I rode in a brand new Corolla XLE yesterday

[Intrepidation]

When will the US be getting it? 2010 or 2011?

I would have to look it up, but I would bet closer to 2011, since it's still under development and they have to retool the truck plants.

[Camino LS6]

Ford confirmed the next gen Focus would be global, so yes we are finally getting it.

As long as they keep the Fiesta looking and handling exactly liek teh Euro Fiesta, a 5 door is my feature parked next to my future Challenger R/T.

But oh wait! I ant a small car! I must be STOOPEED

Oh come on, DF!

You know better than that!

Among cars in its class, the Corolla is a lousy choice.

[Camino LS6]

If FOG had inserted G5 for Corolla in his post, a bunch of you would be jumping on him for hating on Pontiacs and being anti-GM.

That's BS and you know it.

[Satty]

When will the US be getting it? 2010 or 2011?

Fiesta 2010 as a 2011 model, Focus 2011 as a 2012 I believe.

[Intrepidation]

With the Intrepid (+ another 60k) under a cover in the garage I hope

I wouldn't mind a Euro-Focus Cabrio either.

Oh dude, I'll have possibly 2 Shadows, Prizm, the Intrepid, a 300M, a 300ZX twin turbo, and hopefully a `71 Satellite Sebring in addition to the new cars I want. :wink:

I'm gonna need a BIG garage.

[Robert Hall]

Blind, stupid, uninformed...

Describe as you will, the end result is the same.

You decide to buy a Corollla - you get what you deserve.

Given Toyota's resale values, reliability, and reputation, driving a Corolla is a very intelligent choice for their buyers. Such it is. Dull car, but a sensible choice for millions. It's not what I would buy, but I certainly understand the choice.

Edited April 26, 2009 by moltar

[ocnblu]

Some people are forgetting that this is a GM site.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Assess the relative 'value' of our currency or the prevailing currency wherever you're living.

In its essence it remains a means to an end. Has an abstract value based upon prevailing factors.

Sometimes it is plentiful and at other times scarce.

Then consider the fluctuating value against the backdrop of everything in-play across the globe today.

Hard to nail the relative value of anything.

Very True. In the interests of full disclosure

Canadian Dollar = 0.8 USD, Canadian Inflation Rate= 1.1-1.2 %, prevailing interest rates slightly higher than in the United States, unemployment just under 6% where I live... Case study in my post is a 50-60K CDN$ Cadillac DTS that depreciates bigtime...

[Intrepidation]

Oh come on, DF!

You know better than that!

Among cars in its class, the Corolla is a lousy choice.

It's the broad generalization you made that has me so irked, especially since you know we have a GM copy of one.

It's not a lousy choice is you want reliable transportation and don't want or need a sporty car. The Cobalt (save for the SS) is aimed at the very same audience, but it certainly doesn't do a better job from an objective standpoint.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Fiesta 2010 as a 2011 model, Focus 2011 as a 2012 I believe.

Sounds about right...

[Camino LS6]

It's the broad generalization you made that has me so irked, especially since you know we have a GM copy of one.

It's not a lousy choice is you want reliable transportation and don't want or need a sporty car. The Cobalt (save for the SS) is aimed at the very same audience, but it certainly doesn't do a better job from an objective standpoint.

Your car is irrelevent completely to my statements in this thread.

[Daryl Z71]

Given Toyota's resale values, reliability, and reputation, driving a Corolla is a very intelligent choice for their buyers. Such it is. Dull car, but a sensible choice for millions. It's not what I would buy, but I certainly understand the choice.

I don't get why the resale value is so good. Its a throw away car. Drive it, save gas, trade it. I mean its not worth fixing IMO like say a pickup truck is. You could fix it all up after it is worn out, but what can you do with it? Drive it, haul people save gas? Again IMO when it comes to MOST cars it's just better to pick up a new one.

[Camino LS6]

Some people are forgetting that this is a GM site.

That happened a long while ago, I'm afraid.

[Robert Hall]

I don't get why the resale value is so good. Its a throw away car. Drive it, save gas, trade it. I mean its not worth fixing IMO like say a pickup truck is. You could fix it all up after it is worn out, but what can you do with it? Drive it, haul people save gas? Again IMO when it comes to MOST cars it's just better to pick up a new one.

That's the point of having a good resale value..drive it 5 years, trade it in... no 'fix up' involved.

[Robert Hall]

Fiesta 2010 as a 2011 model, Focus 2011 as a 2012 I believe.

I've read that in Europe the NG Focus is due for MY 11, and most likely will be going back to the 'Escort' name, which is pretty cool. So we will probably see it in MY 12.

[Daryl Z71]

That's the point of having a good resale value..drive it 5 years, trade it in... no 'fix up' involved.

Thats why its called a Throw-Away car. Nobody keeps them they just drive em and trade em. lol Nobody knows how reliable they are after say 10 years because no one keeps them that long.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Daryl 83

[Intrepidation]

I'd rather it stay Focus personally.

[Camino LS6]

That's the point of having a good resale value..drive it 5 years, trade it in... no 'fix up' involved.

Could you tolerate a Corolla for five years?

And resale is sliding for Toyota these days...

Worth that gamble to you?

Resale aside, you can get better for your money.

[longtooth]

Very True. In the interests of full disclosure

Canadian Dollar = 0.8 USD, Canadian Inflation Rate= 1.1-1.2 %, prevailing interest rates slightly higher than in the United States, unemployment just under 6% where I live... Case study in my post is a 50-60K CDN$ Cadillac DTS that depreciates bigtime...

Great example, the DTS.

Great car, imo, last of the old-time luxo-boats and a two year old car goes for half-off original sticker.

The dealers and private sellers here in Jersey seek to broker these cars fairly effectively stepping the price down in lock-step.

Harder and harder to locate a Seville STS that has less than 80k on the odometer.

[Robert Hall]

Could you tolerate a Corolla for five years?

No, but then again, I couldn't tolerate any FWD appliance for more than a couple days, let alone 5 years. But the mainstream are content with them.

[Satty]

No, but then again, I couldn't tolerate any FWD appliance for more than a couple days, let alone 5 years. But the mainstream are content with them.

And companies are going to make far more money on people trading in after 4-5 years/60,000 miles than they do after selling a car and having the owner drive it for 290,000 miles.

[Camino LS6]

No, but then again, I couldn't tolerate any FWD appliance for more than a couple days, let alone 5 years. But the mainstream are content with them.

Right.

And as it's been throughout history the masses are comparitively stupid, thus proving my point.

That's how we define intellect, by percentile.

[Camino LS6]

And companies are going to make far more money on people trading in after 4-5 years/60,000 miles than they do after selling a car and having the owner drive it for 290,000 miles.

In case you haven't noticed, that trend is reversing itself as we speak.

[Satty]

You mean new car sales are dropping during a worldwide recession? I'm shocked, never would have seen that coming. When the economy recovers, be that in 2 years or 10 years, the trend will reverse again.

[Robert Hall]

In case you haven't noticed, that trend is reversing itself as we speak.

True enough..I've had my Jeep almost 9 yrs and almost 100k miles (will probably hit that mark this summer, right around the 9th anniversary). Probably won't trade it, but will likely buy another daily driver within two years and keep the Jeep for winter driving.

[longtooth]

In case you haven't noticed, that trend is reversing itself as we speak.

NPR profiled this about 1 month ago.

Holding onto their cars people are.

Because we dismantled our economy and can't employ everyone.

Maybe the mechanically inclined.

[Intrepidation]

Right.

And as it's been throughout history the masses are comparitively stupid, thus proving my point.

That's how we define intellect, by percentile.

This is flawed logic.

Of course there are better cars to choose from, and there are also worse cars, and some of those worse cars GM sells right now. So are people stupid for buying them?

I'm going by objectivity, not subjectivity, as has been my stance for the whole thread.

[Satty]

Local news stations have been running stories about local mechanics who have been making a killing over the last year. Right now would probably be a good time to own stock in Autozone or O'Reilly.

[Camino LS6]

You mean new car sales are dropping during a worldwide recession? I'm shocked, never would have seen that coming. When the economy recovers, be that in 2 years or 10 years, the trend will reverse again.

Huge difference between 2 years and 10 years...

Even more importantly, I don't see sales ever recovering to pre-recession levels.

For better or for worse (that's a whole new debate), we are moving away from private car ownership in this society.

The times we live in are the genesis of major systemic change, much of which I suspect most of us will dislike.

[Camino LS6]

This is flawed logic.

Of course there are better cars to choose from, and there are also worse cars, and some of those worse cars GM sells right now. So are people stupid for buying them?

I'm going by objectivity, not subjectivity, as has been my stance for the whole thread.

Perspective: Aveo buyers are just as stupid.

[Intrepidation]

Perspective: Aveo buyers are just as stupid.

Well the Aveo is worse than the Cobalt in pretty much every way.

Now if you said Echo buyers are stupid, I would agree with you wholeheartedly.

[Robert Hall]

Well the Aveo is worse than the Cobalt in pretty much every way.

Now if you said Echo buyers are stupid, I would agree with you wholeheartedly.

What about Yaris fans, though? Or Scionities?

[Drew Dowdell]

It's the broad generalization you made that has me so irked, especially since you know we have a GM copy of one.

It's not a lousy choice is you want reliable transportation and don't want or need a sporty car. The Cobalt (save for the SS) is aimed at the very same audience, but it certainly doesn't do a better job from an objective standpoint.

Not that I'm going to stick up for an obviously grumpy Camino, but I have to agree with his point. The Corolla is not, and never has been, all that it's made out to be. Even as far back as 2000 you could get a superior handling, larger, more powerful, Ford Focus. The Civic has been a superior car to the Corolla in nearly every way for as long as I can remember.

[Camino LS6]

Well the Aveo is worse than the Cobalt in pretty much every way.

Now if you said Echo buyers are stupid, I would agree with you wholeheartedly.

OK, Echo buyers are stupid. :AH-HA_wink:

[longtooth]

What about Yaris fans, though? Or Scionities?

My opinion: (which matters not in the least) The Yaris is at least visually appealing. Standard issue of post teen female drivers. Like Marlboro Lights.

[Camino LS6]

Not that I'm going to stick up for an obviously grumpy Camino, but I have to agree with his point. The Corolla is not, and never has been, all that it's made out to be. Even as far back as 2000 you could get a superior handling, larger, more powerful, Ford Focus. The Civic has been a superior car to the Corolla in nearly every way for as long as I can remember.

OK, I'll cop to grumpy.

Can you blame me?

But yes, you get my meaning quite clearly.

[longtooth]

OK, I'll cop to grumpy.

Can you blame me?

But yes, you get my meaning quite clearly.

.

[Drew Dowdell]

You mean new car sales are dropping during a worldwide recession? I'm shocked, never would have seen that coming. When the economy recovers, be that in 2 years or 10 years, the trend will reverse again.

Don't bet on it reversing in the next 10-15 years. The credit market is gone. People are reluctant to get into new debt and will be for some time. Many people can't get into new debt because their credit rating has been crushed by this depression. Unless there is a scoring change soon, that $h! is going to hang around on people's credit reports for 7 years. The "Buy here! Pay here!" lots should do well.

This is a reset on attitudes not seen in decades. We'll have another 1955 - 1968 style car renaissance again.... starting in 2025.

[Camino LS6]

Don't bet on it reversing in the next 10-15 years. The credit market is gone. People are reluctant to get into new debt and will be for some time. Many people can't get into new debt because their credit rating has been crushed by this depression. Unless there is a scoring change soon, that $h! is going to hang around on people's credit reports for 7 years. The "Buy here! Pay here!" lots should do well.

This is a reset on attitudes not seen in decades. We'll have another 1955 - 1968 style car renaissance again.... starting in 2025.

Which is too late for me to give a crap.

[Daryl Z71]

Don't bet on it reversing in the next 10-15 years. The credit market is gone. People are reluctant to get into new debt and will be for some time. Many people can't get into new debt because their credit rating has been crushed by this depression. Unless there is a scoring change soon, that $h! is going to hang around on people's credit reports for 7 years. The "Buy here! Pay here!" lots should do well.

This is a reset on attitudes not seen in decades. We'll have another 1955 - 1968 style car renaissance again.... starting in 2025.

Yep I bought an 09 Silverado and I will guarntee you that is the LAST new car I will be buying for a LONG time.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Well there's a surprise, FOG doesn't like a Corolla.

Yes, but....

Given that Toyota is apparently the second coming of god (and to maybe have some personal confimration/closure on this whole Toyota is god deal) I was willing to give it a fighting chance.

But hell, I couldn't find ONE GOOD THING.

I mean, my Focus is basic, simple transportation. But damn, at least it has personality.

I haven't remotely liked them since the `93 -`97 model, and even then I prefer the Prizm (except for a few functional aspects).

The masses buy them because the Corolla has long been the stalwart of cheap, practical, economical, and reliable. And hey, you put it up against what the Domestics had to offer up until recently and it was 100% accurate. It earned the reputation and won't soon loose it.

I'm not so sure about that... My hatred of the GF's Cavi has been well documented here. But I wouldn't hesitate to throw her 2002 Cavi up against this new Corolla for an unbiased person. Obviously, the Corolla is a nicer car (because it's not 7 years old) but overall they share the same tasteless, bland, hard plastic characteristics.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

What does that make people who support American workers by buying Canadian-built CUVs with Chinese-made engines?

And the current Corolla is an ok vehicle, better than the Cobalt, thats for damn sure.

Ya think?

I mean, the Cobalt is only... what? 4 years old now?

Even still,

It isn't really markedly better. (and trust me, unless it's a Cobalt SS, I am NO Cobalt fan)

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I don't personally like the current Corolla...it looks like a melted version of the last gen, which looks like a bloated version of the gen before that.

I just really despise how people think that because you own a type of car you're a lesser person.

Not everyone wants 68973421325324.6 horsepower from 98 cylinders and a 2 speed manual, 6 frames under the body and with no pillars.

Or maybe they have one already and just want a daily driver?

Psssssht....you're wasting too much time in the "real world" where people spend 45 minutes a day at stop lights and another 20 minutes a day traveling at under 30mph.

Listen guys,

I didn't say sh*t about who owns what. I simply posted my opinion on the Corolla. No need to police the thread for people who have "the wrong mindset" (READ: are different than you)

If FOG had inserted G5 for Corolla in his post, a bunch of you would be jumping on him for hating on Pontiacs and being anti-GM.

I'm sure I would've shared almost the same disdain for the G5 (Almost because the badge DOES count for something ) But what really irks me about the Corolla is the perception that it enjoys.

I mean, if it were a Mazda 3 (new face aside) or a VW or even a Civic, I think the good perception would be earned.

Edited April 26, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

So yeah, it certainly earned a reputation for being a better car...now the Domestics have to work through years of that to be seen by average people as being quality cars. The problem is what they offer doesn't even match that yet. The Cobalt is better in SS for, but what about the regular models? There's the ugly Focus, and Dodge doesn't even have a small sedan. Let's not even get started on the trying to beat the Civic. They are funky but excellent, quality small cars.

I wouldn't go that far... I think my generation of Focus made HUGE steps in a positive direction with small car buyers. However Ford, in it's ignorance, decided to let the car rot. So now we have the current lackluster model.

This is a reset on attitudes not seen in decades. We'll have another 1955 - 1968 style car renaissance again.... starting in 2025.

{tin foil hat} Maybe that was the plan all along... To avert global warfare over fossil fuels. By 2025 we should all be driving electric cars and farting glitter {/tin foil hat}

Edited April 26, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[K.C.]

Which is too late for me to give a crap.

Camino, I hate to say it, but when things effect your emotions, when it makes you cuss, it shows you give a crap.

[Camino LS6]

Camino, I hate to say it, but when things effect your emotions, when it makes you cuss, it shows you give a crap.

Oh I give a crap now, but by 2025 I doubt that I will.

The point being, I've been cheated out of the good stuff for a long time now - and it looks like I'll be too old to notice when/if it ever comes back.

[Daryl Z71]

Oh I give a crap now, but by 2025 I doubt that I will.

The point being, I've been cheated out of the good stuff for a long time now - and it looks like I'll be too old to notice when/if it ever comes back.

Will anybody care by then. Hell by that time the Chinese might own us!

[K.C.]

I really don't think the decision to not sell the G8 ST or whatever else is personal Camino.

[Daryl Z71]

I really don't think the decision to not sell the G8 ST or whatever else is personal Camino.

True, but I think Camino is just tired of GM pussing out all of the time espically when it was something he was really looking forward to getting and GM just decided to can it without even bothering to think of their customers.

[Camino LS6]

True, but I think Camino is just tired of GM pussing out all of the time espically when it was something he was really looking forward to getting and GM just decided to can it without even bothering to think of their customers.

All of my adult life they have been cancelling/not following through on anything I'd want.

I bought the last year of El Camino while I still could.

I bought the last year of Firebird while I still could.

I managed to get a GTO before it was killed.

Those were little victories for me in a sea of disappointment with GM.

There is just nothing left for me to buy from GM now.