[Updated] Pontiac Officially Dead in 2010 as of 04/27/2009

[haypops]

Death of Pontiac while sad is not unexpected. It would be very possible for the G8 to be moved over to Buick so that it becomes the New Grand Natioanl. just a thought.

It would be ironic if the New Independent/Boutique Saturn ended up importing the G8 for sale as their halo car. If they end up selling a bunch of Fiats or Renaults as imagined by some, then they would have the CAFE credits to pull it off where others could not.

[deftonesfan867]

Kelsey just texted me from class saying I can get a G8. She better not be messing around....

[Lamar]

Kelsey just texted me from class saying I can get a G8. She better not be messing around....

CALL HER ON IT!!!

DO IT!!!!!!!

[deftonesfan867]

CALL HER ON IT!!!

DO IT!!!!!!!

She said yes really, and my job has already told me that once I have my own vehicle they'll put me on full time. So here's hoping this summer I can pick one up.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Well you all know my thoughts on this, however GM needs to move swiftly to fill the void left by Pontiac with new fresh Buick and GMC products that will support the current Buick, GMC dealerships. If GM doesn't, as FOG said, it may only be Chevy and Cadillac left standing when all is said and done ...

[deftonesfan867]

Well you all know my thoughts on this, however GM needs to move swiftly to fill the void left by Pontiac with new fresh Buick and GMC products that will support the current Buick, GMC dealerships. If GM doesn't, as FOG said, it may only be Chevy and Cadillac left standing when all is said and done ...

Tell me where in South Jersey....err I mean Delaware you live so when I get a G8 I'll do be doing burn out's in front of your house.........

[Oracle of Delphi]

Tell me where in South Jersey....err I mean Delaware you live so when I get a G8 I'll do be doing burn out's in front of your house.........

Better hurry, I leave for Germany soon ... I hope you get it, I look forward to the pics ...

[Daryl Z71]

Sad but true that they will probably axe these product when a rebadge on the G8 could very easily bring excitement to the Buick label and give people that step up from a FWD Monte Carlo to a RWD Grand National auto.

Too bad the auto Zars are not listening more to the public as I think the public is all for saving American companies and there are plenty of good Ideas out there for them to use.

Better to rebadge it then just throw it to the dogs when they have put all that time and money into developing it.

[daves87rs]

I understand this is an emotional issue, but I ask everyone here to put this into some perspective.

The MSM keeps toying with the news of an economic recovery. "Green shoots" they call them.

They are lying or dumb or both.

Look at Pontiac's closure with these other news stories in mind:

New residential homes sales showed a 30% y/y decline and a 75% drop in sales from the peak.

US manufacturing forgot to take part in the rally as durable output fell 0.8% in March. New 1st quarter orders were down 27% y/y.

The Jobless rate in CA is 11%, NY is 8%, FL is 9.8%, NV is 10.2%, OR is 12.1%, NC is 10.9%, Il is 9.1%, SC is 11.4%...look at the trend line. Which way is the momentum pushing?

Buried in all of the other noise.... mortgage default for prime loans in California hit a record. California is such a trend setter.

Let all of that sink in for a moment...... and then read this:

(source link)

Pontiac closing is small potatoes for what's to come.

- Auditors report that nearly one-quarter of publicly traded companies may not live out the year.

Agreed.

After my research, you guys might want to wait for a new car...

[Intrepidation]

I only wish I had the money to pick up a G8 before they no longer exist.

[deftonesfan867]

I only wish I had the money to pick up a G8 before they no longer exist.

If I end up getting one I'll come visit ya and you can drive it for a bit.

[Intrepidation]

I'm holding you to that offer.

[aaaantoine]

Another one bites the dust, as they say.

I'm actually driving a 2005 Grand Prix these days. I wasn't particularly looking for one, but it was still pretty new and available at a good price when I bought it.

Unlike Oldsmobile, I don't have any nostalgic attachment to Pontiac. But I sure as hell will miss the Solstice.

[buyacargetacheck]

There's only room for either Cadillac or Buick at this point. Both brands are essentially 2 or 3 vehicle brands now, and GM doesn't have the money to have Cadillac do battle with the Germans internationally. 2 or 3 vehicle brands just won't be able to cut through the media din. The future is China and the Chinese apparently like traditional American car values (ride over handling). As crazy as this sounds, GM should use bankruptcy to take the very best Buick dealers and the very best Cadillac dealers and make them all Buick dealers with an 8 or 9 near-luxury vehicle lineup (300K+ sales). It's more believable to make Buicks from Chevys than Cadillacs with Chevys. That's what GM will have to do.

LaCrosse (EpII)

Buick "SRX" (Theta)

Enclave (Lambda)

Buick "CTS" (based off Camaro)

Buick Park Avenue (based off Camaro)

Buick Riviera "CTS Coupe" (based off Camaro)

Buick "Escalade" (GMT 900)

Buick "Converj"

All out advertising effort with Buick promoting its comfort, styling and international appeal. Ditch GMC and polish the Chevy Truck brands even if that means picking up 1/4 to 1/3 of former GMC buyers. Truck sales are not the future and don't require two brands.

Well you all know my thoughts on this, however GM needs to move swiftly to fill the void left by Pontiac with new fresh Buick and GMC products that will support the current Buick, GMC dealerships. If GM doesn't, as FOG said, it may only be Chevy and Cadillac left standing when all is said and done ...

[Intrepidation]

Well I'm too young to have lived through the glory days of Pontiac, so while I love the classics I don't really attach them to the Pontiac I grew up with, which was Sunfires and Grand Ams. Only the G8 strikes a cord with me and calls out to me, and it's the only one I'll really miss.

Hopefully I can pick one up used some day, since I'm sure I won't have teh cash to buy one before Pontiac no longer exists.

[thedriver]

To put a slightly different face on this, I work at a smallish Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealer. If we are cut down to two brands, and GM wants to eliminate 3000 dealerships, how much longer does anyone think I will have a job?

[Drew Dowdell]

If GM can fill in the hole left by Pontiac with new GMCs and Buicks, you'll be fine. You're getting a new GMC Terrain, Buick Lacrosse, and likely a new Buick Regal.

not a bad start.

If GM were to bring over the Chinese Park Ave, Buick would suddenly have a better large sedan than Cadillac.

[Intrepidation]

Don't forget new LaCrosse.

[trinacriabob]

I'm actually driving a 2005 Grand Prix these days. I wasn't particularly looking for one, but it was still pretty new and available at a good price when I bought it.

Unlike Oldsmobile, I don't have any nostalgic attachment to Pontiac. But I sure as hell will miss the Solstice.

Nice to hear you're driving a GP. They have turned out to be reliable and the Series III 3800 is a good powerplant.

Again, my 2 favorite automotive brands in one decade - Olds in 2000 and Pontiac in 2009. Very sad. I was more saddened by the Oldsmobile announcement since I had owned 2 Cutlass Supremes and was in love with the Intrigue, thinking it would be my next car. However, I am also saddened by Pontiac as I have been pawing their windows and sitting in them at dealerships since I was a teenager...and renting them since I graduated from college.

Since I don't plan to buy a car for a while, I'm taking a "wait and see" attitude and feel kind of ambivalent to GM at this point. Nothing in their slate of offerings enthuses me, though I plan on remaining loyal.

[Camino LS6]

What we are looking at here is a slow motion bankruptcy - the agony will be dragged out as long as possible, but nothing will be left at the end.

[BuddyP]

Kelsey just texted me from class saying I can get a G8. She better not be messing around....

Drove a red G8 GT Friday night. Like it more than the 3.6 G8 I drove last year.

[Robert Hall]

I assume Pontiac is dead also for Canada and Mexico (Pontiac's other markets)? So far, what I've seen says US.

[SAmadei]

I assume Pontiac is dead also for Canada and Mexico (Pontiac's other markets)? So far, what I've seen says US.

Yeah, I wonder how that works. Do I have to start buying Canadian Ponchos?

[Chicagoland]

"Anyone want to take bets as to how long Buick lasts or how long until Obama and his minions assassinate GMC?"

As if the GOP was going to 'save GM'? Last I heard, they said 'foreign plants have lower cost labor and can pick up the slack' along with saying to the UAW and all of MI.

Point a finger at the Tubes and GM retired managers, they F'ed up badly. Easy to blame media and govt, but the state of denial that 'imports are a fad' is what killed them.

[A Horse With No Name]

Car is dead (apparently)

Whatever...

I'm over it... I've watched GM f@#k everything up my entire life... Looks like the "new GM" will be no different.

Anyone want to take bets as to how long Buick lasts or how long until Obama and his minions assassinate GMC?

What are you talking about? The Chinese will buy Buick, and it will be around another 150 years.

Our inability to deal with our energy issues ( the ones we should have started dealing with in 73 or 74) will kill GMC.

Obama doesn't have to do anything but talk about what a messiah Gethner is.

GM's General inability to manage itself should see it gone by 2022 at the latest.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Obama has been in office like 100 days. I blame the lame cars GM built for the last 20 years, the lack of government protection of our vital national industries, the lack of a national healthcare system that has bankrupted American corporations and saddled them with huge healthcare costs but mostly I blame all the people who urged GM to stay true to some stupid 60's big muscle car past that was more fantasy than reality.

+1

Chris

[mustang84]

I took a small loss and dumped my GM stock today. I have no desire to hold it any longer.

At least I have Ford to keep me sane right now.

[daves87rs]

I took a small loss and dumped my GM stock today. I have no desire to hold it any longer.

At least I have Ford to keep me sane right now.

I have a feeling that more of that will happen this week...

[SAmadei]

So, after thinking... now that Kappa is dead... is the Wilmington, Del plant dead, too? What happened to the potential plan to merge Kappa and Corvette production? Does Bowling Green die next? Is the Corvette on its deathbed due to the inability to spread out the manufacturing costs?

This being the tip of the iceberg, because it seems to me that the massive cutting of products leaves the rest at underutilized factories... and then GM has big retooling, reshuffling and labor issues.

[Robert Hall]

So, after thinking... now that Kappa is dead... is the Wilmington, Del plant dead, too?

Probably..they said more plant closings were coming...

[daves87rs]

So, after thinking... now that Kappa is dead... is the Wilmington, Del plant dead, too? What happened to the potential plan to merge Kappa and Corvette production? Does Bowling Green die next? Is the Corvette on its deathbed due to the inability to spread out the manufacturing costs?

This being the tip of the iceberg, because it seems to me that the massive cutting of products leaves the rest at underutilized factories... and then GM has big retooling, reshuffling and labor issues.

[K.C.]

I am truly saddened by this news, although I kind of expected it. I will save my GXP as a collector car now in honor of Pontiac. I am just glad I got the last good Pontiac ever made.

Now, I think Kappa should go to Chevy, and a redesigned G8 would be a great Lucerne replacement. It'll never happen though.

[Blake Noble]

I'm proud to own one of the last of the "great ones."

GM will never sell me a new car now, no way, no how.

[Shantanu]

.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Oldsmoboi
Removed blatant partisan politics

[Shantanu]

When did this board get so sensitive? It's hard to comment on an issue like this without mentioning politics, because it is nothing but politics

[Drew Dowdell]

When did this board get so sensitive? It's hard to comment on an issue like this without mentioning politics, because it is nothing but politics

Your post was way out of line into tinfoil hat territory. If you have an issue with it, take it up with me over PM.

[FloydHendershot]

I'm proud to own one of the last of the "great ones."

GM will never sell me a new car now, no way, no how.

So then the cycle repeats? Isn't this what they've been up against? Pontiac is gone but would venture a guess not a personal affront to you.

It is petty in my estimation to make such a declaration.

The chap with the name Camino iterated a similar sentiment. Camino. That was a Chevrolet last I heard. I find it overwhelmingly unbelievable to get so bent out of shape knowing this is about becoming able to provide what we as fans want.

If Chevy brought over a Ute for instance would you not be interested? If the Caprice came back would you cut your nose off just to spite your face?

Time will tell and hastiness and absolutes will only serve you to look foolish in the end no matter the outcome of this $h!storm. Where was Pontiac headed and how can those shoes not be filled by the remaining core brands? That is the question.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I will miss the Pontiacs of the 60's and 70's ... Good bye Pontiac I knew ye well, better than you knew yourself ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/29307802#29307802

Edited April 29, 2009 by Pontiac Custom-S

[A Horse With No Name]

I still can't believe Pontiac is gone.

Chris

[Justin Bimmer]

What we are looking at here is a slow motion bankruptcy - the agony will be dragged out as long as possible, but nothing will be left at the end.

GM has been in a slow motion towards bankruptcy since the late 70s when DeLorean wrote his book bashing the way management operated.

Robert Stempel knew how many plants he needed to close. He knew how many jobs needed to be eliminated. Yes, it would have cost a lot of money back then, but at least they had CASH on hand.

Edited April 29, 2009 by CadillacKing3

[SAmadei]

I still can't believe Pontiac is gone.

The dealers still don't seem to know. I was, once again, trying to find a dealer who will ship in a G8 GXP and I asked them their thoughts on the demise of Pontiac and they denied it, even as I pointed out the press conference.

[Daryl Z71]

The dealers still don't seem to know. I was, once again, trying to find a dealer who will ship in a G8 GXP and I asked them their thoughts on the demise of Pontiac and they denied it, even as I pointed out the press conference.

LMAO! sounds like a typical GM dealer. Think they know everything.

[wildcat]

For all of the people who keep asking why Buick survived and Pontiac didn't, here are the facts said in yet another way...

Fritz Henderson talked with Automotive News Editor-in-Chief Keith Crain, Editorial Director Peter Brown and News Editor Dave Guilford on April 3 in Detroit. Henderson said, "But in the end, if I remember chart correctly, from '08, Saturn was about 100,000 retail cars, after you pulled out fleet and after you pull out employee sales. And, Pontiac was similar actually."

And Todd Lassa of Motor Trend offered the following statements by Mr. Henderson in a story posted April 27. "Henderson said Pontiac will be the last of GM's North American brands to be cut . . . 'I, like you, read lots of press about Buick and GMC ... it's disconcerting to me, because it doesn't make business sense, actually,' Henderson said. He reiterated that the two brands are 'highly profitable.'"

[Camino LS6]

So then the cycle repeats? Isn't this what they've been up against? Pontiac is gone but would venture a guess not a personal affront to you.

It is petty in my estimation to make such a declaration.

The chap with the name Camino iterated a similar sentiment. Camino. That was a Chevrolet last I heard. I find it overwhelmingly unbelievable to get so bent out of shape knowing this is about becoming able to provide what we as fans want.

If Chevy brought over a Ute for instance would you not be interested? If the Caprice came back would you cut your nose off just to spite your face?

Time will tell and hastiness and absolutes will only serve you to look foolish in the end no matter the outcome of this $h!storm. Where was Pontiac headed and how can those shoes not be filled by the remaining core brands? That is the question.

Note the bolded text in this quote.

You'll just have to accept that some of us simply don't buy that thinking - not for a minute.

And no, the remaining brands cannot fill Pontiac's shoes.

[Chicagoland]

Shows how some fall hard for GM's sales pitches and brand psychology. But the rest of the real world knows better and sees through the smoke and mirrors.

Pontiac has not made its own motors since 1981, and even then they were the lame 301. Chevrolet had 50% of GM's sales in the 60's, and Pontiac used common parts with GM brands back then too. So, if not for Chevy, there would be no Pontiac.

[balthazar]

>>"...in the 60's, and Pontiac used common parts with GM brands back then too. So, if not for Chevy, there would be no Pontiac."<<

NOTHING like modern times, my friend. Completely different sheetmetal, different interiors, different engines, different transmissions & rears (early '60s), different suspensions, different brakes, ...tap out when you've read enough.

Park a '64 Impala & '64 Bonneville next to each other- they share glass, alternators, light bulbs, .... ... lock cylinders, door hinges ...... ummm......

Carbs were different, radiators were different, heater cores were different, steering columns, seat frames... again, tap out when you're done.

It would be just as easy and just as incorrect to say 'there'd be no Chevy if it weren't for Pontiac', esp since Pontiac was created to gain economies of scale for Chevy.

Such is the Age of Cast Dispersions we're in, I've actually read contentions that the classic 'Wide Track' was marketing spin, not reality.

I know Yesterday, and Today is no Yesterday.

Edited May 1, 2009 by balthazar

[Camino LS6]

And Chicagoland knows neither.

[ShadowDog]

I still can't believe Pontiac is gone.

Chris

I'm surprised by this thinking. Some can't believe it, while others can't understand why they lasted this long after the 70s and early 80s. As I see it, Pontiac was clinging to their successful times and not providing themselves with enough forward-thinking to attract enough new consumers. Innovations seemed to have tapered off at the same time things like HUD and supercharged GTPs came out. From there, IMHO, the only thing left was image. I'm not sure how anything can survive with this alone; especially when its been watered down by blatant rebadge non-engineering.

It is quite sad, truly. There was enough of a legacy to work with after dramatic changes could have been made; perhaps only to have been executed in better times. The sub-35 age group I have talked to about Pontiac have only the present and the past (up to the early 80s) to speak about. They have nothing overwhelmingly positive to say about the products Pontiac has offered during those times; however, all of the people I speak with over the age of 35 have a connection in some way that merely refer to the 60s and 70s as the glory years. The leapfrog in years between then and now is WAY to long to provide enough consumers with a solid impression of the division's image and direction. Some of these people were in the sit-and-wait mode for Pontiac to produce anything that would take them back to the glory days. I say, these people would have been better off moving to Cuba to enjoy the good-ol' chrome of old Pontiac... despite the lack of muscle cars, I suppose.

Pontiac clearly lost their way and GM was reading their map upside down.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I'm surprised by this thinking. Some can't believe it, while others can't understand why they lasted this long after the 70s and early 80s. As I see it, Pontiac was clinging to their successful times and not providing themselves with enough forward-thinking to attract enough new consumers. Innovations seemed to have tapered off at the same time things like HUD and supercharged GTPs came out. From there, IMHO, the only thing left was image. I'm not sure how anything can survive with this alone; especially when its been watered down by blatant rebadge non-engineering.

It is quite sad, truly. There was enough of a legacy to work with after dramatic changes could have been made; perhaps only to have been executed in better times. The sub-35 age group I have talked to about Pontiac have only the present and the past (up to the early 80s) to speak about. They have nothing overwhelmingly positive to say about the products Pontiac has offered during those times; however, all of the people I speak with over the age of 35 have a connection in some way that merely refer to the 60s and 70s as the glory years. The leapfrog in years between then and now is WAY to long to provide enough consumers with a solid impression of the division's image and direction. Some of these people were in the sit-and-wait mode for Pontiac to produce anything that would take them back to the glory days. I say, these people would have been better off moving to Cuba to enjoy the good-ol' chrome of old Pontiac... despite the lack of muscle cars, I suppose.

Pontiac clearly lost their way and GM was reading their map upside down.

But then there are younger people like me, that have been around all generations of Pontiacs, Chevys, Fords, Chryslers, and realize the mid 70s through middle to the end of the 90s were dark years for ALL cars, not just Pontiacs. I can count on one hand the cars from 75-95 I would like to own, and that includes ALL car makers. I can't fault Pontiac for something when I see that all car makers made nothing I wanted for about 20 years. Where GM made their mistake, was the late 90s and 2000s, when they had the technology to make exciting cars for Pontiac again, but refused to. The Grand Prix GTP had 240hp in 1997, and only 260 ten years later, until the GXP was released. GM just set the brand aside for 10 years, and focused on Olds, then Cadillac, then Saturn and now Chevy and Buick. If I didn't know how incompetant GM is, I would have said GM was purposely trying to kill any goodwill Pontiac had so they could eventually kill the brand.

[Camino LS6]

I'm surprised by this thinking. Some can't believe it, while others can't understand why they lasted this long after the 70s and early 80s. As I see it, Pontiac was clinging to their successful times and not providing themselves with enough forward-thinking to attract enough new consumers. Innovations seemed to have tapered off at the same time things like HUD and supercharged GTPs came out. From there, IMHO, the only thing left was image. I'm not sure how anything can survive with this alone; especially when its been watered down by blatant rebadge non-engineering.

It is quite sad, truly. There was enough of a legacy to work with after dramatic changes could have been made; perhaps only to have been executed in better times. The sub-35 age group I have talked to about Pontiac have only the present and the past (up to the early 80s) to speak about. They have nothing overwhelmingly positive to say about the products Pontiac has offered during those times; however, all of the people I speak with over the age of 35 have a connection in some way that merely refer to the 60s and 70s as the glory years. The leapfrog in years between then and now is WAY to long to provide enough consumers with a solid impression of the division's image and direction. Some of these people were in the sit-and-wait mode for Pontiac to produce anything that would take them back to the glory days. I say, these people would have been better off moving to Cuba to enjoy the good-ol' chrome of old Pontiac... despite the lack of muscle cars, I suppose.

Pontiac clearly lost their way and GM was reading their map upside down.

I think you have missed a significant slice of the story if this is your complete impression.