[Updated] Pontiac Officially Dead in 2010 as of 04/27/2009

[CaddyXLR-V]

Not only that, but I think people are biased against Pontiac for some reason. Maybe it was their tagline. If they didn't say, We Build Excitement, their image wouldn't have taken as much of a hit for not building excitement.

People only remember the bad. But tell me this. What cars in 1997 outperformed the Grand Prix GTP? Not the Maxima or Altima, not the Accord, Camry, no Subarus, No Dodges. The Ford SHO might be the only car in the same class, outside of luxury makes. What cars outperformed the Trans Am in 2002? The 05-06 GTO? The list of cars that outperformed them are very short. But because of bias, all that is remembered is the Aztek.

[FloydHendershot]

Note the bolded text in this quote.

You'll just have to accept that some of us simply don't buy that thinking - not for a minute.

And no, the remaining brands cannot fill Pontiac's shoes.

Perhaps an exaggeration on my part but Pontiac could not fill Pontiacs shoes. The G8's and GTO's are fine automobiles, no question, but the true Pontiacs are long gone and not coming back. The news does not make me happy but the lineup they called Pontiac did not either. The retirement of the Grand Prix was all that remained of the marque. It looked a lot like Plymouth as they writhed with those last desperate throes.

Looking to the future I believe this decision will better allow the parent company to ensure better cars that will appeal to a wider variety of people with a wider cariety of needs and tastes.

Buick should gain the most as they will in all likelihood have a better lineup that will appeal to younger more affluent buyers.

I do not have the aba of Enclave owners but it is younger than your typical Buick buyer. With that sort of interest in the brand I would expect good things in the showrooms.

Maybe Chevy will step up their game with an Impala worthy of the name.

[Camino LS6]

Perhaps an exaggeration on my part but Pontiac could not fill Pontiacs shoes. The G8's and GTO's are fine automobiles, no question, but the true Pontiacs are long gone and not coming back. The news does not make me happy but the lineup they called Pontiac did not either. The retirement of the Grand Prix was all that remained of the marque. It looked a lot like Plymouth as they writhed with last desperate throes.

Looking to the future I believe this decision will better allow the parent company to ensure better cars that will appeal to a wider variety of people with a wider cariety of needs and tastes.

Buick should gain the most as they will in all likelihood have a better lineup that will appeal to younger more affluent buyers.

I do not have the aba of Enclave owners but it is younger than your typical Buick buyer. With that sort of interest in the brand I would expect good things in the showrooms.

Maybe Chevy will step up their game now too. Maybe an Impala worthy of the name.

No.

I don't think so.

Pontiac was spared the indignity of being reduced to a shabby end like Plymouth was.

I have none of your optimism that any good will come from this whatsoever.

I see it as nothing but loss and squandered opportunity.

When we lose a Plymouth, or an Oldsmobile... or a Pontiac, we lose another thread of our national fabric. Another small bit of the glue that has long given us an identity as Americans passes away.

What is happening to our auto industry, though of great magnitude, is only a sliver of the general fading of what could be called American.

We witness the decline right in front of us, and yet fail to really see it.

I will always miss Pontiac, but I will miss knowing what it means to be an American even more.

We are fast becoming a province of some global hegemony that none of us truly understand.

I simply find that to be sad

[SAmadei]

No.

I don't think so.

Pontiac was spared the indignity of being reduced to a shabby end like Plymouth was.

I have none of your optimism that any good will come from this whatsoever.

I see it as nothing but loss and squandered opportunity.

When we lose a Plymouth, or an Oldsmobile... or a Pontiac, we lose another thread of our national fabric. Another small bit of the glue that has long given us an identity as Americans passes away.

What is happening to our auto industry, though of great magnitude, is only a sliver of the general fading of what could be called American.

We witness the decline right in front of us, and yet fail to really see it.

I will always miss Pontiac, but I will miss knowing what it means to be an American even more.

We are fast becoming a province of some global hegemony that none of us truly understand.

I simply find that to be sad

+1 I couldn't have put it better.

[hyperv6]

No.

I don't think so.

Pontiac was spared the indignity of being reduced to a shabby end like Plymouth was.

I have none of your optimism that any good will come from this whatsoever.

I see it as nothing but loss and squandered opportunity.

When we lose a Plymouth, or an Oldsmobile... or a Pontiac, we lose another thread of our national fabric. Another small bit of the glue that has long given us an identity as Americans passes away.

What is happening to our auto industry, though of great magnitude, is only a sliver of the general fading of what could be called American.

We witness the decline right in front of us, and yet fail to really see it.

I will always miss Pontiac, but I will miss knowing what it means to be an American even more.

We are fast becoming a province of some global hegemony that none of us truly understand.

I simply find that to be sad

I agree with the sad but Pontiac except for two models has come to a shabby end.

The cars like the G3-5-6 and Vibe are not what I call performance cars. Also if you count the minivans and SUV's Pontiac should have never had

If it were not for the G8 and Solstice what are we really losing?

By the way Camino might want to push for the return of the G8 ST as an El Camino. Lets face it the end of Pontiac was already in the cards when the G8 ST was pulled. Offered as a Chevy this vehicle would take little to bring in and make a profit at low volumes.

The ST is done and the Chevy front end would bolt right on! The big problem is GM will want to limit models. They are working to remove them so adding may prove to be difficult.

It is just a wild though and I admit a long shot at best on the ST but still may have a very slim chance.

Edited May 1, 2009 by hyperv6

[CaddyXLR-V]

I agree with the sad but Pontiac is except for two models has come to a shabby end.

The cars like the G3-5-6 and Vibe are not what I call performance cars. Also if you count the minivans and SUV's Pontiac should have never had

If it were not for the G8 and Solstice what are we really losing?

By the way Camaino might want to push for the return of the G8 ST as an El Camino. Lets face it the end of Pontiac was already in the cards when the G8 ST was pulled. Offered as a Chevy this vehicle would take little to bring in and make a profit at low volumes.

In a way the loss of Pontiac could be a blessing to some models. I admit a long shot at best on the ST but still a chance.

Outside the Corvette, and recently introduced Camaro and Malibu, we wouldn't be losing much IMO if Chevy went away either. But that doesn't mean Chevy should be killed. Name one brand besides luxury makes that has more than 2 performance cars?

Miata and RX8

370Z and whatever they call the Skyline here

Camaro and Corvette

Mustang and SHO

Charger and Viper and now Challenger- so Dodge is the only brand with more than 2. They still have sold plenty of crap over the years, but that isn't brought up evertime someone mentions the Challenger.

Why is Pontiac the only brand that gets a bad rep for ONLY having 2 performance cars, and should have 3 if the GTO never went away?

Edited May 1, 2009 by CaddyXLR-V

[Camino LS6]

I agree with the sad but Pontiac except for two models has come to a shabby end.

The cars like the G3-5-6 and Vibe are not what I call performance cars. Also if you count the minivans and SUV's Pontiac should have never had

If it were not for the G8 and Solstice what are we really losing?

By the way Camino might want to push for the return of the G8 ST as an El Camino. Lets face it the end of Pontiac was already in the cards when the G8 ST was pulled. Offered as a Chevy this vehicle would take little to bring in and make a profit at low volumes.

The ST is done and the Chevy front end would bolt right on! The big problem is GM will want to limit models. They are working to remove them so adding may prove to be difficult.

It is just a wild though and I admit a long shot at best on the ST but still may have a very slim chance.

I'm done pushing for such things.

I've moved to "show me" mode.

[FloydHendershot]

Naturally, you are entitled to your opinions but do not agree with the extent of those implications.

Industries are global and The Dutch will make wooden shoes and the Belgians will still make chocolate.

The loss of a nameplate or American company happens everyday, dead car companies?Cord, Deusenberg, Auburn Checker, Essex DeSoto, Hudson, Kaiser, LaSalle, Nash, Packard, Rambler, Stanley, Studebaker, Tucker, Plymouth, Olds all gone yet America still trudges on. The loss of LaSalle probably hurt just as much but here we are today. Six Flags, blockbuster, and Kispy Kreme might be going, too.

This is the world we live in now and losing Pontiac is not the end of America any more than Studebaker was a sign of the end.

The loss of Chrysler to Daimler was a wet cod fish across the face of the American auto industry.

I do agree Pontiac was squandered but there is a genuine opportunity with the proper support and these companies will be relevant and viable and profitable. Like it or not behaviour and attitudes are what will drive the company past this rough patch. Youd be surprised. Customers are only ideas and the creative difference Pontiac offered was a liability in this market. Performance doesn't need a brand.

it is a sad day for the American automotive industry and would leave it at that. At the most I would say a little Americana has left us and for that I am saddened and thus closes one chapter in a book with many more before it and many many more ahead.

Edited May 1, 2009 by FloydHendershot

[gm4life]

I'm done pushing for such things.

I've moved to "show me" mode.

Well Camino you might get your wish, with a GMC badge on it. Nothing would make me happier and no one would deserve it more. I would also like to see the G8 come over to the Chevy stable and be sold to the public and law enforcement!

Autoblog G8 ST Might Be Badged as a GMC

Edited May 1, 2009 by gm4life

[Camino LS6]

Naturally, you are entitled to your opinions but do not agree with the extent of those implications.

Industries are global and The Dutch will make wooden shoes and the Belgians will still make chocolate.

The loss of a nameplate or American company happens everyday, dead car companies?Cord, Deusenberg, Auburn Checker, Essex DeSoto, Hudson, Kaiser, LaSalle, Nash, Packard, Rambler, Stanley, Studebaker, Tucker, Plymouth, Olds all gone yet America still trudges on. The loss of LaSalle probably hurt just as much but here we are today. Six Flags, blockbuster, and Kispy Kreme might be going, too.

This is the world we live in now and losing Pontiac is not the end of America any more than Studebaker was a sign of the end.

The loss of Chrysler to Daimler was a wet cod fish across the face of the American auto industry.

I do agree Pontiac was squandered but there is a genuine opportunity with the proper support and these companies will be relevant and viable and profitable. Like it or not behaviour and attitudes are what will drive the company past this rough patch. Youd be surprised. Customers are only ideas and the creative difference Pontiac offered was a liability in this market. Performance doesn't need a brand.

it is a sad day for the American automotive industry and would leave it at that. At the most I would say a little Americana has left us and for that I am saddened and thus closes one chapter in a book with many more before it and many many more ahead.

I think maybe you should read what I wrote a bit more carefully. I didn't say what you seem to think I said.

[ShadowDog]

I think you have missed a significant slice of the story if this is your complete impression.

Certainly not my complete impression; however, only based upon the regions across western Canada from B.C. to Ontario. Of the owners I spoke with, I would guess less than half of them bought Pontiac for what we'd hope they represented. Their vehicles were on the other side of the coin when it came to performance image and offered the same as their sister-counterparts from Chevrolet. Of those buying within the performance category, the majority purchased their cars used in order to heavily modify them. Fieros and W-Body Grand Prixs made up the mix, with most of these buyers shunning the J-body and Grand Ams as being too soft and simple, covered in sculpted cladding to be their only performance image traits. These guys were all across North America, creating tuner cars the way they'd hoped GM would produce them. I was even hoping to see a true production vehicle come from the original Grand Am SC/T concept. As true and high reaching that performance car would have been, I was merely shocked to finally see a performance V6 Pontiac with a manual transmission!!! That alone was something missing from Pontiac, and practically every other GM division for nearly a decade! There wasn't anything available as a complete package for enthusiasts to do anything more than 'settle' with. Not too many of these enthusiasts were highly impressed with the GXP styling or the paddle shifting gimmick when it was introduced. These guys focused on a particular era that had more to do with what was available to them at that time, not what once was, or would apparently never be. That's where the majority of my impression comes from.

[Camino LS6]

Canada is certainly a different animal when it comes to Pontiac, that's certain.

Most of the cars you mentioned were invisible to me, but there was always something from Pontiac that exceeded that offered by Chevy. That was the main point I was making.

[FloydHendershot]

I think maybe you should read what I wrote a bit more carefully. I didn't say what you seem to think I said.

I got it the first time but contend the American fabric consists of many fibers and multiple fabrics and is defined by more than its products and industries. It is almost insulting to Americans to equate it with a greater American decline which I don't necessarily believe to be the case.

We live in a global economy and there is no proof of other countries losing their identities. If Lois Chevrolet hadn't thought to come to America or if The Dodge family stayed in England or Henry Ford's family never left Ireland America would not be what it is because of people like that made tough decisions and opted to become something better they believed could not be achieved anywhere else.

[Camino LS6]

I got it the first time but contend the American fabric consists of many fibers and multiple fabrics and is defined by more than its products and industries. It is almost insulting to Americans to equate it with a greater American decline which I don't necessarily believe to be the case.

We live in a global economy and there is no proof of other countries losing their identities. If Lois Chevrolet hadn't thought to come to America or if The Dodge family stayed in England or Henry Ford's family never left Ireland America would not be what it is because of people like that made tough decisions and opted to become something better they believed could not be achieved anywhere else.

Well, you still missed the important part I was hoping you would go back and find. I called the brands a thread in the national fabric and the industry a sliver of what it means to be American.

You missed that.

This country is different than any other for the very reasons you mention, and we need to be different to continue to exist in a meaningful way. Holding that type of national identity together is an order of magnitude more difficult than it is for the rest of the world because of our diversity.

The decline is quite real here in the world's biggest debtor nation, and threatens to hasten if we can't find that pride and loyalty we once had.

[FloydHendershot]

Well, you still missed the important part I was hoping you would go back and find. I called the brands a thread in the national fabric and the industry a sliver of what it means to be American.

You missed that.

This country is different than any other for the very reasons you mention, and we need to be different to continue to exist in a meaningful way. Holding that type of national identity together is an order of magnitude more difficult than it is for the rest of the world because of our diversity.

The decline is quite real here in the world's biggest debtor nation, and threatens to hasten if we can't find that pride and loyalty we once had.

I don't want to quibble but I read how you phrased it. My reply acknowledges that and will go further to say one of the many can be unraveled without equating it to a grander conclusion. It will maintain it's integrity.

America has been a debtor nation for more than a century. It is how America has been built and does not have to be a bad thing. Debt is profitable and when used wisely allows for a productive means to reinvest.

The national identity is always in flux but the image, ideal and principle does not diminish.

[wildcat]

. . . If Lois Chevrolet . . .

You mean he was a she? No, you mean Louis Chevrolet.

[FloydHendershot]

You mean he was a she? No, you mean Louis Chevrolet.

That was before the operation, but you make an excellent point.

[cletus8269]

The loss of a nameplate or American company happens everyday, dead car companies?Cord, Deusenberg, Auburn Checker, Essex DeSoto, Hudson, Kaiser, LaSalle, Nash, Packard, Rambler, Stanley, Studebaker, Tucker, Plymouth, Olds all gone yet America still trudges on. The loss of LaSalle probably hurt just as much but here we are today.

you forgot marmon.. and a few more. i was shocked to see the length of that list.

[Camino LS6]

I don't want to quibble but I read how you phrased it. My reply acknowledges that and will go further to say one of the many can be unraveled without equating it to a grander conclusion. It will maintain it's integrity.

America has been a debtor nation for more than a century. It is how America has been built and does not have to be a bad thing. Debt is profitable and when used wisely allows for a productive means to reinvest.

The national identity is always in flux but the image, ideal and principle does not diminish.

OK, we can leave this one behind. I would just say that I strenuously disagree with your position.

[Chicagoland]

"The loss of LaSalle probably hurt just as much but here we are today."

There were others, Olds' companion brand, Viking and Buick's Marquette went away at same time. Pontiac was a companion to Oakland. Are these missed that badly?

Edited May 5, 2009 by Chicagoland