25 years? Have you bought one?

So many complain about the loss but few have shown real support with their money.

If GM can't sell many here who think it is a crime to kill Pontiac then who would they sell them too?

I have had a new 1985 Fiero, 1990 GP, 1997 SSEI and a 2004 GTP Comp G in the last 25 years. All were good cars but the 1990. The big reason they did stand out were the rest of cars from GM for the most part was so bad. Chevy had things like the Celeberty, Olds the Ciera and Buick the Century need I say more. I still have two of the Pontiacs yet but I moved on so the end is not effecting me as much as it will some others. I did reall y did not leave Pontiac they left me when they lost the performance.

My daily driver is a 13 second 1/4 mile car that gets 30 MPG highway and can haul a 9 foot ladder inside. It wears a bow tie.

I will miss Pontiac but not as much as I would have a few years ago. I was brought home from the Hospital in a 1960 Ventura as wa smy son in the SSEI. I have lapped the indy speed way at over 100 MPH in a Pontiac and even won my class in the largest Pontiac show in the country 7 times. I have been a Pontiac club president and even had one of my Pontiac's Featured in several Pontiac magazines. I own rare prototype Pontiac parts. have driven nearly all the great Pontiacs from the past including SD cars and most years of GTO.

I guess I see it as I will always have this heritage and back ground with the older cars but the new cars have done nothing for me and I see few really collecting any other than the G8 and Solstice. I may lose future cars but at the rate they were going I do not see much coming anyway.

GM will own the name and if things are right a niche brand could always comeback if they have the right product for the time. A performance car that fits the market not their past would be ideal and could be sold at a Buick dealer later on. There is no reason they could return any past GM car line if they have the right product or a need. But like Olds is there really a need for them today....No!

Anyone else here have any show of support of a new Pontiac in the last 25 years?

had the G6 been better i think it could have held pontiacs position a little better.

i have my aztek......but that don't count LOL.

G8 was on my radar. But prob out of my budget.

CobaltSS in pontiac or new astra as a G5 would have been appealing.

oddly, i know 4 people with 07-08 grand prixs. back 10 years ago i could have named 15-20 people i knew with pontiacs.

Edited April 25, 2009 by regfootball

[Z-06]

Uh, the Trans Am. And the 5th gen Trans Am that could have been. The GTO (1999) that could have been. The G8 coupe that could have been. Actually, I consider the G8 to be more aggressive.

Could have been, but there is nothing. The reality is Pontiac is bland. Call it internal politics, or mismanagement or whatever, the truth is that Pontiac has been neutered. Let us for argument sake say that if GM wants Pontiac to exist and the only vehicles you see are G3, G5 and G6, would you buy Pontiac? Chevy on the other would get the RWD and performance cars which can be budget yet blow BMW and Infinitis off, would you not buy Chevy because it does not have a Pontiac grill and arrow on it? You make the same argument as the import humpers do when they talk about Toyota quality and not considering other (read domestic) vehicles.

I can't help that GM has shot itself in the foot for a decade. Same engine is availble in the Solstice... and I can't figure out why GM wasted all the effort on the Cobalt SS when the Camaro was coming and the Cruze is the future. The Cruze SS will be as exciting to look at as grass growing, as well.

The truth is Opel did most of the work for the Astra GTC when SS went into development. The same logic could be applied to Mazdaspeed3 too. Why did Mazda spend research money when the new Mazda3 and the Speed was round the corner. The truth is SS Turbo was long on the list of things to do on Cobalt. If it has three model years, I personally think it is a success. Go and drive one and you will see how composed and yet firebreathing the vehicle is. As for the Cruze being round the corner, it is not like GM was going to have a totally new performance version for the vehicle. The development spent on SS Turbo can certainly be used on Cruze SS if it becomes a reality.

I can't help that GM has shot itself in the foot for a decade. More than a MCE was needed on the G6.

Well it still makes G6 desirable to many.

After driving the G8, I think it would need serious tuning down to become a Chevy. The last "real" Impala SS was a floaty boat, not a canyon carver.

And where does anyone get the idea the G8 will automagically become a new Impala or Caprice. GM has neglected us with the W-body Impala for over a decade while giving the middle east what we pined for. I'm sure that will continue.

Again perceptions. Why cannot Impala be the same ride as the G8. Just because the badge changed to Chevy, why does it have to change its character? My argument is if a person calls himself a GM fan and if he gets the same vehicle in a different brand with exactly same characteristics, why will he reject it? The only answer is he is NOT a GM fan. I became a GM fan because of a Chevy, but if I get the same characteristics of a Chevy in other GM brand I will not abandon GM altogether.

So the new Skyhawk (Aveo) and Skylark (Cobalt) rebadges will make sense and will fill the old BPG showrooms with customers? Again, I'm not trying to be negative towards Buick, but its a bunch of rebadges, as well.

I agree the only Pontiacs worth saving are the G8 and Solstice (at this point), but killing the brand still pisses off the faithful, and THE G8 IS NOT OFFERED AT ANY OTHER GMNA BRAND. Plus the Solstice would be offered only as a Pontiac (since Saturn is leaving)... again, I don't buy this, Sky gets restyled into a Chevy... where is the money for that?

Killing Pontiac achieves nothing positive. There are no factories to close. No dealers to close. Barely any brand overhead, since it is part of BPG. All it does is signs the future death certificates of Buick and GMC.

Is GM overpaying for arrowhead badges or split grills?!? I knew the arrowhead on the back of the Torrent looked involved, but is GM paying more than $1 for an arrowhead. That's what is saved here.

The mistake GM made with Olds was that they did not compensate with similar products in any other lineup. They left the Olds customers high and dry. If GM is smart enough they will not do this Pontiac or any other brand they decide to kill. But the boneheads sometime do think like it. That is the drawback of being a GM fan.

Chrysler is different. They killed their "everyman" car... the Plymouth... granted, by giving it no new product. Dodge has been somewhat successful at being both everyman and sporty. Of course, Dodge don't come close to touching Chevy's volume. And killing Dodge would make no sense since it is Chrysler that has the problems right now (i.e., no decent cars beyond the 300).

I hate to see anything happen to any of the old big 3, but I fear Chrysler/Dodge really is history... either instantly on June 1 or by prolonged disaster by Fiat. Lets look at the past "success" of European influence on US automakers... AMC-Renault. Daimler-Chrysler. GMNA puppeted by Opel. Fiat has a history of management almost as bad as the average British automaker... Fiat has had their crap together, what two years now?

You're going to be upset and supporting another company when all of Chrysler is gone... just like me. GM is gone for me.

So, GM makes three cars that _barely_ fit my needs (G8, CTS, Camaro). They are killing off the brand that produces the best one for my needs, and I'm just supposed to buy something else? Perhaps a nice Cobalt SS? We got specials on trucks! Keep my figures crossed for a GM to invest $2 billion into dumbing down the G8 into an Impala... for what? 2015?

So if GM dumps everything into the crapper and only builds Cobalts, how many people on this forum are going to just say, "OK, well at least I can still buy a Cobalt, its a suitable competitor for the 3 series. They both have four wheels, and get you from point A to point B."

I'm really done with this thread, I really can't believe that the consensus here is "Just buy a Chevy".

Again, what makes you think that GM will dumb down Impala? Be positive man. The entire country has become so negative. Both the supporters and the opponents. If we feel we want to make a difference in GM let us together as GM fans and critics write something to GM which can let them know what and how we feel about GM and hope and pray for the best. And why not buy a Chevy if it offers performance and convinience that the current Pontiac models could not? Open your eyes and be more acceptable.

[Intrepidation]

SAmadei, I was referring to the current lineup, not ever car in the past. If you want to go down that route, there's a hell of a lot more $h!boxes than performance cars we can list (we've got a thread dedicated to it).

At any rate, you guys know that GM has the power to bring the brand back as a performance niche brand (What it should be anyway) when it has...you know...money. Since Pontiac is party of BPG dealer's won't have to close because they'll still have BG. If GM saw fit when the economy got better and they had actual money and a strong company again, they could bring it back to the BG dealers.

[longtooth]

SAmadei, I was referring to the current lineup, not ever car in the past. If you want to go down that route, there's a hell of a lot more $h!boxes than performance cars we can list (we've got a thread dedicated to it).

At any rate, you guys know that GM has the power to bring the brand back as a performance niche brand (What it should be anyway) when it has...you know...money. Since Pontiac is party of BPG dealer's won't have to close because they'll still have BG. If GM saw fit when the economy got better and they had actual money and a strong company again, they could bring it back to the BG dealers.

Were that the case they'd keep the G8, perhaps the next-gen G6 (vastly improved as criticism would have it) as boutique offerings. By necessity it would require the continued importation of the G8 and the G6 would become a sourced product given the likelihood that Lake Orion assembly would ultimately close.

This would be done to keep Pontiac in the consciousness of the consumer and remaining faithful to those that have embraced the G8 in all of it's forms.

This is only what I would do.

[Intrepidation]

Were that the case they'd keep the G8, perhaps the next-gen G6 (vastly improved as criticism would have it) as boutique offerings. By necessity it would require the continued importation of the G8 and the G6 would become a sourced product given the likelihood that Lake Orion assembly would ultimately close.

This would be done to keep Pontiac in the consciousness of the consumer and remaining faithful to those that have embraced the G8 in all of it's forms.

This is only what I would do.

Yes, if it were me I would lee it G8 and Solstice only. They are the only two cars that really symbolize what Pontiac should be. When they had more money I would expand the G8 lineup to include the Ute and Sportwagon, then go from there.

[longtooth]

Yes, if it were me I would lee it G8 and Solstice only. They are the only two cars that really symbolize what Pontiac should be. When they had more money I would expand the G8 lineup to include the Ute and Sportwagon, then go from there.

Huh? I forgot Solstice.

Those two, G8 & Solstice, would suffice.

Have to find way to bring Solstice to market being produced alongside something else to make/keep it economically viable.

[Robert Hall]

Yes, if it were me I would lee it G8 and Solstice only. They are the only two cars that really symbolize what Pontiac should be. When they had more money I would expand the G8 lineup to include the Ute and Sportwagon, then go from there.

Agreed..those are the only models that are relevant. Chevy can cover the cheap FWD market.

[Daryl Z71]

Yes, if it were me I would lee it G8 and Solstice only. They are the only two cars that really symbolize what Pontiac should be. When they had more money I would expand the G8 lineup to include the Ute and Sportwagon, then go from there.

That seems like a really good idea, but why can't GM think of and do something like that instead of puss out alltogether!

[ZL-1]

Pontiac is CORPSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A bit morbid, but that made me

[Robert Hall]

Saw some Pontiac Excitement!!! today--a brand new, first ever G3 in bright yellow, a white '78 Phoenix 2dr, a gold '77-78 plain Firebird in decent shape (Jim Rockford?) and a goregous pale yellow '67 Catalina ht.

Pontiac was car.

Edited April 25, 2009 by moltar

[Intrepidation]

Well the last 2 were cars, the first two were pieces of crap.

[FAPTurbo]

WE BUILD DISAPPOINTMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SAmadei]

a gold '77-78 plain Firebird in decent shape (Jim Rockford?) and a goregous pale yellow '67 Catalina ht.

Rockford, at least during the prime years were 1975s +/- 1.

I want to say the yellow is Sunburst Yellow, but a minority of brain cells are arguing that is was something else... Its the same color as my '68 Catalina Convertible. With the black top, it is truely a "banana boat".

[A Horse With No Name]

Pardon my language, but aside from jobs, the economy, and all that, what is really left of GM for me to care about?

Everything that has been any good lately has been killed early or cancelled entirely.

I suppose that I no longer care what happens to GM, and even though I still root for Chrysler, if they don't do something "magic" I'll no longer care for them either.

It's a sad, sad day.

+1

The rumors of VW as the worlds number one automaker may alas not be a cool-aide dream after all.

The Camaro will probably be dead before I can get one...a sad day in mudville indeed.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Saw some Pontiac Excitement!!! today--a brand new, first ever G3 in bright yellow, a white '78 Phoenix 2dr, a gold '77-78 plain Firebird in decent shape (Jim Rockford?) and a goregous pale yellow '67 Catalina ht.

Pontiac was car.

There was NO better looking car in the 1960's, IMHO.

It's been 45 years since some of these cars were produced and I still have the hair stand up on my arms when I see one.

Which is why I get depressed...even with the G8, the good days of Pontiac are gone forever.

I really wish I could have had a 69-77 Grand Prix new off of the showroom floor. That would be wunderful!

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Rockford, at least during the prime years were 1975s +/- 1.

I want to say the yellow is Sunburst Yellow, but a minority of brain cells are arguing that is was something else... Its the same color as my '68 Catalina Convertible. With the black top, it is truely a "banana boat".

I think they destroyed more F-body cars with Rockford than they did with Smokey and the Bandit. Seems to me like I remember one going off of a cliff IIRC.

Also remember Eric Estrada had an early 70's Firebird in a similar color destroyed in an episode of "CHIPS"

IIRC they put the Forks of all all-terrain forklift through it, amoung other things.

Chris

[Robert Hall]

I think they destroyed more F-body cars with Rockford than they did with Smokey and the Bandit. Seems to me like I remember one going off of a cliff IIRC.

Also remember Eric Estrada had an early 70's Firebird in a similar color destroyed in an episode of "CHIPS"

IIRC they put the Forks of all all-terrain forklift through it, amoung other things.

Chris

I remember Ponch's Firebird blowing up in an episode also. IIRC, Ponch's car had a Formula hood w/ a T/A hood scoop added. I haven't seen ChiPs in 25 years, probably..it and Rockford Files were some of my favorite shows of childhood.

A couple years ago, I got back into Rockford Files and have been collecting the seasons on DVD...I enjoy the '70s vintage So Cal scenery, clothes, cars, hair styles..

[Chevy Nick]

Anyone else here have any show of support of a new Pontiac in the last 25 years?

I love my '06 GTO, great car.

[A Horse With No Name]

Take that 06 GTO to a dragstrip or an autocross and you'll love it even more.

Great car!

Chris