GM ready to let Opel go for free?

[Intrepidation]

General Motors wants out of Opel, and according to new reports, it is willing to let the German automaker go without receiving any money for it. The only requirement is that the buyer must inject €500 million (around $652M USD) into Opel for operations. While GM CEO Fritz Henderson has said there are six serious investors in discussions for Opel, and that a deal should be done by early May, the fact that GM has said "if you pay the bills you can have it" indicates that GM is ready to work with anyone who's willing to sign.

Making a deal would not only free GM of Opel's current burdens, but the obligations it would have if Opel shuts down under its watch. Another outlet is reporting that Opel sold a range of technologies to GM in 2005 for which it's still owed hundreds of millions of dollars. If GM returned the patents (currently held by the U.S. government), then GM could lower its debt load and Opel would get an asset with which it could secure alternate financing.

Autoblog

[Camino LS6]

Seeya, Opel... don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[z28luvr01]

Pretty strong statement, since they claim to have offers that actually involve money for Saab, Saturn, and Hummer.

[enzl]

Seeya, Opel... don't let the door hit you on the way out.

If only PCS were still there, they might get a couple hundy more for it

[longtooth]

This scenario calls to mind the story: "The Ransom of Red Chief", by O. Henry.

[Daryl Z71]

Seeya, Opel... don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Agreed.

[Drew Dowdell]

definitely a case of you get what you pay for.

[Intrepidation]

I think of it more as turnabout is fair play.

[aaaantoine]

Hang on, I think I missed the part where Opel totally screwed over GM and I'm wondering why everyone now hates them.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

As much as I hate Opel I don't think this is a wise move. Without Opel global GM is dead.

[Camino LS6]

GM has never really gotten to a true "global" level anyway, and Opel is a boat anchor.

[z28luvr01]

As much as I hate Opel I don't think this is a wise move. Without Opel global GM is dead.

Not really...the biggest reason for GME's "turnaround" was not Opel, but GMDAT-sourced Chevies.

[Intrepidation]

GM has never really gotten to a true "global" level anyway, and Opel is a boat anchor.

Not entirely.

Wasn't GME behind the suspension tuning of the revised Cobalt SS? Also the Insignia looks to be a real winner.

The problem Isn't Opel per say, but people throughout the company in high positions that try yo make whatever brand they're in charge or more important. Instead of trying to kill other brands, they should be working together and using each division's strengths to benefit the company as a whole.

[Camino LS6]

Not entirely.

Wasn't GME behind the suspension tuning of the revised Cobalt SS? Also the Insignia looks to be a real winner.

The problem Isn't Opel per say, but people throughout the company in high positions that try yo make whatever brand they're in charge or more important. Instead of trying to kill other brands, they should be working together and using each division's strengths to benefit the company as a whole.

One of the main reasons why I call it a boat anchor, with the other being it is way too tied up in German national pride to really act like part of GM.

Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say.

[deftonesfan867]

Wont see me crying.

[Drew Dowdell]

Hang on, I think I missed the part where Opel totally screwed over GM and I'm wondering why everyone now hates them.

It's the attitude that they are so much better than GMNA or Holden or GMDAT. Up until very recently Opel has been an also ran in Europe with about as much brand cache as Skoda. They come up with the Vectra(epsilon) and the Astra and BAM they think they are gods gift to GM. Supposedly we are to forget about stuff like the Omega(Catera) and old Vectra(Saturn LS) and Kadett (Chevette). We're supposed to turn away from excellent platforms from Holden for no reasons Opel cares to explain. We're supposed to fawn over the Insignia, which I'll admit is a very nice car, but it's no Lacrosse.

[gm4life]

I don't like Opel trust me, but what about all the great platforms Ep I, Ep II and all the great things we get from GME. Like the new Malibu in such, I could care less about Opel but don't want to loose all the good technology along with it. I guess my fear is and someone please chime in is GM will loose lots of innovative things that came from Opel and have an even harder time trying to keep up with Japan Inc, (I am speaking only of volume FWD'ers). So Camino, DF and any of you that understand it better than me will it really hurt them? Hurt there volume FWD products the Malibu, LaX, G6 etc? And the up coming Chevy Cruze? Personally I think Opel gone is great, but good things for GMNA have come from Opel... So it is good or bad?

Edited April 23, 2009 by gm4life

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

So uh... since I'm kinda out of work... you guys think we could raise 652 million and buy Opel ourselves?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Not entirely.

Wasn't GME behind the suspension tuning of the revised Cobalt SS? Also the Insignia looks to be a real winner.

The problem Isn't Opel per say, but people throughout the company in high positions that try yo make whatever brand they're in charge or more important. Instead of trying to kill other brands, they should be working together and using each division's strengths to benefit the company as a whole.

It's almost as if the "GM tribalism" was more present in GME than GMNA (Which might explain why it had it's meltdown and subsequent bailout a few years ago.

All politics aside, I'm just not excited about GM "giving up" that much presence across the globe. It can't be good and in this economy and as much as americans hate GM, the corporation must be global to survive.

I must admit though... It would be nice to see a lot of car development come back to the U.S. And it would be even nicer to see GM's 6 global brands (The NA 5 + Holden) sweep across the globe. I bet it would rally the troops here as well if GM did a "Made in America" campaign.

Edited April 23, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

It's the attitude that they are so much better than GMNA or Holden or GMDAT. Up until very recently Opel has been an also ran in Europe with about as much brand cache as Skoda.

They ARE STILL an also ran, for all intents and purposes...

The new product is excellent, but it's going to take time to gain traction (Just like with all of the "damaged" NA brands)

Not to mention, technically GME was the FIRST part of GM to meltdown. So the 'holier than thou' attitude is just ridiculous.

They come up with the Vectra(epsilon) and the Astra and BAM they think they are gods gift to GM. Supposedly we are to forget about stuff like the Omega(Catera) and old Vectra(Saturn LS) and Kadett (Chevette). We're supposed to turn away from excellent platforms from Holden for no reasons Opel cares to explain. We're supposed to fawn over the Insignia, which I'll admit is a very nice car, but it's no Lacrosse.

The Insignia is SOOO HOT!!!! (Back in 2002)

[G. David Felt]

Personally GM can return the Patents and keep the right to continue to use the technology in their cars for free. This is one of those issues of how they manuver the rights of use.

Over all I see nothing bad by letting them unload Opel to become a individual company and some new owner to deal with the Union Crap of Europe.

Then GM can focuse the higher quality platforms from Holden into their global franchise of high quality Auto's.

[gm4life]

I must admit though... It would be nice to see a lot of car development come back to the U.S. And it would be even nicer to see GM's 6 global brands (The NA 5 + Holden) sweep across the globe. I bet it would rally the troops here as well if GM did a "Made in America" campaign.

Yeah I would like the NA 5 + Holden idea, if this helps secure GM's future go ahead. Now Pontiac could actually get some Holdens! Hmm good could come of this...

[Drew Dowdell]

They ARE STILL an also ran, for all intents and purposes...

Not as much anymore... at least not in Europe. The Corsa, Astra and Vectra are fairly popular and if nothing else, well respected. However, ask a non-enthusiast German what they think of Opel and they'll tell you that the new ones are great but the old ones were terrible. Opel is/was pulling off a VW or Nissan style renessance over there..... pity it only really mattered in Western Europe.

The recent Opels we got here are fine as Opels but not great as Saturns. If you look at what they did with Saturn it's just Oldsmobile part zwei.

1. Change all the names (Cutlass Surpeme->Intrigue, Toronado/Ninety Eight->Aurora, Cutlass->Alero) v. (SL/SC -> Ion -> Astra, LS -> Aura)

2. Change the target market (Midmarket cushy cruisers to midmarket sportish cars) v. (basic, fuel efficient, dent free transportation -> SUVs, Roadsters, and mid-pack MPG sedans/hatches)

3. Attempt to move up market (Aurora and Intrigue trying to move into Infiniti and Lexus territory) v. (a brand that 10 years ago maxed out at $20k now only 1 vehicle bases under 20k, most base around 24k, two base above 27k and can be optioned up to around 40k)

[Drew Dowdell]

It's almost as if the "GM tribalism" was more present in GME than GMNA (Which might explain why it had it's meltdown and subsequent bailout a few years ago.

All politics aside, I'm just not excited about GM "giving up" that much presence across the globe. It can't be good and in this economy and as much as americans hate GM, the corporation must be global to survive.

I must admit though... It would be nice to see a lot of car development come back to the U.S. And it would be even nicer to see GM's 6 global brands (The NA 5 + Holden) sweep across the globe. I bet it would rally the troops here as well if GM did a "Made in America" campaign.

GM isn't really giving up presence... they are just shedding redundant brands :AH-HA_wink: Chevy is growing rather well in Europe.

[vonVeezelsnider]

1$, Bob!

[daves87rs]

Giving it away? Good luck!

[daves87rs]

GM isn't really giving up presence... they are just shedding redundant brands :AH-HA_wink: Chevy is growing rather well in Europe.

Not for long......

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

GM isn't really giving up presence... they are just shedding redundant brands :AH-HA_wink: Chevy is growing rather well in Europe.

Until bankruptcy...

Not for long......

Beat me to it...

Edited April 23, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[MyerShift]

Well, recent products viewed, it seems that only Cadillac, Opel, and Holden have made anything worthwhile that have had architectures shared with other brands.

Sigma, Delta, Epsilon, and Zeta.

Sure, Kappa is fun, but a distraction and from what I gather, a Red Inker.

[CSpec]

Where's evok? I bet he's got a party hat on.

[Camino LS6]

The notion that GM can't develop quality architectures without Opel is absurd on the face of it. And, as already mentioned, any deal could see the rights to all current GME-developed architectures remain with GM.

GM doesn't need to build cars in the EU in order to sell them there, and the Russian plants aren't likely to be part of this deal. Nor would GMDAT, for that matter.

So I have to ask, what goood is Opel itself to GM at this point? Lots of baggage, and no real value they can't cover elsewhere. Let the Germans have it, maybe they can make it work.

[Drew Dowdell]

They've already done a bang up job with Chrysler.

[Camino LS6]

They've already done a bang up job with Chrysler.

Corporate crash testing?

I was thinking about this episode quite a bit when typing my responses in this thread.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I was told it was like Liberation day of Europe 1945 at Opel headquarters today. This is something all Opel workers have wanted for a long time. It's more to the point of saying Opel wanted to be free of GM, more than GM wants to be free of Opel. GM will have to give all Opel patents back to Opel, how sweet is that?

Now for the next phase, when Opel becomes free of GM 3 possibilities exist:

1. A merger with Fiat.

2. A merger with BMW.

3. Opel waits until Holden and Daewoo are also free, since all of GM's children will have to be set free, and then they all merge into a new car company.

I'm told the German government favors number 2 the most, then number 1, and finally number 3.

Time will tell, but the GM Empire is coming apart at the seams ...

[Camino LS6]

So be it, I just hope they don't get their filthy mitts on Holden.

[Gnitro]

OK, whatever. A few weeks ago it was said that HSV would expand. Then we heard that some Opels would be sold as Buicks in the US. Now we are hearing Pontiac is dead and Opel will be given away. Global brands will wind up being Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and hopefully if we are lucky they might sell some HSV models in the US to make up for killing Pontiac.

[Camino LS6]

Nothing will "make up" for killing Pontiac.

[Gnitro]

Well obviously nothing will make up for killing Pontiac, I just meant maybe it would still be possible to get performance vehicles other than SS's.

[SoCalCTS]

I say they pur all of tGM's retirement obligations/healthcare expenses and Opel in one package and sell it all for $1 to a sovereign wealth fund.

[Chazman]

I was told it was like Liberation day of Europe 1945 at Opel headquarters today. This is something all Opel workers have wanted for a long time. It's more to the point of saying Opel wanted to be free of GM, more than GM wants to be free of Opel. GM will have to give all Opel patents back to Opel, how sweet is that?

Now for the next phase, when Opel becomes free of GM 3 possibilities exist:

1. A merger with Fiat.

2. A merger with BMW.

3. Opel waits until Holden and Daewoo are also free, since all of GM's children will have to be set free, and then they all merge into a new car company.

I'm told the German government favors number 2 the most, then number 1, and finally number 3.

Time will tell, but the GM Empire is coming apart at the seams ...

I don't know why your celebrating PCS. As screwed up as GM has been - and is - I don't see Opel doing any better alone. Or even with a new partner/owner.

1) Fiat. It's in no great shape itself. Plus it has alot of overlap with Opel. I can see them shutting much of Opel down if they controlled it. And be on the verge of a financial crisis almost immediately and well into the future.

2) BMW. Do you really think the Quandts want that headache?

3) Opel/Daewoo/Holden. I don't know, I could see that working for Holden, maybe Daewoo, but Opel would still be in a predicament.

I don't want to get into an argument or anything, but I just don't see your optimism here...

Edited April 24, 2009 by Chazman

[enzl]

I don't know why your celebrating PCS. As screwed up as GM has been - and is - I don't see Opel doing any better alone. Or even with a new partner/owner.

1) Fiat. It's in no great shape itself. Plus it has alot of overlap with Opel. I can see them shutting much of Opel down if they controlled it. And be on the verge of a financial crisis almost immediately and well into the future.

2) BMW. Do you really think the Quandts want that headache?

3) Opel/Daewoo/Holden. I don't know, I could see that working for Holden, maybe Daewoo, but Opel would still be in a predicament.

I don't want to get into an argument or anything, but I just don't see your optimism here...

You're 100% right.

Mark it down: Opel will be thrown to the wolves and, at best, be a bit player in Europe and non-existent elsewhere if cut loose by GM. Fiat will bend 'em over and BMW will have an German-accented Rover on their hands in short order---as for linking up with other GM international orphans--who's going to pay the freight on that one? Only GMDAT is a true money-making venture in that grouping---and they're not going to promote German Unionized work over Korean labor.

Opel will in no way be better off in 1 year than they are today.

[Chazman]

Opel will in no way be better off in 1 year than they are today.

Yup, not a chance. Opel simply cannot survive on it's own. And if another European brand buys it, it will be raped and decapitated.

If I were running Opel, I'd be doing less celebrating and more thoughtful praying.

[Satty]

Buy Saturn, get Opel free? That would be a way for someone to get some cars and a large, globalish dealer network without too much work. Lets say Chery gives GM a few hundred million for Saturn, if GM throws Opel in with it and if they can continue to sell the current product line. Saturn and Opel could continue to tread water while Chery tries to get their Chinese designed and made vehicles into the U.S. and Europe using somewhat established nameplates.

[saturnd00d]

Though I dont have the knowledge of GM's internal workings, I think Opel can survive alot better seperate from GM than part of them. Alot of the reason that Opel's sales werent very good until the last few years was because of GM's negative perception worldwide, not unlike NA.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Though I dont have the knowledge of GM's internal workings, I think Opel can survive alot better seperate from GM than part of them. Alot of the reason that Opel's sales werent very good until the last few years was because of GM's negative perception worldwide, not unlike NA.

If you listen to PCS, GME has been running the show. They will now just be running a smaller show. That wont make the show better.

Edited April 24, 2009 by CaddyXLR-V

[cire]

This worries me in as far as what will happen to Buick. The future wave of Opels (starting with the Insignia) was supposed to come to the U.S. to expand Buick's lineup. Slightly modified North American built rebadged next gen Opels would have made Buick one cool and exciting premium brand here in the U.S. Now what? I'm really starting to think GM's future in North America will not include B-P-G. Without B-P-G and the possibilities this sales channel presented the corporation, GM just doesn't appear as exciting or desirable. B-P-G is what makes GM really unique.

[Z-06]

This worries me in as far as what will happen to Buick. The future wave of Opels (starting with the Insignia) was supposed to come to the U.S. to expand Buick's lineup. Slightly modified North American built rebadged next gen Opels would have made Buick one cool and exciting premium brand here in the U.S. Now what? I'm really starting to think GM's future in North America will not include B-P-G. Without B-P-G and the possibilities this sales channel presented the corporation, GM just doesn't appear as exciting or desirable. B-P-G is what makes GM really unique.

No worries Insignia is already there in Buick - albeit in China as the Regal. The only thing Buick will miss is the Astra clone. I personally think Buick should not get anything smaller than the Regal.

[Oracle of Delphi]

GM isn't really giving up presence... they are just shedding redundant brands :AH-HA_wink: Chevy is growing rather well in Europe.

Yes on Daewoo products they are growing, but what's GM going to do when Daewoo and Holden also leave GM? All GM's children will fly the nest soon enough, and GM will consist of just GMNA, good luck on that ...

[THTom]

It's the attitude that they are so much better than GMNA or Holden or GMDAT. Up until very recently Opel has been an also ran in Europe with about as much brand cache as Skoda. They come up with the Vectra(epsilon) and the Astra and BAM they think they are gods gift to GM. Supposedly we are to forget about stuff like the Omega(Catera) and old Vectra(Saturn LS) and Kadett (Chevette). We're supposed to turn away from excellent platforms from Holden for no reasons Opel cares to explain. We're supposed to fawn over the Insignia, which I'll admit is a very nice car, but it's no Lacrosse.

Doesn't Buick's survival depend on the Opel link-up?

The Insignia is SOOO HOT!!!! (Back in 2002)

What about the Astra? Meriva? Corsa, etc.?

The notion that GM can't develop quality architectures without Opel is absurd on the face of it. And, as already mentioned, any deal could see the rights to all current GME-developed architectures remain with GM.

GM doesn't need to build cars in the EU in order to sell them there, and the Russian plants aren't likely to be part of this deal. Nor would GMDAT, for that matter.

So I have to ask, what goood is Opel itself to GM at this point? Lots of baggage, and no real value they can't cover elsewhere. Let the Germans have it, maybe they can make it work.

OK, whatever. A few weeks ago it was said that HSV would expand. Then we heard that some Opels would be sold as Buicks in the US. Now we are hearing Pontiac is dead and Opel will be given away. Global brands will wind up being Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and hopefully if we are lucky they might sell some HSV models in the US to make up for killing Pontiac.

Opels/Vauxhall is currently one of Europe's top bread-and-butter brands

GM Europe is currently 3rd place behind VW and Ford.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f78/eur...ird-place-78101

Without Opel/Vauxhall, all of that falls apart.

GM isn't really giving up presence... they are just shedding redundant brands :AH-HA_wink: Chevy is growing rather well in Europe.

Chevy is growing off of Daewoo product. They're considered a step down from Kia in that market. With Opel gone, I doubt Chevy would ever be able to regain that much market share. Look at Cadillac's situation in Europe. Things are not going well at all.

[MRDETROITMETAL]

So uh... since I'm kinda out of work... you guys think we could raise 652 million and buy Opel ourselves?

^^ I am IN on THAT !!!....But let's move OPEL to Atlanta....& take on Panoz for most awesome American Car Company !!!...LOL.