Buick's Popularity

[zoomtm]

if you look at the forum posts; the buick section is second, behind chevy. :CG_all: Edited November 19, 2005 by zoomtm

[Bimmer325]

:blink: How the hell?

[Flybrian]

Only if you don't include Chevy Trucks. Kinda like how Ford division is #1 and how Toyota Motor Corp is best quality.

[bobo]

The Buick fans on this site seem to be the most fiercely loyal and perhaps fanatical.

[razoredge]

The Buick fans on this site seem to be the most fiercely loyal and perhaps fanatical.

[post="45180"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

and I dont even come here much because theres like 2 four door cars and no forced induction, nothing really inspireing. Not downing the Lacrosse or Lucerne their just not real stimulating to keep me comming around to see whats up. Pictures of Lucerne ? So what, we saw them nearly a year ago. Now its winter :unsure: Does anyone know what Im talking about ? I mean Im interested but not captured ? I havent been for years anyhow. The last Riv was exciting, the new cars are but at the same time they are just cars. i dont know ? I suppose if I owned one Id be lovin it.

Maybe its because Im getting more back into sportscars again than luxury cars.

Please let this Lucerne be a smash hit. Buick needs the revenue !

[Cananopie]

  The Buick fans on this site seem to be the most fiercely loyal and perhaps fanatical.

Despite its troubles, Buick owners still connect with the brand.

"They have one of the highest loyalty ratings of all the brands in the industry," Mr. Libby said.

This is taken straight from the article I posted in the "Current" Buick section under the topic "Struggling to Appeal to Younger Buyers, Buick Pins its Future on Change"

[SoCalCTS]

There is just SO much wrong with Buick that it provokes intense discussion amongst the members of this site.

[HarleyEarl]

There is just SO much wrong with Buick that it provokes intense discussion amongst the members of this site.

[post="47932"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I have to agree with you on that. I think many here have a real affection for Buick, but the reality is, it's not where it should be. I want Buick to be great again. It isn't right now....and they better fast-track changes, because I fear it could go the way of Oldsmobile. I feal Buick and Pontiac are very vulnerable....GM could exist without them....it pains me to say that.

[zoomtm]

Aren't the plants where most buicks are built shutting down soon?

[ehaase]

Aren't the plants where most buicks are built shutting down soon?

[post="48015"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The plant that builds the Lucerne is staying open - for now.

[VenSeattle]

Aren't the plants where most buicks are built shutting down soon?

[post="48015"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

If I recall, the Lucerne's plant isn't closing. We already knew the Terraza and Rainier were history. The Enclave will be built in GM's all-new plant outside of Lansing. The next gen LaCrosse will be on Epsilon2 and built at a different location as well.

Plant closings aren't going to impact Buick's line-up.

[zoomtm]

so it will just be the lacrosse, lucerne, enclave, and possibly the velite.

[VenSeattle]

so it will just be the lacrosse, lucerne, enclave, and possibly the velite.

[post="48034"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

(At the moment) How Buick's line-up will transform and become a thoroughly modern range of premium/luxury vehicles:

Current 2006 line-up:
LaCrosse, Lucerne, Rendezvous, Terraza, & Rainier

2008 Line-up:
LaCrosse, Lucerne, Lambda-based Enclave Crossover debuts

2009 Line-up:
Epsilon2 (E2) LaCrosse debuts, Lucerne, & Enclave

Somewhere between 2010-2012:
E2 LaCrosse, Enclave, ET-based CUV (tentative), Possible RWD Zeta-based replacement for Lucerne & DTS(or it could still be FWD/AWD Chi-based considering older reports)

Buick's line-up will eventually be two cars and two crossovers.

[Cory Wolfe]

if you look at the forum posts; the buick section is second, behind chevy.

Yes, but the Lounge (my home) is way more popular... :P

Anyways, I guess there aren't enough of Pontiac fanatics like me around here... Figures...

[zoomtm]

Yes, but the Lounge (my home) is way more popular... :P

Anyways, I guess there aren't enough of Pontiac fanatics like me around here... Figures...

[post="48205"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

im in love with the current bonnie and grand prix i must say... :wub:

[buickguy]

I think many of us want Buick to return to its greatness, and we see it as a great brand mismanaged by GM. Look at all GM has to build on, those quality ratings. I have a Mercedes and a BMW but bought a Buick when I graduated from college in 1989. Problem is, now they don't make coupes or anything for young people. I want to buy a Buick but they need to build me something. Velite, anyone?

[Paolino]

Well, what concerns me is this: Buick seems to be turning things around with the Lucerne. It's a great car that could be awesome with a few tweaks (6-speed automatic, drop the 3800 as base engine, etc.) What worries me is that Buick put out a great car like this, now, which is good competition for cars that are out, now. But soon after, manufacturers will go way above and beyond expectations and put something out incredible. Where does this leave Buick (as well as all of GM--this just keeps happening over and over)? Why can't GM take the lead anymore? Seriously. I mean, I love the Lucerne, but in a year or two, will it be enough against competition?

[VenSeattle]

Well, just as the Infiniti G35 has a sedan and coupe, maybe the E2 LaCrosse & Zeta Lucerne replacement will have coupe (maybe even convertible) variants.

[VenSeattle]

Well, what concerns me is this:

Buick seems to be turning things around with the Lucerne.  It's a great car that could be awesome with a few tweaks (6-speed automatic, drop the 3800 as base engine, etc.)

What worries me is that Buick put out a great car like this, now, which is good competition for cars that are out, now.  But soon after, manufacturers will go way above and beyond expectations and put something out incredible.  Where does this leave Buick (as well as all of GM--this just keeps happening over and over)?

Why can't GM take the lead anymore?  Seriously.  I mean, I love the Lucerne, but in a year or two, will it be enough against competition?

[post="48229"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

This has always been the case, except it's no longer just between GM & Ford. It's just the nature of competition. "expectations" & definition of "incredible" are different for every consumer. That's why there are several vehicles in the same market.

As long as Buick can clearly position itself a tier above mainstream brands (Toyota, Honda, Chevrolet, Ford, & Dodge) Buick will be considered when those buyers decide to move up.

Most buyers can't afford or are not willing to pay for every feature, so features are just half the battle with the competiton. This is when Buick's distinctions need to win over buyers.

[Sixty8panther]

That's cause Buicks kick A$$!!!

[Sixty8panther]

Thanks GM1, I was in the middle of a Google search for a 71 Boattail when my computer finally $hit the bed. It's official.... will not restart. Even in safe mode. I'm on Marcia's work computer right now but she done's like me on C&G or other fun sites on her beige box since it's for work only. *sigh* I hate IBMs.

[Sixty8panther]

Here it is. Another gorgeous Tri-Shield. :)

[Paolino]

As long as Buick can clearly position itself a tier above mainstream brands (Toyota, Honda, Chevrolet, Ford, & Dodge) Buick will be considered when those buyers decide to move up.

[post="48576"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

See, this is what concerns me.

Yes, Buick should be above the afformentioned brands, however, it is not far enough above. And in my opinion, Chevy is below Toyota/Honda. So, it's almost as though the brands don't line up correctly. I mean, I guess Buick is supposed to be the Entry Lux territory, but I just find that it doesn't match up to other makes evenly.

This just all boils down to how GM is structured and how other manufacturers are structured. Example being, I'd compare a Lucerne to the Toyota Avalon or Lexus ES330--now that's Buick's top sedan. I would never compare Buick's top sedan to Lexus' top sedan. However, I would never compare Buick's cheapest sedan to Toyota's cheapest sedan. Just as I would compare an Accord EX-V6 to the LaCrosse CXS--but that's Honda's most-luxurious sedan (excluding the Acura brand) to Buick's lowest-end model (the souped-up low-end model). See what I'm saying?

I see this as a problem for GM and Buick--people will go to compare manufacturers to manufacturers rather than vehicle to vehicle.

[VenSeattle]

Well, Infiniti and Lexus don't have competitors to the Acura RSX or TSX. That's not a problem for Acura. And Infiniti and Acura really don't have a Lexus ES330 competitor either. Each brand defines their targeted entry level buyer and then builds a ladder from that starting point. In this case, you're as strong as your lowest/entry level vehicle.

Buick's ladder starts in Camry LE V6 & Honda LX V6 territory and goes up from there. This overlaps with Chevrolet's Malibu & Impala. BUT this allows Chevrolet to offer lower priced alternatives to the Camry/Accord for value conscious shoppers while also allowing the LaCrosse to provide a less expensive vehicle for style conscious shoppers to move into a premium brand.

The practice has worked for decades, but isn't anymore. GM needs to make Buick a tier above Chevrolet instead of overlapping Chevrolet. A Malibu/Impala owner should view Buick as a step up instead of being an alternative.

To accomplish this, Buick needs to be allowed to overlap Cadillac more. This won't be much of a problem since Cadillac's aspirations are moving even higher with the flagship sedan & V12 eventually coming. GM is too "bottom heavy" while remaining weak in the Luxury (image conscious) areas. In other words, GM has more room for luxury oriented vehicles than mainstream.

Hopefully BPG will be able to move up together and accomplish a solid transition to Premium/Luxury. It's possible that GMC & Pontiac will need to match Buick's warranty & customer service expectations to convince buyers that the "Professional Grade Trio" are on par with Lincoln-Mercury dealers across the street instead of Ford and Chevy dealers.

One thing is for sure, dealership ambiance needs to be consistently improved across the country to convince premium buyers that they're buying from a premium brand. Several BPG dealerships are still living in the 1950s or are carrying the 1990's sterile look of Pontiac's Gray/Red theme.

[bobo]

Buicks need interiors at least as nice as the current Cadillacs, and Cadillac needs to crank it up a notch.

[BuickEight]

One fine '59! :drool:

[post="48616"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Love the "59!!!!!!

[2b2]

Sixty8panther, you know these sites?
HubcapCafe
STILL one of the most beautiful cars EVER made.
R.O.A.
Ned Nickles' original drawing

[Paolino]

Buicks need interiors at least as nice as the current Cadillacs, and Cadillac needs to crank it up a notch.

[post="48685"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

YES.. I've been saying to myself, the STS interior would have been nice for the LaCrosse and the DTS interior would have been nice for the Lucerne (albeit, it's almost identical, but just still a little nicer). Caddy's interiors should be jaw-dropping and revolutionary--it should take an edge like their exteriors do.

[Paolino]

Well, Infiniti and Lexus don't have competitors to the Acura RSX or TSX. That's not a problem for Acura. And Infiniti and Acura really don't have a Lexus ES330 competitor either. Each brand defines their targeted entry level buyer and then builds a ladder from that starting point. In this case, you're as strong as your lowest/entry level vehicle.

Buick's ladder starts in Camry LE V6 & Honda LX V6 territory and goes up from there. This overlaps with Chevrolet's Malibu & Impala. BUT this allows Chevrolet to offer lower priced alternatives to the Camry/Accord for value conscious shoppers while also allowing the LaCrosse to provide a less expensive vehicle for style conscious shoppers to move into a premium brand.

The practice has worked for decades, but isn't anymore. GM needs to make Buick a tier above Chevrolet instead of overlapping Chevrolet. A Malibu/Impala owner should view Buick as a step up instead of being an alternative.

To accomplish this, Buick needs to be allowed to overlap Cadillac more. This won't be much of a problem since Cadillac's aspirations are moving even higher with the flagship sedan & V12 eventually coming. GM is too "bottom heavy" while remaining weak in the Luxury (image conscious) areas. In other words, GM has more room for luxury oriented vehicles than mainstream.

Hopefully BPG will be able to move up together and accomplish a solid transition to Premium/Luxury. It's possible that GMC & Pontiac will need to match Buick's warranty & customer service expectations to convince buyers that the "Professional Grade Trio" are on par with Lincoln-Mercury dealers across the street instead of Ford and Chevy dealers.

One thing is for sure, dealership ambiance needs to be consistently improved across the country to convince premium buyers that they're buying from a premium brand. Several BPG dealerships are still living in the 1950s or are carrying the 1990's sterile look of Pontiac's Gray/Red theme.

[post="48653"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I completely agree with you Ven... and for years I've been wondering why there was any need for overlap between brands. Just completely self-defeating at this point. I feel the LaCrosse should be priced JUST under the base ES330, but be an awesome competitor (would need a lot of tweaking under it's current look/build). The Lucerne, well, I'd love that to be an LS competitor, but it's just not that expensive, and the LS is just light-years ahead in luxury (reclining/heated/massaging rear seats, a coolbox in the rear armwrest, rear climate controls, etc.), and just think, in a year or two, the new LS will come out and put the current one to shame. The Lucerne more competes with the ES330, and the LaCrosse with Camry/Accord--but then again, the Impala is Camry/Accord territory--why have all this confusion and competition? When a person who's cross-shopping will look at the up-level accords and camrys' and will say, "Oh, this Impala isn't as refined inside." But then they might not look at the LaCrosse because it's hey, another dealer, another manufacturer.

[Tailfin61]

I will preface this post with: I AM GUILTY OF THIS TOO. What has to happen, if we don't want BUICK to go the way of OLDS is to BUY a BUICK! We all read the posts and letters on this forum and others of the CAMARO and FBIRD fans who moaned and complained when GM cancelled them . . . but they were all driving 10 yr old FBODIES . . . when was the last time they bought a new one? My parents are in their 70's and 3 yrs ago I lease an Accord for them. Well it's almost up and I'm trying to work a deal on a RDV for them. The added step in height is better for my dad, if that wasn't the case I'd try to get them in a LaX. My Accord lease is up next fall and I'm seriously considering the LaX CXS (Super?). At the dealer, the Lucerne was in the showroom, CXL V6, Ming Blue/Grey and it was sharp. Reminded me of big BUICKS from my youth (I'm 44), nice looking bodies with sporty wheels. BUICK needs to do their part and make continual improvements/refinements to the LaX and Lucerne. Unlike the Century/Regal that didn't change for 9 yrs. The RDV has been tweaked every yr and has remained successful and appealing. The interior on the new one is really nice especially with the wood wheel and trim.

[titan]

Buick's line-up will eventually be two cars and two crossovers.

[post="48150"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yeah, at the moment you're right on target. I'm hoping that that plan changes at some point to include what you described, plus a V8 only Flagship and a Velite/Halo car.

[titan]

I completely agree with you Ven... and for years I've been wondering why there was any need for overlap between brands.  Just completely self-defeating at this point.  I feel the LaCrosse should be priced JUST under the base ES330, but be an awesome competitor (would need a lot of tweaking under it's current look/build).  The Lucerne, well, I'd love that to be an LS competitor, but it's just not that expensive, and the LS is just light-years ahead in luxury (reclining/heated/massaging rear seats, a coolbox in the rear armwrest, rear climate controls, etc.), and just think, in a year or two, the new LS will come out and put the current one to shame.  The Lucerne more competes with the ES330, and the LaCrosse with Camry/Accord--but then again, the Impala is Camry/Accord territory--why have all this confusion and competition?  When a person who's cross-shopping will look at the up-level accords and camrys' and will say, "Oh, this Impala isn't as refined inside."  But then they might not look at the LaCrosse because it's hey, another dealer, another manufacturer.

[post="48733"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I can't comment to heavily on this, because whenever I do it takes an emontional toll on me. But basically, I agree with you and Ven... I've been saying it for years now. Instead of some crazy stepped ladder scheme for buick, it's lineup should closely match that of Lexus. Lacrosse should be a firm competitor to the ES, but be a bit less expensive and even more heavily contented, for that value edge. The same goes for Luceren and the GS/RL. The same goes for my phantom RWD V8 only Buick Flag competitor for the LS. Who cares if GM has a two cars competiting in the same lux class? It wouldn't be a problem if they're marketed right, and at two different ends of the ends of the lux spectrum. That would take pressure off another GM division vying for that sub-30K market. Now we'll seeing Saturn moving up, and we'll have the Aura crowding the upper 20K end of the market too. (Sigh), I'm exhausted now.

[Sixty8panther]

Sixty8panther, you know these sites?

[post="48704"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hubcap Cafe I've been familiar with for a while but R.O.A. I just fond out about a few months ago from my buddy with a '96 Riviera.

It's white diamond pearl with chrome turbines & homelink but no sunroof... go figure.

He calls it the "Egg". :P


(and he's obsessed with 71 & 72 Boat Tails, no surprise)


we're currently in kind of a Gentleman's Pissing contest to see who gets his dream car first.

In my case it's any '59 Buick hardtop.... in his it's a 71/72 Riviera. If I can sell my Camaro on eBay in the spring for like $3,000 with no motor then I'm in business!!! '59 Buick here I come. Edited November 26, 2005 by Sixty8panther